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Originally Posted by I tell the truth
Thanks trapped,
Your common sense is very helpful. Ron shared last week in the conference that saints will take and enjoy the nice messages, but when it comes to the cross, flesh, natural man, right and wrong, sense of life and death that saints will reject and not hear it. Because it's not nice. Lee even said Christianity is devilish because they won't preach and accept the cross and therefore they're trapped in not decreasing and God increasing. And, that in the church there is only the cross where you're natural man needs to die and it has to be enjoyable and sweet to you along to God.
I use to accept all this because it sounded good that God wanted to replace all that you we're but then I started thinking.
I accepted it because I believed so many people were the problem in the world and not the expression of God. And that if I changed I could be part of God's move to end the age. Also be a overcomer, escape the 1000 year punishment. But then it really started getting to the extreme and somewhat silly. And almost every message is a warning of what will happen if you leave the way of the recovery or don't mature. Just too much to list.
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While I know the Bible speaks of "taking up your cross", and in Galatians Paul says "I am crucified with Christ"...I think the local church somehow multiplies this out into some kind of lifelong minute-after-minute existence of actively being crucified all the time in our daily life.
But it's like......wait a minute. I thought Christ went to the cross to take our place? I thought He went to the cross so we wouldn't have to? What is this thing about "living a life of the cross"? This seems to be like a "thanks Jesus for dying on the cross for me, but if you don't mind I'm gonna climb up on one too, you know, and just stay here my whole life" thing. There seems to be some disconnect.
When Jesus speaks of "taking up your cross and follow me", he said this to the disciples right after telling them that he would be mistreated, and then killed, and then raised 3 days later. Like, He's going to the actual cross and actually dying. Then, after He rebukes Peter for not setting his mind on the things of God, Jesus then turns to His disciples and tells them this - if any of them would come after Him, let them take up their cross and follow Him.
But "to take up a cross" back then meant only one thing - to carry your cross in order to be nailed to it and die upon it. It meant actual death. Not allegorical death or spiritual death. It wasn't some metaphorical burden or hardship they carried and bore. It did not mean "carry around a cross for your whole life" or "hang on the cross in every situation for the rest of your life". To be perfectly honest, I don't know exactly what I think it means. I mean, Jesus is speaking to His disciples specifically, not to the church as a whole. I don't know. But I do think the local church has shifted what it means in order to press a heavy psychological burden on the saints' everyday lives.
Also, for the record, "He must increase and I must decrease" was John the Baptist specifically speaking of the impact of his own ministry decreasing because Jesus had showed up on the scene. John was just pointing to the One coming, and once Jesus came, John was to step back. There isn't really anything, at least that I can see, in the Bible that says, "this is a metaphorical lesson that means each of us has to disappear and Christ has to take over." There is a weird thought in the local church that God only loves the Christ in us, and for us to remain accepted, somehow we have to exist as little as we can, and only Christ is the one God wants to see. But.......God made us. He actually made each of us individually. It makes no sense to make billions of varied human beings if all He wants to see is.....as little of those human beings as possible! We are being conformed to the image of the Son of God, but it doesn't mean that we, or who we are, somehow disappears. We are God's many sons, not God's one Son repeated in many bodies.
Remember, God loved us so much He sent His Son to die for us, which means God loved us before Christ was in us. Christ wasn't in us at that point. It was 100% us and 0% Christ in us at that point.....and God still loved us so much He sent His Son to the cross for us. To think that God then wants us to disappear is another silly local church thought that really downplays the love God has for us.
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Originally Posted by I tell the truth
The coworkers have repeated the story of someone who left the church for over 30 years. Brother Lee saw him in a Chinese restaurant after all those years. Lee concluded that the brother had not matured in life because he still loved Chinese food and was laughing and joking and not somber that he was going to die soon. I don't think God will disqlify him purely based on that.
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This is another example of the "ministry of condemnation" in the local church. On what biblical grounds does Lee conclude that someone who enjoys Chinese food and laughs and jokes is not "matured in life"? It's completely absurd. This is the kind of "human rules" that Jesus talked about regarding the legalistic Jews, etc.... They condemned others for not holding to their own restrictive traditions and rules, which were not actual requirements of the law. Witness Lee is applying his own "human rules" here to determine the spiritual maturity of a brother. But the characteristics he uses to make his determination have zero biblical basis whatsoever. Being sober-MINDED does not mean you are a serious, somber, grave, unsmiling, frowny Christian. I'm just shaking my head here as I type this. Honestly, as a church kid, no wonder I had such a hard time feeling so bad all the time!
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Originally Posted by I tell the truth
I wanted to add something that opened my eyes as well. The churches teaches that they're being transformed but are they being controlled by the teachings? A sister wanted to get married to a brother from the FTTA because there is pressure for brothers and sisters to get married by a certain age. The sister said she didn't even know if she liked the brother. But, then they go to a couples house for dinner and then the couple gets feedback. It's also a huge deal and a no go if one side won't take the way of the ministry completely.
Also, this talk of people outside the church wasting their life and saints no making every meeting wasting their life without a good excuse is mind boggling.
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The meddling of the local church into people's marriage and pre-marriage lives has caused much, much damage.......that's all I have the heart to say on that.
If you spend your life in all the meetings, then that is nothing more than hiding your light under a bushel. Zero positive impact on the world, which sorely needs the light to shine in it. Christians are a gathering people, yes, but it is undeniable that believers are supposed to be mixed in among those in the world, not gathered off the side in a non-descript hall sitting on golden chairs hearing the same old words from one man who's teachings weren't remotely biblical half the time......
Trapped