Re: Politics and the Church
 

Some of the posters here spent so much time in that hot-bed-radical-south-Florida-version of the LCM under Mel Porter that can't conceive of other Christians holding diverse points of view. :rollingeyesfrown:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Cheer up bro!

I don't think you are the most exclusive.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Of course I see thru the hypocrisy. I'm not blind. Just as I see thru the hypocrisy of this Trump admin.

And the population of the whole state of Ky is only 4 million. So Ky is not even close to being blameable for this mess. Although, we do have a few hotspot pollution centers in the state ; one chemical company right here in town, that stinks ; and a city I grew up in, with industries, that's been sued by counties up wind for causing higher cancer rates.

These kinds of pollution matters don't care about political parties, they'll make conservatives and liberals sick alike.

I don't know why pollution of our air, water, and food, is a political matter. Both liberals and conservatives depend on them being clean and wholesome.

And yes it's irksome to hear some kale eating liberals spouting environment, environment, environment, while flying around in private jets, to preach to me about cutting greenhouse gases.

If they really practiced what they are preaching with the same zeal, then they'd be living off the gird.

But then we have ones like Wendell Berry, a good ol' Ky boy, that pretty much lives what he preaches concerning the environment.

I consider that I have a personal vested interest in the environment, in clean air, water, and food. I'm for anyone that is concerned about them. And I don't care if they identify as liberal or conservative.

I just don't think that crapping in our nest is a good idea ... whether it's liberal fecal matter, or conservative.

And I've noticed that no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room, that, it's the heat of the loins that's causing global warming ... and both conservatives and liberals are to blame for it.

Tho I do have to point out that Trump's appointment to head up Title X family planning for our nation's poor, Teresa Manning, is a contraception skeptic.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I was disappointed that so many Evangelical Christians, who consider themselves to be the only true Christians voted for the flagrantly immoral Donald Trump. But, I have heard a number of them say, that they only did it because they saw him as the lesser evil when compared with Hilary Clinton. That makes their choice a little more understandable to me. Especially since many of them watch Fox News 24/7 where Hilary Clinton has been demonized for years. Plus, maybe they are fans of Trump from The Apprentice where he popularized his image for mass consumption. Can we agree that manipulation of the sheeple by the media circus is disgusting? Trump played the populace brilliantly from the get-go planting in our brains the image of himself coming down the escalator like a god descending from the clouds to intercourse with we the mere mortal earthing voter/citizens. Hallelujah! Thank you Trumpus!, not.:rolleyes:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Yup one good thing about the LC is you can't call us liberals. Fundamentalism all the way! I'm so touched you would make a positive comment about the LC it's almost making me want to invite you for a potluck dinner!

Re: Politics and the Church
 

ZNP ain't evangelical. He believe in EVILution. Kidding.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Trump is God's chosen and will solve all the problems. That's really all that counts. Don't you follow the prophecies on charisma magazine? Seriously, Trump does pray. So he's doing something right. He prayed for the Apprentice TV ratings. Politics, it's just a game. President is just a job that has to be filled by someone. Who that someone is doesn't change things too much. The debt clock is still ticking. NK still wants to blow up Washington, and Assange is still in London. In these moments it's good to read about the Universality and Centrality of Christ, by W. Lee. And remember the all-inclusive processed and consummated Triune God is in control.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I look at it differently. I figure the best thing that could possibly have happened to Clinton was to run against Trump. If she can't beat that guy then she should not be president. If you told me she was going to run against Trump and to put a cherry on top he would insult Gold Star parents coming out of the convention and just to make sure there is no way you could lose the Billy Bush tape would also be released. If she were honest she would realize she was given a gift in running against trump, they put whipped cream on that gift with his insults of various war heroes and they put a cherry on top with his very clear admittance of sexual misconduct and deviant behavior.

But instead she want to blame her "enemies". She is her biggest enemy.

Comey had no affect on me and Putin didn't either. Putting classified emails on her private server to get around freedom of information, and using her position at the State department to enrich her self through her foundation. Those are the two reasons I would not, under any circumstances vote for her.

To me this last election was like going to a restaurant during a blackout and they say "look, this chicken has been out for a few days and smells bad" the other choice is this cole slaw made with mayo that has also been out for a few days and smells bad. Which one do you want?

I chose to fast.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

You better take that back! I believe in Jesus.

Evolution is simply another example of clueless scientists stealing from the Bible and trying to get credit for it because they lack any creativity. Darwin's crime is not blasphemy, in fact I wouldn't even blame him for plagiarism. His crime is not giving credit to the Bible for his ideas.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Yeah Zeek, read "the all inclusive processed and consummated Triune God" by WL and chill out.:hysterical:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I "fasted" during the primary, but that was also for another reason. But not against Hillary. She was far too scary.

I agree Trump did and said stupid things. Ole zeek still has no clue why Trump won and Hillary lost. Talk about stupid -- when Trump said McCain was not a war hero because he prefers soldiers who did not get caught. What? McCain was a pilot shot down, his dad was a distinguished admiral, and he was tortured in prison for years. Now I don't really care for all McCain's decisions -- like dumping his wife after coming home -- and his policies -- like not opposing abortion -- but who would dare say he was not a hero?

Then Trump never learned a thing, and went after that gold star Muslim family that lost their son in the war. Talk about stupid! Perhaps Bannon and Conway talked some sense into him.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

People are fed up with Washington insider politics as usual. Trump ran against that. That's basically why he won and why Sanders would have been more effective against him than Clinton.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

That's just your speculation.

I have prolly heard a dozen excuses for Hillary, none of which owned up to her being crooked, incompetent, and connected with too many dead people.

Regardless of Bernie's popularity, he still ran as a socialist against basically a populist outsider. After 8 years of Obama, the country was moving right, as evidenced by Republican gains since 2010.

Since the Republican congress can't work together, watch for the country to move left again in 2018.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Not just that. As much as he comes across as an idiot, he also comes across as "frank", to the point.

The reason the Billy Bush thing didn't destroy him is that he doesn't obfuscate the way politicians do. The coverup is often bigger than the crime. There is no cover up, he simply refuses to give us his tax return.

Also, he comes across as someone who might be able to bring jobs back.

Remember, this was the least popular president ever, received 3 million votes less than the loser. This was not a Ronald Reagan victory. There is no indication that those who voted for him did so for any other reason than that they hoped he might be better.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Regarding popularity, can we ever believe the polls again?

Regarding votes, that's like the Super Bowl loser declaring victory because their team amassed more yards -- a totally different game with a totally different strategy.

How do we know whether 3 million solid Blue State Republicans just stayed home because their votes were meaningless? My brother lives in Sacramento, CA and feels voting there has basically become a waste of time for conservatives.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

No kidding?! I just come here for arrogance therapy.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I do think you could use some arrogance therapy. You came to the right place.

Is that like anger management?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

There is no doubt that one of the by products of the Electoral college is that you have "blue states" and "red states" and this reduces the number of voters. If you know how the state is going to vote then your vote is meaningless.

The candidates know this as well and only campaign in swing states. Candidates deemphasize 40 states.

Another very negative impact of this are policies that do not make sense, but one or two states like them, hence they are untouchable.

So then it is anti democratic and promotes policies that are not advantageous for the majority.

Ultimately this results in a feeling of disenfranchisement. People who aren't involved in the process and don't feel like this government represents them.

A step halfway towards full democracy is to only award 100% of electoral votes if the person wins by 10% or more. Less than that you divide the electoral votes proportionally.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I come here to learn patience. Also this forces me to pray for wisdom, another benefit of this forum.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

blah blah blah . . . .

In other words, you want to take a scenario that you find compelling and work hard to string a number of passages together and force them to be a unit that makes your case.

They call that eisegesis, "an interpretation, especially of Scripture, that expresses the interpreter's own ideas, bias, or the like, rather than the meaning of the text."

Consistent with so many other rabbit trails you have gallivanted along.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Why do we think that Trump is God's chosen? Because God is sovereign?

If so, they does that mean that God thought 8 years of Obama was a good thing? If so then we have to rethink the prior 8 years.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I think you have something in your eye. Would you like me to remove it? Where did I put that icepick? :rolleyes:

Right, arrogance management. It's an Alt Views thing.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Alt Views--it's transformational!

Re: Politics and the Church
 

The electoral college was a compromise. The original plan was to have our reps pick a Prez. You would have really hated that program. Remember our history -- we were initially a collection of STATES joined for a common purpose. The US Gov't was never supposed to be big, rather a protection of national defense. The Founders would be shocked at the outcome we now have.

The USA is not a democracy. It is a republic of laws. Have you forgotten? The smaller states will NEVER give up the electoral college system. Like it or not, it's here to stay.

Another crazy part of the election process is the power given to Iowa. It all but guarantees that we'll be burning corn in our engines. Totally stupid idea! There is nothing "renewable" about corn ethanol. Take away the petrochemical fertilizers and Monsanto's GMO corn, and nothing else could grow in Iowa.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

It's just that Evangelicalism and 7 day Creation usually go hand in hand, like the words Ken and Ham. So Awareness's assessment of you being the only evangelical he knows who doesn't support Trump, might be a misinterpretation on his part about what Evangelicals believe.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

It was you who brought up "arrogance therapy" not me. Perhaps you happened to look in the mirror, didn't like what you saw, and then smashed it with that ice pick! :blahblah:

And, btw, who has icepicks in Florida? Aren't you the one who preaches hellfire and global warming? :littledevil:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

God is good and God is good all the time. So yes. 8 years of Obama was good. Regardless of who is in power, we have to pray for the leaders. Do we have to like them or agree with everything they do. No.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Don't you mean "Love Feast?" Or is it called potluck now?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I don't know about zeek. But screw arrogance therapy. I'M NOT ARROGANT !!!

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

And that not only goes for Trump, but for Obama, Bush, Clinton, and all the rest.

I'm on a prophecy forum and they are saying Trump is a Cyrus the Great. He said he'd move the embassy in Israel to Jerusalem. They believe he will make for the rebuilding of the temple, that must happen for Jesus to return.

Who knows. These rapture nuts might be wrong. Trump could be Nebuchadnezzar.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

zeek dealing in arrogance therapy, and Assange intelligence porn. :rollingeyesfrown:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

You'll just have to wait and see.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Yes, only around 85% of evangelicals supported Trump. So 15% didn't. Bro ZNP might be in the 15%. But then, it sounds like even he voted for Trump.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Either. But you really do have to watch those crab cakes.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Well, America probably has been Babylon the Great for some time now. The political arm of the Roman Empire.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I have already stated plainly that I did not vote for president, I opted to not vote. I have also repeated this. If 20 million others who didn't like the person they voted for did that as well it would have forced a bigger political movement than what we are seeing now.

