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Matt Anderson · 04-12-2022, 05:06 AM

The rapture - part 3 (last part)

In my last post, I took up one view of the rapture (Out of the Midst of Wrath). Here is how I see the other views (note: the 2nd most likely view is pre-wrath and I can see how it could fit scripture).

There are two main difficulties in accepting other views as reliable.
1. We are to be changed and caught up at the sound of the LAST TRUMPET (1 Cor 15:52). This seems like a definitive time marker which seems to conceptually and literally connect with the Seventh Trumpet in Revelation.
2. Jesus' "coming like a thief" is pronounced clearly, loudly and specifically between the 6th and 7th bowl in Revelation 16:15. Given the connection I see between "coming like a thief" and Jesus' Second Coming, I don't know how any other view can work.

Someone will have to convince me with some text from the Word that "coming like a thief" could happen twice and be a second event that happens earlier than Revelation 16:15.

Again, I do not preclude the power of God nor His ability to share some obscure references that I don't see in Scripture. I have seen some obscure references applied to Jesus' first coming in the New Testament.

Lastly, I don't want my current view to be correct. I really don't, but I see danger for all believers in holding a pre-tribulational rapture viewpoint too strongly. I feel that the pre-tribulational rapture view has lead to a great sleepiness and dullness in the broader church. Many listen to the End Times events with the general idea of "Oh, that is for those other people, I won't be here".

Personally, I have concluded that EVEN IF the pre-tribulational rapture of the whole church turns out to be what happens, it is still unsound doctrine at this time for believers. Teaching it as the ONLY POSSIBILITY to believers given the UNCERTAINTY in the Word of God is a great disservice to their maturing in Christ. It is scary to think about being in the Great Tribulation, but I know that times of fear in my life have led to some of the greatest times of maturing in the Lord. I have to learn how to process my fear and come to a place of faith and surety in Christ alone. This is a matter of my heart and learning to trust Him more fully in everything.

From my review of many current christian teachers, it seems that almost all of them are exclusively teaching pre-tribulational rapture as the only valid view. What happens when we begin to realize that the last 7 years have started or the last 3.5 years and the church is still present on the earth? Will this be part of what helps cause or increase a "great falling away" from the faith? Will the faith that congregants have placed in their teachers, pastors and/or leaders be destroyed? For all of those christians who have not set the anchor of their heart on Jesus Christ be lost at sea?

Even if you do not agree with my current view, consider what is healthy doctrine? Is it healthy to lock in on the pre-tribulational rapture as the ONLY possibility? If it is not, then consider the real possibility that the church could be here during the Great Tribulation and process through this in your heart with the Lord.

Yes, I know... A bit of preachiness at the end of this part about the rapture. I have been very concerned that the church is under massive deception on this topic and that almost the entire realm of well-known christian teachers are unknowingly collaborating with the Enemy to spread this deception. The deception I refer to is teach the pre-tribulational rapture as the ONLY legitimate possibility.

Matt

P.S. There is one major foundational argument that most christian teachers use to convince people of pre-tribulational rapture. They say that after Chapter 3 of Revelation we no longer see the "church" (i.e. gk ekklessia) mentioned in the text of Revelation and that the twelve tribes of Israel are the only thing referenced. To them, this means the church is no longer present and the target of Great Tribulation is "Israel" and other non-believers on the earth. I will take up this issue with my last set of posts on End Times prophecy regarding "Who is Israel?"

04-12-2022, 05:06 AM	#187
Matt Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 155	Re: Prophecy - The End Times The rapture - part 3 (last part) In my last post, I took up one view of the rapture (Out of the Midst of Wrath). Here is how I see the other views (note: the 2nd most likely view is pre-wrath and I can see how it could fit scripture). There are two main difficulties in accepting other views as reliable. 1. We are to be changed and caught up at the sound of the LAST TRUMPET (1 Cor 15:52). This seems like a definitive time marker which seems to conceptually and literally connect with the Seventh Trumpet in Revelation. 2. Jesus' "coming like a thief" is pronounced clearly, loudly and specifically between the 6th and 7th bowl in Revelation 16:15. Given the connection I see between "coming like a thief" and Jesus' Second Coming, I don't know how any other view can work. Someone will have to convince me with some text from the Word that "coming like a thief" could happen twice and be a second event that happens earlier than Revelation 16:15. Again, I do not preclude the power of God nor His ability to share some obscure references that I don't see in Scripture. I have seen some obscure references applied to Jesus' first coming in the New Testament. Lastly, I don't want my current view to be correct. I really don't, but I see danger for all believers in holding a pre-tribulational rapture viewpoint too strongly. I feel that the pre-tribulational rapture view has lead to a great sleepiness and dullness in the broader church. Many listen to the End Times events with the general idea of "Oh, that is for those other people, I won't be here". Personally, I have concluded that EVEN IF the pre-tribulational rapture of the whole church turns out to be what happens, it is still unsound doctrine at this time for believers. Teaching it as the ONLY POSSIBILITY to believers given the UNCERTAINTY in the Word of God is a great disservice to their maturing in Christ. It is scary to think about being in the Great Tribulation, but I know that times of fear in my life have led to some of the greatest times of maturing in the Lord. I have to learn how to process my fear and come to a place of faith and surety in Christ alone. This is a matter of my heart and learning to trust Him more fully in everything. From my review of many current christian teachers, it seems that almost all of them are exclusively teaching pre-tribulational rapture as the only valid view. What happens when we begin to realize that the last 7 years have started or the last 3.5 years and the church is still present on the earth? Will this be part of what helps cause or increase a "great falling away" from the faith? Will the faith that congregants have placed in their teachers, pastors and/or leaders be destroyed? For all of those christians who have not set the anchor of their heart on Jesus Christ be lost at sea? Even if you do not agree with my current view, consider what is healthy doctrine? Is it healthy to lock in on the pre-tribulational rapture as the ONLY possibility? If it is not, then consider the real possibility that the church could be here during the Great Tribulation and process through this in your heart with the Lord. Yes, I know... A bit of preachiness at the end of this part about the rapture. I have been very concerned that the church is under massive deception on this topic and that almost the entire realm of well-known christian teachers are unknowingly collaborating with the Enemy to spread this deception. The deception I refer to is teach the pre-tribulational rapture as the ONLY legitimate possibility. Matt P.S. There is one major foundational argument that most christian teachers use to convince people of pre-tribulational rapture. They say that after Chapter 3 of Revelation we no longer see the "church" (i.e. gk ekklessia) mentioned in the text of Revelation and that the twelve tribes of Israel are the only thing referenced. To them, this means the church is no longer present and the target of Great Tribulation is "Israel" and other non-believers on the earth. I will take up this issue with my last set of posts on End Times prophecy regarding "Who is Israel?" Last edited by Matt Anderson; 04-12-2022 at 07:28 AM.