LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

Hi Everyone,

I grew up in the LC of Asia (afraid to specify where exactly) and my parents were brought in around 20 years ago by other relatives of ours in other parts of the world.

I've been observing this forum for awhile but was nervous about posting on here but I fear that my family will soon be ripped apart because I have left the LC. Note that both my parents have both gone to the MTT.

I have grown up to believe (like many of you) that the LC is the only Church on the right path, like the Church in Philadelphia and all the other churches are fallen like the Church in Laodicea or Pergamum. I have attended the meetings, summer training and lived with LC sisters throughout my university years, but I still wouldn't consider myself a very "passionate" sister - who would read the Morning Revivals and Life studies ritualistically like many do. Of course I enjoyed the church life, studying and living with the sisters, but I was always somewhat bothered by how ..mindless (?) some seemed.

For example, a lot of the sisters that I've spoken to weren't clear on what "God's economy" meant (believe it or not). From my understanding, the crux of Witness Lee's ministry is the notion of God's economy! Other problems I encountered were that it seemed the sisters believed everything they were told and did not question because, like what Jane Anderson said, the elders say that the question mark is the shape of a snake and therefore questioning is from Satan. The last time I heard this being taught was, I think, 6 years ago in Anaheim? I didn't interact too much with brothers, given how strict the church is about male and female interaction so I won't comment too much on it. I don't mean to sound so critical, they are good people as a whole, prideful but passionate for the Lord. (Prideful for being passionate for the Lord?)

A lot of the saints that I've met in Asia are truly wonderful and a lot of the younger people here are truly seeking the Lord but I fear that some of them are receiving negligent guidance.. A year before I left the LC, a girl questioned some of the leading brothers during bible study about whether the LC is related to some cult and that her pastor had negative views over Witness Lee. The leading brothers flew into a rage and said " I WAS WITNESS LEE'S PERSONAL STUDENT, I'VE SEEN HIM FACE TO FACE. TELL YOUR PASTOR TO COME SEE ME, I'LL SUE HIM MYSELF". (Words may have been slightly altered but something along those lines). I was deeply shocked at how emotional the leading brothers were over things being said about Witness Lee. The girl wasn't criticizing Christ or the Bible..

Ok, now some of you might be wondering how I left the LC. By God's grace, my closest friend (also a sister from another church) was introduced to the LC by her husband and they both started attending the LC in the US. My boyfriend also started attending the LC with me. After a couple of months, my friend and boyfriend noticed something wrong with the church. I won't go into details as there have already been many testimonies on this :) For months, they were both pleading with me and praying for me to open my eyes and see that Witness Lee and not Christ is the center of this church!! I would fight with my boyfriend over it for many months and our relationship suffered, but he remained patient with me. He would try not to argue with me but speak to me with gentleness and love, then pray for me over the phone as I wept silently. At the same time, he would rebut everything I believed with scripture. For example, all the emphasis given on LIFE - there's not just Life but also Truth.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me... John 14:6

My boyfriend also sat down with my dad to try and fellowship with him over the problems he found in Witness lee's book "Basic Elements of a Christian Life" but to no avail. My dad would say that we must read everything Witness Lee writes in order to see what WL really means! You must look at it from the entire context of the Bible. I pointed out that the RcV bible is missing the word "adoption" from Ephesians 1:5, but my dad told me that the RcV is the most accurate bible so we must look at the original Greek. Even after showing my dad the original Greek, he still says "sonship" and "adoption" means the same thing. Then he tried to pressure my boyfriend and I to speak with a brother who works at the DCP (Defense and Confirmation Project). My boyfriend soon realized that this is a spiritual stronghold and that no logical/ rational explanation could be used to convince my dad that he is defending Witness Lee and not Christ. Not even meeting with the brother in the DCP or any elder.

My parents have used all forms of manipulation to pull me back into the LC. Some of saints have also tried to offer me positions to help out at Church in an effort to possibly bring me back (?) Perhaps, I should look at this from a positive perspective and see that they miss me a lot and it is all out of good will (I don't doubt this either) I am told that I'm a lost sheep and they will try to make an effort to "save me".

I have read The Thread of Gold and a bit of John Ingalls book "Speaking Truth in Love" (although, this book made me feel even more bitter towards the LC so I stopped reading it in the middle) but none of it could offer me any insights into how to deal with my current situation. If anyone could recommend any other books which may help me, please let me know. I'm also reading "The bait of Satan" by John Bevere.