So how could it possibly sound like "he voted for Trump"?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Sorry about that.

I think the non-voters should be counted ; as those that disbelieve in the choices, or as those that are disenchanted with the political system. Their voices, or lack thereof, should be considered and factored.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

A good friend of mine wrote in "John Kasich" for President. Coming from a crucial swing state, his vote, in effect, helped Hillary, even though he hated to see her win.

When it comes to voting, we should not vote with their hearts, rather with our minds.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Yes, I completely disagree with those who say you are obligated to vote. If we had only had 20 million people vote in the last election (the amount that probably felt very strongly for one or the other candidate) the entire process would have been invalidated. It would have been pointless to claim who got the most votes or who got the most electoral college votes. It would be like a Superbowl that no one watched or turned on. That makes a very loud statement of disapproval of the entire system.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

In my mind I did not want either candidate to claim a "mandate".

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Regardless of who wins, a "mandate" will be claimed, even if it's by a hanging chad.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I'm not sure I can agree. If one side tries to play fair, and the other side cheats, then the good guys lose.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

If you have 200 million registered voters, and 100 million voted in the last election and 40 million vote in this election you can claim whatever you want, every politician knows you don't have a mandate and will act accordingly.

When Reagan won by an overwhelming majority everyone feared his mandate. No one fears Trump's "mandate".

Re: Politics and the Church
 

There were no "good guys". It was guaranteed that the "bad guys" were going to win, I just wanted that to be an empty victory.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Finally something that we can at least partly agree on.

We get what we get and we are charged to pray for all of them.

What we may not agree on is whether God is specifically deciding who will be president (at least in all cases). And if I am right on this (that part of God's sovereignty is exercised in restraint as man exercises his free will) and he might only sometimes direct things, then I cannot say that which ones are which and decide that God would vote Republican, or Democrat. It is clear that if he is actively sovereign in all of it that God does not simply "vote Republican" because we have gotten some that are very "not Republican." And I am not sure what to say about the present Republican (if he really is one).

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Hey, I am very evangelical and don't support Trump (in the sense that I wish he didn't get his way too much). And I don't simply believe in a 7-day creation (or actually 6-day), and am not that enamored with many of the modern apologists, including Mr. Ham.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I agree that God either puts the leadership in place directly, or He allows it. But pragmatically, we cannot change it, so we have to do the best we can with what we got. What we could do is turn all of the criticisms directed at Trump into a prayer for him about those shortcomings, realizing that God's true purpose in this is to spread the gospel.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Heard a podcast yesterday that had ideas for improving the election outcomes.

Debates with no one in the room so that audience applause or boos do not affect the TV audience more than the things said.

Possibly requiring that everyone who can vote be required to show up at the polls even if they don't want to vote. (Australia actually does this.)

A lot of others.

One of the things that was pointed to as the most problematic in the U.S. is that the focus during campaigns is so much on what are truly marginal but hot-button issues and the result has been the polarization of the parties. The vast middle-ground is not even thought about. They have many normal issues that are worthy of discussion, but since there is no evidence that they are even listened to, and they are not necessarily in sync with the extremes (in terms of the hot-button issues), they just stay home. And we get gridlock in a way that hasn't been seen since the late 1800s.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Jesus is Lord. The real leadership is in place. The NT does not in any way, shape or form suggest that there is a path for salvation apart from Him and that includes climate change legislation, etc. Because of that WN erroneously teaches that Christians should not be involved in the political process (Post #1).

I see this differently. Apart from the Lord we can do nothing. But if Jesus is one with you then I see no reason why you can't "preach the good news" to the issues. After all the Lord gave us talents to invest and we have been told to go out into the entire world, surely that includes the political arena as well, and preach the gospel. And, He promised to be with us to the end of days.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I agree bro Ohio. Like the pubbies blocking Obama's supreme court appointee, and then ramming down our throats Gorsuch. They didn't play fair. Or is it okay when pubbies don't play fair?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Who the president is has nothing to do with spreading the gospel.

And if all we have is prayer we're in trouble.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Gorsuch is benign. Never hurt a soul. You won't even get a sore throat. Just drink some green tea and get some rest. You'll feel fine in the morning. :)

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Emperor Constantine would disagree with you.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

That's about involvement. I'm talking about prayer. Whatever decisions Trump makes affects where, when, and how the gospel is spread around the world. Christianity flourished under Constantine. Trump is more powerful than Constantine. I'm not disagreeing with you. I think we are talking about different aspects.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

The bipolar party system has split in such a way that there is little middle ground. This is the system that gave us Clinton and Trump as the only realistic options for POTUS in 2016. That fact alone should be enough to warrant radical rethinking and reform of the system.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Could have been worse. The establishment wanted to give us Bush and Clinton in 2016.

How could you ever vote for another Democrat after you watched what the DNC did to you and Bernie?

Just recently the DNC chair Perez just excluded me and every other Pro-Life from his party. I can't ever vote for another Democrat. :sad: . :frown5: . :mad3:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

"Christianity flourished under Constantine"? I assume you are referring to man made religion and not the Body of Christ.

"Trump is more powerful than Constantine" -- How? How is someone in a government with the checks and balances of our constitution and the scrutiny of our press, in a world where we understand "freedom of speech" and "freedom of the press" to be our right, how is he more powerful than Constantine? Constantine was an emperor of the only superpower, Trump has to deal with other powers like China, Russia, Japan, Europe, India, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I would rather had any of the governors, including Bush, over Trump. I even liked Rubio much more, though he did seem a little short on the experience side (no pun intended). Couldn't put support behind either of my Texas candidates. Just not fit for the task.

We need some moderates. That means either both parties climb down off of the wall at the boundaries of the extremes, or there needs to be a group of significance that represents the middle and forces a different kind of result.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I agree. Although Jeb is more of an autocrat at heart than you might think, he is not the dictator Trump would like to be.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

A reasonable voice:"So, it is up to the public to quarantine this presidency by insistently communicating to its elected representatives a steady, rational fear of this man whose combination of impulsivity and credulity render him uniquely unfit to take the nation into a military conflict." http://www.grandforksherald.com/opin...w-what-it-know

Re: Politics and the Church
 

A third Bush presidency? Dynasty? Royalty?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

The left, with Schumer, Pelosi, and the Press, will demonize ANY Republican, so we have no idea what a moderate would look like.

I thought Dubya, McCain, and Romney were fairly moderate.

I agree with you that Governors are far better suited for the task, except for pseudo-Christian Jimmy Carter. The problem, however, is that none of them would be willing to go thru what Trump is enduring in order to shake up Washington.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

The internet and many of the social media tools give the electorate a much more powerful voice than they had at the time of the founding fathers. Trump is ideal in motivating these people to be vocal.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

No more Bush's.

Hey ZNP, what you think of "common core?"

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Trump seems, at heart, to be motivated, not by dictator power, but the reversal of Obama's policies, plain and simple. And, I suppose, Obama asked for it, by going after him back on that WHCDinner in 2011.

Trump is not the kind of person that takes to open humiliation by the Obama bully pulpit in front of hundreds.

Dictator? Now we find out that Obama Admin. was spying on Rand Paul too! Just the tip of the iceberg. Had we a decent FBI director, these hoodlums would all be in jail.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

A song for you ZNP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep9Vzb6R_58

Re: Politics and the Church
 

It has had a negligible effect on the science curriculum.

Originally we had to prepare our students to write argumentative essays and the outcome was 20% of the rating for every teacher. I felt that being able to write an argumentative essay was a worthy goal but that it was unreasonable to rate every teacher on this outcome. The union agreed and starting this year the law was changed in NY. This year 50% of my rating is based on the State Regents exam at the end of the year in my subject area. I am quite happy about that as my rating on the exam will very likely be a full score (20/20) which is highly effective. Last year we had 3 teachers in my school get 18/20.

However we still have the argumentative essay as a rating for teachers who are not teaching a class that results in a State exam.

As for common core Algebra I don't know enough to say what I think.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Huh?

Trump is basically leading the "silent majority?"

The opposition party controls the press.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Look at the multitude of protests organized via Facebook, twitter, and other forms of social media.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I'm looking at them -- check out UC Berkeley, that bastion of free speech, using social media to organize militant protests.

Be honest here -- far more young Blue State millennial liberals are on social media than Red State conservatives. Take me for example, and many of my friends too, I have no presence on social media.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Both I guess.

Territory wise, the USA is larger than the Roman Empire. Population too. Militarily, the USA is more powerful than the ancient Roman Empire. Financially, USA is richer than the ancient Roman Empire.

Roman military spending was 2.5% of the empire's GDP. USA is what now, 3-4%?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Trump does not "rule" over the territory of the US as Constantine did. He is not an emperor. He is not a Caesar. The fact that the US is more powerful than the ancient Roman empire is obvious to all. That was not your statement.

I would like to think that our President does not have the power of the ancient emperors because of our constitution. Watergate resulting in Nixon's resignation is the evidence of this. It would be laughable to think such a scandal would bring down a Caesar.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Militarily he has more power than Constantine. The constitution does not apply to other countries, he could attack Syria at will.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

By your standard, Kim in NK has more power and influence than Constantine, Caesar, Hitler, Mao, etc.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

This just in.

Jared Kushner is offering in Beijing and Shanghai that if Chinese investors invest $500,000 in his Kushner Jersey real estate business they can get a residency card. Can we say Emoluments Clause?

One more piece of evidence for Los Angeles to push for a Trump impeachment.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

He has a 1 million strong standing army, which is why the USA is afraid of him. So yes, he's right up there.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Well I guess this defines your "Trump is more powerful than Constantine" comment. If you have nuclear bomb and might commit suicide similar to Samson, then that makes you powerful in Evangelical's definition.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

What is your definition of powerful then? Trump has been showing off the military hardware of the US to demonstrate the power of the US.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Matthew 18 explains who is the greatest in the kingdom, I would defer to that chapter.

Being able to kill does not make you powerful, being able to raise you from the dead, that is real power.

Being able to stir up a war does not make you powerful, being able to make peace and reconcile the warring parties, that is true power.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

And this is worse than Obama's use of the latest drones?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

For all the nonsense in Star Wars, Yoda got something right:

"War not make one great. "

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Why does the USA have weapons then, and nukes. Why does it have so many guns. Take them all away, let's see the "real power" you speak of. Give everyone a trumpet and tell them to march around North Korea 7 times. If only America was Israel. Unlike Israel, the USA's "trust in God" is hidden behind the largest and most powerful military in the world, and one of the largest nuclear arsenals, just in case God does not show up.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

There are many kinds of power. A locomotive can have the power to pull thousands of tons of train. That is power.

A nuclear bomb has the power to kill many people.

The resurrection has the power to bring in a new creation.

