Originally Posted by Ohio

Some of this is just naturally geographic. Spokane is remote, and the leaders are not regularly together with the western metropolitan club of elites. Access to the top became quite corrupting to some. That’s just our fallen nature disguised as spirituality. I learned that in high school. Some guys were “in,” some guys betrayed others to be “in.” I call them “risers,” always looking to improve their status using access. Basic politics here. I was never “in,” so I never even tried. This was never so visible as when storms blew thru the Recovery. Who were you with? Which side are you on?

Let me use our forebears the Exclusive Plymouth Brethren as an example. I really think my study of them helped reveal what some couldn’t perceive. Theirs was a history of storms, purges, and divisions. None of which was ever legitimate or actually scriptural. Actually just struggles for power. Picture a rotating spit of lamb for Greek gyros which I love, being constantly carved. That was their history.

Each “carving” removed those who put the Lord first, put the Bible first, put love first, or those who simply hesitated to “despise” the one(s) being ejected. E.g. decades after George Muller was expelled, new members who never even heard of GM, were forced to sign on to JND’s condemnations of him. Sounds a little like how Ingalls, or even Isitt, has been treated. As time went on almost 2 centuries now, those who have remained after numerous purges on that revolving spit have become more strange, mean-spirited, narrow-minded, legalistic than ever. They became more known for their unending list of unwritten rules, crazy interpretations of obscure texts in scripture, and weird esoteric knowledge, all which puffs up. They are so exclusive and elite, they are simply unapproachable.

Originally Posted by Flybynight

Not that it should really matter, it happens that this insult was flung towards the second wife who happens to be of Asian descent. I doubt Ron would have hurled out such a condescending thing to his first wife Susan. From what I know, she was a real tiger and she would publicly humiliated him in an instant!

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

Is this from the December 2023 semi-annual training? I haven't been able to find it online yet, but if I ever do, I'm grateful to have those timestamps.



It's interesting to hear that they are really starting to openly push for a new Minister of the Age. I'm not surprised at all that Ron Kangas is the prime candidate right now. Do we know where/how we can access some audio/video of this conference/training?

I know they've posted some audio clips from their trainings before like the one where they took a huge dump on Jo Casteel.

It'd be nice to be able to hear it from Kangas himself.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Let me use our forebears the Exclusive Plymouth Brethren as an example. I really think my study of them helped reveal what some couldn’t perceive. Theirs was a history of storms, purges, and divisions. None of which was ever legitimate or actually scriptural. Actually just struggles for power. Picture a rotating spit of lamb for Greek gyros which I love, being constantly carved. That was their history.

Each “carving” removed those who put the Lord first, put the Bible first, put love first, or those who simply hesitated to “despise” the one(s) being ejected. E.g. decades after George Muller was expelled, new members who never even heard of GM, were forced to sign on to JND’s condemnations of him. Sounds a little like how Ingalls, or even Isitt, has been treated. As time went on almost 2 centuries now, those who have remained after numerous purges on that revolving spit have become more strange, mean-spirited, narrow-minded, legalistic than ever. They became more known for their unending list of unwritten rules, crazy interpretations of obscure texts in scripture, and weird esoteric knowledge, all which puffs up. They are so exclusive and elite, they are simply unapproachable.

Originally Posted by Jay

Is it systemic? Is it in every region? Some on this site would say yes, I ultimately don't know because I haven't been around everywhere. I just know that in Spokane the leadership was very innocuous and laid back and didn't seem to want to lord anything over anyone.

Originally Posted by Jay

Now I ran up against the young elders mentioned here. And yes those are the ones I'm talking about.

Originally Posted by TLFisher

Whatever happened to GF or BS? I thought they were elders as well or at least were when I was there along with Jim. It was Jim along with BS who came to my home before I began meeting with the Church in Renton. Basically saying "we love brother Steve, but if you don't make Steve Isitt an issue, you're welcome" to attend. No never would have made Steve an issue and never did.
I recall one Renton home meeting several older brothers were speaking among themselves and the topic of their conversation was Daystar. How interesting to be in proximity to have heard that.


