Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Everyday we're hearing more and more about the "Cancel Culture" and its affects in this country, in trying to root out the perceived deep-seated ills of society. But just questioning the "woke" ideas and methods of the day can get you quickly ostracized from many groups. And standing for some basic, conservative values will get you - at the least - looked at as being a backward Neanderthal of sorts. But also increasingly you may be labeled as a dangerous bigot and perhaps other serious reactions like even being unceremoniously dismissed from your job! Something then occurred to me as I considered all of these disturbing things and I had sort of a "duh" moment.

In light of this I wondered how long it might be before the "woke" culture starts to see more and more of these "evil" things as emanating from Christians. That is, how long is it until Christians are seen as a primary source of hindrance, who are holding society back from achieving some sort of Utopian ideal?

A few months ago it was difficult for me to imagine open persecutions of Christians taking place in this country. Now, that doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me . . .

Anyone else perceive this?

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Hateful Christian's, or those not loving their neighbors, should be Cancel Cultured. Good riddance with the hypocrites. Don't be confused. They're not being persecuted for being Christians, but for being hateful.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Sure!

First they come after symbols like statues, next they come after property and assets like our cars, finally they come after people.

President Trump said it best to his audience one day: "They don't hate me, they hate you. I'm just in the way."

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

If anyone stands up for Jesus and the truth, he will be called hateful and bigoted. You will be canceled. You will be called an intolerant hypocrite. You will be attacked and shamed and called a racist. They will label you as with the Jews of old.

They will adopt all the same tactics of the fascist gestapos, yet call themselves "Antifa" or some social justice warriors. They will come purging society, claiming you are the fault of all evil, and kill you thinking they do service to God.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Bro Ohio, you've got some wild paranoid imaginings there.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Or perhaps I am in "awareness" of many things you choose to deny.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Well, we've been moved to the dark side (Alternative Views) - I blame this on you two "politicos" (Awareness & Ohio)!

Just kidding . . . sorta.

Actually, I guess I don't really understand what constitutes an Alternative View . . . I thought we'd just have some fellowship about this topic, hence I started it in the Fellowship Hall. Oh well, seems anything that could wax political will get moved here.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Oh, I forgot. You've got a hot line to God's cell phone in heaven.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

So it's true. Christians are being persecuted ... even on LCD. Forgive me bro Ohio ... you're right.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

:hysterical:................

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Now, now, you're cancelling many in my state of Kentucky, that's filled with Neanderthal's of sorts. They're called hillbilly hick's, red necks, country bumpkins, among other derogatory terms. But they act and think like knuckle-draggers on tractors.

I don't think millennial's will bother. They're turning away from the churches in droves, just leaving them behind, and not looking back.

But, if due to failing in the spiritual realm, to reach people, and as smaller collection plates develop, if Christians continue to turn to politics out of desperation, they'll likely become targets.

Besides, history proves that Christians have flourished during persecutions ... so give it your best shot woker's.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Or perhaps all is hopeless endeavor in denying there is God. I believe many of these anti-first amendment (antifascists) were brought up in Christian homes. Only now as adults want to eradicate any memory of a Christian upbringing. In persecuting Christians "might" soothe their soul.
I cannot get beyond how one considering themselves a "social justice warrior" finds justice by inflicting injuries or causing death to another human being.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Now in California, a place of worship is restricted from singing. Of the different faiths, which one would you identify this affecting? Christians!
within the last 10-15 years I used to see these bumper stickers promoting tolerance of different faiths. Many faiths were easily identifiable, but that of Christians and Catholics was conspicuously absent. Seems a subtle form of persecution. Only now it is becoming less and less subtle.

Speaking about the "woke", they are in many ways very similar to the local churches. Engaged in their emotions and disengaged from their mind. Tend to be very much asleep. Instead of thinking for themselves, there's reliance on the media to do the thinking for them. In essence, far from awake, the "woke" are very much asleep.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Brother Terry, maybe you need to look deeper into the woke movement other than what's presented in the media.

This is outside that concern but, I came up in the days when the young college students were protesting Vietnam -- think of Nixon and Kent State -- and it turned out that those protesters were right ... and Nixon -- I'm not a crook -- was wrong.