But you didn't say that the US was more powerful than the Roman Empire, you said that Trump was more powerful than Constantine.

Does Trump have the "power" to obliterate at will? I don't believe so. I believe we have many checks and balances before a president could push the button (except in self defense). But even in self defense Trump would give the order which would then have to be carried out by ranking officers.

I don't believe that Constantine was constrained nearly as much as Trump is. He may not have had nuclear bombs yet he may have killed more people.

So if you are measuring "power" in the number you can kill, potentially Trump can kill more, but realistically, practically, factually Constantine killed more. It is extremely hypothetical to think that Trump, on his own, could decide to nuke another country.

No one who took issue with your comment doubts that the US with a nuclear arsenal has the potential to destroy more people and material than the Roman Empire. We took issue with the comment that Trump was more powerful than a dictator as though the US constitution and all the checks and balances don't apply to him.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

If the USA were not a strong country, fighting for the freedoms of others around the world, then you and your country would have no freedoms whatsoever. Ever think of that?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Your post here is way more common sense than EvanGelly can handle in one sitting.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I agree and I note you define a "strong country" as one that has a powerful military, as I do.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I am surprised that you and Ohio don't know very much about how this all works under your dictator Trump. Yes Trump has that power to obliterate at will, the Commander in Chief has that ability.

Now they’re his. When Trump takes office in January, he will have sole authority over more than 7,000 warheads. There is no failsafe. The whole point of U.S. nuclear weapons control is to make sure that the president — and only the president — can use them if and whenever he decides to do so.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...=.b9dba136a1b0


Trump does not need approval to fire Nukes. No checks and balances stopped Trump firing 59 cruise missiles into Syria, or stopping Obama firing missiles from UAVs in other sovereign countries. The President has to go to Congress only if there is a declaration of war. It's rare for a President to go to Congress before military action is taken.

Trump is more powerful than Constantine because Constantine could only dream of having the power to send 59 cruise missiles or a nuke into another country at will while having dinner with a Chinese president, all without Congressional, or even UN approval.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Well this "non-American" is explaining to you how things really work in your own country. Embarrassing.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Yoda right something got. But if Trump fails to live up to his hype about being great he's gonna need a war to regain his greatness. So to him war will make one great ... him. And that's the most important thing to Trump. Look for WWIII. It's necessary to make Trump great.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Your boy Obama had the same "power," yet I never heard you express any concerns.

Putin has even more "power" in his arsenal (remember that the US unilaterally disarmed during the last 8 years) and you kept your mouth silent. Why is that?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

You liberals will never get it.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

So is that what made FDR so great?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Because Obama and Putin weren't/aren't provoking Kim King Kong.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Spoken like someone who is not a US citizen.

When asked if he approved of the missile strike it was very clear from his response that he had merely given the military approval to do what was necessary. He didn't plan the strike, give the order for the strike, or fire the missiles. Yes, technically he could have, but there are many layers in our government, and as you can see our news reports to the entire world everything that happens, unlike ancient Rome.

Now if Trump were to go off the rails and order a nuclear strike there would be a general who would give the order to fire those missiles, which order would then be carried out by all of the subordinate officers.

In the US, unlike ancient Rome, refusing an order from the President is not seen as treasonous (ask Sally Yates), especially a bogus order to start a nuclear war. In the past people were trained to obey authority, in our country ever since JFK assassination we have been trained more and more to question and be suspicious of authority.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Was FDR claiming to make everything great?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

What? Invading the Ukraine was not provocative?

Enabling N. Korea to become a nuclear power is fine?

This is idiotic.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Trump -- make america great again

FDR -- Happy days are here again

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Provoking?

He (and Iran too with our $billions) has been developing nukes and ballistic missiles while Obama played golf with rock stars and movie stars.

Read this article before you blame Trump -- Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton Are Responsible for North Korea’s Nukes

Re: Politics and the Church
 

That defines liberal progressive thinking.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

It's just incredible to see how the liberal media makes their heads explode with fear. They have taken fearmongering into the 21st century. We got liberals on this forum that scoff at the idea of a future Armageddon, based on biblical prophecy, and now all of a sudden they have all become "believers", claiming Trump will start WWIII.

When it comes to decisions, Trump is a careful and strategic planner. How else does one become so successful? He is a real patriot first, and not a One World Order guy like our last 4 presidents. Yet he is portrayed by the Press as flaky, impulsive, and whimsical as Kim in NK.

It's just amazing to me to see how little negative press that George Soros gets. Here is a wealthy genius hell-bent on taking down all western democracies. The guy is famous for destroying the British pound and the Bank of England. He is funding every liberal activist group out there.

If liberals had a brain, they would know who to fear and who not to fear. Here read this -- Top 10 Reasons George Soros Is Dangerous

Re: Politics and the Church
 

It seems this thread has become too tame, so let's include a discussion on the recent firing of Comey.

I find it interesting that after being advised that Flynn has been compromised by the Russians Trump fires the woman who told him this a few days later, but takes close to a month to fire Flynn.

Now compare that to firing Comey the same day it comes out in the testimony that he might have misspoke about the email incident. On the surface it seems like a reasonable mistake, thousands of emails were forwarded, it may have seemed from his original testimony that this was done manually, but the issue is that it was done. Hard to know who was at fault for this misunderstanding or even how serious it is, if it is even serious. But to instantly fire him suggests to me this is merely a contrived excuse and not the real reason.

I have to wonder if anyone who touches this question of collusion between Russia and the Trump administration does so knowing that they will be terminated at the first opportunity.

On the other hand if it really is the reason then wow, it really shows how upset Trump is that he won the election.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Trump cannot deflect the appearance that he fired Comey because he is investigating Trump campaign's collusion with Russia. His action parallels Nixon firing Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox who was investigating the Watergate break-in. Now Congress must appoint an a special prosecutor to lead an independent investigation into the Russian ties to the Trump campaign.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

The appearance is that Trump fired Sally Yates, Flynn and Comey because of this investigation and the potential to drag him down.

It must be a nice world these billionaires live in where they get to appoint the person who is going to oversee the investigation of them.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Director Comey should have been fired last year. His own agency lost confidence in him. His actions violated his authority.

Drain the swamp!

Btw, have you forgotten all the calls for his resignation by the Democrats?

I guess this means that Trump has finally succumbed to Democratic pressure.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Of course the president did not fire the missiles himself. What a silly thing to say. He gives the orders. Same with any leader, they give orders, others follow. But what if that person firing the missile was a Trump supporter and believed everything Trump said? Your argument is shot to pieces.

And why did Trump's presidency get people worried about his new found power?

see

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/s...odes.html?_r=2


Some scholars (and Wikipedia entries) insist that a system of checks and balances puts the secretary of defense in the decision loop. But Bruce G. Blair, a research scholar at Princeton University who as an Air Force officer would have launched a nuclear missile if an order had come from the president, said that rule applied in the silos but not at the top of the command chain.

“There’s nothing the secretary of defense can do,” Dr. Blair, who wrote a book on nuclear command and control, said in an interview. “He has no authority to refuse or disobey that order.”



Your argument fails because ancient Rome also had checks and balances in their power structure.

https://www.reference.com/history/ch...f9ac785247b74a

The Roman Republic had several items in place to keep any one part of the government from having all the power, including a group of men called tribunes who could veto select items and completely stop acts of administration, limited terms and specific requirements for members in order to move up in the government. Many governments in the modern world are based, at least in part, on the model of the Roman Republic, including the United States.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-man_rule
"The two-man rule only applies in the missile silos and submarines; there is no check on the president's sole authority to order a nuclear launch"

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Yes because America bombed their poor country to pieces during the Korean War.

You need to read this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.79cb01fac346

like most Americans, educate yourself about your own country.

Although the ferocity of the bombing was criticized as racist and unjustified elsewhere in the world, it was never a big story back home.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

The firing of Comey is transparently in service of stopping his investigation of Trump's collusion with Russia. Trump must have received intelligence to the effect that Comey was going to bring him down or he would not have taken this desperate step. Do you really think Comey will go away quietly? The Trump administration merely hopes to discredit him before he shares what he has turned up in his investigation of Trump's​ campaign.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Are you kidding? The Roman Republic ended when the Roman Empire was established with the first emperor.

Please stop trying to educate us, it is painful.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Really? I think what they hope to do is appoint the person in charge of the investigation, a person that would be beholden to him, perhaps compromised. Maybe Putin could make some suggestions.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

We bombed their country protecting the democracy in South Korea from their invasion.

And you expect me to read and believe an article at WaPo?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

:hysterical: Too funny!!!! :hysterical:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

You mean .."Carpet bombed and napalmed the civilian population of their country... That does not give you the right to take the high moral ground. And America really has no business being on China's doorstep in the pacific.
Imagine how better you would be if all that military money was spent on infrastructure, healthcare etc. You got that big nuclear fleet off the coast of NK costing so many million per day just to satisfy Trump's ego.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

And what did your country do to protect innocent South Korean civilians from Mao and the Communists?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

ahh you win. I can't say we did more than you did in carpet bombing and napalming the civilians. Anyhow Trump is doing the opposite of what he said he would do and not get so involved in wars.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Trump can appoint the new FBI director, but he doesn't get to appoint the special prosecutor, bro. That's up to the Senate, and already several powerful Republican Senators the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Richard M. Burr of North Carolina, and John McCain are calling “for a special congressional committee to investigate Russia’s interference in the 2016 election.”

Jeff Sessions recused himself from the Russia inquiry and now he calls for Pres. to fire Comey. Nothing suspicious about that, right? ;)

Re: Politics and the Church
 

No, it was Asst. A. G. Rosenstein that called for Comey's removal.

Had Trump's selections been more quickly approved by the Senate, Comey would have been removed much earlier.

Democrats have far more to fear than the Republicans here, but, of course, you would never know that watching mainstream media.

Play that clip again of Schumer calling for Comey's removal!

Re: Politics and the Church
 

We don't have the right to be on China's doorstep? You mean Taiwan, Japan and S. Korea? I bet they love being called "China's doorstep" and I bet they really love being told by you they don't have the right to be allies with the US.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Even so, the special prosecutor will still report to the head of the FBI, bro.

As for Jeff Sessions he recused himself because of his contacts with Russia, perhaps he also would be investigated and even charged. So it is really interesting to know that the guy who might be investigated still has the authority to recommend that the man heading up the investigation be fired.

This is the most interesting presidency by far, wouldn't it be ironic if after all of these "you're fired!" episodes it concludes with the President being fired?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Not according to this report:

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-w...d-trump-2017-5

They report it was both Rosenstein and Sessions.

