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| 11-05-2021 09:27 AM | |||
| Robert |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Raptor:"[...]Talk about how in your experience their practice of pray-reading is wrong. But don´t throw out scriptural and healthy pray-reading. The Recovery does not have the copyright, monopoly or ownership over pray-reading". UntHim. My apologize! I went back to first post and here it is. During nice and sweet exchange with our experience we can forget easily some sentences. Now I understand what You meant. But, please also, do not expect, that always we will go back months to check how thread was developing. Usually we response ( I think) too last two or three posts. So, now I think we are clear what happened. !1The corporate practice of "pray-reading", as exercised in the Local Church of Witness Lee,2 is not scriptural. I totally agree with You and I guess StG also. We have two seperate problems here. 1. LC or actually WL made from experience rule and practice which is common mistake of denominations bringing division. Some people speak in tongues and some not. Some believe that this is from God some not. But those, who started demand it from brothers brought division at least. 2. Is it scriptural and healthy pray-reading? It depends on what we talk about? a.experience of reading and enjoying Word? b.practice itself as practice? b' individual practice? b" corporate practice? c. is it wherever mentioned in Bible? You added word "corporate reading" ( raptor did not) which also makes difference but only in case of debate about benefits for saints. Ad 1. By LR definition "pray-reading" and what we see in their teaching this is not biblical. Ad 2. a Yes, it is. Healthy and biblical. Ad 2. b' Yes, it is practiced. The whole Bible is full of this. Ad 2. b" Noooo! I mentioned this before. This is the most usless and fruitless practice I met there! Corporate reading. Sorry, guys... Ad 2. c Look at Ad 2,b' You was kind and honest to me so I will tell You also, that except my Englis my weak point is that I am chaotic and want to express everything fast and as much exactely I can. I learn from all of You so, thanks! I hope now we are more clear abou our understanding and I learned also sth new. Raptor:"[...]Talk about how in your experience their practice of pray-reading is wrong. But don´t throw out scriptural and healthy pray-reading. I think, I know what raptor meant. Key word is "scriptural" not "pray-reading'.I think he used unfortunate words. I think, a lot of "new words" accompanied me for long time. Other words: "do not throw the baby out with the bathwater" And also, main task was: "talk about how in your experience their practice was wrong". |
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| 11-05-2021 07:05 AM | |||
| UntoHim |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Maybe it would help you and my friend StG! if I clarified, once again. The corporate practice of "pray-reading", as exercised in the Local Church of Witness Lee, is not scriptural. This is all I have ever said about the subject, and this is all I am saying on this thread today. I do understand and appreciate that others have different views and understandings regarding this practice, and that's fine. No problem! But I must reiterate, once again, that slinging ad hominems at people (whether it be at those pro or those con) is not going to serve any purpose other than to sidetrack and distract. Robert, maybe you could get things back on track by providing some solid biblical evidence that corporate pray-reading, as practiced in the Local Church, is scriptural. Sure, you can throw in some points about your personal experience, but I think you might want to provide the biblical evidence first. - |
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| 11-04-2021 07:21 PM | |||
| Robert |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural I think, Unto Him, You have to calm down sometimes. It is You now who messed threads. Look at the topic... PRAY-READING IS SRIPTURAL. Yes? So in partially Your comment covers subject. The rest of burden You should release under thread like HERESIES OF LC? It sounds so much emotional saying "Experience has nothing to do". Yes, it has. Thanks to experience we have some knowledge, opinion about certain practice. Then we can judge if that works, if this is biblical or not. It counts! And I see You mixed really two extreme things. Pray- reading (son and You exchanged already god points) with totally heretical teachings. And who and were claimed that "it has sth to do? By tone You used last I assume, You had actually "horrendous individual experience". " little to do with our discussions regarding the false teachings and harmful and divisive practices." I take this thread as more general. This is Your interpretation, UntoHim. With full respect- Robert. |
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| 11-03-2021 01:10 PM | |||
| UntoHim |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Sorry Sons to Glory! but you are still missing the point. One's personal experience - good, bad or indifferent - has little to nothing to do with the fact that many of the teachings and practices in the Local Church of Witness Lee range from unbiblical all the way to rank heresy. One's personal experience - good, bad or indifferent - has little to nothing to do with the fact the Witness Lee taught that "Judaism is Satanic, Catholicism is demonic and Protestantism is christless" and that Protestant churches are "the daughter of the Great Whore". These absurd and heretical teachings are still in print and being taught in the LC movement to this very day. People - Christians and the general public - need to be warned about these teachings and practices. Some of us feel a great responsibility before the Lord and to our consciences to sound a warning. I myself never had one single "horrendous experience" in the Local Church. So what? That does not change the fact that people are being deceived. Many young people are being encouraged to attend the Local Church's faux seminary (aka Full-Time Training) There needs to be a place on the Internet that the can hear the testimonies of other church kids who were greatly damaged and even discouraged to point of turning away from the Faith. Testimonies regarding people's positive experience in the Local Church have always been welcomed here. No one has ever been discouraged, much, much less denied the opportunity to share their positive testimony and experiences on this forum. It's not likely one will receive a hardy round of "Amen’s", but if one is looking for affirmation of that sort they are always welcomed to visit one of the dozens of Local Church sponsored websites. - |
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| 11-03-2021 11:27 AM | |||
| Sons to Glory! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
And the corporate practice of pray-reading may be what many think of, which I agree is highly questionable as to the profit of such a rote practice, at least the way I remember it being done. |
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| 11-03-2021 11:10 AM | |||
| UntoHim |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural FYI, Robert, my dear brother Sons to Glory! needs to be corrected here. The vast majority of people that post here have not had a "horrendous individual experience" in the Local Church of Witness Lee, and even it they had it would have little to do with our discussions regarding the false teachings and harmful and divisive practices. One such harmful practice is the corporate practice of "Pray-Reading". The corporate pray-reading that is generally practiced in the Local Church is not scriptural. Maybe there is some profit in practicing such a thing in one's own personal/devotional time, but in my experience and observation over 40+ years, the pray-reading that takes place in corporate meetings is not helpful at all for young Christians and new believers. - |
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| 11-03-2021 08:19 AM | |||
| Sons to Glory! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
