Quote:
Originally Posted by Timotheist
I am asking to determine where you are on the topic of "judgement for the believer". There is a pretty wide spectrum of opinions on this subject, ranging from "there is no judgement for the believer" (i.e. exemption) all the way to "it is possible for a 'slacker' to be thrown into Gehenna along with the unbelievers.
Your responses so far indicate you are in the left end of the spectrum, essentially believing that judgement is solely for the unbeliever, and has nothing to do with one's level of sanctification. I think this view is "far too left".
In the context of those who left the LR, I have seen those who deLEEted his teachings of Sheol followed by resurrection and judgement, and have adopted a more mainstream view of heaven or hell, with the believers expecting to ascend immediately to heaven upon death. I think this view is also "too far left". Despite Lee's many flaws, I ultimately decided that he was more correct in this area.
Just wanting to get to know you better,
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Regarding your point about being “exempt”.
I will say the following:
1. The ultimate flaw of this concept of “exempt”, is misunderstanding of what gospel really is.
2. When the Gospel has been made anything more than what Jesus has said of, in John 5:24 (KJV) “*Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”, its no longer the gospel of grace but the gospel of works.
3. I have stated on multiple occasions on this forum regarding Jesus+ fallacies that are so much present in the churches today, recovery included, that its the most destructive and disabling form of spiritual abuse, that people subject themselves too. There are no multiple steps in your salvation, you ether saved or your not, you ether believed unto Jesus as the only way or not. Everything above those parameters is a flawed gospel its the Gospel of works!
4. Salvation is not a process, or something you work for, its something that’s a FREE GIFT OF GOD, By GRACE, By FAITH! It’s irreversible! Once one is born again, you cannot be unborn! Once a person believes and understand that it’s only by Christ alone and not of themselves, puts total trust in that ALONE, then he shall not come into condemnation, but passed from death unto life! God is not going to be reviewing your good works vs your bad once to see if you are saved for eternity, its weather you put your trust in the work of Jesus Christ and His completed work on this earth, that’s what matters!
5. Anyone that has put his faith in Christ, and by that, therefore has been born again, is a child of God, and will not be condemned to hell! Heb 10:14 (KJV) says “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” That one offering has made me sanctified before God, through the completed work of Christ, and not of anything that I will do in my lifetime. In Isaiah 64:6 it says, “But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” Nothing and I mean nothing you will be able to add to your salvation! Not a single deed, or your work of sanctification!
6. Lastly, for those who disagree with this gospel and believe something that a person does in their work of sanctification will somehow make a determination on their future, or that they won’t know their true outcome until they stand before God, I will say the following: Rom 11:6 says, “*And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.” The arguments that one will hear here, is, what about the slackers? and you have a blanket license to live how you want, do absolutely nothing, live in sin, have no desire for living by the Word of God, etc. I state that it is impossible for the true born again believer to do so, and I’m not a perfectionist theology supporter. James 3:10-12 says “Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.*Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.”
How can this be? How can a true born again believer be a slacker? Not possible! I can’t imagine a day that I would not be thankful to God for what He has done for me, paid in full for all of my sins, adopted me as a son, and gave me a full assurance of the eternal life, that I would forsake to love Him and His commandments, not for my salvation purposes, but as a thankfullness for what He has done for me. BUT even if there will come a day when it is not so, He by His mercy and Grace, and by being My Father, will do the following as He promises in Heb 12:6-8,
6*For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7*If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8*But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Simple Gospel, simple sanctification, simple end results! Live by faith in Christ, justified by Faith, sanctified through His work on the cross once, and his righteousness is imputed to me, not through anything of my own. The things that I do today, are for my reward, for running the race, and not for anything else. My future is as certain today as it was on the day I put my faith in Christ, and therefore anyone that does so, will not be condemned.
Good works, trying very hard to become an overcomer, destroying your soul, eating of the tree of life, following a vision, subjecting yourself to the yokes of man, will not get you there, nether for your salvation of works or levels of your sanctification.
I don’t care where someone writes me in regarding far left, or far right, or up or down, so you can make that determination for yourself.
Thanks.