Local Church Discussions - View Single Post - Is the Processed, Four-in-One God a sound doctrine?

Trapped · 09-08-2021, 08:36 PM

This post can go to the "Is God a Trinity?" thread if it better belongs there. I could easily post it in both locations. This four-in-one thread was the catalyst for my creating the Trinity thread anyway.

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As far as I can tell, what is going on here is directly related to the Trinity teaching. And this is why the Trinity teaching is so important to get right, or to correctly get that it is wrong (I'm still on the fence, but leaning one way that is probably obvious from what I've written on the other Trinity thread).

To call Jesus "God" without distinction of what "God" He is leads to unavoidable logical conclusions like Mary is the mother of God. But she wasn't. She was the human mother of the Son of God, who is Himself "god" but not "THE GOD".

The Trinity teaching conflates what "God" each person of the Trinity is into saying they are somehow the same God, and produces aberrant results like the one Drake is trying to lead us to.

To try to explain what I mean, look at Psalm 82. (It's not too long).

https://biblehub.com/bsb/psalms/82.htm#

Psalm 82:1 says:
God presides in the divine assembly; He renders judgment among the gods:

This is clearly a divine gathering. Not a human gathering. And it's not a meeting of the Trinity because the Trinity says each person is co-equal and in this passage God is clearly lighting into the other gods and is angry with them. A member of the Trinity, being God, does not fit with the accusations leveled at them rest of the chapter either. This is a divine gathering of gods with our one true God (and by this I do not mean the Triune God....I mean the Father, El, the one true God) over it all.

Verse one contains a reference to "God" (what we all think of when we say "God") and it contains a reference to "the gods".

If you look at the Hebrew for verse 1 (here: https://biblehub.com/text/psalms/82-1.htm), it is the exact same Hebrew word for both.

elohim

So when we see "elohim" it does not always have to mean the Most High God.

There was a divine assembly with a plurality of gods. elohim. There is a hierarchy, however, and God - our God - presided in this divine assembly. Our God is over all the gods in the spiritual realm.

This is why the Bible calls Him the "Most High", or "the one true". And "besides me there is no other like me". The God who is jealous over us is surrounded by non-pareil gods in the immaterial spiritual realm. This is why, in the OT, God was always trying to get His people to turn back from the other gods to Him, the one true God, the preeminent.

The letters G-O-D do not always have to mean the one true unique Creator God.

Jesus can therefore be "God" but NOT BE THE SAME GOD AS THE FATHER. As far as I can tell, this makes the Trinity construct, as well as pretty much all of the confusing, illogical aspects of it, fall apart. Jesus can be elohim, but the Father is the most high elohim.....God above all gods.

And as far as I can tell this leaves nothing left for Lee to create a four-in-one doctrine from either.

09-08-2021, 08:36 PM	#115
Trapped Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 1,523	Re: Is the Processed, Four-in-One God a sound doctrine? This post can go to the "Is God a Trinity?" thread if it better belongs there. I could easily post it in both locations. This four-in-one thread was the catalyst for my creating the Trinity thread anyway. ================= As far as I can tell, what is going on here is directly related to the Trinity teaching. And this is why the Trinity teaching is so important to get right, or to correctly get that it is wrong (I'm still on the fence, but leaning one way that is probably obvious from what I've written on the other Trinity thread). To call Jesus "God" without distinction of what "God" He is leads to unavoidable logical conclusions like Mary is the mother of God. But she wasn't. She was the human mother of the Son of God, who is Himself "god" but not "THE GOD". The Trinity teaching conflates what "God" each person of the Trinity is into saying they are somehow the same God, and produces aberrant results like the one Drake is trying to lead us to. To try to explain what I mean, look at Psalm 82. (It's not too long). https://biblehub.com/bsb/psalms/82.htm# Psalm 82:1 says: God presides in the divine assembly; He renders judgment among the gods: This is clearly a divine gathering. Not a human gathering. And it's not a meeting of the Trinity because the Trinity says each person is co-equal and in this passage God is clearly lighting into the other gods and is angry with them. A member of the Trinity, being God, does not fit with the accusations leveled at them rest of the chapter either. This is a divine gathering of gods with our one true God (and by this I do not mean the Triune God....I mean the Father, El, the one true God) over it all. Verse one contains a reference to "God" (what we all think of when we say "God") and it contains a reference to "the gods". If you look at the Hebrew for verse 1 (here: https://biblehub.com/text/psalms/82-1.htm), it is the exact same Hebrew word for both. elohim So when we see "elohim" it does not always have to mean the Most High God. There was a divine assembly with a plurality of gods. elohim. There is a hierarchy, however, and God - our God - presided in this divine assembly. Our God is over all the gods in the spiritual realm. This is why the Bible calls Him the "Most High", or "the one true". And "besides me there is no other like me". The God who is jealous over us is surrounded by non-pareil gods in the immaterial spiritual realm. This is why, in the OT, God was always trying to get His people to turn back from the other gods to Him, the one true God, the preeminent. The letters G-O-D do not always have to mean the one true unique Creator God. Jesus can therefore be "God" but NOT BE THE SAME GOD AS THE FATHER. As far as I can tell, this makes the Trinity construct, as well as pretty much all of the confusing, illogical aspects of it, fall apart. Jesus can be elohim, but the Father is the most high elohim.....God above all gods. And as far as I can tell this leaves nothing left for Lee to create a four-in-one doctrine from either.