My parents and I would fight almost every day until I leave home for a bit. Then they would calm down for awhile and it would begin again. I'm disappointed with myself for not being able to find strength in the Lord and speak with gentleness (as my bf did to me). My friend told me that remaining in the church is like poison that will eat into you slowly. My parents, like most LC-ers are heavily engaged in church affairs so there's not much chance for me to invite them to other churches. They need to see that other churches also have big conferences and are actually very much united.

I hope that posting on here isn't showing dishonor to my parents, we've always been very close but I really don't know where else to turn at this point. They're making my relationship with my bf very difficult because of the church issues. They think that he is the only reason why I've left and the reason why our family is having problems. They would only be satisfied if I date a brother from the LC even though my dad used to say "As long as he loves the Lord". It's really starting to appear like I have no choice but to leave home.

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

Welcome ByHisGrace to the forum!

I read with sorrow the difficult predicament you are in. I encourage you to love your family, remembering all the good things about them, while focusing on following Jesus the Lord and His word. It is probably impossible for a child to convince her parents that they are wrong, I know because I tried to do the same thing 40 years ago when I first met with the LC's. Tragically my Mom died suddenly while we were still somewhat in conflict over teachings emphasized by Lee. For years I have lived with those regrets.

The LC teaches that their church supersedes family, and that one must choose the LC over one's own children. They twist the scripture to arrive at this conclusion. I encourage you to love them, and focus on Jesus and the Bible, and try to remain above all the petty conflicts. Ask your boyfriend not to stir up your anger towards your family in the LC by giving you all the bad news about their church. Remember they do love the Lord, and they helped you to love the Lord. You must be most grateful for them! How much better than being a Buddhist or a Mooslem?

Please read scriptures like Romans 14 and I Corinthians chapters 1-3, which teach you to accept other Christians who practice differently than you do. These same conflicts existed in the early church over celebrating holidays, and following different ministers. The Bible teaches us to love one another even when they have different teachings and practices.

All this is possible ByHisGrace! The Lord bless you and keep you!

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

While I agree somewhat with Ohio's statement, my impression of Asian culture is that family ties in practice can over-ride even church commitment. I have as my example none other than Witness Lee himself, who repeatedly chose his sons over the best interests of the church. At one point when the elders protested that he made his son Philip an executive in the LSM, he replied, "If I want to hire an unbeliever as my personal chef, that is my business." Witness Lee put his family first, and no one could stop him.

So our new friend here has this advantage. As long as you (BHG) are not adversarial toward your parents, they will respect your desire for some spiritual independence. Just tell them that you are considering things. Allow some space to come in.

Your boyfriend was operating from a position of strength in fellowship with you, because he was not under the authority of the LC. You need to do the same. Establish spiritual independence, while maintaining friendly relations with your family. Remember that if your family sees in you a spirit of meekness, per 2 Tim 2:25, they will remain calm and not be threatened by your attempts to seek growth outside LC environs.

Do not become antagonistic! That is my only advice. (this is from one who has failed many times. But I can still repent, and learn!)

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

I will be praying for you sister! :)

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

Thanks Aron. That's good advice I need to heed. At times I do feel myself having antagonistic impulses in regard to relationship with my parents in regard to the local churches.

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

A Future and A Hope is one book that may offer some help. Once your eyes are opened to see that the centrality of Christ has become the centrality of Witness Lee you can never "not see it" as your love for the Lord Himself will not permit you to. The Father loves the Son dearly and has given Him the first place in all things - we to must love Him above everything including any ministry no matter how excellent or otherwise it may seem.

Sadly, to me, the local church seems to have become a profitable publishing house run by executives that have managed to build their own customer base called LSM churches, while effectively quashing the competition. I do hope I'm wrong

The book URL
http://assemblylife.com

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

Thank you for your swift response and words of encouragement Ohio! :D
I'm so sorry for what happened to your mother, I do fear that something like that might happen. Especially now that they're getting to that age where they really need to watch their health. My dad and I have both been affected, health-wise, by this ongoing conflict.

Thank you also for sharing scripture with me, I will definitely mark them down :)

And yes, my boyfriend avoided my parents for awhile because of the conflicts - only to be told that he doesn't care about them or respect them :frown5: Otherwise, he has to face interrogation from my dad. This has gotten a lot better though, after my own deterioration of health, but the vibe is still there. (If you know what I mean)

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

Hi Aron, you do bring up a good point :P My dad WOULD put down his LC obligations if I insist. He is a shepherding one, so it's difficult for him to fully break away for too long but he would if it's very important.