I can see that more from IF than from MS. I sensed more humility from MS than IF. Observation from my experiences. Yet each I considered lacking maturity in life. Maybe it's just me, but a brother who passes through the Full Time training is fast-tracked to being an elder. When I was in Bellevue, I knew Jim Bilheimer and GF. It was only logical years later when they were elders in Renton. Being loyal brothers from 20-25 years. Same goes for BS who was in Seattle prior to Renton.

Originally Posted by Jay

could be. this is a theory that I don't have a great deal of experience in, however some things happened with these young brothers in Renton recently and I've seen another side to the church and coming to this website and reading this type of information and ex members sharing their experiences about this is painting a picture of what you're talking about. I came up against these young brothers "authority" recently in a decision they made involving not helping a needy member and I think they were totally wrong in doing so, but when an appeal was made to them they just ignored and deflected.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Jay, I know this may be hard for you to accept, but the problem is NOT that there is a “clergy-laity system” in the meetings, but that those in the lead are abusive, and lack love and maturity. As the Bible says, they “lord it over” the flock. As the O.T. Prophets often said, they are worthless shepherds. They were selected, not because they possessed the qualifications prescribed in scripture, but because of loyalty to “the ministry” at LSM. They are not faithful and obedient to the Lord and His word, but to WL, his Blendeds, and their “up-to-date” books. Ha!

Originally Posted by Ohio

Not recognizing who are the legitimate elders in the church meetings is like walking into a home and not recognizing who are the parents.

Originally Posted by Jay

But in general I just wish the clergy-laity crap would go away and the function of the body would come out. Renton was much closer to Spokane in that regard than Bellevue or Seattle, but you can still easily see the clergy there in Renton. Which to me.....idk, it's kind of a form of Laodicea. There's actually four older brothers in Renton that are in their late 60's and 70's who DO have the growth in life to lead and should, but they deferred the responsibilities to these younger brothers. Actually one of those four kind of unofficially acts like an elder and spends more time in that capacity, and even he acts a little weird, although I like him somewhat. I felt a little bit of his wife thinking she was in an honored position because he is one of the co-founders of that locality. I can always tell when an elder's wife revels in her husbands supposed authority. That's female nature for you, but anyway it exposes a lot sometimes and you can tell.

Originally Posted by TLFisher

When I was meeting with Renton, the lead elder has since passed. He was the most capable in regard to being personable. The ones as found at https://secure.dor.wa.gov/gteunauth/_/#2 struck me as being loyal, but without capacity.
In Bellevue, I see times have not changed the past 25-30 years. It was the same way in the 90's. Gaps in prophesying. Same people prophesying. Brother Sherman would get tired of it always being the same and would ask for a new voice. Well, the brothers don't want to hear this and never have, but the Holy Word for Monring Revival produced a clergy/laity system.

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

I've had an interest in dissecting their conferences since that is what they most jealously guard. I understand that even with access to this most recent conference, their defense will likely still be the same.

"You took it out of context."

It's amazing how they always say this, yet they always fail to provide textual, audio, or scriptural evidence to counter with what they believe is proper context. They just say you did it wrong and kind of stop there.

"Ok, then. Show me the context."

There have been instances where someone would say something was off about a message but not even say specifically what, but others would still respond with "you took it out of context."

Took what out of context? They haven't even specified the critique yet! This is just further proof that they throw out this phrase reflexively and really have no idea how to respond properly.

Regardless, I had a lot of fun taking apart the message given at their "Special Fellowship" at the July 2019 semiannual training, so I'm sure I'd enjoy doing the same for this most recent training, especially if what has been presented recently is the kind of nonsense that Ron Kangas is peddling.

Does no one see how stupid this all is? Am I going crazy here? It's absolutely ridiculous, but it's been that pattern since before I was even born.

It's sad to think that even if we were able to get everyone in The Lord's Recovery to see clearly... well, by that time there will be ten new groups that are just as bad if not worse.

