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Matt Anderson · 03-28-2022, 03:35 PM

What is (and is not) God's Wrath?

Wrath is stored up for those who do not repent (Romans 2:5-7)
Wrath is not the entire Great Tribulation, it is just part of it at the end - this is interpretive on my part based on the text of the Bible (Isaiah 13:10; Joel 2:10,30-31; Matthew 24:29-30; Revelation 6:12; Revelation 11:15-19; Rev 16)
It appears based on Biblical text that God's wrath happens with the 7 bowls of wrath poured out at the end of the Great Tribulation.
The saints do not experience God's wrath. God's wrath targets on unbelieving Israel and the rest of the "earth dwellers"
So far, I have not found any prophetic text that indicates that any aspect of "God's wrath" happens before the 7 bowls of wrath. I understand that "God's wrath" has been stored up to pour out on all unrighteousness at the end of this age as we transition to Jesus' new kingdom (i.e. millenial kingdom).
God's wrath is definitely the seventh trumpet (i.e. the last trumpet) which I believe is also at the time of the seventh bowl - read Revelation 11:15-18 where the 24 elders proclaim from heaven "your wrath has come" (v18) referring to God's wrath
God's wrath also appears to include the first six bowls of wrath, but there is a significantly problematic verse (Rev 16:15) between the sixth and seventh bowls of wrath that has to be addressed.

Note: I use "earth dwellers" in multiple places in my posts. The text of Revelation uses the greek word anthropos which just means man/men. The text around the use of men sets the context for what kind of men they are. If it is clear from the surrounding text that they are not saints, then I call them "earth dwellers". In truth, they can be either unbelieving Jews or unbelieving Gentiles. They cannot be any type of the saints.

For Reference - Key Verses
- Romans 1:18, 2:5, 5:9, 9:22; Colossians 3:5-6; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; Revelation 11:15-18, 16:19, 19:15

Bowls of Wrath

I'm going to go "into the weeds" here to define the boundaries of "God's wrath". It may not seem to be extremely important, but I think it is necessary to cover this in some detail before getting to the subject of the rapture. The Bible never says that the saints (whomever this label covers during the Great Tribulation) will not experience Great Tribulation. It only says they will not experience "God's wrath" nor are they destined for "God's wrath". I should also note (for later reference) that the Bible does not say that the saints cannot be on the earth during some portion of "God's wrath". It is only completely clear that they can't experience it. I'll be drilling down on this later to present how the Bible could support the presence of the "saints" on the earth even after "God's wrath" starts while not being the target of His wrath. By no means do I want the "saints" to be on the earth for any part of "God's wrath". I don't. I am just being faithful to the complete text and will show you how the text supports this possibility.

Revelation 16:1 - And I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.”

This seems to pretty obviously connect "God's wrath" to the seven bowls of wrath. With no other text that I can find that happens sequentially before this text, I believe this is a key description of "God's wrath" in the Bible. The challenge with the seven bowls in Revelation 16 is that this chapter is not set in sequential order in the Book of Revelation.

I believe Revelation is structured as follows:

Chapter 1-3 - Introduction & Seven Churches
Chapter 4-11 - Main sequential narrative starting before the Great Tribulation (3.5 years) all the way to the end of the Great Tribulation, God's Wrath. I believe the change over to the Millenial Kingdom is minimally referenced at the end of Chapter 11.
Chapter 12-19 - Expanded Descriptions (or Appendices) which elaborate on the main characters and events of the sequential narrative from Chapter 4-11
Chapter 20-22 - Continuance of Main sequential narrative including Satan's imprisonmnent, the Millenial Kingdom through to the New Heaven/Earth, New Jerusalem, etc.

Since Revelation 16 is an Appendix, here is how I connected it to the sequential timeline.

Revelation 16:17-21 - And the seventh poured out his bowl on the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 And there were lightnings and sounds and thunders, and there was a great earthquake, as has not happened from the time humanity has been on the earth—so great in this way was the earthquake. 19 And the great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of his furious wrath. 20 And every island fled, and mountains were not found. 21 And large hailstones, weighing about a hundred pounds, came down from the sky upon people, and the people blasphemed God because of the plague of hail, because the plague of it was very great.