Yes, I fail at remaining calm a lot of the times and I do repent for that :frown5: Thank you for your kind reminder :)

I am actually most concerned with my relationship situation. As an obedient asian girl who really wants to make her parents happy, it's difficult for me to have parents who disapprove who I date and potentially marry. I guess God has a plan for us all through this experience. We all need some adversity to help us shed our old selves and turn to the Lord. I must admit, I have never been so interested in digging into the scriptures before this contentious matter arose.

So I suppose, Praise the Lord! And thank you all for your support. If anyone has a similar experience and would like to share, please do!

All your testimonies have been a real encouragement because it's difficult to confide in people who don't understand what I've been through and not many people can!!

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

Thank you NML for sharing this book. I like how it's more recent than some of the other books I've looked at :D

Yes, many LC members take pride of the fact that a donation bag isn't passed around at every Lord's day meeting, but someone pointed out to me that buying the LSM books are actually mandatory donations haha If we don't buy them, we can't keep up with everyone and can't follow or participate in the meetings!

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

Love your neighbor as yourself...there's no conditional word as in Luke 6:32. I think to love your neighbor bears significance being quoted 9 times in the Bible (Leviticus 19:18, Matthew 5:43, 19:19, 22:39, Mark 12:31, Luke 10:27, Romans 13:9, Galatians 5:14, and James 2:8).
In our regard for fellow members of the Body of Christ, I would recommend 1 Corinthians 12 & 13.

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

I guess it depends on one's perspective. In a community church, I have no reluctance in giving. There's transparency in missionaries, ministries, and charities the church supports financially.
In the local churches, I did have reluctance. I did not have the peace how the money would be used. Leading up to the Harvest House litigation, elders would pledge how much their locality could give towards the lawsuit. No, thank you.

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

On the matter of guidance, or lack of has been noted by more than a few here how much guidance once receives is directly proportionate how "absolute" and "on fire" one is for the ministry. If you're one who's for the locality and has a take it or leave it approach to LSM publications as I was it's very easy to receive less care than one who exhibits more zeal for the ministry.
What was said about the question mark is something I've heard before. Really it exhibits the spiritual stronghold and a display of spiritual abuse that exists. In practice, it reveals a lack of responsibility to brothers and sisters. Brothers who are considered to be responsible brothers it is rather irresponsible not to answer questions.

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

I agree. We are all asked to test the spirits, and prove by testing what the will of the Lord is. And, the leading ones bear the greatest responsibility in that.

We also need to be like the Berean believers who looked into scripture to see if these things be so.

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

One sees this, where children want to honour their parents and be obedient and live peacefully, yet find the local churches intolerable. The parents/family are "Sold Out" for the local churches of Witness Lee, and the unhappy poster just wants "Out", like, right now. And if that person is financially independent, they can usually move on. As the saying goes, "The Lord's recovery isn't for everyone."

But for those aged 15 - 22, it's often not as clear-cut. But I think that separation is possible if one does it by manageable degrees. If in group housing, get a dorm room next semester (group housing was big in my college). Or, go to a school where the LC isn't as prevalent... geographical relocation is a big one! Next, focus on doing well in studies. One can't go to every training, every conference, every meeting -- "Sorry, big exam tomorrow!!" Then use that degree or skill to get a job that can sustain a lifestyle financially. Little by little, separate from the local church without activating their rage/persecution complex. It just takes patience and time, a persistent effort, and common sense.

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

To add to those comments, it's probably worth considering what you're going into, instead of just on what you're leaving. In my case, clueless as I was, I got right into a group that was even more religiously legalistic. I've told the story before, so won't elaborate, but suffice it to say that I left that one even more frustrated than when leaving the local church.

In retrospect, the reason was simple: I had no purpose nor meaning to my life beyond what someone supplied me externally. I was ripe for anyone to come along and put "their" purpose on me. Or, barring that, to drift into the sensuality and empty pleasure-seeking of the world. It took a while, but one day, by chance or luck or God's mercy, I figured out my purpose, of why I should get out of bed every morning and face the new day. As Robert Frost wrote, "that made all the difference."