Originally Posted by Jay

I remember at a meeting in Renton around 2016 a brother stood up to speak and he was stammering and like pausing because he wasn't used to speaking and he couldn't find his thoughts on a certain subject. The leading elder at the time was sitting in the front row like a king sits on a thrown (doing his best Brother Lee impression probably) and he lifts up his arm like a king giving an edict, and goes "brother sit down." I was so pissed, my blood was boiling. That's not how you lead a church. That brother may never stand up to speak ever again as long as he lives. He may have left the church idk, I haven't seen him in years. He was just publicly embarassed, I felt so bad for him

At Bellevue a bunch of times the leading brother told people to sit down as well. He would also literally yell at the congregation in anger because there was too long of pauses between prophecies. If the pause was too long he'd stand up and chastise the congregation for taking too long and not standing up, like a father would yell at a child who broke something. Pretty reprehensible. That church was pretty dead spiritually and they were just going through the motions. You could tell there wasn't much enjoyment because of the strict atmosphere that that tyrant of an elder fostered. It was also like an abusive relationship. Like that brother had so much control over the church that everyone feared him and was trying not to get him mad or something

He was really arrogant when it came to his power over the church, but one time I called for the elders and asked them to pray over me due to an illness and all the elders were as timid as a deer in headlights when it came to actually helping me. They all three drove up to see me and kinda joked about laying hands on me and then just left without actually doing it. It was absolutely bizarre. They were really apt to exert negative control, but when it came to manifesting something positive spiritually they were basically rookies. And when it came to actually having a spirit of lowliness and loving a needy and suffering member they acted like teenagers. Just so shameful. Looking back it may have been that they didn't even believe I was sick. I remember my mom went and talked to one of the elders who came that day and he basically brushed her off and goes "all of that for just some anxiety." He thought my illness was all in my head. I can't understand how these type of brothers become elders, it just boggles my mind. It took me almost 15 years to figure out exactly what the problems were and why the churches in this region are so messed up. Which was horrible because I had a lot of personal problems and I needed shepherding and love badly. How can shepherding and love happen when a church is full of darkness from improper leadership? How can it happen when the church is basically Laodicea? It can't and it didn't and I suffered greatly for years because of it and even left that locality and never returned. I get the ick even thinking about it now and even then what I experienced from 2006-2010 probably isn't even half as bad as some other members have suffered elsewhere in different localities

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

I've had an interest in dissecting their conferences since that is what they most jealously guard. I understand that even with access to this most recent conference, their defense will likely still be the same.

"You took it out of context."

It's amazing how they always say this, yet they always fail to provide textual, audio, or scriptural evidence to counter with what they believe is proper context. They just say you did it wrong and kind of stop there.

"Ok, then. Show me the context."

There have been instances where someone would say something was off about a message but not even say specifically what, but others would still respond with "you took it out of context."

Took what out of context? They haven't even specified the critique yet! This is just further proof that they throw out this phrase reflexively and really have no idea how to respond properly.

Regardless, I had a lot of fun taking apart the message given at their "Special Fellowship" at the July 2019 semiannual training, so I'm sure I'd enjoy doing the same for this most recent training, especially if what has been presented recently is the kind of nonsense that Ron Kangas is peddling.

Does no one see how stupid this all is? Am I going crazy here? It's absolutely ridiculous, but it's been that pattern since before I was even born.

It's sad to think that even if we were able to get everyone in The Lord's Recovery to see clearly... well, by that time there will be ten new groups that are just as bad if not worse.

Originally Posted by Nell

https://shepherdingwords.com/twistin...kangass-words/

While not audio or video, this is the LSM defense/rebuttal of RK’s words. Link previously posted in case you missed it. They don’t don’t deny that he said it, but try to provide “context”. Does this help?

Nell

Originally Posted by Nell

https://shepherdingwords.com/twistin...kangass-words/

While not audio or video, this is the LSM defense/rebuttal of RK’s words. Link previously posted in case you missed it. They don’t don’t deny that he said it, but try to provide “context”. Does this help?

Nell

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

This... is pretty damning if true. Based on the kind of statements I've seen from Kangas and the other leading brothers before as well as predicting the natural progression of their insanity over time, I'm fully willing to believe that Ron Kangas would say something like this.

