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03-11-2020 05:02 PM
Barnabas
Re: Can Anyone Help Our College Student?

What concerns me is that your sonís grades are so bad since he got involved with the LC group. I am still active in a local church and I heard WL exhort young people to get the best education. I would go to the leader of that campus group and voice your complaint and see how he responds. I also gave a few years to the campus work and we welcomed the concerns of parents. In fact, we made efforts to get to know them and I got to know one family very well. It is absolutly right for the family to be concerned and I think the leader of that group should be open to meet you. If not, things have changed or perhaps I was just doing it the way I felt led of the Lord.
02-18-2020 09:05 AM
UntoHim
Re: Can Anyone Help Our College Student?

Quote:
We are making a plan to allow our son to step back from the LC group on campus for a while. Also, having him help to research the group more, with a plan.
I think our guests have taken the right approach and course of action for their son. I think the best thing we all can do is to keep this family in our thoughts and prayers. To any of the LCD members who have a special concern for the parents, please PM or Email me and I will put you in touch, with their permission of course.
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02-18-2020 06:35 AM
Sons to Glory!
Re: Can Anyone Help Our College Student?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapped View Post
If you provide any identifying information about yourself on the public forum here there is a decent chance that DCP (the legal arm of Living Stream Ministry that "defends the ministry") will contact the leading brothers in the nearest city to you to let them know there is a student whose parents are posting their concerns online. This may lead to some people from the group trying to contact you or your son with the goal of allaying your concerns in order to try to keep him in.
Wow! Have to be all clandestine and such . . . or not care what they do.
02-17-2020 05:05 PM
Trapped
Re: Can Anyone Help Our College Student?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Thank you all for the amazing feedback. We are making a plan to allow our son to step back from the LC group on campus for a while. Also, having him help to research the group more, with a plan. We our pouring our genuine love over him. We welcome anyone in Georgia or Alabama that can talk with him. We donít know enough about them to know if we should remain anonymous? How do we connect with someone? Sorry, first time in a forum online. The info and kindness the you all have given, are so very appreciated! God is good, all of the time. All of the time, God is Good!
If you provide any identifying information about yourself on the public forum here there is a decent chance that DCP (the legal arm of Living Stream Ministry that "defends the ministry") will contact the leading brothers in the nearest city to you to let them know there is a student whose parents are posting their concerns online. This may lead to some people from the group trying to contact you or your son with the goal of allaying your concerns in order to try to keep him in.
02-17-2020 03:34 PM
byHismercy
Re: Can Anyone Help Our College Student?

It helped me a lot, after coming out of the LC, and as I look around me for ministry that is healthy, and based on Gods' word, to find that it seems to be often the case, when a group of people exclusively follow one man, or even one man (their prophet) plus scripture....these seem to be the groups who are led astray from the narrow path.

~Witness Lee and the Local Church
~Ellen G White and the Seventh Day Adventists
~Joseph Smith and the Mormon Church
~ Charles Taze Russell and the Jehovahs Witnesses

There seems to be a particular danger to doing that. I think it is God allowing anyone put up on a pedestal to fall. He is well pleased in His son only. He wants us to heed His son, Jesus. We can only come to the Father through the Son. Jesus is the only way. I'm sure there are a dozen more examples to add to the list above. Maybe your son could see this and compare??? Maybe others could add to the list? I don't know of any former members in Alabama and Georgia area, but my spouse is trying to get us transferred to the southern border right now. Maybe in the future.....
02-16-2020 07:16 PM
Unregistered
Re: Can Anyone Help Our College Student?

Thank you all for the amazing feedback. We are making a plan to allow our son to step back from the LC group on campus for a while. Also, having him help to research the group more, with a plan. We our pouring our genuine love over him. We welcome anyone in Georgia or Alabama that can talk with him. We donít know enough about them to know if we should remain anonymous? How do we connect with someone? Sorry, first time in a forum online. The info and kindness the you all have given, are so very appreciated! God is good, all of the time. All of the time, God is Good!
02-16-2020 08:42 AM
aron
Re: Can Anyone Help Our College Student?