Then the youth went silent. They seemed to be too obsessed with their gadgets to care.

So I don't care how they're branded, in the media or elsewhere, I'm just glad to see them active again.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

In the end, what will it profit them if they do indeed gain the whole world, yet do not find Christ? Of course, nothing. Movements and unrest are fine, as far as God uses them to gain some or hopefully many. Like everything else Adam does, the fruit of it is in the realm of the flesh, which again, profits nothing. And we will know what tree the fruit comes from by its reaction to Christ. He said that those of the world would hate us Christians, because they hated Him first, right?

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

By your logic, perhaps David Koresh was right and Clinton -- "it depends on what the definition of 'is' is" -- was wrong. Wrong about Ruby Ridge too. Too many "wrongs" to list here.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Not the same thing. There's way too many bodies behind Clintoon to count.

And Koresh was very bright in Bible knowledge, and didn't deserve getting burned to the ground, and Gerry Spence proved that Randy Weaver was wronged too ... both Christians that suffered persecution.

And they don't relate to young people protesting. I thought pubbies were 1st amendment supporters ... I guess not if young lefter's use it.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Now this is Christian persecution. Not like the lack of real persecution in America :

China 'orders Christians to destroy crosses on their churches and take down images of Jesus in intensifying crackdown on religion'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ges-Jesus.html

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Yes - Christian persecution is much more manifest there. But the idea of this thread is seeing how things could progress in the USA to get to this point. The seeds of this look to me like they are sprouting here now.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Oh stop it bro StG. The courts back Christians here in America. Are you being persecuted?

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Things change bro. I guess you see no way that can happen, right?

The point is . . . well, read the opening post. Things are moving pretty quickly, more and more away from a Christian base in this country. And if you think it's an extreme idea that people can be persecuted for their beliefs, consider that they threw women in jail just for their stance on suffrage in the 20th century. We think we're so civilized with our laws and courts, etc., but things with ol' Adam do change - and often quicker than we think.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

All things are possible. But I don't see Christians being persecuted in mass any time soon. In fact, according to the courts, they now don't have to do anything against their conscience. They don't even have to make a cake for gays.

If anyone is being persecuted here in America it's the LGBTQ community. Christians today believe that Jesus taught love your neighbor, unless they are LGBTQ. Those hypocritical Christians should be persecuted. But alas that's against the law.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Well, in Adam we're all hypocritical and prejudiced, etc., to one degree or another I think. So therefore I'm glad we've been placed in the new man based on His characteristics!

This possible persecution thing is just something I perceive that some seeds of it may be growing now, so it could be just my imagination (running away with me). But stay tuned & will see what happens . . .

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Yeah ... so many "peaceful protests" going on these days.
Did you ever study how fast Hitler moved on the western world?

Today China and Russia are working together like never before. How fast do you think the Biden / Pelosi / Shumer / Sanders / AOC group would bow down and let them take over the US? Weeks instead of years. China owns Biden.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

This is a falsehood, pure and simple. That Colorado baker Jack Phillips was willing to sell any and every cake he had on display. His only stipulation was not to do original artwork that violated his conscience. He was setup and framed. Unfortunately awareness once again has no awareness as to the actual facts.

What if someone went to a famous artist and demanded that he or she paint something about the unborn's right to live? Then sued the artist for declining to create art. Three times! My example exactly relates to the case in reverse.

I bet awareness would never come to the defense of that pro-life patron. There's a word for that bro. It's called hypocrite.

There's no evidence of this, Christians persecuting LGBTQ. Just another straw man argument.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Well it's not like there's never been persecutions of Christians. Here's :

A list of some U.S. house of worship shootings since 2012

https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-w...gs-since-2012/

From the list I'm not sure all of them represent persecutions of Christians, or because they were Christian, many of them had to do with race.

Anyway bro StG, persecution of a Christian church, here and there, have happened. And all of them are a concern.

But also, there's internal persecutions, that happen in the minds of one group opposing another, or all of them.

I guess in your words, the Adam=man nature carry's on in all the more than 33,000 Christian sects.

