Originally Posted by Ohio

Nell, I guess we really did evolve from gorillas!

Great story. I guess we all have a different interpretation of what it all meant.

Originally Posted by A little brother

Nell, you just gave me an important lesson. And praise the Lord, He certainly has a sense of humor.

Believe it or not, I had a very similar experience in a zoo many years ago. I was taking photos of a gorilla when it suddenly threw mud at me. Probably if I dig deep into my photo archive, I can still find that photo taken before the mud hit my camera. Well, I thought it was mud all these years. Now you have made me think twice and worry a bit.

But the worry didn't trouble me for long. My lessons learned:

(1) That gorilla was long gone. That stain it gave me was washed away long ago. Whether it was mud or poop makes no difference to me now, even though sometimes I might be unexpectedly reminded of that piece of history again.

(2) Gorillas like to throw things at people, so don't stay too close.

(3) People are still being hit today by other gorillas. They may think it is just a bit of mud and can be tolerated. We should probably warn them to think twice so they will wash away the stain sooner.

Originally Posted by aron

If you start to get discernment then you'll get discernment on how to help people, heal and feed them. And you'll be preserved from being a discouraged member or a bitter, confused and alienated ex-member. As I said, the path will open before you.

Originally Posted by aron

Just read. Read, read, read. Then you will be fed, and be able to feed others. And the errors will be more clearly seen. And the path will open before you.

Originally Posted by A little brother

Luke 17:10 gives me a very good reminder

Originally Posted by Terry

You know Fuji when it comes to humility versus pride, one's heart is very much affected whether one is humble or proud. Within the context of the local churches, my thought for quite sometime is the doctrine/teaching of deputy authority/delegated authority results in a prideful heart. Distinctions are created where one as a deputy/delegated authority doesn't have to apologize to anyone for anything. Having had this discussion with a so-called "delegated authority", accountability is only to the Lord and not to one another.

How does one remain humble? Scripture aside, I would suggest never being above repentance nor refusing reconciliation.

Originally Posted by Nell

So the moral of this story is...God has a sense of humor. And, sometimes you need to go to the zoo to get the message. Don't take things too seriously or you might miss something really important at the zoo.
Nell

Originally Posted by Fuji

Brother, Andrew Murray's little book called "Humility" is in fact one of my favourite books. I came across it in a local Salvation Army bookstore after leaving LC and when I read it, I couldn't keep rethinking what I went through in LC (and of course cases outside of LC too). It is pride that keeps us from seeing more of the Lord. Many Christian leaders in the past and today are so not immune to pride but yes, these are great lessons for us to learn from!

Originally Posted by Ohio

Instead of seeking the Lord thru prayer in His word, the Blended leadership decided to use rotten politics, deceitful lawyering, and false teachings to oust Titus Chu at their Kangaroo Court in Whistler Canada. So much for all the spiritual attempts to improve and reform the Recovery of its many ills. After the Ohio region was cut off, then the Blendeds did the same to Brazil.

Originally Posted by A little brother

"Have you seen somebody so spiritually constipated in your entire life?".

Originally Posted by Nell

This reminded me of the "most important testimony" given in the Church in Houston in the "early days" by a brother in his late 20's.

He testified that recently he had missed a meeting. Something you JUST DON'T DO. He chose instead to go to the Houston Zoo. He felt guilty about it, but was feeling somewhat rebellious and did it anyway.

At one point he was standing at the gorilla exhibit and apparently the gorillas were pretty close to the people who were watching. As animals are likely to do, the closest gorilla to the errant brother decided it was time to relieve himself. To keep things tidy I suppose, the gorilla chose to capture his droppings in his own hand (paw?). When he was finished, he drew back his hand and delivered a 90 MPH "fastball" at the brother which was ruled a "hit by pitch" in the brother's chest.

Immediately brother X was certain that he was "caught" and was being punished for missing the meeting. Why he decided to "confess" his indiscretion in the meeting was unclear. This was not lost on those in attendance at the hearing of the "testimony." However, the attendees were too busy rolling on the floor to notice.

He cleaned himself up as best he could and began to scurry toward the zoo exit. As he made his way out, there to greet him were news cameras from a large Houston TV station. They had gotten wind of the gorilla story and rushed to the zoo to cover it. A slow news night I guess.

Of course, brother X was not only mortifed by getting pummeled by gorilla poop, but it was being covered by the news media...all because he missed the meeting. Everybody in Houston would know.

Then he remembered...not only is everyone he knows in the meeting, but they are not allowed to OWN TV's much less WATCH TV. So he's safe. No problem...until he gave a "testimony" about it in the meeting.

So the moral of this story is...God has a sense of humor. And, sometimes you need to go to the zoo to get the message. Don't take things too seriously or you might miss something really important at the zoo.

Nell

Originally Posted by Fuji

Dear brother,

Thank you so much for your sharing!
Believe it or not, this reason was also one of the major reasons why I decided to remain in the LC for a bit.

Actually, I do believe many saints in my area know their system has many flaws and problems, but choose to stay because they believe they can bit by bit bring changes to the ministry. I have a lot of respect for these saints. They were also the major reason why I could stay so long.

However, when I began to join more meetings and got to interact with more saints in other bigger events and other areas, I had little hope. The pride and exclusiveness drove me crazy. Many times I wanted to just stand up and leave.

And I too, stayed because partly I always carried the thought of "okay I can be like a bridge...sharing what I learned from LC to non-LC saints while showing LC saints that non-LC Christians are just as wonderful". I know it sounds naive but it really was one of my biggest motivations.

