Originally Posted by Drake

"Care? When I was tossed out as dead the first thing that struck me deeply was : Where's the love?"

Bro Awareness, I believe you've shared before how a brother wept before you pleading with you. That sounds like care, isn't it?

Drake

Originally Posted by JJ

I began to make a mental "Vietnam Wall" like list of dear saints I once "fought the good fight with" in TLR that were wounded along the way and were left for dead by those who should have cared for them, including me, with a calloused heart.

Originally Posted by JJ

While reading this and other threads on this site over the past few days the incredible human toll I witnessed myself and have read here of TLR "bait of Satan" struck me.

I began to make a mental "Vietnam Wall" like list of dear saints I once "fought the good fight with" in TLR that were wounded along the way and were left for dead by those who should have cared for them, including me, with a calloused heart.

The length of my TLR Wall list and the story of each one, including damage to relationships and children staggered me, as I mourned and repented silently. I wondered how long the TLR wall list would be if it was collectively compiled.

Originally Posted by Nell

Another result of a "vision" is blindness.

So a "vision" that doesn't include people is blindness.

Originally Posted by Ohio

King Saul became extremely suspicious of David, and now viewed David as a threat to his own kingdom. To which John Bevere adds ...

Here is the result of pushing an agenda, a so-called vision, rather than serving God directly -- one becomes suspicious of others. For decades I wondered why there was so much suspicion in the LC's. Until I recognized this on a national, regional, and local level, I never knew the reason for this systemic disease. At one point, before the actual quarantines of GLA brothers, I felt there were "sleeper cells" ready to spring into action upon coded words from the podium. It has been said that the opposite of love is not just hate, but suspicion. Most leaders of the LC would be keen to recognize blatant hatred, but are clueless to the rampant suspicions they are subject to.

For decades WL sowed suspicions into his lieutenants concerning the most fruitful ministers. He even allowed his son Philip to record a phone conversation with TC to "catch" him for others to know. Who does things like this? The jealousy and pride within many LC leaders becomes readily apparent once one leaves the system and watches other men of God serve God. This spirit of Saul was sown into the Recovery, and is now fully manifested. LSM today is willing to use all possible means -- quarantines, lawsuits, politics, backbiting, whispering, you name it -- in order to protect their so-called "vision."

Originally Posted by JJ

Nee's father figure was a sister.... Margaret E. Barber. She was very spiritual. But, unfortunately she provided discipline with little grace and love. Spirituality with a spirit of superiority versus grace and love was passed from generation to generation.

Originally Posted by JJ

Nee's father figure was a sister.... Margaret E. Barber. She was very spiritual. But, unfortunately she provided discipline with little grace and love. Spirituality with a spirit of superiority versus grace and love was passed from generation to generation.

Originally Posted by Freedom

I am a bit curious – in a LC-specific context, what did you find to be helpful about the book? The reason that I ask is because in the LC, I always felt that there as a noticeable effort made to warn people about the perils of holding offenses towards one another. Even so much so that there was a fear of offenses.

Obviously, the LC holds a skewed notion of what offenses actually are. For example, if someone leaves the LC, it might be said that such a person was “harboring offenses.” Or when Joe Schmoe stands his ground when being pressured by an elder, instead of addressing the issue at hand the elder might play the “offense card” ask Joe Schmoe if he’s holding an offense due to the fact that he dared to confront the elder. I saw this kind of stuff happen time and time again, and the manipulation is clearly evident. What is interesting about the issue, however, is that among the rank and file, they are simply seeking to be diligent to not have offenses with one another – a completely earnest mindset. Little do they know that this innocence is exactly what leaders are looking to take advantage of.

It has been said that forgiveness does not mean excusing someone. In the LC especially, it seems people are unable to differentiate between the two, and it is presumed that one must involve the other. The higher-ups in the LC tend to get away with all kinds of nonsense, because they know very well that whatever they do can be easily excused. I think that many who have come out of the LC probably quickly come to the realization that being willing to ‘forgive’ (excuse) things was something that made them vulnerable to manipulation. In fact, much of the talk in the LC regarding offenses/forgiveness is manipulative. As such, I think that it might be a natural reaction to be more wary about forgiving others, as if forgiveness were some sort of action of letting up one’s defenses.

Originally Posted by Nell

Ohio,

Which edition are you reading?

Nell

Originally Posted by Ohio

The premise of the book is simple -- God's enemy uses offenses and causes of stumbling to trap us as children of God. The Lord Jesus said, "it is impossible but that offenses will occur." (Luke 17.1) We all get inevitably offended, yet we never realize that it is God's enemy who caught us in a trap. We just assume that the is a problem between us and them, not realizing our reactions determine whether we are snared ... or not!

Originally Posted by Ohio

Bevere mourns the loss of real fathers today, saying many of our leaders, even in the church, are like Saul in their treatment of God's people. .