Originally Posted by aron

It brings another problem - what of the next generation? Once the Guru is gone, then the Bureaucrats take over, who manage the organisation... Clearly Nee and Lee had it. Once they're gone only Bureaucrats are left. Not a particularly great draw... But nobody is allowed Charisma, because that would be "ambition", that would be "drawing others after oneself". Only the Guru could do that without suspicion, without the taint of ambition.

Originally Posted by aron

There's a gold mine there, and Witness Lee missed it, but he got to be Recovery Guru, one in a line of Greats – Moses, Paul, Luther, Darby, Nee, then Lee... in the Recovery, these were the MOTAs, Untouchables with God’s Oracle. Moses and even Jesus were merely props in the Recovery drama. Of course Recovery folk demur, saying, “Christ, Only Christ”, but the Guru as Today's Moses and Today's Paul got to define the Recovered Christ didn't he? "Christ" was a prop, whatever the Guru needed to get through the day, and to bring along his nonspiritual sons that came with him. Suddenly "Christ" wanted Daystar, wanted Philip Lee as the Office, wanted Door-knocking and PSRP and the Vital Groups. Little Bankers. The New Move. Phosphorous. Lin-Ko. Gold Chairs. Whatever Today's Moses needed to get himself through another day.

Originally Posted by JJ

It’s great to be liberated from the lie that Moses was a type of Lee. Jesus fulfills Moses’ prophecy. Hear Him!

Originally Posted by Weighingin

Yes, I've been trying to understand how I had gotten confused by these teachings when the word has been in front of me all of these years.

As you mentioned in Matt 17, "Hear Him." That's when Moses and Elijah were standing right next to Christ. Another contrast was John 1:17, law came through Moses, grace and reality through Jesus Christ.

Even though Moses representing God or being His deputy authority wasn't a wrong teaching, I've been trying to see how I misunderstood For many years that it applied to WL, the MOTA, and the NT age.

Originally Posted by Ohio

You and me both.

Originally Posted by Weighingin

Yes, I've been trying to understand how I had gotten confused by these teachings when the word has been in front of me all of these years.
As you mentioned in Matt 17, "Hear Him." That's when Moses and Elijah were standing right next to Christ. Another contrast was John 17, law came through Moses, grace and reality through Jesus Christ.
Even though Moses representing God or being His deputy authority wasn't a wrong teaching, I've been trying to see how I misunderstood For many years that it applied to WL, the MOTA, and the NT age.

Originally Posted by Ohio

As I have often mentioned, Moses never was a type of the NT ministers, other than Christ Himself. In this regard Moses was absolutely unique.

Moses clearly stated that, "God will raise up a prophet from your midst like unto me." (Deut. 18.15-19)

Paul then makes it plainly clear that Jesus will build God's spiritual House. (Heb. 3.1-6) This corresponds with, "I will build My church." (Matt 16.18)

Thus to demand some accountability from some self-assumed MOTA, who is blatantly violating God's law, can never be applied to "questioning Moses."

It is dangerous, however, to dishonor our Heavenly "Moses" by questioning the authority of Jesus Christ and His word.

Originally Posted by Weighingin

I recall how WL would talk about the principle of incarnation using where Paul said not I but the Lord and so on. So I thought that must apply to his speaking too. This was added to what we had been taught about Noah, deputy authority, questioning the MOTA is in the principle of questioning Moses and other teachings in which I thought I had the realization that to disagree was to disagree with God Himself.

Originally Posted by Ohio

As further confirmation of aron's points here, remember what happened on the mountain, with Jesus, Moses, and Elijah? (Matthew 17)

Originally Posted by aron

Jesus got crowds of followers initially because of his works and the transformative power of his teachings. His words brought light to what had been dark, and obscure, and uncertain. Suddenly, a great light shined. Suddenly, there was a bona fide Great Person, of whom it was said "his sandals I'm not worthy to untie". And the resurrection sealed all this special-ness, and made it permanent, unchangeable forever, "in this age and in the ages to come" (Eph 1:20,21; 2:7).