That's internal persecution going on within Christianity, all the time, every day, up to today ; constant, all the time, persecutions going on in the minds of Christians.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Awareness this, awareness that. It's like the topic of this thread is all about awareness.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

If you call yourself awareness, and then make comments that you know will irritate others, then you should at least be aware of what you are talking about.

That's how I grew up.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Well thanks bro Ohio. Continue to hold my feet to the fire.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Sorry if I sounded a little caustic. Your constant critique of Christians wears on me at times.

The case of the Colorado baker Jack Philips is actually persecution of his faith by the lgbtq community and their sympathizers.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

But why should there be any problem at all between them? What happened to hate the sin but love the sinner?

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

I see no problem either.

But why do you continually disregard the facts? The baker never refused to serve the lgbtq community. They could buy any cake he made. They could buy out his entire store. The baker made it clear that he loved all people, including the lgbtq, and everyone was free to buy his cakes. These facts were never disputed.

If a Christian baker in good conscience decides not to use his artistry talents on lgbtq issues, then why should he be sued? Why not find a different baker? There's lots of them in town. But no! This one baker was targeted for his faith, severely punished by local authorities, and repeatedly sued, all to make an example out of him.

Then why can't I find the most prominent artist in town, and demand that he/she create anti-abortion art for my special event? Which public official or agency would support my demands? Which court would uphold my suit?

All claims of bias, bigotry, and racism must pass the simple "shoe-on-the-other-foot" test, eh?

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

In my post I wasn't concerned about the facts, just the point that Christian's rights to follow their conscience is protected by the courts.

I thought the cake thing was stupid. To me there was no problem that couldn't have been solved by talking it out, or going elsewhere, maybe to a gay bakery. I'm sorry for holding Christians to a higher standard than I do for the LBGTQ's.

I guess the cake thing was more important to you than to me.

I think I'd follow that happening much closer than I did the cake thing. It would be a bigger deal than the clerk Kim Davis here in Ky.

Do it bro. I'd love to watch. And maybe you could have a goFund Me collection, and make a fortune, after paying your legal fees. Jane Roe proved there's big money in being against abortion. And she was just pretending.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Tying this back to my earlier post regarding faiths. Tolerance of all faiths, but not Christians/Catholics. I don't am not familiar with these areas if there are bakeries of other faiths? Maybe this one had been targeted because of Christian owners? If it had been a muslim bakery, we practice tolerance. No insistence and no claim of discrimination. Below is a video similar to once I have seen in past years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmdiqB_8l2k

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

It’s just a goddamn cake! But really, Christians make up such a large proportion if the U.S population and no one’s throwing them to the lions den. This is good news! Be happy with what we have here, right? You told me on the other threads to be constantly reminded of how “lucky” LGBTQ are in the United States compared to other countries so I think a similar perspective should be in place here.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

I think this language (1st sentence) is way inappropriate, even for the Alt Views section. I would ask you to not use such language . . . please.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

What? fine “freakin”. Clearly you are not a millenial. its not blasphemy by our standards.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

I feel discriminated against . . .

Actually, if you can't think of a proper word, then I prefer "frakin." :hysterical:

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

The Christian's should own it. They made it a Goddamn cake ... cuz according to them homosexuality is damned by God ... therefore making a cake for gays would be a God damned cake. That's their thinking.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Why do you guys purposely misunderstand? Do you consciously just play stupid?

The Colorado Baker Jack Philips was willing to sell the plaintiffs any cake in the store, any size, any shape, any color, any flavor. But you knew that. So you pretend that Philips was discriminating against all gays. Not so. read the facts of the case. No discrimination whatsoever! They could buy every eff'n cake they wanted!

But it was demanded of Philips that he apply, not his baking skills, but his artistry skills to their cake. Show me one recognized artist in the world who is forced against his wishes to use his talents where he decides not to?

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

And gay had nothing to do with it.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Yes, thank you.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

So what if it did? The point is an artist isn't forced to create a work against their will, are they?

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Well it is still discrimination because he would have made a cake for a heterosexual couple but not for a same sex couple.