Surely you are not defending Trump firing someone who is the midst of investigating his administration? The only precedent for this is Nixon's firing Cox.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Perhaps you are right, the best way for Trump to get people to stop obsessing about his ties with Russia would be to start a nuclear war with N. Korea and China.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

"While I greatly appreciate you informing me, on three separate occasions, that I am not under investigation, I nevertheless concur with the judgment of the Department of Justice that you are not able to effectively lead the bureau." Trump

I love this quote, for those of you who thought Trump fired Comey because he was investigating Trump's connections to Russia this should clear that up :hysterical:

Also for those who think it is unethical to fire the person heading up an investigation of your campaign's possible collusion with Russia, once again that should clear this up :hysterical:

Nope, it is very clear from Trump's note that Comey was fired because he was not nice to Hillary Clinton.:hysterical:

On a more serious side this confession by Trump of ethics violations should kick off his impeachment hearings.

Has Pence commented yet?

I suppose Bill Clinton will comment on the irony of this quote. This stuff is really entertaining.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

After months of this bogus investigation, they surely would have found some evidence to support the "crimes" he was charged with by former Obama operatives. With any legitimate investigation, the crimes are based on evidence. So many things here are backwards and upside down, yet mainstream media "credits" Trump for the inversions.

Regarding the Clinton's and the Obama Admin, however, we already know much of the evidence for crimes they have never been charged with.

Also, how do you think top secret info landed on the "lap top" of your former congressman, a known, yet unindicted, pervert, who also might have been your next mayor? That warrants an "OMG."

Has not Comey unofficially created a two-tiered justice system? One for rich and connected Democrats (and this list is incredibly long and growing,) and one for the rest of Americans, including Republicans like General Petraeus and Scooter Libby? This is why Comey was fired. He "politicized" the FBI, code words for "corrupted." Just another Obama appointed political hack.

Liberals stress out over potential Russian hacking influence in our Presidential elections, but what they should really worry about is the intelligence community of a sitting President influencing elections, "that is a bombshell" -- paraphrased from Senator Rand Paul this morning.

It's too bad that former acting director of the FBI, Mark Guiliano, retired last year. Unlike McCabe, he was "baggage free, a thoroughly competent and upright investigator. He also graduated with my brother from my high school in Cleveland.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I have already said that the emails arriving on his laptop, whether sent manually or automatically, is not very different. Yet that was the cause for firing Comey? Because some were left with the impression she manually forwarded every email instead of having them sent automatically?

Like I said earlier, it simply require clarification and in my mind is not a basis to be fired.

No arguments about the Clinton's being crooked, so why the outrage from Trump over Comey implying they were crooked?

How is this a "bogus investigation" if Trump fired Flynn and Sessions had to recluse himself? After firing Comey it is very reasonable to ask if Yates and Comey were also fired due to the Russian investigation, hence there is no way I see this as bogus and I along with everyone else will demand a full investigation.

Yates position on Trump's wall has already been vindicated. If that was simply an excuse to fire her for her warning on Flynn and Comey's firing was also a pretense and the real reason was the Russia investigation then we don't just have smoke we have "fire".

Who brought this on himself? The same guy who confessed in writing to ethics violations. You realize that what he confessed to is exactly the same thing he accused Bill Clinton of doing with Hillary's investigation.

Do we really want such an idiot running the country?

Do we really want to wait and see what else the guy with the nuclear codes will fire to save his skin?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Trump is exactly the kind of leader we need running the country.

You say Clinton's were crooked, but where is the outrage over her walking free?

Where is the outrage over Obama operatives surveilling political opponents?

Where is the outrage over Comey's actions last year, totally inappropriate for a sitting Director?

Where is the outrage over Lynch meeting with Bill Clinton in the airport?

Where is the outrage over failed FBI investigations into a host of Obama other scandals like Benghazi, IRS, etc.?

Did you really like an idiot like Obama running the country? Giving billions to our enemies so that they could have their own nuclear codes?

I prefer a patriotic "idiot" to a Benedict Arnold in the White House.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

No doubt Trump wanted to clean house of the uncooperative Comey who was investigating his ties to Putin before Trump hosted Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Russian Ambassador to the US Sergey Kislyak at the White House today. Trump couldn't risk the chance that the Ruskies would release any of the dirt they have on him because he had failed to thwart the FBI investigation. It's all good. :rolleyes::lol:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Fair enough, the idiot we have now is better than some of the idiots we might otherwise have.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

There's a new movie out for you called "La La Land."

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I bin tryin to tell ya that all thems in poly ticks are kruks and lyers anda best we kin hope fer is a pate riot in the Big House.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

The Big House? That's Leavenworth, right?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

During the former Acting Attorney General’s testimony, we learned that she warned the White House that its former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn had lied about his Russia contacts and was vulnerable to blackmail.

We also learned that President Obama warned Trump directly against hiring Flynn.

But despite these warnings, Flynn was hired and was involved in key national security decisions, even 18 days after the White House was told about his Russian dealings.

These revelations are deeply troubling and are further proof that we need a full accounting of the Trump administration’s Russia ties.

The Senate does not have full-time Senate staff assigned to investigate Russia’s interference in the 2016 election. It’s time for an independent commission to uncover the truth.

Firing FBI Director Comey was a step in the Trump Administration's strategy to cover up this grave national security matter.

With Trump’s Russian connections back in the news this week and the FBI's integrity compromised, it's clear that we need an independent commission to investigate the Trump campaign and Administration.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

U. Michigan Wolverine stadium, the Buckeyes' arch enemy.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

We heard the same cries for years regarding Benghazi.

Flynn lied to Pence, so Trump canned him. That was months ago. And you still want to investigate that. Where were you when the Republicans cried for an independent investogation?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I'm talking about the 400 military bases that the US has been building up and mobilizing around them:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/233119...erpower-rival/

Surely you don't expect everyone to believe that provocative behavior is only something other countries do.

America wasn't invited to play a role in Syria by their democratically elected government, and still isn't I recall. Forget about checks and balances on the President, where are the checks and balances on America?

Your idea of checks and balances on a nuclear powered President is not realistic. I don't think they hire people who are hesitant about pressing the nuke button. The person who gets the order from trump to press the big red button, they are going to do it either because they are a trump supporter and think trump is always right, or because they are afraid they will lose their job if they don't.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I lived in Taiwan for many years and it was very clear to me they very much wanted the alliance with the US. From my understanding the same is true of Japan and S. Korea.

The only time the US has used a nuclear weapon it was justified. Japan attacked us, we were defending ourselves and more American lives and Japanese lives would have been lost had we used conventional weapons than were lost from the bombs. Also, I blame the Japanese Emperor for the 2nd bomb.

About 80,000 were killed in the bomb that fell on Hiroshima.

Had we gone with operation downfall --

A study performed by physicist William Shockley for the staff of Secretary of War Henry Stimson estimated that the invasion of Japan would cost 1.7-4 million American casualties, including 400,000-800,000 fatalities, and five to ten million Japanese deaths.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

The Christians and Kurds, who both have been slaughtered by both the Syrian gov't and ISIS, have long cried out for help and basic humanitarian assistance.

Since the rest of the world, including the UN, do next to nothing for indigent peoples suffering brutalities at the hands of their own gov'ts, THANK GOD the USA has stepped in to help these peoples. During the last century, nearly one quarter billion people have died at the hands of their own gov'ts. What has your country done for these ones? Nothing? I thought so.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

The US got involved in Syria because of ISIS and the "war on terror". Nothing to do with alleviating the suffering of Christians or Kurds. The US has never been able to do so much about the Kurds because of its ally Turkey. The general consensus on intervention in foreign countries is that intervention makes things worse. It takes away the capacity of the people to solve the problems for themselves. It almost always fails, and deepens and prolongs the problems. I am not talking about supporting a country against clear aggression from a Hitler or a Mao, but the attempt to control the political process within any country as per Libya, Iraq, Syria by military means.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

There have been seven investigations of Benghazi, led mostly by Republicans in the Congress ... all ending in bupkis ...

I hope we spend as much money into investigating these Russian ties. Interference by any nation into our elections should never be allowed, and should be pursued by both parties ... even you shouldn't want it bro Ohio ... unless you don't care because your guy won.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Ahem.

"the U.S. intervened in 81 foreign elections between 1946 and 2000, while the Soviet Union or Russia intervened in 36"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreig...l_intervention

Re: Politics and the Church
 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.79aaefd735ad

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/10/politi...t-trump-comey/

Comey's firing was born of trump's tantrum. On top of threatening to out his collusion with the Rooskies, Comey had hurt President Snowflake's feelings. :baby:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

First, I see the term "snowflake" as a personal insult. Yes, it is true that Trump does not post here (as far as we know) but even so I think you are setting a dangerous precedent.

Second, I highly doubt it was a tantrum. I think he had been sweating for the last five days what to do, ever since he heard the "good news" that Comey's investigation was beginning to get traction. I think he jumped at the news of Comey's "mistake" as a "viable" excuse to fire him, and not because of the investigation, because, as he said he had been told on three separate times that he was not a target of that investigation.;)

For example, I was in the lab with my students this last week and two of my students violated very strict rules about lab protocol. As a result both classes had to leave the lab room as it had become unsafe.

I wrote up the incidents and as a result they will both fail lab. There was no "tantrum" instead I was very happy. I knew both students were not ready to move onto Chemistry and now I had the documented event that completely justifies that decision.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Are those countries happy about it? If not, do something, it is your country and your election.

I am not angry at Russia for intervening in our election, I am angry at Clinton whose use of a non secure server made it easier to hack, and I am angry at anyone who colluded with the Russians and want them caught, tried, and humiliated.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

What? ... my guy lost.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Rosenstein was overwhelmingly confirmed by the Senate on April 25. Give him a couple weeks to confer with past Directors, past AG's, and current top FBI staff, and he was quickly able to recommend with overwhelming support that Comey had to go.

Other than that, any time frame during the past 6 months or the next 6 months would be deemed suspicious and inappropriate.

Democrats have been calling for Comey's head since last summer. Give them what they want, and now they don't want it any more. Like a petulant child.

And here folks we have "Fake Tears Chucky" -- :baby:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Regardless of how you spin it, no one can deny that it is unethical for Trump to fire Comey in the middle of investigating Trump's campaign. Even Trump understood that which is why he claimed he wasn't being investigated.

But that claim comes with two more issues:

1. It would be unethical for Comey to have these three alleged conversations with Trump, just as much as Bill Clinton meeting with the AG when she was investigating Hillary was unethical.

2. No one can deny that Comey was investigating Trump's campaign. Claiming that Trump was not being investigated was disingenuous. Since the investigation was not complete how could you possibly know whether or not Trump was part of it?

To now see these republicans paraded out defending this because six months ago Democrats wanted Comey fired is the height of hypocrisy. Think about it, the President was a democrat. Why didn't he fire Comey? Because it would be unethical to do so while Hillary Clinton was being investigated.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Except NOT. Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein threatened to resign after his recommendation was cited as the reason that Trump fired Comey.