I note this because the guru-builders will use Jesus as a stepping-stone to their own claim to charisma.

My point is that Jesus stands alone.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Actually, those others with charisma were perceived as rivals and excommunicated.

Those without charisma then grabbed an office they had no ability to fill.

Originally Posted by aron

I think it's some degree of the nature of being a Guru, or Deputy God as LC called it, that only one person in the room can exhibit charisma, and the rest must devote themselves to promoting the Guru.

Originally Posted by Trapped

This will be an interesting shift to watch here over the next period of time. As far as the "speaking blendeds" I believe the pool is smaller as several of them have been afflicted in their physical health to the point where they cannot give long messages anymore, and the ones still well enough just speak more messages instead to compensate. I am only aware in recent times of one addition to the typical group of brothers who speak messages. I just can't imagine there are many clamoring to take on that role, but stranger things have happened.

Who will lead them on, indeed? What on earth will be the glue that holds them together?

Originally Posted by Freedom

I'm inclined to think that as the blendeds slowly disappear, members will struggle with an identity crisis. Who should they follow? What were they following? Who will lead them on? Those are all questions they will be forced to answer, as did members who where there when Lee passed on.

In a movement that is formed around a guru and is held together by the guru, it's continual existence is dependent upon the existence of that person. There was an LC leader who referred to the Chinese proverb "when the tree falls, the monkeys scatter" as a supposed 'proof' that the LC wasn't centered around Lee. Actually, the reason the LC is still in existence is because Lee had a "blendedfold intensified" continuation. They had enough credibility among members to assume his position. And even despite that, there was still somewhat of a mini identity crisis that still happened.

I really don't believe that the blendeds have any successor 'group' in mind. Of course they could put anyone they want up at the podium if that became necessary, but whose to say members will follow their appointed successors? The rank and file consider themselves to be dumb sheep, so they need a leader. If there isn't anyone filling those shoes who has credibility among members, then the LC will cease to exist as we know it.

Originally Posted by Ohio

LSM is like the US government trying to convince us that when they are wealthy then we all are too.

Originally Posted by Freedom

Just within the last year, various Local Churches of Witness Lee in Southern California all donated money to purchase a camp. I heard that the purchase price was in the $8-10 million range, with part of that coming from donations, part of that from the proceeds of a sale of an existing camp, and the rest from loans. I also don't have a problem with anyone donating time/labor/money for such purposes, but the concern that came to my mind is ownership. Real estate is lucrative. Especially when the initial investment and subsequent improvements come free. It's not the local churches who end up participating in a collective ownership. It is a particular publishing house, likely through some type of front organization. That is a scam. They reap the benefit of those who are willing to freely give without a second thought.

Originally Posted by Terry

I would preface what I have to say by the lack of transparency regarding LSM finances leaves open allegations of impropriety even if brothers were careful to avoid any entanglements. Since there is no transparency, Sal's taped conversation with Witness Lee is as close to evidence of impropriety as there is in North America.
Say for example the property on Ball Road was indeed a gift from a wealthy Chinese brother on which the LSM/Church in Anaheim building was completed 1976/1977. Suppose Witness Lee decided to sell the property prior to the structure being built with free labor and give the proceeds to his sons, I'd have no problem with it.
However when thousands of brothers and sisters across the earth tithe money to their localities. Their localities in turn give money to LSM. In turn Witness Lee directs LSM to give money to his children. That I would have a problem with. Many brother and sisters being deceived LSM is for the churches and for the Lord's move on the earth when in fact it is used as a family enterprise under the guise as a non-profit religious entity.
Now that is disgusting. Even more disgusting are brothers who knew about it and looked the other way. Whatever happened to the money from North America intended for the Linko project in Taiwan?