Getting "tea leaves are meant to go into water" or "gloves are made in the shape of a hand" or someone's homespun religion or philosophy didn't work. I don't need Witness Lee's purpose for my life, but I needed to know my purpose, why was I here? What was I going to do with my life? Nobody else can answer those questions for me, and I can't answer them for others. But in the words of Jesus, if first you seek, then you'll find... i.e., no seeking, no finding.

Don't just "run away" from the local church, but allow yourself the necessary luxury of searching the realm of possible state spaces that are available. Find your own specific purpose and everything will follow. And when you know, you know. That's what's so cool about it. Nobody needs to say 'this is it' - you'll know. In my case it was a long frustrating road. But I daresay it was longer because I didn't make a conscious effort to use the tools given me, and the opportunities around me, to explore the realms of the possible. I just drifted in apathy, waiting for some charlatan like Lee to come in and foist his dreams on me. It was a rough road, I'll tell you! But one day, I figured out why I'm here, and everything changed. It was like, -- flash -- the world suddenly had meaning. Incredible.

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

A gradual transition may be best, but it is probably inevitable to get pushback. You don't simply walk away from The Recovery, especially if you were born into it. The ones who can leave quietly without disturbance are the ones who were never really into it. They weren't "good material," so no one bats an eye at their departure. No, it's the ones who have invested and "tasted" and really tried to give themselves to it.

Or the children they bear.

I was part of the children's ministry. "What a shame," they would say, "that half of our church kids leave The Lord's Recovery. We need to do something. We need to cherish them more. We need to get them open to the ministry. The families are primarily responsible for this. The mothers and fathers."

I'm certain you can see why fathers and mothers in this denomination cannot simply let their children go, especially if they are full-timers or elders or some other leading ones. What a stain it would be on their reputation and on their locality. What a blot it is on the great "Ministry of the Age," and "The Lord's Recovery" which is supposed to be separate from and above the "deformed," "degraded," "devilish," and "satanic" denominations.

I feel blessed, then, when I left The Lord's Recovery. There was a church in the area with whom I became acquainted at around the same time I encountered The Recovery, and it never gave me anywhere near the multitude of red flags that The Local Churches did. Shortly before I left Lee's sect, I was already beginning to reconnect with some old friends there, and that made the transition all the easier for me. Still incredibly painful for sure, but that church was, and is, a haven for me and my family. The Lord has been extremely merciful and gracious with me.

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

I’ve said it many times. The Christian life is not about finding the right church…the right place. It’s about finding and knowing the one who died for you. It’s about trusting him and obeying him. Talk to him. Tell him you’re willing to go or stay, nevertheless his will. Tell him what you want then leave it to him to provide what he wills in his time. Finding a church, even “the best” church, will never measure up to knowing him.

Nell

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

I understand that one needs to center their life on Christ first and foremost, as loving God is the first and greatest command, but seeking out the brothers and sisters is good and healthy, too. Of course one may need time to heal from a place like The Lord's Recovery and should spend the time to get into the scriptures and seek the Lord personally so that they can become mature and learn to discern between good and evil, but that does not mean that trying finding a good or at least decent assembly should be thrown out the window entirely.

That the Christian life entails knowing the Christ and that the Christian life entails knowing the body of Christ, despite Witness Lee's perversions on the matter, are not mutually exclusive.

But something has come to my mind, and that is that perhaps someone may not be ready to leave, and it may not be best to try and rip themselves away yet. After all, Joseph was trapped in Egypt for many years as a prisoner and later a slave. Because of this, I would agree with Nell in saying that one should take their desires to the Lord first and foremost.

I was in it for nine years, and my questionings and struggles really began in earnest in the last three years. I spent much time taking it to the Lord in prayer and fellowshipping with my family about it. Then something quite dramatic happened and it was clear that it was time to move. Perhaps it will not be so dramatic for others, but nonetheless I make my point by saying it took much time of earnest prayer and fellowship.

Unless there is immediate danger or ongoing abuse, one should not necessarily be so hasty to cut and run, especially if they are minors who are financially and legally dependent on their parents, and one should not necessarily be so eager to give themselves blindly and wholeheartedly to the first assembly they come across.

Re: LC Raised Child - Spiritual warfare in household (Help!)
 

OK, guys. Please take your conversation/s to PM or take a break from posting for a few days. It seems that there is a "failure to communicate".

Robert, check your spelling before posting. You're making a lot of typos.

Guys, read Post #1 again. Most of this conversation is off topic. So clean it up.

Thanks--
Nell
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