Long story short, Trump threw a tantrum over the Russian ties investigation and pushed Rosenstein to write the memo, so it didn't look like it came from Trump.

These are clear indicators of guilt ... that smell like Nixon all over again.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Are you serious?! Remember the good old days of Constantine the great when you could get your lackeys to take the fall?:p

You realize what this means. Sessions and Trump realized the ethical dilemma in firing him and had to give credit to Rosenstein. Which was a lie.

Here is how they are now describing the events. Trump calls a mtg, says he wants to fire Comey, asks AG and Asst AG to put their thoughts into writing. Then pretends it was the Asst AGs comments that were the final piece which prompted him to action.

Looks more and more like Nixon firing Cox.

Well, you need a good impeachment every 30 years or so.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

The liberals began their impeachment proceedings on November 8.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Oh ... I should have thought : Ohio = Kasich. I like him too. Much better than Trump. He would play by the rules and Trump has none.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

And the republicans are fine with the crook ... and all the other crooks too.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I had to revisit this. Cuz I have to announced that we're extremely lucky to have someone on AltVs with Top security clearance.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I would have voted for him as well.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Recently learned that Benghazi was not so simple. The State Department actually had little say in how that place was guarded. It was a front for the CIA operation down the street. State was given the task of having a show of presence so that U.S. personnel could be at the annex down the street. No amount of clamoring by State was going to change the level of defense for the people there.

Not defending HC. She still has plenty to be called to account for.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

And the Democrats are fine with liars, crooks, and traitors too.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Would that be your friend Anthony Weiner?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

And that is what you reap when you don't deal with sin, you no longer have a standing or a ground to deal with anyone else's sin.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Are you impugning Kenneth Starr, who impeached Clinton?

His credentials were irreproachable.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

And it gets even worse. Under oath high ranking FBI officials say that Trump's claim that Comey had lost the confidence of the FBI is false.

Trump's claim that the Asst AG prompted the firing of Comey is false.

Soon we'll find out if Trump's claim that Comey told him he wasn't the focus of an investigation is false.

If the Asst AG did not push for comedy to be fired then it is clearly and undeniably a conflict of interest on Trump's part.

That would make his explanation for firing Comey to include 3 lies and unethical behavior.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

It is hard to figure out who is not being impugned at this point, going all the way back to the box 13 scandal. With an approval rank of 35% Trump would surely be given a vote of no confidence if this were a Parliamentary system.

Regardless of whether or not he is impeached he clearly has no political clout. Look at the outrage these politicians face in their town halls. They (Republicans) are going to be terrified of having anything to do with Trump. They are on a sinking ship and he is the anchor, they will cut the rope. If you think the first 100 days were ugly you haven't seen anything yet. You can't blame Democrats, the Republicans control both the Senate and the House. Apparently "getting tired of winning" happened much faster than any of us could have imagined.

But that is secondary, this is a matter of national security and that is what is truly scary. If Trump was innocent he would have given Comey everything he needed to put this to bed quickly, instead he has acted to obstruct an investigation.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Politics
Sean Spicer Had a Meltdown After Trump Fired Comey, Hiding in Bushes and Demanding Darkness:hysterical:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

And now after Rosenstein almost quit over getting the blame Trump changes his story, that, he was gonna fire Comey without the AG and deputy AG recommendations, because, Comey was showboating and grandstanding. Boy if that's not a projection I don't know what is.

And what about Sessions recusing himself and still interfering with the Russian ties investigation. It all smacks of guilt, again.

I'd ask why Trump doesn't know about Nixon, but he's so stupid that he thinks he just invented "prime the pump." Bahahahaha

Re: Politics and the Church
 

No, that was what we were told yesterday, but today according to Trump and Rosenstein both, it was definitely Trump that called for Comey's removal.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

And now you know why I'm a mugwump, and registered as an independent.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Apparently Comey was axed by Trump because he refused to make a loyalty pledge.

I am vaguely familiar with this practice of loyalty pledges, where have we heard that one before?:scratchhead:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Ohio bought Trump's story. :hysterical:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

We have had experience with WL and his "loyalty pledge" and saw the results of that. We need to respond to this threat. James says 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

Comey did the right thing in refusing to swear a loyalty pledge to Trump. The assistant head of the FBI did the right thing in his testimony yesterday. We cannot sit idly by as a political hack is put in charge of the FBI who swears allegiance to Trump, while Trump is bringing Russians into the oval office with their tape measurers, cameras, and every other "gift" they might have for Trump.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

This is what happens if you mess with the swamp.

"All the swamp creatures begin snapping and writhing and yowling like angry cats in the dark. For the better part of a year now, the only thing everyone in Washington could agree upon was that now-ex FBI Director Jim Comey was an overreaching, underperforming dolt. He fancied himself to be attorney general after he had lost all confidence in Loretta Lynch, the actual attorney general. That was after Ms. Lynch had met privately on a jet with former President Bill Clinton on a tarmac in Phoenix. This was at a time when Mr. Clinton’s wife was running for president while under investigation by the attorney general and the FBI for criminal misuse of classified emails.

Wearing his Big Boy AG shoes last summer, Mr. Comey delivered the most damning non-indictment of Mrs. Clinton in the history of criminal justice. After listing a long rap sheet of inexcusable, reckless and conspiratorial handling of state secrets over a purposely concealed home email server — designed specifically to shield Mrs. Clinton from public scrutiny — Mr. Comey jarringly announced that he was recommending that no charges would be forthcoming. “Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case,” he said, concluding his withering damnation of Mrs. Clinton last July.

But, lest any mere mortals think they might get away with doing the same thing Mrs. Clinton had done, Mr. Comey was blunt. “To be clear, this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences,” he warned. “To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions.” “But” he added, “that is not what we are deciding now.” In other words, if you are a former first lady who is about to be the next president and whose husband is a former president who just met privately on a plane on a tarmac, then you won’t be charged. But if you are a mere citizen or public employee with no such influence, you’re gambling with your life and your career.

Ahhh, life in the swamp.

Despite all of this baggage, Democrats nominated Mrs. Clinton anyway. But Mr. Comey was not finished with her yet. Like a swamp cat playing with a swamp rat, he toyed with her again and again up until the last weeks and days of the campaign. Mr. Comey was for her before he was against her. Then he was for her again. Life in the swamp can be disorienting — especially if you are the rat being toyed with. “If the election had been on Oct. 27, I would be your president,” Mrs. Clinton said recently, referring to one of Mr. Comey’s final interferences in the campaign. The election, of course, was held a week later. And she lost.

Donald Trump was hired instead to drain the swamp Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Comey had inhabited for far too long.

Now, of course, Mr. Comey has been sacked and the Democrats are losing their minds. None of them seems to think Mr. Comey should not have been fired. They just think he should have been fired sooner. Truth is, they really just think he should have been fired by President Hillary Clinton. Which raises another interesting question. If the Democrats’ only complaint right now is that Mr. Trump did not fire Mr. Comey sooner, then shouldn’t they be mad at former President Barack Obama for not firing Mr. Comey after the election?

Or, even better, before the election?" -- Charles Hurt, Washington Times

Re: Politics and the Church
 

All of a sudden you decided to put on some guts and grow a spine?

Did not Janet Reno swear in with a loyalty pledge to William Jefferson Clinton?

Did not Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch swear in with loyalty pledges to Barack Hussein Obama?

But it's OK it the Democrats do it cause the media is on their side and we'll never hear about it.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Sound more like a MINO, mugwump in name only. :p

An independent ... kind of like ole Bernie Sanders?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I do not agree with Bill Clinton meeting with Janet Reno, I think they should be investigated and prosecuted if found guilty. Therefore it is consistent to hold Trump to the same standard. Trump condemned Clinton seeing Reno privately and yet confessed to the exact same conflict of interest.

I don't disagree that Trump ran on the pledge to drain the swamp, but with all the billionaires in place and the exact same crooked practices only more blatant and more in your face, this is not what I understood "drain the swamp" to mean.

I believe the evidence is clear and convincing that Russia hacked the DNC emails with the intention of damaging Hillary Clinton's campaign. It is also clear that Flynn had unethical ties to Russia and that Sessions is also too close to Russia to be a fair judge in the matter. Also Mannafort was far too close to Russia for 10 years to be a campaign manager for a US presidential election. Carter Paige and Roger Stone are just two more examples of a disturbing connection. Of course Jared Kushner's ties have to be investigated as well. Why did Trump gut the Republican party plank on Russia's invasion of the Ukraine?

That to me is enough to justify a demand to see Trump's tax returns and have a full and complete investigation. This is not politics, it is national security.

To make things worse Trump fired the acting AG and replaced her with Sessions who has ties to Russia. His appointment to National Security Advisor was compromised due to his ties to Russia. Finally, he fired the head of the FBI who was overseeing the investigation of collusion between Trump's administration and Russia.

And how exactly did this take place? Flynn was never vetted because they trusted Obama's vetting, only problem is Obama fired Flynn and warned Trump about him. So that is a completely bogus explanation for why you don't vet your NSA?!

Sally Yates was fired ostensibly because she felt his anti immigration policy was unconstitutional. It has since been judged to be unconstitutional. If Trump is to be believed she was fired for doing her job and being truthful to him. But it is also reasonable to think the real reason to fire her was to put his man in charge of the investigation into Russia's hacking and collusion.

Likewise the stories we heard about Comey's being fired were lies. Lots, and lots of lies. He was not fired because he was not nice to Hillary Clinton as was first alleged. He was not fired because of the Assistant AG's recommendation. The second version of what took place. He was fired because he did not do a loyalty pledge to Trump. The chairman of the House intelligence committee investigation (Devin Nunez) has had to step away due to his coordination with the Trump administration.

In 2014 Reuters reported Eric Trump saying that they had access to $100million in funding from Russia. Yet yesterday Trump tells us he doesn't have any assets in Russia. This is why we need to see the tax returns.

In 2008 Eric said that they were seeing a disproportionate amount of funding coming in from Russia.

But yesterday Donald Trump tweets "I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!"

Something does not smell right to me.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

In what parallel universe were Reno, Holder, and Lynch FBI directors? :sFun_abduct:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

So no matter how much I try to not be part of both parties to you I still have be a dreaded liberal? Why bro Ohio? Why do you need liberals to hate? What's going on with that? You seem to even have to invent them in your head. What's going on with that?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Your questions are really strange to me because for a long time I felt how did these ex-members of the LC do such a radical 180 shift? They now seem to have everything of the Bible and have nothing good to say about any Christian. Sorry bro, but I only ever hear the negative, and kind of reached my limit. And then you ask me why I hate liberals, while I have been asking for years why do you seem to hate Christians and conservatives?