That being said, for the sake of being thorough, I would appreciate it if anyone could at any point in time provide a link to the audio of this conference. Heck, even if I have to pay LSM to get a copy of it, I will gladly dish out whatever the conference fee was if this is the kind of nonsense being spat out by its leaders.

I understand if it is not readily available now. I know that the Local Churches are quite religious about protecting their precious copyright, especially when it contains the weirder and more radical things that they say, but I earnestly implore anyone who knows how to access these videos to share something substantial with us.

Quotes of this nature, above all others, are the kind that need to be publicized for other members in The Lord's Recovery to see as well as those outside of The Lord's Recovery, and primary sources are ideal.

Originally Posted by TheStarswillFall

During message 12 of the December 23 Semi-Annual Training Ron Kangas stated:

"the enemy knows full well that in all the earth Christ can only be exhibited corporately in the recovered local churches."

Ron Reality Kangas also unmistakenly identified himself as one of the seven stars (Rev 1:16) in the Lord's right hand who is able to tell the churches exactly where they are in relation to this age and the coming one. He also emphatically stated that not any believer can be a star according to Rev 1:16 .... oh no, they must be co-workers in the Lord's Recovery - only those are the genuine messengers to the churches.

oh boy.

Originally Posted by UnfilteredSkeptic

I pray that these fake apostles seize to exist, and this institution will be destroyed by God and found out for all to see. Benson Jr said during his papas funeral that these fake apostles will be “gone or incapacitated in 5 years”, let’s hope his prediction comes through, because I’m keeping count! Enough damage has already been done for 3 generations, and I hope and pray this plague will be gone from earth and people will be set free!

Originally Posted by TheStarswillFall

Ron Reality Kangas also unmistakenly identified himself as one of the seven stars (Rev 1:16) in the Lord's right hand who is able to tell the churches exactly where they are in relation to this age and the coming one. He also emphatically stated that not any believer can be a star according to Rev 1:16 .... oh no, they must be co-workers in the Lord's Recovery - only those are the genuine messengers to the churches.

oh boy.

Originally Posted by TLFisher

I think it all goes back to the teaching and practice of deputy authority. Brothers whether elders or deacons actually believe they are God's representatives on earth. I heard those claims. That's my explanation why brothers get filled with pride instead of humility.
Last time I was in an LC meeting, my wife and I were visiting where my mother meets. Towards the end of the meeting, a sister stood up to speak, but the lead elder cuts her off telling her to sit down.
Afterwards my wife and I were astonished that happened and how embarrassed
the sister must have felt. If there was humility, the elder would have been patient for the sister to speak before the brother gives his closing word.

Originally Posted by TheStarswillFall

During message 12 of the December 23 Semi-Annual Training Ron Kangas stated:

"the enemy knows full well that in all the earth Christ can only be exhibited corporately in the recovered local churches."

Ron Reality Kangas also unmistakenly identified himself as one of the seven stars (Rev 1:16) in the Lord's right hand who is able to tell the churches exactly where they are in relation to this age and the coming one. He also emphatically stated that not any believer can be a star according to Rev 1:16 .... oh no, they must be co-workers in the Lord's Recovery - only those are the genuine messengers to the churches.

oh boy.

Originally Posted by Jay

I've absolutely seen this in the LC. Elders walking around like celebrities and their wives thinking their husband is the big cheese and thinking they're something too. But didn't Lee say elders were slaves? Where is the humility in any of this? Where is the humanity and lowliness of Jesus? Hard to find a word for it, embarrassing, deplorable, wrong, blatant, unfair, take your pick

Originally Posted by Jay

But it does upon him? Lol, they don't realize that they just uplifted Ron here. Technically we all are nothing in the eyes of God. If God uses us then it's not that we are special, it's just that he chose to use us. I guess they don't realize that they're uplifting Ron to a higher status than the regular saints here. Shot themselves in the foot while trying to defend a different topic lol

So is Ron in a special class, like sayyyyyyy a clergy class? lol, so now we're uplifting the speakers huh? smh

Originally Posted by Jay

So your wife is nothing but you're something? Are you implying that you're wearing a crown here Ron? How is this not pride? I thought there were no class or distinctions in the church? If there's no class or distinctions then why are the wives of the leading brothers claiming they have a higher class than others? Why did that happen in the first place? Could it be because they saw their husbands basking in the glory of their positions and the wives wanted in on some of that power?