Originally Posted by Ohio

Had Witness Lee just "stolen" a couple million a year to take care of his kids, I might not have a problem with that.

But to place them in leadership positions, with a trail of destruction everywhere they went, is quite disturbing. Then Lee manipulated the churches into buying his sons' "products" and "services." Those blendeds who became today's SUPER-BLENDEDS did so by kissing up to his son Phillip.

Disgusting!

Originally Posted by aron

WL knew what he was about; he was the same man who'd bullied and shamed the Shanghai elders into taking the sinful Nee back as unquestioned leader, who'd been caught smuggling gold. But now, coming into the USA, he was slow and careful. First, he convinced the frogs that a nice stainless steel pot was preferable to that muddy old pond. So clean, shiny! Enjoy! Then he slowly, slowly turned up the heat.

Originally Posted by NewManLiving

The chronic problem with WL "fleecing the flock" is a long and sordid one, reaching back into his early days in Taiwan. The problem with WL's ego and temper also has a long history, extending back to his relationship with Kaung, Sparks and others. Any honest person who has read the accounts and testimonies of many sincere brothers and sisters in Christ would certainly have to admit to this. WL had no peers because he eliminated them and elevated himself. In my observation his character never did change throughout his ministry. Perhaps on his death bed he had a sincere repentance.

Originally Posted by Freedom

But Lee himself didn't need to be motivated by materialism. He had a family that he desired to take care of. He had sons who needed funding for their debauchery. For whatever reasons, Lee felt compelled to help them out. So like it or not, Lee was also motivated by what his ministry could provide to his family (prosperity).

Originally Posted by aron

The Ascended Master (AM) can get some (businesses, donations, cash, material goods, servants, adoration, obedience) because the AM is "above it all" and thus incorruptible. Only the guru WL continually lived within the veil, everyone else was at best occasionally there, and then often only 'positionally'; i.e. because we were 'under the covering' of the AM.
...
And you never see it, because you don't see the hook.

Originally Posted by Renee

Ronnie Chan was a board of directors member on the auditing committee of Enron and profited from its fall by selling his shares before it crashed for over 800K.

Originally Posted by Freedom

Gerald Chan has the right to do whatever he wants with his money, but I sure hate to think that with respect to the LC campus work there near Harvard, that they have deluded themselves into thinking that money can buy them influence or relevance on the campus.

Originally Posted by Peter Eagan

I have seen this man screaming at the the Lee Shouter Church trainees to "take Harvard." He has given hundreds of millions to that school. He or someone with deep pockets is funding a new Lee Shouter Church building nearby. They have dozens on campus.

Originally Posted by Koinonia

Actually, I would expect that Chan would not want his affiliation to the LC known. That wold also explain why he did not sign on to public statements like Titus Chu's and Dong Yulan's quarantine letters, even though he is an LC "coworker." He is from Boston and a graduate of Harvard Medical School.

Originally Posted by Freedom

I hate to say it, but I think that whatever it is that Gerald Chan is doing with Harvard Square stinks badly. I don't know his motives, but it seems that whatever his intentions were in buying up all that property likely has something to do with the fact that the FTT-XB center is located at 1299 Massachusetts Avenue in Harvard Square. Coincidence? Me thinks not. And the reason that they started a FTT there is not even a logical one. They started the training extension because apparently WL had expressed desire that there would be a training there in Boston. So I don't think anyone is going to figure out what Gerald Chan's master plan is with that area is. It's likely that it's rooted in an LC plan that defies logic.

Gerald Chan has the right to do whatever he wants with his money, but I sure hate to think that with respect to the LC campus work there near Harvard, that they have deluded themselves into thinking that money can buy them influence or relevance on the campus.

Originally Posted by Koinonia

HERn, you are not that far off. According to LSM's 2014 tax report (which is the most recent accessible, try www.guidestar.org), LSM has total net assets of over $93,000,000. Of that number, over $10,000,000 is in cash and savings accounts.

