[Nell]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Just like I would have no problem saying, "the Bible definitely includes belief that Jesus is Lord as a requirement for salvation" without needing to add qualifiers or IMOs, so also I have no problem saying, "When 2 Timothy 3 clearly describes men as 'opposing the truth' and 'disqualified from the faith' they are definitely not genuine believers" without needing to add qualifiers or IMOs.

Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

We generally read scripture and interpret passages according to our own understanding. What we are not qualified to do is to judge the hearts of men. This is my problem with your interpretation of 2 Timothy 3.

I have a belief that many in the Local Church leadership "oppose the truth", but I cannot say that they are definitely not genuine believers. What does "disqualified from the faith" really mean? Does it mean that someone is "definitely not a genuine believer"?

Inherent in your post seems to be the belief that I have NOT gotten confirmation from the Holy Spirit! Just playing a bit there but also that thought does seem to be present. I think there are some things that the Holy Spirit might say....."what are you waiting for confirmation about? The Bible couldn't be clearer about it! Stand firm on the Word of God!"

Well, have you? Have you gotten confirmation from the Holy Spirit regarding your interpretation of 2 Timothy 3?

I am not speaking with authority and to my recollection have never claimed to do so. The Bible has the authority and I just pointed to what it says. I examined the word before I said what I said. If I'm wrong, which is always possible, this is a discussions forum and anyone is welcome to make their "dissenting" case from the Bible. I won't have a problem if they don't include qualifiers or IMOs as they lay out their case.

"When 2 Timothy 3 clearly describes men as 'opposing the truth' and 'disqualified from the faith' they are definitely not genuine believers" without needing to add qualifiers or IMOs.

Statements like this take on some "authority" whether intentional or not; it implies, in my mind, that you do have confirmation of the Holy Spirit and takes on an implication of judgment of the hearts of men. Its a teaching.

I believe 2 Timothy 3 speaks for itself. The teaching: "They are definitely not genuine believers" is not part of the text. It's interpretation of the text. The phrases 'opposing the truth' and 'disqualified from the faith' are not as clear as they might seem.

I know. I'm teaching too. But you're right...this can be discussed.

That and this is waaaaaayyyy off topic.

Nell