And he would make a birthday cake for a cisgender person but not for a trans woman-
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc...mp/ncna1184656

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

That should be his choice, just like any artist. For example, you couldn't force an atheist artist to paint a picture of the crucifixion scene, could you? Like Ohio said - they could buy a cake, but they shouldn't violate his conscience by forcing him to decorate it a certain way.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

The gay community knew his principles and targeted him for attack.

That Colorado baker has long been the victim of orchestrated hate discrimination for using his artistic talents only for select topics.

'Clearly a set-up': Colorado baker Jack Phillips back in court over gender-transition cake

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

I dont know, both sides should just chill. But if it were me and my wife wanting a wedding themed cake and someone didnt want to do it for us, the sad reality is yes, we would be heartbroken and mad. But we would leave it alone and go seek another baker thats willing to do it. But since we live in California, I think that is more feasible than Colorado, if in Colorado, all the bakers are unable to provide a decorated cake due to their religious beliefs or “conscience”, then it might be more difficult. Then if me and my sweetheart were living in Colorado, we would have to make our own cake.. which is a hurdle no heterosexual couple will have to contend with, unless they do not have the funds to buy the cake from the Colorado baker. Not because they are heterosexual.

Maybe Jack is the only baker in town?

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

The truth is that bro Ohio don't know Jack. I guess I could be wrong. He might be friends with him.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Use your google app. Thousands of bakers in Colorado. You must have some persecution complex, you imagine some when none exists. When was the last time you were denied service amywhere?

I find it kind of infuriating that you seem to be Facts-inated. I have mentioned repeatedly that the baker was willing to make any cake they wanted, but apparently you got a brain freeze to think that no baker in CO would bake for you.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

so you are infuriated. maybe you should check my sentence structure or did you not go to school? I said “if” all the bakers in Colorado. You also imagine no discrimination when there is.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Oh so what if there is! Are we going to perfect Adam and his race? No, of course not!

God's one answer for Adam was death. Only in Christ will all this be fixed. Let's stop thinking we're going to perfect something through efforts, legislation, etc. Not going to happen!

There one hope of glory, and that's Christ in us!

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But we should each try to do our part in making the world a better place than we leave it. But I guess the word “better” is subjective. Some people think a better world is one without lgbtq in it, or no “privileged” rights for them. Others think lgbtq should have the same right to a wedding as a straight couple. Same with anti-abortion and pro-abortion. Each side wants the world a better place but their views of “better” are different. So I guess no matter how hard we try, it wont be “perfect” for everyone.

Although some bakers are willing to sell cakes to lgbtq, they are unwilling to customize it and if I cant get a customized cake decorated, then I’ll just have to make my own or go to a baker willing to customize it. But then a straight couple would not have to worry about that whether a baker would refuse to customize their wedding cake due to their hetero status. Not sure if this is ideal

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

This thought is certainly admirable, but is that according to what the NT tells us? In the end, of our own efforts we're all just trying to remake the world according to how we think things should be. May I suggest to you that in the final analysis, it's all folly and vain?

He will sort it all out sister! It's not up to us to change the world - that is 100% His job. And the more we try, the deeper it sucks us in and sucks the true life out of us.

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Have your cake and eat it too!

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

To be honest, I was thinking more along the lines of how Jesus taught us to live- to help the needy in the world and treat our neighbors as we want them to treat us, etc etc. I dont think it’s all folly if I can help someone smile :) it’s actually quite emotionally rewarding- but that can just be my career talking. im a therapist after all..

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

thanks I will, Yum yum.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Yes, He certainly gave us the outward example. However, our natural life cannot keep up with that - for instance, Jesus said to love our enemies and bless those that curse you and spitefully use you, (Luke 6:27) and He certainly did that Himself! And He knew we couldn't do those things in ourselves, so God made this life available to live in us and do it!

Our battle these days is seeing what He's already done and who He has made us. This takes transformation of the mind to see and walk in Him.

Re: Christian Persecution in the USA?
 

Yes! you make my point clearer. We show others the love of Christ manifesting through us by helping them. :) We may not be able to do everything but together, every little bit counts and makes a difference in the long run. Even if that difference is tiny to begin with, it’s better than nothing at all!