I don't hate liberals, least of all you bro, in fact I rarely get into debates with them about politics. It's just too contentious. Take my friends and family -- they know that I don't incite "violence" over political views -- like so many of them do to each other. Also I cringe when I hear political views expressed in church settings.

But this sub-forum is different. Because I heard so much blowback over the years on this forum against God, the Bible, and all things Christian and/or conservative, I decided to respond, just in case some fair minded reader came along. You and zeek are at times like LC leaders -- you make enemies where there were none. I think zeek does it just to be nasty because he patronizes everyone. You, however, do it for laughs. ZNP, however, genuinely expresses his thought out views, which I may agree with or not, but I definitely learn from him, and am challenged in a healthy way.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

You nasty liberal lover! :lol::hysterical::lol:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Thanks for the honest and straight up reply.

Why is that strange? In the church we were taught Christianity was Christless, and many worse things. Did you fail to get that memo?

I pick on Christians so much because I feel that first I was bamboozled by my cradle religion (SBC) and then by the local church. Apparently you don't feel bamboozled by either your cradle religion or the local church. Why you left the local church and are on a forum of disgruntled exmembers is beyond me ... 'cept you prolly got tired of being abused by them. We must be better abusers. haha (laughter). If not we should try harder.

And while I'm not near as partisan as you seem to be (you seem to be more like Ann Coulter and her book "Demonic: How the Liberal Mob Is Endangering America"), I pick on conservatives because, the tack that sticks up gets the hammer. And why pick on the liberals? They are their own worst enemy. Look what they did? They pushed Bernie out in favor of the Hildabeast. There's no need to point out such stupidity. It speaks for itself. They put Trump in charge. You should thank them.

But aren't there both good and bad in both parties?

My sister, a Yellowdog Democrat, is that way with our family. She won't talk politics with them. I gets too heated. I'm a mugwump, I don't like either party, and so don't have that problem. I'm with them when they are critical of democrats. And I pick on my sister so much she don't want me to talk politics. For eight years I really enjoyed bringing up Obama's flaws. My sister hated it.

Oh, my. my ... so you don't support Trump's EO on preachers preaching politics? But I think Trump did atheists a big favor. And they are so stupid they need all the help they can get. They don't even realize that the best thing that could happen to their movement is for the wall of separation between church and state to be taken down. Just look at Europe, for example.

What constitutes a fair minded person to you?

Thanks.

The both of you can be pretty nasty toward each other. Stop it.

And there's plenty to laugh at, in religion and politics. Except in this last election. Both parties -- the Hildabeast and Drumpf -- are no laughing matter. Our comedians, however, sure are having a heyday ... way more than the days of Dubya. I didn't like him back then, but he sure looks pretty good about now.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Well let's give a few examples:

If you describe Trump as "childish" that is not fair minded, I would prefer "impulsive".

If you claim that Trump's reference to Clapper was a lie that is not fair minded, I would prefer disingenuous.

If you are calling for Trump's impeachment I think that is premature, at this point I would prefer the claim that "there is room for improvement".

If you are rolling your eyes when they tell you there was no concerted effort to pin the Comey firing on the Asst AG that is not fair, I think we should take the administration at its word that they were incompetent.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

A fair-minded person, in our context here, can differentiate between a few bad examples and the whole. What you do is what generally defines bigotry -- project the failures of a few upon the whole.

No fair-minded person would castigate every LC-er solely for what Mel Porter did to you back in the chaotic 80's. This is why I constantly differentiate between the actions of leaders at LSM and the typical LC members. Your "unbalanced" views leave no room for differentiation, and consequently you seem unable to find anything good from your time in the SBC or TLR. That is not healthy bro!

Then you set out to "prove" your thesis on a regular basis. For example, Ohio is an evangelist who does not condemn Trump for his policies, and yet Trump is a "known" misogynist, xenophobic, racist, abusive, and immoral billionaire, therefore all evangelicals are also misogynist, xenophobic, racist, abusive, and immoral. That is the message I hear on this thread.

Don't you think that is just a little too extreme?

Also, W. Lee did teach that "all Christianity was Christless" in the 1976 summer Revelations training. Forty years ago I accepted that and it had a negative impact on me. But I also heard in parochial school that Lutherans can't go to heaven. So what?!? Do we still cling to those archaic generalizations? Are we taking that nonsense to our graves? To be honest, my wife and I are slowly becoming friends with our Catholic and Protestant neighbors because we have dropped that old junk we heard in our youth.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

You could take some lessons from Greg Gutfeld. He is a mugwump but is also independent, and conservative libertarian. And occasionally funny, like you. ;)

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I have a lot of respect for Senator Rand Paul, not that I agree with all of his policies, but the guy is honorable and trustworthy. Here is what he said recently:

Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) earlier this week revealed that another senator had told him that he was surveilled by the Obama administration. “I know one other senator [Rubio?, Cruz?, Graham?] who’s already confided to me that he was surveilled by the Obama administration, including his phone calls,” he told Fox News on Wednesday. “So when this all comes out, if there are political figures from the opposition party, it’s a story bigger than any of the allegations with regard to Russian collusion,” he said.

Earlier this month, Paul announced that sources have told him that he has been surveilled by the Obama administration, and that he has requested information from the White House and the congressional intelligence committees on whether he has ever been surveilled, unmasked, or searched for in intelligence reports. “It’s about your own government spying on the opposition party, that would be enormous if true,” he said. “I don’t know the truth. We’ve asked the intel committees, House and Senate, and I’ve also asked the White House, because there is this whole discussion of Susan Rice unmasking people,” he said.

Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper revealed that last year, 1,934 Americans’ names were unmasked. Last month it was reported that Susan Rice had unmasked Trump campaign officials — which she has not denied, but only claimed that it was not illegal.

“There was no reason for her to unmask people. Hers was not a position of investigation. Hers was a political position. And for her to get involved with unmasking Trump officials is alarming. If it happened to other people, it’s even more alarming,” he said. “But we’re going to try to get to the bottom of this. And it’s a very secret world. You have to realize that it’s a world so secret most members of Congress are never allowed.”

For me this is the far bigger story than some Russian collusion with the Trump administration, which explains why they apparently have found no evidence for election tampering after all these months. And until they do, I have to believe, based on the history of Obama operatives, that RussiaGate is nothing more than smokescreen. The real investigations ought to be centered on Hillary and Susan Rice.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Philip Mudd, a former counterterrorism official at the FBI and CIA scoffed: “You can’t take this seriously. You feel like you’ve got to give the president of the United States a pacifier and a rattle and put him in the crib.”

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Now you know why I'm offended when you call me a liberal. I don't identify as liberal or conservative. I'm both. Example : I'm very liberal with your daughters and very conservative with mine. haha

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Then the only real difference we have is semantics!

That explains everything. :yep:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

"Good" people could never support the wholesale slaughter of the totally innocent and defenseless unborn.

That is what turned me off to liberals in the Democratic Party in 1973.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

So to you it all hangs on abortion? But I know liberals that agree with you. My yellowdog sister for example. She disagrees with abortion.

But she's a woman, and believes that women have sovereignty over their own bodies, and men nor the government should make such an important decision as to whether to abort or not.

In short, if men disagree with abortion let them keep it in their pants, or use some kind of birth control. It does take men to create the problem. And then, when it's done, it's men that think they should control the woman/women.

Good luck with that. Maybe you can, but, I've never been able to control women.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I agree that this would be a very big story, but since the Republicans control the Senate, House and Whitehouse you would think it would be easy to investigate this and get to the bottom of it. Therefore, are they doing that? If so, why make allegations until you have the facts? That comes across as throwing mud to create a distraction.

Yes, everyone agrees that the allegation, if true, is very serious. The problem is the people making this allegation are in power. Why are they acting impotent like they cannot get the truth?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

He is frustrated but that is the wrong attitude. James said to "count it all joy" -- that is the right attitude. Understand that Trump and his administration will perfect your patience, and you can't be a mature Christian if you are not patient. Think of the irony of calling him a baby if your not fully mature. Very often you see these guys who are questioning the Trump communication team drop their jaw when they see something that appears as a blatant lie (like saying they weren't trying to pin the Comey firing on the assistant AG). But James says that if you need wisdom to deal with the trial, then ask.

So I think this is a good example of the error I am talking about which is not helpful. Be patient. Trump has only been president for about 100 days and we already may have evidence of obstruction of justice (a valid basis for impeachment), the pressure for the tax returns has intensified while Trump appears to be more and more desperate. If those tax returns turn up a very close tie to Russian financing it would reveal that Trump is a liar based on his Tweet disavowing any connection at all. That would also be a very strong basis for impeachment. Because of all this a good 65% of Americans do not trust Trump, are concerned about his ties to Russia and tax returns, so this provides a political mandate. Finally, in June there is a key election in Georgia. If the democrat wins you will see a defection from Trump by those in the Republican party that are concerned about the midterm elections.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Why is this?

If the US is a democracy then majority rules should still have an impact on policy, not 9 Supreme court justices.

I have thought about this issue for years and have determined that the solution is quite simple, the US constitution does not say anything about it, therefore it should be left up to the States. If the Supreme court were honest they would say that they did not have jurisdiction. As a result some states would legalize and some would make it illegal and others would have a variety of restrictions. Then it would be very easy to measure how a State's policy impacts the health and welfare of the people. Then, 44 years later, you would have a very clear evidence as to how each policy will impact your people and State. Instead because of Blackmun's ruling we have a festering, puss wound that is dividing this country 44 years later.

But that isn't what happened. Instead Blackmun's ruling is to put your hands over your eyes and see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil.

That policy has been a total and complete failure. We don't want, need or authorize the Supreme court to make laws and ignore the US constitution.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

For me the 1st and 2nd Amend rights are similar -- you can do anything you want with your own body or your own guns -- until someone else gets hurt. That's when your rights stop. Except in the case of self-defense. So is that the excuse women use? "The baby was killing me, so I killed it in self-defense." Nonsense, abortion is murder, plain and simple, murder for convenience.

Your sister's (and she is not alone) argument is bogus. Full of stereotypes. Don't the unborn, 50% of whom are women, have rights too? And what about all the pro-life women who want to change the laws to protect the unborn?

What if the mothers of all of these pro-abortion women felt the same as they do???

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Thy bias runneth over!

Where are all the facts the democrats have? They been throwing mud since Nov 8. The Repubs have evidence, otherwise Flynn would never have resigned.

The Repubs have no power until the swamp is drained. Even then, with the Democrats controlling the media, who is really in power?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Rand Paul, as much I don't like the crazy senator (like his father - who I liked but thought went off the rails with crazy at times - I like Rand the same way) but he's right to oppose all the mass surveillance by NSA.