Other threads generally pertaining to this topic: How do you generally view the LC? What is the greatest error to come out of the LC? |
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| 11-03-2021 05:19 AM | |||
| Robert |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural " But to me, what the LC taught was just a prop, like a plant stake - once the plant has gotten strong enough, it doesn't need the stake at all . . . if that makes sense. " I use to say, all ministries wherever they comes from should be like plate in restaurant with food on it. Nobody is interested in plate it self but food! That is why saints become little by little hungry "Leebots". Like zombie. I had this feeling in situations like yours. Just try to share any other verse or try mention teacher or book out of LC! Strange look, silence, death... really? " It might have been OK to teach as a method I guess, to get people out of the habit of coming to the word in a dead way." You know what? I had always burden about live (zoe) in us and practicing all this stuff with love and live. If You take of name WL, head quarter in Anaheim and mind controlling wolf brothers, many of these practices could be effective in spiritual growth. I am also very thankful to God for that time there. Nott everything was corrupted in the beginning and not every person took it in mechanical way. And by the way, I mentioned somewhere, that WL in one book says that he afraids of people who will follow him without concern and take a books as school or manual books. Now it sounds perversely when we know that actually he established FTTL with white shirts and black pants. So how do You think, how is reconstructed brother or sister, which was honest and lovely person before FTTL? Till now I can not recognize them. They are not the same. Many word but still about taking good things In a way of life. For this we need fathers. Not WL, but simply brothers who can recognize needs of saints and serve a food at proper time. I do not know the whole story about Henry Hon, but it seems he had the same burden. Years ago we had also wind of this teaching about importance of home gathering. In my opinion, as long he just share and encourages saints it is ok. We do not see in Bible any central or head quarter in Jerusalem. So risk of change into sect is always. Even this is mentioned in WL works. I am so mad about Satan, that so many good thinks were recovered and discribed and even with such rich knowledge saint could become so corrupted, religious and hateful.Terrible! On one hand I rejected all things and books from LR, but I really appreciate what God showed me there. Picture of LC now is "shirt inside out". There is shirt, there are good points, very good teaching about symbols in Bible... but all we see in acts seems to contradict to what we read! I hope You catch what I think and feel. Our regenerated spirit connected to His Spirit. Ameeen! And I believed with all my heart that we know what we talk about! Pray-reading with open spirit. Ameeen! I was reading even today and I noticed first time in Act two stories about two prisons. ( Pter and Poul,take a look and compair. Have good meal! Share with me some time later). Listening others with open heart, mind and catching what they say, what not, and what wanted to say. Ameeen! ( from book " Character of God's Worker of WN). I still do practice. Listening with love. So You see, this is what hurts. Saint fully involved with their heart, watching, howe treasures recovered through the ages are made another deadly weapon ( no sarcasm at all, this is tragic and sad). For now I stop. I am really sad. I think there would be good to open new thread about "what good I took out from LR". What do You think? |
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| 11-02-2021 02:37 PM | |||
| Sons to Glory! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
The last time I was in a LC gathering was in Tacoma WA about 10 years ago. The high point was during the singing, which is generally better than many Christian gatherings I've been to (i.e., they weren't relying mainly on a band up front and put some heart into it). But aside from that, I had two main takeaways: 1) The sharing from various ones (there was no set message given) was all about Witness Lee writings . . . and I mean ALL of it. There was no spontaneous sharing of the experience of Christ, or seeing something from the word, or being inspired whatsoever (unless you count being inspired by WL teachings). I considered this part of the meeting to be very rote and fairly mechanical. (You could say that at least we heard from different ones, and that is good, in that most Christian groups don't have much in the way of open sharing. But again, I didn't really consider it open sharing, as there was a set time for this speaking, and they were basically told only to share things of WL from a particular set of morning-watch teachings.) 2) In my sharing of a fresh experience of visiting various non-LC gatherings to a brother there, things came to a screeching halt at that point. He was not open in the slightest to hear how I had enjoyed the Lord among a non-LC group! You are right about setting up rules and specific practices being manipulative. That is totally the case. The more we do that, the more we push the fresh experience of the Spirit right out the door. It is something to see and experience when the Spirit starts moving in a way that no man is controlling! Otherwise, it's like the Spirit says, "Oh, I see you've got everything handled, so you don't seem to need Me . . . I'll just take a seat and observe things from over there." Sorry to say, the LC has produced myriads of controls and has created this whole culture of exactly what to do, when, etc. But then again, man really likes to be in control, so this is our tendency and must be guarded against, lest the Spirit gets pushed out. No, the phrase "pray-reading" is not in scripture. Much like the word Trinity, but there does seem to be some scriptural basis for both. My reading of and praying with the word bears only little resemblance to what we were taught in the LC. It might have been OK to teach as a method I guess, to get people out of the habit of coming to the word in a dead way. But to me, what the LC taught was just a prop, like a plant stake - once the plant has gotten strong enough, it doesn't need the stake at all . . . if that makes sense. Yes, thank God you were reading the Bible more than WL! |
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| 11-02-2021 02:02 PM | |||
| Robert |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
Last years I discovered that I can listen audio Bible on earphones before I go sleep or driving car. In the evening I do not have to strain my eyes and this is very different when somebody is "telling You Word". Wonderful experience. We can always read together with prayer out loud. I think simply, that instead of doing this spontaneously (there is no need to make a practice of it or tool) LC but especially WL gave a tool for saints. So experience is one thing but religion another. If You can, share also what is Your experience from meetings? I do not want to judge others, but believe me, tone, and lamentation and feeling emptiness was common. As long meeting is in reality, simplicity, in love, everything is ok and natural. But I do afraid WL sold us product called "church live" with set of tools and practices. As I mentioned, it does not work this way that this is a rule to touch God. Unfortunately teaching is clear: do this or that, and fruits will come. As long You share with me, I share with You, it is ok. This is our experience. No doubt and no discuss. Even experience described in WN's book is not so dangerous. But when You train people at FTTL, or video trainings, teaching that this is a rule, way, this is manipulating and simply setting up another religion with set of believes and practices. I would repeat after Trapped: where it is written in Scripture? Ps. 119 is full about Word and commandments, thinking, considering. But words pray-reading? So You see, we ca approach to subject as open brothers sharing experiences, or debating upon new definitions or practices never mentioned in the Bible. LR is so complicated, that now I enjoy simplicity of God's Word. Sola Scriptura. Just reading and acting. I had many definitions and brainwashing last decades. But thanks God I was reading more Bible than WL works. If You have some observation from meetings, share, please. |