Originally Posted by Nell

Here ya’ go, Jay:

https://shepherdingwords.com/twistin...kangass-words/

Nell

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

Is this from the December 2023 semi-annual training? I haven't been able to find it online yet, but if I ever do, I'm grateful to have those timestamps.



It's interesting to hear that they are really starting to openly push for a new Minister of the Age. I'm not surprised at all that Ron Kangas is the prime candidate right now. Do we know where/how we can access some audio/video of this conference/training?

I know they've posted some audio clips from their trainings before like the one where they took a huge dump on Jo Casteel.

It'd be nice to be able to hear it from Kangas himself.

Originally Posted by TheStarswillFall

In the most recent 2023 semi-annual training Ron Kangas made these statements:

"There are in fact some parallels between me and brother Lee. Brother Lee was also not an elder, just a brother, but what a brother he was! And with him was the ministry of the age..."

"In a certain sense I represent Christ in His heavenly ministry to all the saints".

Originally Posted by TheStarswillFall

Message 1: Fighting for the Good Land @1:13:25
Message 7: Knowing the Ascension @ 21:00 minutes

The clergy is flexing their muscles for all to see.

Originally Posted by Nell

Here ya’ go, Jay:

https://shepherdingwords.com/twistin...kangass-words/

Nell

Originally Posted by Ohio

These disgusting concepts are totally foreign to the New Testament, and really are sourced in Pagan Rome. The Roman Pope was merely a continuation of the Roman Caesar. This deification of the Roman leader has never left Western Civilization since Julius Caesar was first exalted as a god. The coming Therion Beast* of Revelation will soon replace the Papacy and exalt himself as the Christ, as Israel's Messiah, as the only God on earth, demanding all men to worship him under penalty of death.

The Pope in Rome and the MOTA in Anaheim differ only in scale.


*The Revelation Beast (Revelation chapters 13 thru 19) really should not be called the "Antichrist" because the Bible does not. The Greek word is "therion" which is literally translated a "wild beast." This Wild Beast will not just be anti-christ, or against Christ, but is the Man of Sin who will exalt himself as God of all (2 Thess 2.4) and really should be considered as the archetypal "False Christ." (Matt 24.24)

Originally Posted by TheStarswillFall

In the most recent 2023 semi-annual training Ron Kangas made these statements:

"There are in fact some parallels between me and brother Lee. Brother Lee was also not an elder, just a brother, but what a brother he was! And with him was the ministry of the age..."

"In a certain sense I represent Christ in His heavenly ministry to all the saints".

Originally Posted by TLFisher

That is why brothers in the lead rarely exhibited humility nor repentance. There was an expectation from others to repent to them.
If brothers in the lead offended or wronged anyone, they would not say: " I am so sorry! I was wrong!". Rather they would say brother/sister, you need to take the cross.
I may be off here, but in the local churches I think the concept of taking the cross was a bit off. It is utilized to change the narrative when there is conflict between brothers/sisters. To avoid accountability, just take the cross.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Is there somehow that these statements can be heard or verifiable? Anyone has a video or audio they could provide? If so, please post it here.
Thanks

Originally Posted by TheStarswillFall

In the most recent 2023 semi-annual training Ron Kangas made these statements:

"There are in fact some parallels between me and brother Lee. Brother Lee was also not an elder, just a brother, but what a brother he was! And with him was the ministry of the age..."

"In a certain sense I represent Christ in His heavenly ministry to all the saints".

Originally Posted by Ohio

The real question here is not whether the wife of Ron Kangas has any legitimate authority, but whether Ron has any legitimate authority in the body of Christ.