Quote:
Originally Posted by byHismercy View Post
My contact with the Local Church began on my college campus in Orange Co., California. I was newly saved by Christ, still living a very worldly life, but very lonely, and longing for Christian fellowship and friends, I was searching for connection and a church, and the awesome sweetness of others who knew the Lord Jesus. I didn't have any of that when the full time trainees approached me that day. I remember I was so alone in my new faith and new life in Christ, that I actually cried when they left me that day. I had family, kind and thoughtful friends and roommates, just absolutely no one who saw Jesus, or loved Him, or knew He was alive! He was on the throne! And He loved us!

The full timers came and visited me on campus and really reached out to me, caring for me, bringing me food, fellowship, and of course, the Lee ministry. They were love bombing me. This was effective as I came from a home where I did not feel loved....

The love and devotion they pour into lonely college kids is intense. I was invited into every Christian family home in that area for dinners, accepted at the families' tables as one of their own. The sweetness of the saints was touching and enticing. I never knew they could and would turn their love on or off as a tool to manipulate young believers. I know that now. And because I see this now, I feel ok before the Lord Jesus in saying that their love was just that, a tool, or a weapon, or a farce. It is not the Lords' love. They deceive the young into thinking that they have the love of Jesus. At least, that is what I used to believe. That I had stumbled into a group who had the real thing. The real Jesus. The real love of Christ. And by the way, that love-bombing is CULT 101. Every cult does that....
God can use these experiences to help us, and through us to help others. We didn't pass through the fire for nothing (Psa 66:12). We're measured, or known, or realised, through our ability to love. And we're effaced, or negated, or shut down, or lost, or limited, by our inability to love, by our lack of love.

My turning point in the LC was when I got into a public argument in the meeting with the FTTA 'trainer'. He said, "Don't waste your time" with those not deemed as "good building material", i.e. college students. The LSM wanted a return on investment, and they didn't see it coming from the old, the sick, the weak, and the poor. I argued that the Lord said when you give a feast, invite those who can't repay you.

I stayed for a while, but eventually left, tired of sitting in the same circle with the same few folks, congratulating ourselves on "arriving at the oneness" while those outside languished. True love, I felt, is poured out, dissipated, even (especially!!) on those who don't love you back. In the LC you only love ('love-bomb') those who can love back. It creates a cloistered, self-reinforcing system, where everyone's paranoid that they'll be deemed 'negative' or 'ambitious' or 'divisive' and the spigot of love will get turned off. Love then becomes a weapon, not a gift - it's a means of control. Cults do this all the time, as do controlling people in dysfunctional and abusive relationships. "If you love me, you'll do this for me". People fake-love others to open them and establish fear-based relations where they control, they take and not give... it's really the opposite of love. This pseudo-love comes from unresolved fear and shame, and opens the door for transfer, for fear-based, shame-based control and manipulation.

And so, we have an option. To love those who don't love us back. To tell the LC members what love actually is, by showing them what love is.... show them because we show one another (we bear with one another, encourage one another, console one another, listen to one another, pray for one another etc). Show the LC because we show everyone what love is. We forgive, we bear one another's burdens. Even if it's not reciprocated, we love, including those in the LC (as much as possible - also stay safe. cf Luke 14:31,32).