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| 11-02-2021 01:08 PM | |||
| Sons to Glory! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
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| 11-02-2021 11:56 AM | |||
| Robert |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural I was not on FTTL cause we got baby and they rejected us. I knew other couples where one spouse could participate. But that was in 90'. After years I am thankful for God's arrangement and prevention. Instead of PSRP I got PTSD! When I hear long Ameeeeeen! Or 'Oooooooh, Loooooord Jeeeeeesuuussss! I feel sick! There is hidden breathing technique. Coming to pray reading. Yes, I fully agree, we can experience this in intimate time with Word of God. This is my experience especially in first years of my christian life. When I was reading, I was touched by God, by His Word so much, that I was crying, amazed, and repeating verses. That was so beautiful. That is why I was drawn and convinced and happy, that WN had the same. I was naive at that time. So yes, we can experience reading and contacting in prayer with the Lord! And, yes, for sure this is the best way of approaching to Bible. Not with mind only, but with open heart and in prayer. But do we really have to name everything and make definitions? WL even eternal live could put in practice by exercising spirit! I only hope that God was not disturbing him... But I never accepted, that only by repetition we are able to experience it, and by our power or work enforce Holy Spirit to come. God is not sandwich machine! You put coin in and sandwich pop up! I've never understood this practice and to be honest, if I did it, it was weak, and only several times. And IF I got any nourishment from this it was by Grace and my open heart This practice is only proving man's control and WL's conception to find a perfect method. I am ready to believe, that WL was simply, humble brother, who wanted the best for church. But I do afraid also, that all deceived false teachers was like that. That was my two cents about pray reading. |
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| 07-28-2021 06:20 PM | |||
| Ohio |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
PSRP had nothing to do with the Bible or the word of God. It really had nothing to do with prayer. It was all about WL's increasingly esoteric and aberrant doctrines such as GBMtMMG-ILaNbNitGH. And remember ... that god-man talk had nothing to do with some "high peak" divine revelation. Nonsense. It was simply a diversionary tactic to redirect the attention of the Recovery away from the so-called rebellion of John Ingalls, Bill Mallon, John So, etc. who spoke up about Philip Lee's predatory ways on the sisters serving at LSM. (Think Harvey Weinstein and the #MeToo movement 30 years before their time.) |
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| 07-28-2021 02:27 PM | |||
| gr8ful |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
Eventually "PSRP" became kind of an inside joke brothers would use to razz one another. As is, "yo, man, you seem mad. Maybe you need to PSRP that." Akin to "yo, bro, y u mad? TURN TO YOUR SPIRIT!" The main benefit of PSRP was to memorize long banners and outlines with long, precisely-written paragraphs so we could stand at the mic and repeat it back to much enthusiastic applause. Quite different than reading the Scripture in an attitude of prayerfulness. |
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| 07-28-2021 02:09 PM | |||
| Ohio |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
 Quote:
Here's the first point of refutation: No place in the book, or in church history for that matter, is the Recovery practice of public "pray-reading" of meeting handouts endorsed. Here's another: the phrase "pray-reading," to the best of my knowledge, is never mentioned in the book. It is a Recovery invention, with no support in church history. Even Graver's sub-title says: "... the Intimate and Vital Relationship between God's Word and Prayer." All Christians would agree with that, eh? |
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| 07-28-2021 12:38 PM | |||
| UntoHim |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Just couldn't resist, could you Ohio. You just had to answer my relevant and pertinent question with another question. Hey, at least you didn't flame me....so I guess you're batting .500 and that aint bad!  Ok, does anybody have an electronic copy of Thou Saidst? It seems to me that LSM may have a free online version somewhere? Of course I already addressed the contentions set forth in this booklet earlier on the thread, but hey, I'm game. Let's hash it over again. I must tell you all, however, that the discussion will probably not be too "production or condusive" if nobody wants to address the real issue at hand - What did Witness Lee teach about "Pray-Reading"? And how is it practiced in the Local Church by the majority of members? I don't see how we can get anywhere by comparing Andrew Murray or any of the others because what they have written is biblical and what is taught and practiced in the Local Church is not biblical. - |
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| 07-28-2021 11:39 AM | |||
| Unregistered |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Greetings! It is only my opinion that Ohio has stated some thoughts well in his last post on pray-reading. Witness Lee did use Ephesians 6:17-18 as a basis for using the Word to pray. We should not merely look at pray-reading as something only Witness Lee encouraged and taught from the Bible. A careful study of church history will find that so many believers used the Word to help them in their prayer time. Martin Luther said "the best prayer book is the Bible." He shared his experiences of using the Word to mix in-between his prayer. Madame Guyon, a spiritual Catholic, recommended pray-reading. Andrew Murray also encouraged this practice. Could it be that there have been some pray-reading experiences among some believers that really "are not the best example" of what real pray-reading is meant to be? I think that this very discussion will help all of us readers to pray-read the proper way, and not mindless shouting and empty repeating the same words. The loud voice in heaven in Revelation 19:1-4, repeating of "Hallelujah" and "Amen" at least 3 times certainly is not vain repeating of the same words. Amen and Hallelujah are the praises of the saints for Christ's victory. And do not think that I sit around and read only WN and WL publications. I recently came across a portion in a publication by K.C. Hinkley in his "A Compact Guide to the Christian Life." On page 43 he asks the question, "How is Christian meditation different from what is done in Eastern religions?" He then states, "The meditation practiced in Eastern religions is a matter of emptying your mind and opening yourself up spiritually to whatever voice or influence happens. Christian meditation aims to focus the mind in openness to God's voice, and no other." And then further he states on page 44, "Christians use the word meditation to describe two slightly different things. The first is a directed, focused thinking in which you mull over a passage of Scripture to draw out its meat. The second is a kind of prayer. It is related to meditating on Scripture that is intended to quiet your brain enough to let God's Word to sink into your heart." A growing believer may find his mind to be troublesome with all the anxieties of this age that we live in, so I feel it is fitting for K.C. Hinkley to point out that we can "quiet your brain enough to let God's Word sink into your heart." Lastly on page 81, Hinkley states that meditation is "digesting a scriptural truth by chewing on it over and over until you understand it." Another publication that I have greatly benefitted is written by Terry Bowland entitled, "Make isciples!:Reaching the Postmodern World for Christ." He discusses how to approach friends and people to reach them and share the good news of the gospel. This book has been a great help to my patience towards sinners and has helped me to listen to people with a concern and care, all the while intending to look for an opportunity to share the gospel with them. I hope we all can take a moment after considering this matter of pray-reading and delight ourselves in prayer over God's Word. |