The Recovery loves to use Moses as their authority paradigm. The problem is that no scriptural basis whatsoever exists that Moses was a type or picture of a N.T. minister. The Bible clearly states, however, that Moses was the forerunner of Jesus Christ, who build God's house. (Deut 18, Acts 3, Hebrews 3, II Cor 3-4, etc.)

Originally Posted by Robert

They never say:" I am so sorry! I was wrong!"

Originally Posted by StevenLi89

*even*

I meant even after Witness Lee is gone

Originally Posted by Flybynight

Not that it should really matter, it happens that this insult was flung towards the second wife who happens to be of Asian descent. I doubt Ron would have hurled out such a condescending thing to his first wife Susan. From what I know, she was a real tiger and she would publicly humiliated him in an instant!

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Ron Kangas: "I am the Co-Worker! My wife is nothing! To recognize her as an equal child of God and human being would be to put her on the throne and crown her! There is no room on my royal throne for my spouse! There is only room for me, the exalted Blended Co-Worker! For any sister to have an opinion about anything, much less dare to speak the truth regarding any kind of abuse against her is in rebellion against God's deputy authority, and they are subject to having the earth open up and swallow them alive!"
(Highly expanded paraphrase by UntoHim, and does not necessarily reflect the attitudes or opinions of any other forum member)
-

Originally Posted by StevenLi89

Who's Ron Kangas? I never heard of that person during my time at Local Churches. Local churches are good at keeping secrets, so they're opaque. Also they don't want the their past misdeeds to be leaked towards other churches not affiliated with Local Churches. I'm sure corruption still exists to this day.

I'm sure Local Churches organisation still get criticism, ever after Witness Lee is gone.

Originally Posted by StevenLi89

Who's Ron Kangas? I never heard of that person during my time at Local Churches. Local churches are good at keeping secrets, so they're opaque. Also they don't want the their past misdeeds to be leaked towards other churches not affiliated with Local Churches. I'm sure corruption still exists to this day.

I'm sure Local Churches organisation still get criticism, ever after Witness Lee is gone.

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Concerning Myriam and Aaron who protested against Moses's marriage with Gentiles, it symbolizes Christ typified by Moses married with the Church as a bridegroom coming from gentile nations. This predicts Christ will be rejected by Myriam (Hebrew name refers to rebellion) typified as rebellious Israel and Aaron typified as Judaism's priesthood like Annas and Caiphas who reject Jesus.

The reason why only Myriam became leprous while Aaron was still fine is that God, even forsaking Israel and turning to Gentiles, still keeps Judaic priesthood until second coming of Jesus and millennium kingdom where Jews will serve Him as priests.

So, it has nothing to do with self proclaiming deputy authority of God among Blended Brothers and LC.

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Ron Kangas: "I am the Co-Worker! My wife is nothing! To recognize her as an equal child of God and human being would be to put her on the throne and crown her! There is no room on my royal throne for my spouse! There is only room for me, the exalted Blended Co-Worker! For any sister to have an opinion about anything, much less dare to speak the truth regarding any kind of abuse against her is in rebellion against God's deputy authority, and they are subject to having the earth open up and swallow them alive!"
(Highly expanded paraphrase by UntoHim, and does not necessarily reflect the attitudes or opinions of any other forum member)
-

Originally Posted by PriestlyScribe

Oh yeah, Ron Kangas spewed those disgusting words out at 17m 20s into this video:
https://youtu.be/rD_eSvRMG0I?t=1040

Hope this helps you to wake more people up - P.S.

Originally Posted by ABrotherinFaith

Does anyone have a link to where he spoke this about his wife? It at least where and when? Thanks.

Originally Posted by Freedom

What is really interesting with many of the current events in the LC is that a lot of these statements being made by Ron and others are fairly straight-forward as to what is being said. For example, the statement that Ron made about his wife is not something that normal people would interpret to be anything different than what he said.

So when shepherdingwords.com puts a spin on it, they're not really fooling anyone, even those in the LC. What it really boils down to is that the blendeds are doing/speaking a lot of questionable things, and I would think that people in the LC are at least somewhat aware of that. For people in the LC, it's mainly a matter of how such actions get rationalized. I think people in the LC are willing to ignore the obvious if they feel there is enough rationalization for what is happening.

