[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Timotheist

2) The Man-Child in chapter 12... I do NOT accept Lee's assertion that this entity symbolizes the "overcomers" or the 144,000. The dragon in this vision has seven crowns, which places the time of this vision during the Roman empire. The Man-Child, then is Jesus Himself:

5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. (Rev*12:5*NAU)

The woman is Judea. who was chased out of her land and nurtured in the 'wilderness'. These events have already happened. Only Christ has ascended into heaven before the Tribulation.

More on this later... if there is interest.

There are a number of reasons Christ Himself does not fit as the "man-child" (more literally "male son"). Linked here is a paper, written by A.S. Copely perhaps around 1930. The Manchild by A.S. Copely

Below is a copy of what he said in this paper regarding Jesus Christ being the manchild:

THE MANCHILD IS NOT JESUS CHRIST
1. Jesus was not a sign or wonder child when He was born. He was actually a Jewish child, born
in a stable in Bethlehem.
2. Jesus was not caught up to heaven as soon as He was born; but He was carried into Egypt.
The sign child of our chapter was caught up to heaven as soon as it was born.
3. Jesus was born about sixty-nine years before this vision was given to John, which means that
the birth described in Revelation 12 can have no reference to His birth in any sense.
4. Jesus' mother also fled into Egypt with her Babe; but when the manchild was taken up to
heaven, the woman fled into the wilderness alone. John saw the facts of Revelation twelve from
the Day of the Lord; hence, he expressed them as past, though they are still future.
5. Both Jesus and His mother returned from Egypt after some months. But the manchild is not
seen returning from heaven, nor the woman from the wilderness.
6. Jesus went up to heaven, not as a child, but when He was thirty-three years old. The sign child
goes to heaven as soon as it is born, while it is yet a child.
7. Mary was not in heaven - neither before, nor after, her Babe was born. The sign woman of our
text chapter was first seen in heaven, then on earth also. There is not the slightest reference to
Mary in this chapter.
8. We do not read that Mary cried with travail pain. No doubt, the birth of Jesus was lively and
painless, as we read of the Hebrews in Exodus 1:19. This sign woman "cried, travailing in birth,
and pained to be delivered."
9. Mary was not a great wonder woman, but a simple Jewish maiden attracting no special
attention even after her Child was born.
10. Mary was not sun-clad, with the moon under her feet. She wore no crown of twelve stars. She
was simply a favored Jewish woman, whom God chose to be the mother of the Messiah. But the
wonder woman will be sun-clad, moon-honored, and star-crowned.
11. Immediately after the birth and ascension of the manchild, war is seen in heaven; but we read
of no war, neither in heaven nor on earth, at the birth of Jesus.
12 . Satan was expecting the birth of the manchild; for he "Stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born." But the birth of Jesus was a
surprise to Satan. He did not stir up Herod against Him until after His birth - after the wise men
from the East has inquired of him where the Christ should be born. Next, let us note, that - THE MANCHILD IS NOT THE CHURCH