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| 07-28-2021 10:07 AM | |||
| Ohio |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
Wouldn't it be more productive, and conducive to the discussion between present and former LC members to direct the posters to address pray-reading as documented in the book, “Lord Thou Saidst…” as Raptor attempted to do when he started the thread? All of us would agree that mindless chanting of words and phrases from some message outline published by LSM is akin to vain babbling, which Jesus Himself warned us about. Yet, as the book, “Lord Thou Saidst…” highlights, many renowned men of God have prayed the scriptures, and Paul also seemed to recommend in Eph 6.17-18. Having visited with many diverse Christians, post Recovery, I found that many brothers and sisters have prayed the verses from the Bible, turning verses into heartfelt personal prayer to God, not robotically according to some prescribed LSM formula, but spontaneously or inspirationally as they perused God's word. Wouldn't you agree? Isn't it better to "cut straight the word of the truth" (2 Tm 2.15) on this point, separating the good from the worthless (Heb 5.14), so that the readers could grow and be profited? |
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| 07-28-2021 09:27 AM | |||
| UntoHim |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Maybe we can try to limit the breadth of the conversation to try and answer this question: Is the practice of Pray-Reading AS TAUGHT BY WITNESS LEE AND PRACTICED BY HIS FOLLOWERS actually scritpural? I know that it is very easy for some of us to get offended by the mere asking of such questions. But I would ask you to step back, take a deep breath, and open your Bible. Please show us the verses that would confirm, by way of prescription, or at least description, this practice as it was taught by Witness Lee and as it has been practiced in the Local Church/Lord's Recovery. Let's all try to do our best to not get sidetracked by answering this question with another question, or by obvuscating the matter at hand by retorting with ad hominems and flaming other posters. - |
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| 07-28-2021 08:29 AM | |||
| Ohio |
Re: Pray-reading is scriptural Quote:
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| 07-28-2021 07:51 AM | |||
| Doer |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Dont worry Nell, I got this. To the Unregistered user who is trying to engage in the semantics of the word "mindless", I have a much more accurate description of your so called "pray reading" that attempts to "contact God" So what is it? Well we all know what is coming up in a moment and for some reason the LR tends to ignore these for our lords from Jesus Christ. Matthew 6:7- 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. Heathen vain repetition, the classic LR practice of "getting out of your mind". So if you were "in your mind" while pray reading, you are doing it wrong according to the LR brother/sister. Dont you know you are supposed to "get out of your mind"? Putting aside the humor in this nonsensical cultural practice, pray reading is just heathen vain repetition that leads one to think they will be heard by our lord for their "many words". |
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| 07-28-2021 07:15 AM | |||
| Nell |
Re: Pray-reading is scriptural Quote:
Thanks for stopping by. Nell |
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| 07-27-2021 11:05 PM | |||
| sinnersavedbygrace |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Amen, I agree with you Nell. |
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| 07-27-2021 10:16 PM | |||
| Unregistered |
Re: Pray-reading is scriptural Hi Nell, if I am praying and my mind wanders a teeny bit to think of something else, does than mean I am mindless? Seems to me that means I switched thoughts, but not mindlessness. Thoughts of believers may drift and wander at times during prayer, but this still is not mindlessness. No Nell, I have never been mindless and that is not an exaggeration. Social science experts would probably have some helpful input for a person if they have a mindless experience, especially if they are conscious, don't you think so? |
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| 07-27-2021 07:30 PM | |||
| Nell |
Re: Pray-reading is scriptural Quote:
Do you mean to imply that because you have never, never, ever mindlessly repeated scripture, no one else in the LC has either? Are you sure you didn’t slip up once or twice and let your mind wander just a teeny-weeny bit…in 30 years??? Sorry but I think you are exaggerating. Never, never, ever in 30 years is a long stretch. Do you think we never pray when we read the Bible? We may not observe the LC “pray read” format, but I’m pretty sure we dear Christians find praying over our reading time edifying in our journey. Nell |
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| 07-26-2021 08:17 AM | |||
| Unregistered |
Re: Pray-reading is scriptural Quote:
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| 07-12-2021 03:47 PM | |||
| Bubbles! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
Hey, didn't Jesus Himself pray-read that way? Didn't He even pump His fist with every word? I think that he even carried an ''elder bag!'' |
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| 10-07-2019 11:44 AM | |||
| Sons to Glory! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural And I don't see anything wrong with that either. Also: "Lord, help me/us put on Your full armor!" is something I would pray now. |
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| 10-07-2019 10:51 AM | |||
| countmeworthy |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural I think Ephesians 6 makes a compelling statement of proof that praying the Word aka 'pray reading' is scriptural. Here goes: Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. 11 Put on the full armor of God...... in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God. 18 With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, So as an example of how I was taught to pray read, it went something like this: saint # 1 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. saint #2 "LORD. We put on the Full Armor of God. saint #3 Yes Lord. We put on the Full Armor of God.. that we may be able to stand firm. saint #4 Yes! We STAND FIRM. OH!! LORD! WE put on the Full Armor of God that we may be able to STAND FIRM against the schemes of the devil. And yes.. the saints would resound 'AMEN' after every phrase. Nothing wrong with that. But I don't pray read like that anymore and neither do I 'pray read' with people either. just my experience. |
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| 10-06-2019 12:57 PM | |||
| countmeworthy |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
Quote:
No worship... no praise.. no thanksgiving..except when we were singing from the hymnal in particular during the Lord's supper. |
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| 10-06-2019 12:37 PM | |||
| countmeworthy |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
It's been a work in progress learning to tweek the pray reading I learned in the LC back in 1975 when we used the bible..but as STG wrote Using scripture in genuine prayer is the most natural way to speak to God. It is how we receive true revelation and understanding from God the Holy Spirit living and operating in our spirit. Praise the Holy Name of Jesus. |