Originally Posted by Ohio

When it comes to "Authority" in the body of Christ, Ron Kangas at LSM loves to consider himself the present day Moses. Supposedly then RK has been called by God in the burning bush, conveyed 10 plagues on Pharoah and Egypt, has parted the Red Sea, has been to the mountain, has received the vision, has the glow of God on his face, has build God's house, and how dare anyone even criticize a stupid thing he does or says!

Only his little circle of blendeds take anything he says seriously. The entire body of Christ, on the other hand, would shake their heads and wonder if he was delusional, like a Jim Jones or a David Koresh.

But let's look at what the apostles have told us about authority in the church. Peter conveyed what Jesus regularly taught about never lording it over the church like the Gentiles rule their charge. In his instructions to both Timothy and Titus, Paul enumerated qualifications for both elders and deacons in all the churches. This is extremely significant. Paul never stated that leaders should be loyal yes-men or authoritative figures, owing allegiance to some fake headquarters. That would be the message from the super-apostles and the Judaizers.

Instead Paul mentions that elders should be moral, upright, and those who manage their own households well. Paul saw the urgent need for time-tested and proven men of character to lead the church. Paul saw that each church needed men to exercise the same traits of authority exhibited in healthy homes. Elders were to be the same shepherding fathers and teachers in the church that they were with their own families. Just as overly authoritative fathers are failures in their own homes, authoritative elders are damaging to the house of God. What father would tell his children about their mother, what Ron Kangas said to the saints about his wife?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I grew up in this church. It took tremendous courage to #walkaway @ 18. I have spent many hours to re-write my brain from the deleterious effects of this wicked cult.

As a woman, I was diminished and treated as a second class citizen. Taught that I was nothing, had no value, was separated from my sexual nature which I severely repressed. I was taught that I would have an arranged marriage some day. I was taught never to question the teachings, to be 100% obedient to all the adults in the church. The older women teach the younger women how to be afraid, how to hate themselves, how to be very afraid of people not in the church, how to hate their bodies, how to not turn into Eve, Jezebel and be more like Esther.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Hey brothers, why don't we just put a sock in our mouth and ask all the sisters out there what they think of what Ron Kangas spewed out in that meeting? I have a feeling that their expanded paraphrase would be even harsher than mine.

Sisters. Fire away!
-

Originally Posted by Ohio

Amen to this! Luther went off course at times, speaking anti-semitic epithets actually used centuries later by Hitler's propaganda apparatus. Luther refused to work with other reformers like Zwingli and Calvin over the superstitions surrounding the Eucharist. (Now doesn't that sound like Darby, Nee, and Lee?) I'm not taking anything away from Martin Luther, but elevating him to the status of the "First MOTA of the Recovery" is purely self-serving revisionist church history.

And let me take this a step further. As I was de-toxing from my decades in the Recovery, I came to the conclusion that without second source corroboration, all church history I had ever learned inside the LC's had to be discarded. All of it was twisted and skewed to serve a false narrative. To use today's vernacular, it was all "fake news."

Take this quote by Goebbells, the NAZI propagandist, and substitute the "Recovery" for the "State:"
Does this not explain recent Blended actions, messages, and websites?

Originally Posted by JJ

It’s not just recent Recovery history. It goes back to Luther. His early history is marvelous, but his end and that of his most ardent “Lutheran” followers was horrible, including deplorable filth-filled lambasting of some of his Christian brothers and of the Jews. The last were used by the Nazis (in spite of Luther’s early ministry to the contrary.

The lesson? Don’t build Christ’s Eklesia on the so called “pillars”, build it on Christ, the cornerstone, and his apostles who laid the foundation in the first place.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Each of us must learn how to unlock the shackles which bind our own minds to the false authority usurped by the Blendeds at LSM. For me personally, this happened while I was reading John Ingalls' account Speaking the Truth in Love back in 2005.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Each of us must learn how to unlock the shackles which bind our own minds to the false authority usurped by the Blendeds at LSM.