I said it long ago, to folks around here (in Rand Paul land) but they told me, "if you've got nothing to hide then there's no problem." But there is a problem. I said, "but eventually they will be surveilling everyone, including judges, lawyers, politicians, congressmen, senators, and everyone else in government.

Let's face it, the legislators okayed it, and now it's coming back to bite THEM in the rear.

The sun sets on the Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act at the end of this year. Rand Paul is pushing to allow it to expire. So I doubt all these claims by Paul about Obama wiretapping everyone is true. He's just trying to make a point that all this surveillance is bad. And he's right.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Totally agree. It has been said that Roe was the worst piece of juris prudence in our history. That liberal scotus is guilty of millions of murders.

Next comes the redefinition of marriage.

The real difference between liberals and conservatives is on display for all to see. Pro-life marches and protests have been held for 44 years without a single case of violence. Compare that to campus snowflakes, black lives matter, etc.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Why do you doubt? Remember James Rosen' surveillance by Obama admin?

Remember Sharyl Attkisson? She literally watched her computer being turned on in the middle of the night, with the cursor moving around copying and deleting files, uploading and downloading files?

Now you know that computers just don't do that on their own!!! And then the official explanation she received from the Inspector General was that her "backspace key was stuck." Uh-huh, sure!

But hey, Rand Paul is conservative! He's a medical doctor. He's from Kentucky! So you really can't trust him. I understand that bro. :rollingeyesfrown:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Would you mind changing the wording here?

You have until 6.45 am tomorrow.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Somewhere Freud is smiling. ;)

[Sorry Freud - MOTA]

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Do I really have to like Rand Paul, and the O'l Mitch to meet your approval.

Just tell me. Do you approve or disapprove of all the NSA snooping on everyone?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Sorry, I meant puss. I was too late to make the change.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I think it is foolish to disapprove. Pandora's box has already been opened, China, Russia, Europe, even N. Korea are all snooping on everyone.

I approve of those who can walk in the light.

That said I realize the potential for a corrupt leader to photoshop and otherwise digitally enhance in order to frame innocent people. This is why I approve of Armageddon and the Lord Jesus 2nd coming.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

If you can't prove something then it is counterproductive to make the allegation. This is why prosecutors don't bring a charge unless they have enough evidence to see it in court, and this is why a judge will throw out a trial if you don't present evidence.

If they have the evidence, then proceed with the prosecution. If they don't have the evidence proceed with your investigation, but do it quietly.

The biggest problem I have with Trump's administration is the proliferation of unsubstantiated accusations. He is the President, he has the most powerful surveillance and investigative tools at his disposal. Making unsubstantiated allegations and empty threats just makes him look impotent, which in turn insults our country.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I fixed it ...

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Just representing our glorious president. But I agree it was funny watching all the news heads trying to tell that story.

Then, it has turned out that big guns of the news have been doing it too.

Must be a drag to be a women in this sort of mans' world.

But I guess we've come a long way. As far as I know men today aren't knocking them in the head and dragging them to their cave.

Must be great to be so great as to getting away with it. I couldn't even touch my wife's without her permission. I'm sure you understand.

BTW, I fixed ZNP's but not mine. Mine was intentional. His wasn't.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Puss? Didn't you mean pus?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

yes, my bad.:o

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I don't approve of Big Brother. Rand Paul is on my side here.

Have you read about the WannaCry RansomWare? That's just a fraction of NSA's power. Apparently their "bag of tools" is so expansive, they "lose" a few "tools" now and then.

:iagree:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Pandora's b.Big Brother Good, Rand Paul Bad..

What, sorry, seems my space bar is stuck.:D

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I'm looking for that NSA software to download so I can hack into your computer in the middle of the night. :p

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I don't agree. Try listening to other news sources, like Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Now you got real MODA power.

You have become dangerous.

Time for you to moderate a few rogue governments.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

How about Ann Coulter? She seems to think he has been a disaster and she wrote "In Trump we trust". Not exactly a Trump hater.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

You're the second guy who brought up Coulter. Whasup with her?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

She described the US as being in Chicago and voting for Trump because he promised to get us to California in six days, yet every time you turn around he is heading to NY. In short she said that the administration has been a disaster so far.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

So Hillary was a better choice for Coulter?

Sounds to me like she is trying to up her own ratings.

But I don't understand California in 6 days ...

Obama promised to balance the budget in 4 years, and then succeeded in doubling the debt in 8 years, and no one challenged him on that. So why is Coulter so impatient after 100 days?

Re: Politics and the Church
 

President Donald Trump last week shared highly classified intelligence with the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in an Oval Office meeting that was so under wraps that American allies were not aware of the information, The Washington Post reported Monday.

Current and former anonymous US officials told The Post that Trump's disclosures to Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Ambassador Sergey Kislyak jeopardized a key source of intelligence about the Islamic State terror group, as the source had not given the US permission to share the intelligence with Russia.

Officials told The Post that Trump's disclosure risked the cooperation of an ally that has access inside of ISIS.:mad:

This story is stating very clearly that the intelligence community does not trust Trump with classified material anymore. The key reason why information like this would not be shared with our allies is that we think it would compromise our source. Trump has compromised our source with the Russians.:furtive:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

I don't know if anyone else has noticed but Trump always has a bigger smile when shaking a Russian's hand. He doesn't smile like that for others.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

The $100 million smile.:D

Re: Should we cancel Whitehouse briefings?
 

The underlying basis for the Whitehouse briefing is that the Whitehouse belongs to the US, it is our government, and for a democracy to work we need an informed electorate.

No doubt if the Whitehouse belonged to Donald Trump he could cancel press briefings if he wished, but this is not a privately held company. Every citizen has a stake in this union and we cannot possibly be responsible citizens without getting information.

Now if the Whitehouse cancelled their press briefings it would not stop us from having News (free press is a constitutional right and mandate). But it would stop the Whitehouse from being able to share their story, correct misconceptions, and be a part of this story. Being the first to shape the story is power, canceling that feature is like cutting off a person's arm. Generally speaking not something that is desirable unless you have gangrene.

Therefore I find it very interesting that Trump would suggest this. Does he realize that the Whitehouse press briefing is an instrument of power? Or does he realize that his administration is in critical condition with a spreading gangrene?

Every dictator uses the media to trumpet their version of reality. They do it for mind control and to counteract other versions of reality. In the US we don't have a dictator, we have a "free press" and the President's power is transmitted through that press. We feel this is more powerful because it is more credible. But if he canceled them he would truly be impotent.

Which also raises the question as to why he has not given a press briefing in almost 10 months. Have we ever seen anything like this with any other president? I thought the previous record was around 3 months?:lurk5:

As long as we are in this bizarro realm, how many campaign rallies has he given since being sworn in? Have we ever seen that before?:loopy:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Donald Trump Tweets that he has the absolute right to share this information with the Russians because he wants them to help fight ISIS.

Very often I have felt that the worst ills are always brought on by those proclaiming that "they have a good heart".

One main reason certain information is classified is to protect the source, which if outed would almost certainly be killed. A second main reason is that if our sources do not trust that their identity will be protected they will stop being sources.

This attitude by Trump is ignorant and very dangerous.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Oh yeah, and you can join him in giving Trump tongue baths.

Re: Obstruction of Justice or Backstabbing
 

A second consecutive day of bombshell stories sent the Trump administration scrambling after the New York Times reported Tuesday that President Trump implored FBI Director James Comey to drop the bureau’s investigation into former national security adviser Michael Flynn’s ties to Russia at a February meeting.

The White House issued a response minutes after the story posted to the Times website, denying the president ever made such a request.

According to the Times report, which has since been confirmed by multiple news outlets, Trump broached the subject of the investigation into Flynn’s ties with Russia, asked Comey to “let this go.”

From the Times:

“I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go,” Mr. Trump told Mr. Comey, according to the memo. “He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.”

This is getting ridiculous. Either there are those in the Whitehouse trying to bring him down at great risk to their own career or else he needs to go. We have to see the tax returns. We have to know if there are tapes and if so listen to them. If this memo from Comey is not true then it must be proven, I don't think anyone is going to take Trump's word over Comey's.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Putin has a transcript of the conversation in the Oval office that proves Trump didn't reveal classified information?

Is this supposed to be comforting?

Re: Obstruction of Justice or Backstabbing
 

Kasich ripped into Trump last night to the extent that he rips into anyone. Once again reminding us that he refused to go to the Republican convention.

But what we know for certain is that Trump met privately with Comey in the oval office, asking Pence and Sessions to step out while he had private words with Comey. This conversation, according to Comey, was Trump asking him to drop the investigation of Flynn. Comey did not drop the investigation and saw this request as "appalling" and documented it. He did not tell anyone else at the FBI, further supporting the fact that he did not let it affect him as far as stopping the investigation, however it does raise the issue of why he didn't mention this in the hearings he was at after this took place. We then know that in public Trump asked Comey to pledge his loyalty to which he only agreed to pledge to be truthful. Following this Comey was fired for "grandstanding" and doing "a bad job".

Trump's version is different, but it also differs from Spicer's version and it differs from Mike Pence's version. The Whitehouse has released 3 different official versions of what took place. However we have witnessed Trump try to undermine the US Judicial process when his travel ban was rejected and also when Trump U was being sued. Being involved in thousands of lawsuits does damage his credibility to me. Refusing to release his tax returns makes me think he is hiding something. Hiring numerous people who had to be fired due to their involvement with Russia makes me trust him even less.

When Trump was elected it was like he was put in charge of driving the bus I was on. From that point on I was hoping he could do a good job. My attitude has changed. I would exit this bus at the very first opportunity, my concern over his ability to operate the bus has gone from questioning to being convinced I don't want this person responsible for my safety.

Fox host: No Republicans 'willing to go on camera' after Comey memo

So Trump has burned his bridges with the CIA, NSA, FBI, Whitehouse Staff, Republicans and even Fox news.

It does seem he was right, everyone is now tired of winning.

Re: Obstruction of Justice or Backstabbing
 

Kind of explains why Americans actually prefer Manchurian Puppets for their President. It's just so comforting to have him/her read from teleprompters and give us hope and assurance every night before bed.

With teams of seasoned speech writers, researchers, legal counselors, and PR staff, how could this bus have gone off course? Surely the Russians must have hacked our election machines!

Re: Obstruction of Justice or Backstabbing
 

The US government is not a private company. When you become president you have many "lifers" working for you, people who have spent 20+ years in their position, know their stuff and are professional. Anyone who comes to the job with a "my way or the highway" attitude is not suitable.

Re: Obstruction of Justice or Backstabbing
 

Hey, take heart! We're just living in The Twilight Zone.