Revelation 11:15,19 - And the seventh angel blew the trumpet, and there was a loud voice in heaven saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign ⌊forever and ever⌋.”
... 19 And the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant appeared in his temple, and there were lightnings and sounds and thunders and an earthquake and large hail.

At first, it may seem a little flimsy to connect these texts based on the items I have bolded. It turns out that God uses the various effects on elements in the creation in various key prophetic scripture. The things happening to these elements in the creation (the sun, the moon, the stars, lightnings, thunders, mountains, islands, coastlands, etc) are reliable for connecting and sequencing some portions of prophetic scripture. Some of the most important synchronization and sequencing of scripture can only be done by paying close attention to the things happening to various elements of the creation in prophetic scripture.

In summary, I have connected the timing of the last trumpet to the last bowl. The first six bowls precede the 7th bowl and the last (7th) trumpet.

Bowl 1-3 (intensified versions of Trumpet 1-3)

Earth, Sea, Fresh Water extremely affected
Trumpets affected 33%, Bowls affect 100%
“Earth Dwellers”/Beast Worshipper’s receive harmful and painful sores with Bowl 1

Bowl 4 - Sun scorches “Earth Dwellers”. They curse God in response. They refuse to repent.
Bowl 5 - 1st Beast’s Kingdom plunged into darkness, pain and sores on “Earth Dwellers” persist. They continue to curse God. They refuse to repent.
Bowl 6 - Euphrates dried up to prepare for kings from the East to assemble for Armageddon

From the text alone, I am not able to definitively say that the first six bowls of wrath happen after the sixth trumpet. However, this seems to be viable and it is my current assumption.

If you read through them, there are some pretty dire descriptions in the first 6 trumpets, but at present I do not include these in my definition of "God's wrath". The bowls of wrath are "God's wrath" and the 7th bowl is the summation of "God's wrath" which completely addresses all unrighteousness and all those who refuse to repent even after going through all of the previous judgments spoken about in Revelation.

I honestly find it hard to believe that anyone could make it through all the judgments in Revelation described before reaching the 7th bowl without being brought to repentance. I could never endure all of it without looking at myself and acknowledging that I have need of repentance. So, those who make it this far without repentance truly deserve "God's wrath".