Originally Posted by Curious

We are doing a particular thing here on this thread, and elsewhere on this forum.

My main hope and prayer is that this will help lurkers. Those current LCer’s secretly reading this forum who are gradually shifting their paradigm. I hope it helps them to break out of the haze that comes over their minds to confuse and almost bewitch them whenever the familiar wording and concepts reach out at them, through statements issued by the LSM wordsmiths. The style of speaking, and use of key words are so familiar, and a person is so conditioned to not be able to process the statements critically. ie, there is an ingrained conditioned response to key words and phrases (like the word ‘proper’) that can disempower the questioning LCer’s mind. The extent to which the person’s mind has been dominated by this style of speaking determines how hard this is to battle. It’s a form of ‘fear-based, mind-control programming’. We are breaking it down for them. I hope it is working.

Originally Posted by Nell

Here’s what Ron and his defenders should have said:
I’m sorry. I was wrong. We were wrong. My words toward my wife were harsh and incendiary and I totally understand why they were received as they were. I should have realized that whatever point I was trying to make would be lost.

Originally Posted by Curious

That's my response to this article!

Originally Posted by Nell

My question: Who talks this way? Who talks this way and why? To what end?

Here’s what Ron and his defenders should have said:

I’m sorry. I was wrong. We were wrong. My words toward my wife were harsh and incendiary and I totally understand why they were received as they were. I should have realized that whatever point I was trying to make would be lost.

I/We now realize that, historically, with such speaking and indeed treatment of women, those of us in Leadership have cultivated a culture of abuse in the churches. To all of you, men and women, I offer my sincere repentance for this terrible misrepresentation of God’s Word and God’s heart toward all of those for whom he gave his Son.

As fallen men, we learned a false understanding of authority. We seek to exercise authority over others, and indeed over women specifically. This is wrong. We are wrong. Please accept our repentance for propagating this evil and destructive understanding among the believers in the church for whom Jesus died.

If there is anyone among you, and I’m sure there are many, who have something you would like to say to us, bring to our attention, our door is now open. In the past, we assumed a position of power over you, punished you and blamed you for speaking the truth to us or about us. Not that we deserve it, but please forgive us, for once again, we were wrong. Our door was closed to you and to the truth. Please forgive us for our past offenses, our blindness and our deafness. We want to hear you and repent to each of you who desire to come and open your hearts to us without fear of retribution or retaliation or accusations of being “negative” or any such thing.

These are the words of a shepherd.

Nell

Originally Posted by Nell

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;[/COLOR
Isaiah 5:20 “Woe unto them that call evil good and good evil; that put darkness for light and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!”

Lord help and forgive us all.
Nell

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Hey brothers, why don't we just put a sock in our mouth and ask all the sisters out there what they think of what Ron Kangas spewed out in that meeting? I have a feeling that their expanded paraphrase would be even harsher than mine.

Sisters. Fire away!
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Originally Posted by Ohio

From the article on the LSM site "shepherding words."This would have to be compared with the audio tape to confirm the wording.

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Ron Kangas: "I am the Co-Worker! My wife is nothing! To recognize her as an equal child of God and human being would be to put her on the throne and crown her! There is no room on my royal throne for my spouse! There is only room for me, the exalted Blended Co-Worker! For any sister to have an opinion about anything, much less dare to speak the truth regarding any kind of abuse against her is in rebellion against God's deputy authority, and they are subject to having the earth open up and swallow them alive!"
(Highly expanded paraphrase by UntoHim, and does not necessarily reflect the attitudes or opinions of any other forum member)
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Originally Posted by Trapped

They actually try to defend the way Ron spoke about his wife this past summer.

Sorry co-worker bros, no matter how you cut it, and no matter how much surrounding context you try to "un-wrench" from the snippets, Ron's speaking is still gross.

Originally Posted by Ohio

But who taught him to be so arrogantly abusive on the podium?

Originally Posted by Trapped

They actually try to defend the way Ron spoke about his wife this past summer.

Sorry co-worker bros, no matter how you cut it, and no matter how much surrounding context you try to "un-wrench" from the snippets, Ron's speaking is still gross.