Re: Obstruction of Justice or Backstabbing
 

A 6 year old kid becomes president?

or

The President alone can see little gremlins working in the press office trying to destroy him?

Re: Obstruction of Justice or Backstabbing
 

Manchurian Puppets have the power of the Press.

Just think about how much Clinton and Obama got away with. :crazy:

Re: Obstruction of Justice or Backstabbing
 

"look at how badly Trump has been treated", "no politician has ever been treated this bad",

I tell you what, they aren't going to have Trump to kick around for much longer.

Re: Obstruction of Justice or Backstabbing
 

I know some lovely "snowflakes" who are more frightened of Mike Pence.

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

They better prepare themselves because I expect Trump to resign before the year is out.

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

Trump talked tough at the college commencements for the last two days but the events of the past eight days have gotten ahead of him.

On Tuesday 5/10, Trump fired Comey, the man leading the investigation into Trump for his campaign's ties to the Russian government.

On Wednesday 5/11, he welcomed the Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador into the Oval Office. Russian state media were allowed in. U.S. reporters were not.

On Thursday 5/12, Trump admitted to NBC that "when I decided to [fire Comey], I said to myself -- I said, you know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story."

On Friday 5/13, he took to Twitter to hint that he had taped his conversations with Comey. The White House refused to deny that he had.

On Sunday 5/14, Trump played golf. (It was Mother's Day.)

On Monday 5/15, the Washington Post reported that Trump shared highly classified intelligence on ISIS with the Russian Foreign Minister in the Oval Office.

On Tuesday 5/16, according to a memo that Comey wrote shortly afterward, Trump asked Comey, to shut down the federal investigation into Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, in an Oval Office meeting in February.

On Wednesday 5/17, Justice Department appoints special prosecutor to investigate Russia, Trump campaign ties.

And bad news for poor Trumpie just keeps on coming. Turmoil over recent Trump controversies triggered the Dow’s biggest loss since September.

Congressional Republicans appeared to be digging in for a long investigation.

If Trump's popularity dips any lower Congressional Republicans will abandon Trump like passengers from a sinking ship. :lurk5:

Re: Politics and the Church
 

In a statement released by the White House, Trump said: "As I have stated many times, a thorough investigation will confirm what we already know — there was no collusion between my campaign and any foreign entity. I look forward to this matter concluding quickly."

Actually it will determine the answer to many other questions as well.

1. What are the financial ties between Trump, his businesses, and Russian investors?

2. What evidence is there that Trump tried to obstruct justice in the Comey firing?

3. Why did Trump choose Flynn? He had been warned by Obama and Flynn also advised them that he was currently under investigation, so why make this person who was fired your head of NSA and why didn't they vet him?

4. Has Trump lied? Has his administration lied?

5. Are there Whitehouse tapes?

6. Was the firing of Comey, firing of Yates, and undermining of the Justice system in their ruling on his travel ban part of a pattern?

7. Is Trump capable of not talking and following legal advise? There are some very persuasive people very close to Trump painting a picture of a person psychologically unfit. How is he going to respond to the real pressure of this investigation?

The problem Trump has is that there is so much written record of what numerous people surrounding him as well as his own words on these topics. Any investigator would have a field day when questioning people. To make things worse it is hard to see that Trump has any friends. I don't think anyone in the Whitehouse, CIA, FBI or Republican party is going to take a bullet for this guy.

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

Yes, he played golf on Mother's day while Melania was with Baron and family. They did not spend the day together, but He did wish her a happy Mother's day and we know this for a fact because he did it on Twitter, not just Melania but all mothers.

If this is the life of a billionaire I am very thankful that I am not one.

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

Sour grapes?

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

No, everyone has the flesh. Having unlimited money to go with the flesh is a very dangerous combination. Being a billionaire makes it simple to find a young, attractive wife like Melania. But this relationship shows that golden apartment is merely a gilded cage.

I am thankful to the Lord that in His sovereignty He would let the entire country see this. Prior to this Donald Trump portrayed a very different image of a "playboy".

Getting the full view should be good for many who would otherwise be distracted by the love of money.

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

‘Art Of The Deal’ Co-Author Tony Schwartz says Trump is in “pure terror” that he’s going to lose.

“There is no right and wrong for Trump, there’s winning and losing,” Tony Schwartz told CNN’s Anderson Cooper.

“I surely believe that at some point over the next period of time he’s going to have to figure out a way to resign,” Schwartz said in comments posted online by Mediaite. But in quitting, Trump will try to “figure out a way, as he has done all his career, to turn a loss into a victory so he will declare victory when he leaves.”

Earlier in the segment Schwartz told Cooper that Trump was “in a pretty significant meltdown.” He added:

“I think he’s reacting from a survival place. I think he’s being run by the part of his brain that’s reactive and impulsive, not capable of reflection and I think he’s in pure defensive mode.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...ushpmg00000009

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

According to your view, isn't God in His sovereignty responsible for every tyrant that ever ruled? I suppose you could find a salutary lesson God was teaching us with every one. Politics becomes the POE.

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

I wouldn't read too much into that. Mother's day is not such a big deal. Just another commercial thing. The issue is "he played golf", and does so frequently.

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

They chose to be a tyrant. We have had dictators that were very helpful, built their kingdom, we have had bad dictators, incompetent ones, etc.

Yes God is sovereign, but at some point they closed their ears, ignored God's word and did their own thing. Hence they will reap what they sow.

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

I think his recent commencement address is the foretaste of his "turning defeat into victory". It isn't that he lost, but rather that the media was very bad to him, worse than they have ever been to any politician since man discovered fire. Blah, Blah, Blah.

No accountability. No admission of his own mistakes. It's not his fault it is going to be someone else's fault.

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

By that reckoning, free choice is sovereign not God. God seems to have abdicated sovereignty when he allowed free choice.

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

Why? The US constitution has ultimate authority in this country and it has allowed for "free choice" to pursue life, liberty and happiness.

You have the freedom to speak what you wish in this country, but you can be held accountable for your words and you can be indicted and convicted based on your words.

The bank robber has the freedom to choose to become a bank robber, that doesn't take away the sovereignty of the state to arrest, convict and imprison that bank robber.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Trump Tweets:

“This is the single greatest witch hunt of a politician in American history!” Trump tweeted early Thursday. “With all of the illegal acts that took place in the Clinton campaign & Obama Administration, there was never a special counsel appointed!”

What exactly is he saying, does he think that investigating the extent of Russia's hacking of our election is not critical to our national security?

Generally a "witch hunt" involves superstition. There is no "superstition" concerning Russia hacking our election, France's election and other elections. There is no superstition about Flynn being compromised with the Russians. There is no superstition about Trump firing the head of the FBI who was in the midst of investigating his campaign's ties to Russia.

There is a credible eyewitness account that Trump tried to obstruct the investigation prior to firing Comey. There is the pattern of Trump firing Yates and insulting numerous judges to support the idea he would obstruct justice.

So what is he saying, because other criminals were not convicted yet we should overlook his crimes? Is this a confession?

Insulting war hero's is one thing, insulting parents of war hero's is even uglier, but to give secrets to Russia that could endanger the lives of our intelligence sources. This goes beyond reprehensible to dereliction of duty.

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

Should I use my power as the MOTA to change this to the Dec. of Independence?

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

But, we don't live in an absolute monarchy. Freedom, if it exists, relativizes authority. God cannot logically have absolute authority and allow freedom concurrently. To the degree that we are free, God's sovereignty is limited.

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

See ... that's what we like about Bill and Hillary ... they take ownership for their mistakes and failures instead of blaming others!

Re: Politics and the Church
 

No, he is saying that Hillary and Obama got away with far worse. Democratic leaders live by another standard that the rest of us.

Not too difficult to understand, is it?

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

The US constitution lays out the framework for a society that will protect our liberties and allow us to freely pursue them.

The Declaration of Independence is not the final arbiter in the US, it is not the ultimate authority, it is however, our declaration that we are independent of the British Crown.

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

The final, or ultimate authority in this country is the constitution.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

How can we possibly know who got away with what without a full investigation. What he is saying is that the US is wasting tax payer money on the investigation. But unless he is confessing how could he possibly know where the investigation will lead or what we will learn?

There is plenty to warrant an investigation and we should all be concerned about a foreign power manipulating our election. It is absurd to claim that the investigation is a waste of money and by doing that he has lost any shred of credibility he might have still had.

Latest report: Donald Trump's campaign made contact with Russia at least 18 times during his presidential race, according to a new report.

Apparently the purpose was to set up a back channel form of communication.

Israeli officials quoted:
"We have an arrangement with America which is unique to the world of intelligence sharing," said the official who spoke on condition of anonymity. "We do not have this relationship with any other country,"

“To know that this intelligence is shared with others, without our prior knowledge?" he added. "That is, for us, our worst fears confirmed.”

Looks like treason, quacks like treason, leaves bird poop like treason.

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

I think I just stepped in sarcasm It certainly smells like it. haha.

I watched Fox off and on lately, and all they keep bringing up is Obama.

Basically, it's the same thing I heard from my kids : "Everyone else is doing it."
.

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

And it says we have rights to pursue "Life, Liberty, and Happiness." That statement is absent in the constitution.

Easy mistake. Surprisingly, some in our founding days considered the Declaration to be more authoritative than the constitution.

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

How exactly would you legislate the right to pursue life? It is enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

We pursued liberty by fighting the revolutionary war.

We pursue happiness with our laws, economy, and political structure in place along with our freedoms.

The declaration is just that, a declaration. The constitution is just that, our constitution.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

No, Trump is saying that Dem leaders get away with far more serious crimes.

It is readily known that the DNC manipulated our election. Just ask Bernie's people. Bernie, however, got his vacation home on the lake, so he has been paid off.

JFK and RFK averted nuclear war with a back channel form of communication, and they were heroes. But with Trump it is treason.

Why don't you get upset with all those felonious leakers in the DNC?

Re: Getting the ducks in order
 

By overturning Roe.

Re: Politics and the Church
 

Trump says a lot that seems to contradict what he has said before. I suppose in 40 or 50 years we may know a lot more about the truth of what he has said, but I can't possibly view him as a credible witness at this point. I see this comment as self serving and immature.

Absolutely disgusted by the DNC. However, it is also well known that we discovered this due to the Russian Hack and they presented it in the worst light possible. If Bernie had been the Democratic nominee instead of Clinton I would have voted for him. For me it is not about policy, I would have also voted for Kasich. My concern is with the person who will be in this position, can I trust him or her. I did not trust Clinton or Trump, so I declined to vote for either one. However, I have voted in all previous presidential elections and there were two candidates out of the final 5 that I would have voted for. So then my standards are not so high, as long as you aren't a liar and a fraud.

I was upset with them, why do you say I wasn't?