My point is that we show love because that's what Jesus did. He died there on the cross alone. His disciples had deserted him, his own people mocked him. Yet he loved. Why should we not try to follow?
02-15-2020 10:13 AM
Sons to Glory!
Re: Can Anyone Help Our College Student?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
How can we, as parents, find a group that he can talk with that was formally members? We know he will need to have conversations with folks that were once caught up in the LC. My heart breaks not only for our son, but for all of his current friends there on campus that do not have the familial support to intercede and help lead their children into finding their way into adulthood without strange oversight from the LC. If you are willing to discuss your story with us, I would appreciate the help. This forum is great, but I wish he could meet people who have been there and have come out. Thank you.
What area are you in? There are many ex-LC people around the country. Some meet together in small groups, without all the baggage that was the LC.
02-13-2020 04:43 AM
Nell
Re: Can Anyone Help Our College Student?

Parents,
Please review the ďAge TurnersĒ thread as much has been previously discussed on this forum by other parents in your situation. I brought it to the top with a handout I compiled years ago.
Nell

http://localchurchdiscussions.com/vB...ead.php?t=5378
02-12-2020 04:34 PM
aron
Re: Can Anyone Help Our College Student?

Quote:
Originally Posted by byHismercy View Post
The love and devotion they pour into lonely college kids is intense. I was invited into every Christian family home in that area for dinners, accepted at the families' tables as one of their own. The sweetness of the saints was touching and enticing. I never knew they could and would turn their love on or off as a tool to manipulate young believers.
Love is an intense emotion, blurs the senses. The young, especially, get all starry-eyed. Or teary-eyed. I know, I was there, once.

The way out, is twofold. First, to think. Ask yourself, why is this group so afraid of the new ones hearing everything? What is so scary about the truth? Would you fall in love and pledge your life to a young man or woman, only knowing half the truth about them? Does that bode well? The parents can ask these questions, and ask them aloud, before their young starry-eyed progeny. It is their duty.

Second, love desperately, intensely, passionately. Love the Lord, love the truth, (as much as you can figure it out), love your children unequivocally, love your proverbial neighbour who doesn't know Jesus or curses God. Be a person of love. Love the truth so much that you do the work to find out about Timothy Lee and the Daystar Motor Home Corporation, and Philip Lee as the LSM Office, about the details of the "storms" and "rebellions" that LC leadership doesn't want your son to hear about. Not to rub in your son's face, but to be armed to help not only him but his peers. He has cousins, classmates, neighbours too. So love the truth and be armed with it.

So - pursue truth passionately. Read the section in this website with the testimonies of Don Rutledge, Steve Isitt, John Ingalls, Jane Anderson, John Myer, the Casteels, former insiders who saw behind the veil, what leadership really was like. Then when your son asks questions, you'll be ready. When you know the history of the group better than he does, you will be ready to help him see what it really is. But you have to be willing to look. Jesus taught, "Seek and you will find." If you don't seek, you won't find. If you do seek, you will find. Pretty simple.

But let love lead you. Being a Christian isn't to force your journey on others, it is to be led so strongly and clearly by God's love in Christ Jesus, that others are inspired likewise to follow this love. Your son is an adult now (a child in an adult body, really, but still...) and you have to trust the Lord for the future. Just let yourself be led, strongly and clearly. God is in control. Surrender completely and constantly.

(Last suggestion. Seek help from spiritual advisers on campus. They may have resources. They may know ex-members.)
02-12-2020 03:04 PM
byHismercy
Re: Can Anyone Help Our College Student?

My contact with the Local Church began on my college campus in Orange Co., California. I was newly saved by Christ, still living a very worldly life, but very lonely, and longing for Christian fellowship and friends, I was searching for connection and a church, and the awesome sweetness of others who knew the Lord Jesus. I didn't have any of that when the full time trainees approached me that day. I remember I was so alone in my new faith and new life in Christ, that I actually cried when they left me that day. I had family, kind and thoughtful friends and roommates, just absolutely no one who saw Jesus, or loved Him, or knew He was alive! He was on the throne! And He loved us!

The full timers came and visited me on campus and really reached out to me, caring for me, bringing me food, fellowship, and of course, the Lee ministry. They were love bombing me. This was effective as I came from a home where I did not feel loved.