Matt

03-28-2022, 03:35 PM	#164
Matt Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 155	Re: Prophecy - The End Times What is (and is not) God's Wrath? Wrath is stored up for those who do not repent (Romans 2:5-7) Wrath is not the entire Great Tribulation, it is just part of it at the end - this is interpretive on my part based on the text of the Bible (Isaiah 13:10; Joel 2:10,30-31; Matthew 24:29-30; Revelation 6:12; Revelation 11:15-19; Rev 16) It appears based on Biblical text that God's wrath happens with the 7 bowls of wrath poured out at the end of the Great Tribulation. The saints do not experience God's wrath. God's wrath targets on unbelieving Israel and the rest of the "earth dwellers" So far, I have not found any prophetic text that indicates that any aspect of "God's wrath" happens before the 7 bowls of wrath. I understand that "God's wrath" has been stored up to pour out on all unrighteousness at the end of this age as we transition to Jesus' new kingdom (i.e. millenial kingdom). God's wrath is definitely the seventh trumpet (i.e. the last trumpet) which I believe is also at the time of the seventh bowl - read Revelation 11:15-18 where the 24 elders proclaim from heaven "your wrath has come" (v18) referring to God's wrath God's wrath also appears to include the first six bowls of wrath, but there is a significantly problematic verse (Rev 16:15) between the sixth and seventh bowls of wrath that has to be addressed. Note: I use "earth dwellers" in multiple places in my posts. The text of Revelation uses the greek word anthropos which just means man/men. The text around the use of men sets the context for what kind of men they are. If it is clear from the surrounding text that they are not saints, then I call them "earth dwellers". In truth, they can be either unbelieving Jews or unbelieving Gentiles. They cannot be any type of the saints. For Reference - Key Verses - Romans 1:18, 2:5, 5:9, 9:22; Colossians 3:5-6; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; Revelation 11:15-18, 16:19, 19:15 Bowls of Wrath I'm going to go "into the weeds" here to define the boundaries of "God's wrath". It may not seem to be extremely important, but I think it is necessary to cover this in some detail before getting to the subject of the rapture. The Bible never says that the saints (whomever this label covers during the Great Tribulation) will not experience Great Tribulation. It only says they will not experience "God's wrath" nor are they destined for "God's wrath". I should also note (for later reference) that the Bible does not say that the saints cannot be on the earth during some portion of "God's wrath". It is only completely clear that they can't experience it. I'll be drilling down on this later to present how the Bible could support the presence of the "saints" on the earth even after "God's wrath" starts while not being the target of His wrath. By no means do I want the "saints" to be on the earth for any part of "God's wrath". I don't. I am just being faithful to the complete text and will show you how the text supports this possibility. Revelation 16:1 - And I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.” This seems to pretty obviously connect "God's wrath" to the seven bowls of wrath. With no other text that I can find that happens sequentially before this text, I believe this is a key description of "God's wrath" in the Bible. The challenge with the seven bowls in Revelation 16 is that this chapter is not set in sequential order in the Book of Revelation. I believe Revelation is structured as follows: Chapter 1-3 - Introduction & Seven Churches Chapter 4-11 - Main sequential narrative starting before the Great Tribulation (3.5 years) all the way to the end of the Great Tribulation, God's Wrath. I believe the change over to the Millenial Kingdom is minimally referenced at the end of Chapter 11. Chapter 12-19 - Expanded Descriptions (or Appendices) which elaborate on the main characters and events of the sequential narrative from Chapter 4-11 Chapter 20-22 - Continuance of Main sequential narrative including Satan's imprisonmnent, the Millenial Kingdom through to the New Heaven/Earth, New Jerusalem, etc. Since Revelation 16 is an Appendix, here is how I connected it to the sequential timeline. Revelation 16:17-21 - And the seventh poured out his bowl on the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 And there were lightnings and sounds and thunders, and there was a great earthquake, as has not happened from the time humanity has been on the earth—so great in this way was the earthquake. 19 And the great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of his furious wrath. 20 And every island fled, and mountains were not found. 21 And large hailstones, weighing about a hundred pounds, came down from the sky upon people, and the people blasphemed God because of the plague of hail, because the plague of it was very great. Revelation 11:15,19 - And the seventh angel blew the trumpet, and there was a loud voice in heaven saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign ⌊forever and ever⌋.” ... 19 And the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant appeared in his temple, and there were lightnings and sounds and thunders and an earthquake and large hail. At first, it may seem a little flimsy to connect these texts based on the items I have bolded. It turns out that God uses the various effects on elements in the creation in various key prophetic scripture. The things happening to these elements in the creation (the sun, the moon, the stars, lightnings, thunders, mountains, islands, coastlands, etc) are reliable for connecting and sequencing some portions of prophetic scripture. Some of the most important synchronization and sequencing of scripture can only be done by paying close attention to the things happening to various elements of the creation in prophetic scripture. In summary, I have connected the timing of the last trumpet to the last bowl. The first six bowls precede the 7th bowl and the last (7th) trumpet. Bowl 1-3 (intensified versions of Trumpet 1-3) Earth, Sea, Fresh Water extremely affected Trumpets affected 33%, Bowls affect 100% “Earth Dwellers”/Beast Worshipper’s receive harmful and painful sores with Bowl 1 Bowl 4 - Sun scorches “Earth Dwellers”. They curse God in response. They refuse to repent. Bowl 5 - 1st Beast’s Kingdom plunged into darkness, pain and sores on “Earth Dwellers” persist. They continue to curse God. They refuse to repent. Bowl 6 - Euphrates dried up to prepare for kings from the East to assemble for Armageddon From the text alone, I am not able to definitively say that the first six bowls of wrath happen after the sixth trumpet. However, this seems to be viable and it is my current assumption. If you read through them, there are some pretty dire descriptions in the first 6 trumpets, but at present I do not include these in my definition of "God's wrath". The bowls of wrath are "God's wrath" and the 7th bowl is the summation of "God's wrath" which completely addresses all unrighteousness and all those who refuse to repent even after going through all of the previous judgments spoken about in Revelation. I honestly find it hard to believe that anyone could make it through all the judgments in Revelation described before reaching the 7th bowl without being brought to repentance. I could never endure all of it without looking at myself and acknowledging that I have need of repentance. So, those who make it this far without repentance truly deserve "God's wrath". Matt Last edited by Matt Anderson; 03-28-2022 at 05:13 PM.