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| 10-06-2019 11:08 AM | |||
| Raptor |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
1. pray-reading is scriptural 2. my experience of corporate pray-reading in the LC has been good. Why don´t you start a thread like I suggested already about how the practice of pray-reading as done in the LC is unscriptural and unhealthy.That is what you are talking about, not me. |
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| 09-30-2019 05:27 PM | |||
| Sons to Glory! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
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| 09-30-2019 02:21 PM | |||
| OBW |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
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| 09-30-2019 01:01 PM | |||
| awareness |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Stay connected brother. There's no reason not to. God is omnipresent. |
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| 09-30-2019 11:26 AM | |||
| Sons to Glory! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural I have read and studied scripture for some time, but none of it compares with one flash of light from the Lord! I've had this a number of times - thought I really knew the scripture, but truly didn't get it until the light came. So I must disagree with all the studying being the key. Light from Him is the key. But in any case, whether one pray-reads or studies, it is His light that makes all the difference! Okay, we are connected with Christ. Put in Him by God. Seated with Him in the heavenlies. So nothing we do makes any difference? What then do we make of the numerous exhortations to "walk in spirit"? Is there nothing we do that makes any difference? Why is there an accounting for "things done in the body"? (2 Cor 5:10) Why are we exhorted to build with the right materials, namely gold, silver and precious stone? Again, doing anything in a rote way has no profit. But things we do according to the Spirit will have profit (like pray-reading that really reaches out to touch Him in spirit). |
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| 09-30-2019 11:15 AM | |||
| awareness |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Anybody can pray-read or not ... with others or not ... in meetings or not. If you want to understand scripture, personally I think the time would be better spent reading scholarly studies of the scriptures. But that's me. The tragic fallacy is, perhaps, that it is an effort to connect with God. The tragedy is that it implies a disconnect. Since it's impossible to disconnect from God, pray-reading is a superfluous activity. But to each his or her own. |
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| 09-30-2019 10:38 AM | |||
| Sons to Glory! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
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| 09-30-2019 10:10 AM | |||
| UntoHim |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
Thanks for your clarification about Scottsdale. - |
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| 09-30-2019 09:41 AM | |||
| Sons to Glory! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
BTW: I don't remember ever doing it corporately here in Scottsdale . . . but there's also nothing against it here that I know of (just as if someone wanted to speak in tongues or do foot-washing). I did witness one brother who tried to introduce it a couple times at a smaller gathering he was running, but it didn't catch on very well. |
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| 09-29-2019 07:35 PM | |||
| awareness |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
So she talked her husband and another bank officer into going to a meeting. They were behind me in the meeting, and when her husband saw the meeting, pray-reading, calling, and all, I heard him tell his buddy : "These people are a half bubble off level." And he knew nothing of the Bible. |
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| 09-29-2019 07:21 PM | |||
| UntoHim |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
There is a very good reason why many, if not most, Christians who visit the Local Church are turned off when they encounter corporate pray-reading - and it's not because they are moo-cows who are not used to the heavenly music - it's because it doesn't match what they have read in the Word, or what they have experienced in corporate gatherings and worshiping with legitimate, orthodox Christian churches and ministries. Many of the references given by Raptor and others do exemplify "scriptural and healthy" pray-reading, but none of them are what I would consider even faintly close to what is practiced in the Local Church. I was in Orange County California for many years during the LC heyday of the 1970s. I "set my clock for 6 O'Clock" to be "right on time for the morning watch!" I was with hospitality from all over the country and the world - with hundreds of saints - and the practice of pray-reading was virtually uniform as I recall. I have been to a number of Local Church meetings and conference meetings in the last few years - still the same practice. Still not scriptural. Still not healthy. I apologize to my valued and esteemed brother Raptor. I know it seems like I'm just trying to be contrary, but actually I'm trying to speak the truth in love as I know it. It seems to me that you and Sons toGlory! have tried to make the case that pray-reading as it has been practiced in the Local Church is scriptural and healthy, yet you brothers have not been able to make any such case. And I'm here to tell you that there is no such case to be made. - |
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| 09-29-2019 11:17 AM | |||
| Raptor |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural I have been to gazillion different meetings while in the LC with all kinds of pray-reading, done in different ways, to different degrees, different expressions; much, little, loud, soft, repetitive, quick, spontaneous, planned, living, not so living, etc. etc. etc. As a conclusion, in my experience, it has been overall pretty good, some experiences have been outstanding. The main negative thing that I have observed is when we fell into a routine and not turn the heart to the Lord, not address Him, not come to Him, not open to Him. This is a common mistake that can happen anywhere. The Lord taught against this numerous times, saying things like, your lips honor Me but your hearts are far away from Me, you search the scriptures....but you do not come to Me. Whether personal or corporate pray-reading, it is a good, I would say even crucial aspect of the christian life and the practice of the church. |
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| 09-11-2019 07:33 AM | |||
| Sons to Glory! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural FYI - Just read a passage in Dietrich Bonhoeffer's book, "Life Together" (circa 1930s), which went over meditation in the word. It really sounded like pray-reading, even though he didn't call it that. He wrote, "The consideration of Scripture leads into prayer. We have already said that the most promising way to pray is to allow oneself to be guided by the words of the Bible, to pray on the basis of the words of Scripture. In this way we will not fall prey to our own emptiness. Prayer means nothing more than to appropriate the Word, to let it speak to me in my personal situation, in my particular tasks, decisions, sins, and temptations." (pages 62-63 of my particular edition, the chapter titled "The Day Alone") |
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| 09-02-2019 02:16 PM | |||
| Ohio |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
Every practice is just that. "A" practice. Most any practice can be a help, and every practice can be abused. Church history is filled with stories. There are thousands of diverse practices in churches, but Paul did tell Timothy to "give attendance to the reading" of scripture. (I Timothy 4.6-16) The LC's I was part of used this scripture to support the practice.
