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| 01-29-2019 03:18 AM | ||
| aron |
Re: a couple's rise and fall Quote:
The "Recovery" narrative was a mis-aiming, a self-oriented fiction, as is clearly seen by the fruits. We have too many such testimonies to remain willfully blind. But the gospel remains. The resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead isn't something that we genuflect on one Sunday in April. It is the power of an indestructible life which now by faith has reached us. It is his faith, not ours. It is "the faith of Christ." Anything else will lead to stories like the above. Everything in the Bible points to the resurrection of Jesus, not Psalm 16 only. Everything looks to it for fulfillment, then looks back to it for validation. It is the touchstone of our reality. Not the "local church", not "the present revelation" or some such. |
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| 11-02-2008 05:52 AM | ||
| Suannehill |
Re: a couple's rise and fall A very sad but familiar story. May the Lord be rich to you, and may He bless you with Himself! A bit bemusing though in it's mention of Titus. This brother seems to be damned no matter what he does! If he goes along with the program, (like we all did) he's despised...then if he teaches without WL's direct supervision, it reads like a covert operation. Somewhere, there must be the story of a man...who made mistakes and who followed the Lord. It feels like the attitude of the LSM had permeated this poor brother more than he thought! Ask any poor Ohio person who attended trainings out there! The attitudes were horrific! Many accusations were hurled and we Ohioans had no idea what they were talking about! We were that protected and isolated from the terrible reality of Anaheim. Sue |
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| 11-02-2008 12:45 AM | ||
| Indiana |
a couple's rise and fall From: Tom_Saulino Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 4:25 PM Here is the PDF version: www.twoturmoils.com/TomSaulinoTestimony.pdf ------------------------------------------------------------------ Steve: I got saved into the church in Atlanta in February of 1974. I moved to Boston area from 1977 thru 1979 with the young people from the southeast and all over the country. I married a sister from Atlanta who also moved to Massachusetts from Georgia. We got married in May 1979 and shortly after moved back to Atlanta to be in the church there. We moved to Knoxville TN in 1984 as did other saints to start up a church life there. In early 1985 the gospel team visited Knoxville. While they were there I got the burden to join them. My wife is a nurse and worked full time so that I could do it. In February of 1987 my wife and I both participated in the full time training in Taipei. We left in August of 1987 to help with new ones in Orange County that got saved during the door knocking training in summer of ‘87. After taking care of personal matters we came back to Orange County in Early September of 1987. We visited the new ones at night and took part in the training during the day. The problem was that it only lasted for a couple of weeks. After that we were doing full time day labor for Philip and the ministry office during the day and most of the evenings. Some evenings were open to visit the new ones. My wife’s and my experience in Taipei was glorious. But our experience in Orange County was far from that. We got to see Phillip in action and how people listened to him and followed him around much the same as teeny boppers followed rock stars. My wife and I would ask each other what and the heck is this? In November we decided we had to go back to work and not be full time any more. A couple in Irvine was gracious enough to let us live at their house while we were searching for work. We wanted to stay in the area, so that we could still help with the new ones. We lived in the Southeast when most things happened there, and we lived in Orange County when things were happening there. It was about the same time the Jim and Tammy Bakker thing was going down. I remember telling my wife here we are in the middle of something (working with the full-timers in Taipei and also with the ones in Orange County) and look how pure it is. That was in September when we first came to Orange County. Little did we know we'd soon learn it was just as corrupt if not more corrupt than the Jim and Tammy scandal. By late October we knew something was "wicked wrong" as they'd say in the Northeast. The things that bothered us were many but for time sake I'll mention just the ones that stand out in no specific order: 1. Philip’s meeting with the fulltimers regarding the upcoming Thanksgiving conference planned by the elders from the various churches. 2. Titus Chu's repentance to the fulltimers to show his support for the office and Philip just before Witness Lee came back from Taipei. 3. Benson Phillips meeting with the fulltimers for the purpose of open fellowship. 4. Remodeling a large room of the LSM to do the translation work for the recovery version of the New Testament. 5. Seeing Philip in action. 6. Witness Lee's inaction when it came to addressing the problems. 7. Vindication with a capital "V". 8. The tearing down of the character of brothers publically that had true concerns similar to yours. 9. The analyzation of every item said or written by ones with concerns, problems or genuinely different opinions. 10. The we are always right in every case attitude. There are so many it would take hours or days to list them all. I'll briefly cover these ten points as succinctly as I can. 1. We, the fulltimers, were doing manual labor for Philip for at least 30 days. During this time some of us had minimal time if any to spend with the new believers. Yet Philip ranted and raved in the meeting that the new ones would die if we didn't spend that weekend with them [and not attend the conference__ED] They're not going to die while we're doing his labor, yet they will die if we invite them to a conference with lots of other believers and new ones. Give me a break. You don't have to get rid of all common sense to be one with the ministry or ministry office. That's absurd to think you have to do that. For some reason Philip didn't want the conference to happen. The Thanksgiving weekend was coming up, and there was to be a young people’s conference in the mountains. This was brought up for fellowship, and the question arose concerning who should go to lead the young people. We learned then that one of the trainers from Taiwan had already been encouraged through those serving in the LSM office to come, and in fact he was preparing to come. Most all of the brothers felt strongly and expressed clearly their disagreement with that arrangement, based upon the damage wrought by the high school training in Irving, Texas, in which this particular trainer had a prominent role. The elders asked two brothers among them to telephone this trainer in Taiwan to inform him of the brothers’ feeling that someone else should lead the young people in the coming conference. They did so immediately. It was indeed a shock to the brother in Taiwan. It also was a blow to Philip Lee, who presumed to be directing these affairs. 