I support the saints who remain in LC because they believe they can bring change if they feel it's the Lord's calling. Draw from His strength! However, if you feel led to leave, don't be scared. Be bold and bring the good fruit you have got from LC to share with other believers. I too took awhile to leave my "judgmental" manner behind. My one advice is always "be nothing and let Christ be everything. Let Him increase and forget about yourself". If you always have the mind of "but I AM something"! Or "I do have something more special to offer", you may end up craving for people's approval or a special status (this I believe is one major blind-spot for LC and it sometimes leads to bitterness) and it will be a hard transition for you if you carry this thought. Since you are saved in the LC, LC may have given you many presumptions on what "church" ought to look like - but stay open-minded and take brother Neil's advice: focus on Christ and the Church will come out :-).

Brother - you are no "little" brother... you words show a lot of maturity than many...may the Lord continue to lead us to be absolute to Him and not to men. Looking forward to more fellowship.

Originally Posted by A little brother

Great reminder! Pride is probably the single most difficult barrier that every Christian faces. The risk of falling into the trap becomes even higher as one grows spiritually and receives more light from God. I am thankful that God put a perfect (perfectly bad) example in front of me as a warning (what else but the LC). I have to constantly go back to Andrew Murray's prayer of humility (and also keep reminding myself don't be proud of "being" humble).

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Before I was back, I was quite unaware that I was still judging others frequently in a so LC manner. When I was back, I go through the messages every week as others but spend much more time with the Bible to test things mentioned in the messages. I also spent time exploring other non-LC teachings. . .

The past few years were so fruitful that many fallacies in the messages became so apparent. It helped me to trace back to the roots of the "truth" and "practices" that I was taught from the very beginning. As many forum members here already knew, those teachings do not really have strong biblical support. . .

Originally Posted by OBW

I think we forget that until only fairly recently, most of the average population couldn't read anything. There was a reason that Jesus called a group, and singled out 12 of those as they all followed along. In the end, a few were given to regular study and teaching while the rest learned and lived by what they learned. It was part of that first church in which they devoted themselves to certain things, one of which the apostles' teaching in the temple.

Even Paul did not write to the various churches to point out to them the truths that they had gleaned from their personal studies. It was always in reference to what he or others taught them. Or to be on the watch for people teaching different/inconsistent from/with what they first learned. This "self feeding" idea is only partly sound. There is always a need for those who have learned from those who have learned from . . . . You get the picture. While the RCC's claim of a direct link to Peter is a contrived thing much like the doctrine of dirt, there really is a link to the original.

But now that virtually everyone can read the Bible, we think that we should be primarily responsible for figuring it out for ourselves. We are so enamored with this notion that we can get along without teachers/preachers. But we can't. We wouldn't agree enough to meet with anyone but ourselves if we were left to our own devices. And based on some comments that come through occasionally, some of us are barely tolerating that evil clergy-laity system that rules even the congregation we are sort of a part of (kind of rhymes).

Surely we should be reading the word if we are capable of it. But it should mostly be within a framework of teaching that comes from someone(s) else. I think that Paul's discussions with various churches, most notably Corinth, sort of underscores this. In 1 Corinthians 3 he intentionally separates the teachers (workers/builders) from the farm/building. That does not make us not workers at any level. But we work according to what the Workers teach us. Stated another way, there are some apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds, and teachers for the perfecting of the saints. In other words, the saints are not self-teaching.

I do not say that we should not "self-feed" but that it is within the framework of what we are taught. It is not the source of our teaching, but the support of it.

Despite the kind of mentality that we got from the LRC to be self-feeding toward our own perfection, note that even there it was targeted to underscore the "ministry" of Lee. We were told one thing in clear words but a different thing in many veiled words that made us just like everyone else. Even they are reading to strengthen the teaching they are given.

Their problem is not that they do not read/study in the right way. It is that they are learning from some whose work will not stand the test of fire. I do not say that they do not suffer for it. But the main one(s) to suffer will be those that teach it. No matter how "off the mark" we think Lee and the LRC are, they are Christian and most of them are diligently obedient to their leadership. They just didn't realize that their leaders came into the sheep pen "over the fence." Not through the gate. And they managed to steal a few sheep. Some of those are earthly family to me.

Most of us should be reading and "self-feeding" based on an underpinning of someone else's teaching. Even those who would be teachers are taught by others before them. There really is a link to the start. And it doesn't have funny names like "recovery" or "apostolic succession."

Originally Posted by Fuji

However, when I began to join more meetings and got to interact with more saints in other bigger events and other areas, I had little hope. The pride and exclusiveness drove me crazy. Many times I wanted to just stand up and leave.

Originally Posted by Fuji

And I too, stayed because partly I always carried the thought of "okay I can be like a bridge...sharing what I learned from LC to non-LC saints while showing LC saints that non-LC Christians are just as wonderful". I know it sounds naive but it really was one of my biggest motivations.

Originally Posted by Fuji

I support the saints who remain in LC because they believe they can bring change if they feel it's the Lord's calling. Draw from His strength! However, if you feel led to leave, don't be scared.

Originally Posted by Fuji

If you always have the mind of "but I AM something"! Or "I do have something more special to offer", you may end up craving for people's approval or a special status (this I believe is one major blind-spot for LC and it sometimes leads to bitterness) and it will be a hard transition for you if you carry this thought.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

So one of the reasons I still stay at LC is trying to influence the brothers and sisters to be more open minded and truly goes back to the Bible. Regrettably I don't seem to have any success. So I just hope I am playing a part to sew some seeds and one day those seeds may grow.