The problem with public "pray-reading" as orchestrated by LSM was the departure of God's glory from their temple. Without the Spirit of reality, the practice morphed into something unrecognizable to Christians. Something called PSRP was introduced in 1993. The practice departed from what any of us would call "prayer," or "reading the scripture." It became shouting and repeating the outlines of Lee. Today it is worse. They now shout and repeat the outlines of the Blendeds supposedly based on the outlines of Lee. |
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| 09-02-2019 09:47 AM | |||
| Sons to Glory! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Well said UtH! |
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| 09-02-2019 09:31 AM | |||
| UntoHim |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Many thanks to Raptor for all the good references that show what "Pray-Reading" should really look like. I would note that virtually all of the references given show this to be an INDIVIDUAL practice, and not something for use in a corporate setting, such as is done in the Local Church of Witness Lee. Christians have been practicing pray reading since the beginning as part of any mature Christians daily divisional time. Many different words and terms have been used, but the basic concept is exactly the same - praying the Word of God back to the Lord. I must be honest and point out that none of the references provided look anything like the pray reading that is practiced in the Local Church...not even close really. And again, none of them reference practicing pray reading in a corporate setting, which is a bread and butter practice in the Local Church. So is "Pray Reading" as it is outlined in the various references given on this thread scriptural? Absolutely! Is "Pray Reading" as it is practiced in the Local Church of Witness Lee scriptural? Absolutely Not! Ok, now we can conclude - |
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| 09-02-2019 08:38 AM | |||
| Sons to Glory! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
And I second Raptor's motion regarding the dead-horse-beating on this subject!  I move to affirm that it's a good and scriptural practice (again, of course not in the mechanical/mindless LC way of doing it). |
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| 09-02-2019 08:13 AM | |||
| micah6v8 |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural My view is that scripture can be used as a basis for conversation with God since scripture is God's spoken word. But simply plucking one verse to pray-read (e.g. just selecting the one or two bible verses that appear in the daily portion of a Morning Revival book) probably might not be helpful unless you already are familiar with the verse and its context. |
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| 09-02-2019 07:29 AM | |||
| Raptor |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Here are the last 3 references about pray-reading outside the LC that I found in a simple Google search. I think we can reasonably conclude that pray-reading is scriptural, it has a rich history both in the Bible and in christian practice. How to Pray-Read Scripture – Gary Wiens (video and article) https://thekeyofdavid.wordpress.com/...ead-scripture/ Jesus called us to abide in Him. The foundation of this reality means talking with Him. We do this best as we pray-read the Word, which is simply speaking its truths back to Him as we read it. Learning how to dialogue with God in the scriptures is like opening your mouth under the waterfall. When you learn how to take the word of God and pray it back to Him, in a conversational way, that word begins to live inside and begins to ignite your heart in a powerful way. Scripture prayer for our children (audio) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zpEv0JZNyI Praying the scriptures is POWERFUL. The WORD of GOD will not return to HIM void. We must intercede and speak the WORD of GOD over our children. The thief comes to steal, kill and destroy. But JESUS has come that we may have life; and have it more abundantly. Speak LIFE over our children. ENGAGING GOD IN THE WORD: PRAY-READING THE WORD – Jeff Mootz http://www.uhopsf.com/sermons/engagi...reading-bible/ Jesus corrected the leaders of his day and told them that their bible study life was not enough to connect with His heart. They needed to take the scriptures and engage in a Holy Spirit dialogue with God as a Person in order to receive life. God’s life is imparted to us as we prayerfully speak His Words to Him. The truths of the actual passages are imparted to us as we talk to Him about them. |
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| 08-28-2019 07:53 AM | |||
| Raptor |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural more examples of other non-LC believers sharing/teaching about pray-reading. (not endorsing any group) How to Pray-Read the Word - Mike Bickle https://tinyurl.com/y5j9wvm3 https://www.ihopkc.org/resources/ass..._MB/auto/true/ VIDEO When I moved from a purely “study mode” to a “dialogue mode” when reading the Bible, it changed my spiritual life. I began my journey into what I term “pray-reading” the Word. I could feel His presence in a greater way. I began to love God’s Word. When I look back on over forty years of walking with Jesus, I realize that pray-reading the Word—using the Bible as the “conversational material” in my prayer life—has been the single most significant activity in my spiritual life. This simple activity is essential to abiding in Christ. Teaching Kids to Pray When Reading the Bible https://www.futureflyingsaucers.com/...reading-bible/ Encourage your kids to pray asking God to give them understanding of the verses they are about to see. Have them pray that the Holy Spirit would help them to focus on the insights he will reveal. Then have your children read for their quiet time. Even better, if they are situated in a prayer place, ask them to whisper the scripture out loud. That way they are seeing AND hearing the words. As the Holy Spirit works, he will cause the words to come alive and, at times, be sharper than a two-edged sword. If you have Bible reading at the same time, when it ends, have everyone gather together. Lead your children to pray that they will obey what they read and that the Holy Spirit will remind them of the scriptures when needed. Pray as a group until the habit is formed. Praying the Bible – Samuel Whitefield https://samuelwhitefield.com/239/praying-the-bible Pray reading is where, as you read, you turn phrases and verses into prayer and basically dialog with the Lord over the Scripture. This is much slower than just reading the passage, but also helps bring real life into the passage and helps apply it deeper to your heart. (But) What I mean by “Praying the Scriptures” is extracting key phrases, promises of rewards, commands, warnings, and blessings from a book of the Bible or a passage of Scripture and creating a prayer list from these verses. |
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| 08-27-2019 05:59 AM | |||
| Ohio |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
The real danger people face with WL and today's Blendeds is their use and misuse of Biblical semantics -- they take spiritual realities and distort their meanings for personal gains. "Pray-reading" the Bible is just one of a long list. Another example is their abuse and distortion of the "oneness" of the believers. |
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| 08-26-2019 08:41 PM | |||
| countmeworthy |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
I went to grade school and high school with some classmates from first to 12th grade. We all learned how to write using the same method. But by the time we were in high school, no one wrote the same way we were taught. We all had our own writing personalities if you will. Yet we all had the SAME foundation from the same teacher(s) I liken pray reading in the LC back in 1975 in my locality as a teaching tool to pray God's Word back to Him.. I am sorry "pray reading' has done nothing for your brain. It has had a very positive effect on me an on many others. Also..I just don't call it 'pray reading'..the LC term nor do I recite God's Word as we were taught back in the day. Hope you are doing well. |