2. I saw Titus Chu in Taipei walking down the street. When I first saw him I did a double take because I couldn't remember who he was. I knew he was. He also did a double take acting like a kid with his hand caught in the cookie jar. When I did remember that it was Titus I took a mental note of his reaction because I thought that it was peculiar. Later I found out that he was conducting some kind of training for young ones in the church in Taipei without Philip's or Witness Lee's knowledge. He was a brother who would play both ends against the middle. He would tell John Ingalls he stands with him and tell Witness Lee that he stands with him. He once told some of his fulltimers that he sends ones to the training in Anaheim as a token to show his support for Witness Lee. He would say that WL is getting old and there's no need to give him extra worries. He knows exactly what Philip's like and would no more follow him than the man in the moon. Notice that they (churches under Titus's leadership) don't and won't support the latest law suit. 3. Coming back to the Philip's meeting with the fulltimers, Benson was sitting right next to Philip while he was basically going ballistic. He did nothing to stop him and not only so, he supported him. I have no more respect for this man. He has given up every ounce of integrity that he has to follow a man…. Back when he met with the couples at a restaurant on Ball Road nobody brought up this meeting or what went on with Philip. While walking back to the meeting hall my wife and I made it a point to confront Benson about this meeting. My wife said, "when do you say enough is enough as far as the oneness goes", in other words how much can one take and follow blindly before common sense takes over? He couldn't come up with an answer. I said "let me get this right. When it comes to the ministry the spiritual side, that's Witness Lee. When it comes to the practical side, the business side of it that's Philip Lee. Am I being too narrow to say that Philip had no business sharing anything let alone what he shared and the manner in which he did it?" Benson's response was a question. Did you get any life or light in anything that he shared? He couldn't give my wife or me an answer when it was going on yet he had all of the answers by the time of “The Fermentation of The Present Rebellion” book. To me this is terrible. Today I would ask him to his face how he could say things about John and his motives and not look at himself. He knew and still knows what type of person Philip was and still is. What it boils down to is Benson thinks it's more important to follow a man than it is to follow God. 4. Brothers from the Bay area came down on several weekends to remodel a portion of the LSM for the translation work. Some fulltimers including me also helped. I laid the carpet for the room. When it was barely finished Philip told his dad some lies about John Ingalls and the work was moved to Irving, Texas. All of the work for naught. The room was given to Dan Towle for the fulltimers. 5. Seeing Philip in action. From my few encounters with the man I can tell he doesn't have a spiritual bone in his body. If he was a manager of any real company he would have been sued for harassment and/embezzling and would probably be doing some hard time in jail. And to think his holy dad cared more about this son than he did for the church. 6., 7. and 8. I called Witness Lee brother V for vindication. I called Philip brother F. Anyone who has a contrary opinion to his is the devil and Lee would cut down and tell lies about their very character. What about him? How could he let his sons do so many terrible things to the churches and work for decades. How could he tear down honest sincere people like John Ingalls and say or do nothing about Philip. If he lived his man becoming God teaching, why is God condoning evil acts and people and being slanderous towards genuine Christian brothers and sisters? Jesus never vindicated himself while he was on the earth. Rather, He died on the cross. Lee says he was continuing in the steps of Watchman Nee and that he was so one with this brother. Yet Watchman being accused of living with a woman out of wedlock let the brothers excommunicate him from the church without trying to vindicate himself. The woman turned out to be his mother. Lee on the other hand vindicated himself by tearing down the brothers that had true genuine concerns by saying half truths, exaggerations and outright lies about brothers in public. Not only that he held elders meetings where ones would stand up publicly and tell gross lies about brothers like Bill Mallon, John So, Joseph Fung and John Ingalls. Whosoever could tell the tallest tale would have his ear. The elders in Anaheim through much prayer, much waiting and much discernment excommunicated Philip. To say it wasn't done hastily is a gross understatement. A brother was so mad at Philip for what he did to his wife that he got a gun and was making plans to kill Philip. It went to that extreme before something was done. Then several years after the elders resigned, Lee strong-arms the elders from the church in Anaheim and tells them to write a letter to Philip, and they did write a letter, welcoming him back. More than a year later Philip complained that the letter wasn't signed so all of the brothers signed it and sent it to Philip, apologizing to him for nor signing it. This is God's will. This is a man that is 99% transformed. (WL) This is disgusting is what it is. 9. In the Fermentation book, the writers went through John's 16 Points analyzing point by point John's motives as well as every word to find fault or error. If they took a look in the mirror and did the same to themselves they wouldn't be able to write anything if they had a conscience. 10. You are not going to get an honest answer from people like this. Why do you even bother? Do you really think they care? If they did care or do care now why haven't they apologized long ago? They can't and don't because they are always right. They believe if WL said it that's as good as God saying it. They are infallible like the Pope when it comes to matters such as these.... Tom Saulino |
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