The fulltimers ushered me into home meetings, and later, Lords table meetings, whilst discouraging me from attending the 'Christian's on Campus' group, which was meeting on my campus. I did not know why they didn't want me participating there, but I trusted them and stayed away. I still to this day don't know why they would want to keep me separated from this segment of their own group. This kind of secretive, back door, high strangeness is a waving red flag to my 47 year old self. At that time, I was very naive to their possible motives in doing that.

The love and devotion they pour into lonely college kids is intense. I was invited into every Christian family home in that area for dinners, accepted at the families' tables as one of their own. The sweetness of the saints was touching and enticing. I never knew they could and would turn their love on or off as a tool to manipulate young believers. I know that now. And because I see this now, I feel ok before the Lord Jesus in saying that their love was just that, a tool, or a weapon, or a farce. It is not the Lords' love. They deceive the young into thinking that they have the love of Jesus. At least, that is what I used to believe. That I had stumbled into a group who had the real thing. The real Jesus. The real love of Christ. And by the way, that love-bombing is CULT 101. Every cult does that.

I don't know how to help your college student except to pray. Maybe you can give him or her a pseudonym to pray for him. God will know exactly who we are talking about! After we were shunned by this group, it helped me enormously to find and read the testimonies here. I really believed, because they were such devout believers, that their actions were the Holy Spirit, acting through them. This forum helped me see their ways had a pattern, and it was coming from a place of hiding their real beliefs, the sins of Lee, and burying those left behind with accusations. I also went to my Lord Jesus, and He kept shining His word into my heart, and highlighting for me every way of theirs which deviated from His word, from His heart for His children, and He was just there for me. He stayed with me through their shunning, and reassured me it was not Him shunning us. He was so present.

Years in the LC had convinced me when the brothers speak, it was God speaking. And when sisters speak, it might be the Lord speaking to me.

Man, was I ever wrong. What area is your college student in? Actually, you might not want to reveal too much....God bless you, I will pray!
02-12-2020 10:19 AM
Freedom
Re: Can Anyone Help Our College Student?

When I was in college, I was president of a campus club affiliated with the LC. In all instances that I am aware of, the club will act as an outreach arm of the LC in that city, and they do make a deliberate effort to hide that. Ultimately, it was that type of dishonesty that caused me to become disillusioned with the LC as a whole.

At some point soon after joining, they will usually tell new members to not believe anything "negative" that they hear regarding the group, so it doesn't take long before they are convinced to not listen to any outside information on the LC or even basic instinct.

I don't really know what kind of advice to give, but one thing that comes to mind is that among all the former members out there, it is worth noting that no one really has any personal vendetta against the LC. People left the LC due to what they experienced there. When former members speak to their experiences, the LC will write it off as "spreading rumors" or whatever else they try to call it. But at the end of the day, the fact that remains that there are so many former members who have all had less than positive experiences there. Those experiences are something most of us had little control over. It was a product of the environment.
02-12-2020 07:27 AM
Unregistered
Can Anyone Help Our College Student?

We just found out that our son is a member of this organization. He was lonely and was looking for a real Christian group to be a part of on campus. He is now bringing home the Recovery Bible and other things that do not seem to reflect the beliefs he held dear. The Chaplins of the local church live on the edges? Just off campus and continually visit him to bible study, plan events, etc. He was an A/B student and is now failing. He acts strangely now, very much emulating that of someone who is being influenced by the LC group, from what I have researched. He is the kind of kid that always wants to do what is right in the eyes of the Lord.

How can we, as parents, find a group that he can talk with that was formally members? We know he will need to have conversations with folks that were once caught up in the LC. My heart breaks not only for our son, but for all of his current friends there on campus that do not have the familial support to intercede and help lead their children into finding their way into adulthood without strange oversight from the LC. If you are willing to discuss your story with us, I would appreciate the help. This forum is great, but I wish he could meet people who have been there and have come out. Thank you.

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