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| 08-26-2019 04:56 PM | |||
| Sons to Glory! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
So yes, Awareness, I can see why you'd think that from some of the corporate "one-up-manship" type of corporate pray-reading sessions I've experienced in the LC. |
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| 08-26-2019 07:30 AM | |||
| UntoHim |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural At times, that's what happened in the Local Church of Witness Lee. For some it was a way to "enjoy" and get something from the Word in a way that transcended common mental comprehension. I personally don't think there is much to gain from this kind of practice in a corporate setting, but I think it can help some in their personal daily devotional time. |
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| 08-26-2019 07:22 AM | |||
| awareness |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Pray-reading is a way to numb the brain. |
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| 08-26-2019 06:48 AM | |||
| Raptor |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural examples of other non-LC believers sharing/teaching about pray-reading. (not endorsing any group) 10 Ways to Pray the Word of God-Debbie Przybylski, Wesley and Stacey Campbell https://www.crosswalk.com/faith/pray...rd-of-god.html I encourage you to start pray-reading the Word of God on a regular basis. You will be amazed at all that God has to say to you from His Word as you dialogue with Him. You will grow in your effectiveness in prayer, as God leads you into thrilling depths and greater heights in your relationship with Him. When we pray-read the Bible, God teaches us in a way that is tailor-made for us personally. The Holy Spirit prays through us and gives us new insights as we pray. How to Pray-Read the Bible - Benjamin Schäfer https://yearningheartsjourney.blogsp...rd-of-god.html One way to significantly increase your time and pleasure with the written Word of God is to start praying it instead of merely reading it. Instead of reading it for information or to fulfill our bible reading plan assignments, we actually take it as God's personal word to us and use it to feed and guide our conversation with Jesus. We take the Word and pray it back to Him. Simply taken, it means having a conversation with God using His Word. This is called "pray-reading" the Word. The Latent Power of God: Pray-Reading - Armando Rodriguez https://www.amazon.in/Latent-Power-G.../dp/B00UZFZT88 In the past, it has been my custom to read through the Scripture on a daily basis. I have enjoyed doing so, but when I began to Pray-Read God’s Word, it changed me. As I mingle it with prayer, it has fanned to flame new desires. I have begun to see and hear God more often. My prayers are being answered. I find myself filled with a joy that I had not previously known. The Words of the Bible are being embedded into my thought patterns. I welcome the transformation even though I do not fully understand it. I have discovered a Source of Power that renews, revives, refreshes, fills, comforts, and empowers. This type of prayer has taken the word dull out of my Christian experience and has infused me with peace that surpasses all understanding. |
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| 08-23-2019 08:11 AM | |||
| Sons to Glory! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural In my mind I think it is well established that pray-reading is a good thing - Biblically grounded - that has been practiced by many historically, as a way to talk to God, draw closer to Him and be nourished in spirit. So what is it exactly that the LC does with this that is off the mark? (it may seem like a rhetorical, but I wonder what others would say) |
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| 08-23-2019 07:19 AM | |||
| Raptor |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural examples of other non-LC believers sharing/teaching about pray-reading. (not endorsing any group) How to Pray Scripture and Deepen Your Prayer Language – Kathryn Shirey https://www.kathrynshirey.com/praying-scripture-how-to/ Praying Scripture back to God is a powerful way to pray deep and build your prayer language. What better way to honor our majestic God than to use His own words to praise Him and pray to Him? It’s also a way to dig deeper into scripture while you pray. Let the Spirit lead you in prayer through God’s words, build your prayer vocabulary, and use scripture as your guide for prayer. Praying through scripture has been a game-changer for my prayer life and helps me hear God more clearly. Every time I dive into God's Word in my prayers, I find my prayers become stronger, more expansive, and more connected to God. Using the Bible to Pray: How to Turn Your Bible Reading Into a Conversation with God – Bethany McIlrath https://livingbydesign.org/bible-rea...versation-god/ Prayer is a two-way conversation based on listening to God and having a conversation with Him through His Word. The goals of Bible-reading and prayer intertwine—both are ways of connecting with God for the purpose of growing in, serving, and glorifying Him. I’d encourage you to turn to God through His Word and begin praying over His Word as you read it. |
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| 08-22-2019 02:55 PM | |||
| Bubbles! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural Quote:
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| 08-22-2019 12:51 AM | |||
| Raptor |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural examples of other non-LC believers sharing/teaching about pray-reading. (not endorsing any group) “Pray-Reading” the Scriptures~Matthew http://www.incensearise.com/blogs/pr...ipturesmatthew I don’t want to be guilty of reading the word without coming to the Lord while I read the Bible. By coming to Him, I mean connecting with Him, talking to Him while I read the verses. John 5:39-40, what this verse describes is lifeless religion with no connection, no conversation with the Lord in the study of His Holy word. These simple applications of prayer while we read the word are huge. It helps us engage with the Lord and “come to Him”. DO YOU "PRAY-READ" THE BIBLE? – Joshua Hawkins http://www.joshuahawkins.com/blog/20...ray-read-bible It is not enough to simply study the Word, but we must give our heart to God and receive from Him as we read it. We must allow it to create an active dialogue with God - it in itself is the “conversational material” the Lord has given us to interact with Him. We must actually speak the Word back to God and against Satan’s attack on our lives. Many do not speak the Word back to God or against Satan and only speak it to others. Pray-reading is so simple and so powerful that anyone can do it. But at the same time it is so simple that very few actually do it. I can guarantee you that if you put this into practice in your life and do it consistently, your desires will change, your hunger for the Lord will increase, your heart will be alive like never before. Pray-reading the Bible Paperback – 1998 By Lillie O Rogers https://www.amazon.com/Pray-reading-.../dp/B0006R4QO8 out of print HOW TO GET A COPY? |
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| 08-21-2019 09:53 AM | |||
| Sons to Glory! |
Re: Pray-Reading is Scriptural I am most thankful for praying the word, turning the word into prayer, and just talking to Him with the word. This has become a 2nd nature thing. With the scripture devotional I use each morning (Daily Light), I just take those verses and get them into me, thank Him for what He has done, and/or turn them into little prayers. Very nourishing (aka the eating and drinking Jesus thread)! In our business we talk about affirmations for people to use to sort of "reprogram their minds." And if I have the freedom with a particular class, I will tell them that scripture is the best "affirmation" of all to say over and over to themselves, to write it down, to tell others, etc.! 
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| 08-21-2019 07:04 AM | |||
| ZNPaaneah |
Re: Pray-reading is scriptural Quote:
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| 08-21-2019 06:01 AM | |||
| Ohio |
Re: Pray-reading is scriptural Quote:
Initially many LC practices were healthy because they were gleaned from the rest of Christianity. Then pride crept in and distortions took over ... you know the story. |
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| 08-21-2019 01:35 AM | |||
| Raptor |
Re: Pray-reading is scriptural examples of other non-LC believers sharing/teaching about pray-reading. (not endorsing any group) If You Don’t Pray, You Won’t Live – John Piper (video) https://tinyurl.com/y5bd6pps Take what you read in the Bible and turn it into prayer….Use the Bible and turn the Bible into prayer. Read, pray; read, pray; read, pray; read, pray as long as you want to or as long as you can. Pray Reading the Bible - YWAM https://ywamnashville.org/dts-prep-w...ing-the-bible/ “The Bible becomes my prayer manual. I will come across the promise of a verse like John 6:35. I will turn that verse into prayer. I will say “God, you said that anyone who comes to your Son will experience a fullness and satisfaction in this life. Will you release that promise in my life? Jesus come satisfy my soul, come and meet my desire for fulfillment and exhilaration! Help me to not look for this desire to be fulfilled with worldly things which will never truly satisfy me.” If you haven’t already, wake up before the demands of your day start taking over. If you are not used to spending a lot of time before the Lord take ½ hour and begin pray-reading the Word.” |
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| 08-20-2019 08:14 PM | |||
| JJ |
Re: Pray-reading is scriptural I agree with you two and have similar experiences. Mindless repeating of scripture .... dropped. Picking up the sword of the Spirit which is The Word of God by means of all prayer and petition... retained with joy! |
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| 08-20-2019 04:51 PM | |||
| countmeworthy |
Re: Pray-reading is scriptural I have not had time to post much but I frequently read the posts. I appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments suffice to say. I want to pipe in for a few minutes here and then again in another thread. So I too was taught to 'pray read' the scriptures when I first got saved and came into the LC back in 1975. 'Pray reading' helped me retain the scriptures. To God be all the Glory for what I am going to write next. People often tell me how amazed they are that I know so many scriptures. ( of course, I have written countless of scriptures on index cards and through out the day I speak the scriptures into me.) At bible studies and prayer times I often pray the scriptures. So my prayer life is founded on pray reading. And I am forever grateful I was taught to 'pray read'. In fact, when I was taking a college class I used the formula to study a few times!! It actually helped me retain my notes.  no joke!! But I did not keep it up.Fast forward, I do not 'pray read' as I was taught in the LC but I do prayerfully read and meditate on God's Word. I often pray the first part of Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, My prayer goes like this: Thank You Father, that Your Word, Jesus is living in me. Your Word is active, powerful, operating in my spirit and soul through Your Precious Holy Spirit Another scripture I often pray is Romans 12:1 present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, My prayer (which also variates) goes something like this: Father. I present my entire being to You, spirit, soul and body as a living and holy sacrifice acceptable to YOU washed and cleansed in the Precious Blood of Jesus. Dear Jesus continue to transform me by renewing my mind purifying my thoughts and desires. Change my tastebuds so I hate what You hate and Love what You Love. Amen. When I wake up first thing I say is 'This is the day YOU have made. I rejoice and am glad in it.' etc.. In recent years, I noticed Paul, John and Peter always start or end their letters Praising, Worshipping, Blessing, Honoring and Thanking God. Same observation with the Psalms. So I began following their pattern. One of our all time scriptures we all know or think we do is Phillipians 4:6-7. One day I left my pocketbook at the grocery store. When I realized it on my way home, I panicked and began praying fervently with 'fear' I had lost it for good etc... Suddenly Philippians 4:6-7 came to mind. I then told the Lord: LORD. You tell me not to be anxious, not to fear. Therefore even though I am fearful, I am surrendering my anxiety and fear to You. I pray and ask You place a hedge of protection around me and my pocketbook. But whatever happens, happens and I trust YOU to give me the Wisdom I need to take care of this matter. When I arrived at the store, the manager gave me my pocketbook with everything in tact. After years and years of meditating on Philippians 4:6-7, those scriptures changed my life.. This is just a part of my testimony regarding 'pray reading' and how God has honored my 'pray reading'. Blessings to all. Carol |
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| 08-20-2019 12:51 PM | |||
| Raptor |
Pray-Reading is Scriptural ZNPaaneah started a thread about pray-reading as documented in the book, “Lord Thou Saidst…” I really encourage you to get that book, like ZNP wrote, “This book is very strong biblical and historical evidence to support the practice of pray reading the word of God”. In my experience, by pray-reading you turn the logos into rhema in your spirit and you offer rhema to God in the Spirit. I have found 15 different articles/videos/books by non Local Church believers talking and teaching about pray-reading. I will be posting the links with samples if anybody is interested. As far as the Local Church practice of pray-reading: if the term “pray-read” stumbles you because you believe or experienced that the way the Local Church teaches and practices pray-reading is wrong, I encourage you to take off your Local Church glasses and consider pray-reading for what it is: reading the Word prayerfully and praying using the Word. So don´t throw out pray-reading itself. The Lord Jesus encountered some very distorted practices by the Pharisees, for example the way they prayed and the way they handled the scriptures, but He did not throw out prayer and the word. Rather, He pointed out their mistakes and then taught the proper way to pray and handle the scriptures. If you think the Local Churches teaching and practice about pray-reading is wrong, find the main points in their publications about pray-reading and point out the mistakes. Talk about how in your experience their practice of pray-reading is wrong. But don´t throw out scriptural and healthy pray-reading. The Recovery does not have the copyright, monopoly or ownership over pray-reading. |
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