Originally Posted by Koinonia

HERn, you are not that far off. According to LSM's 2014 tax report (which is the most recent accessible, try www.guidestar.org), LSM has total net assets of over $93,000,000. Of that number, over $10,000,000 is in cash and savings accounts.

Originally Posted by Renee

Apparently it goes back to Watchman Née who insisted on the one publication, and WL had to submit anything he wrote for approval under the publishing rights of Watchman Née.

Originally Posted by aron

Desiderius Erasmus, father of modern humanism and critical thinker par excellence, managed to survive the Pope's thought police. I doubt he'd have co-existed with Darby.

He wouldn't make it in Lee's church - too independent. He tried to use the mind that God gave him. But only the MOTA, apparently, was and is capable of that feat.

Originally Posted by Ohio

That's easy.

The Pope.

John Darby and his "true" lineage.

Nee & Lee.

These are only the ones I am more familiar with.

Originally Posted by aron

But someone please show me in subsequent Christian history where a single disciple of Christ puts him or herself in this position vis-a-vis the flock of God. It is unprecedented in anything resembling a normal Christian Church life.

Originally Posted by aron

I'd like to stress one point, above: what kind of system posits that only one person is capable of critical thinking, and the rest, should they try, would only bring in confusion?

Originally Posted by aron

I'd like to stress one point, above: what kind of system posits that only one person is capable of critical thinking, and the rest, should they try, would only bring in confusion?

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

. . . self-exaltation, exclusivity, lack of critical thinking, unquestioning commitment to WL and the blended brothers, blinkered attitude towards others (us-versus-them mentality and firm conviction that there is no life outside of the LRC), esoteric "high-peak truth", and blind certainty that WL and therefore his faithful adepts are always right (even when they are wrong) -- these are some signs of guruism in "the Church of Witness Lee."

Originally Posted by Freedom

Witness Lee pulled the ultimate con. He convinced members that he was the singular conveyor of divine inspiration. He convinced members to look no further than himself.

Originally Posted by Unsure

Do you happen to have a link to the video in question? Video analysis of the conferences and trainings could be quite insightful, and to members of the LC with doubts - excuse my language - damning.

Originally Posted by Renee

Image is everything, however I was so concerned about the image of WL that I saw on his videos, that I sent one to a body language expert/physician. This expert is not a believer and had no idea who WL was. His verdict : WL showed all the signs of insincerity, much like untrained politicians, used car salesmen or news telecasters.

It's just business, nothing personal. The 2013 tax returns for the LSM shows that they have close to 100 million in assets, they bring in about 20 million per year and 75% of this goes to salaries and expenses.

Originally Posted by HERn

There is a cash stash. About 18 months ago I did a search of non-profits and LSM was shown to be sitting on a large chunk of cash. It may be in one of my posts as unregistered before I joined. I'm open to correction if I'm wrong. I was wrong about the $100 million figure, I think it was 1-5 million.

Originally Posted by JJ

I'd like other long time LCers to weigh in on whether this is true practice or not.

"All who have saving faith in the Lord Jesus are welcome to all our meetings, especially the Lord’s table, where we testify of the oneness of the Body of Christ. Although we must, for conscience' sake, stand apart from organized religion, we do not stand apart from our brothers and sisters in Christ. In faithfulness to the Lord, we stand on the unique ground of the church for the sake of the Lord’s testimony. But we do not take this stand with a narrow, exclusive, or sectarian spirit. On the contrary, we take our stand on behalf of the whole Body; we receive all believers even as the Lord has received us."

Originally Posted by Renee

It's just business, nothing personal. The 2013 tax returns for the LSM shows that they have close to 100 million in assets, they bring in about 20 million per year and 75% of this goes to salaries and expenses.

Originally Posted by Renee

I doubt it's a cash stash. It may include many of the meeting halls worldwide?

Originally Posted by HERn

I would think that a non-profit would not keep such a large cash stash on hand when there are so many needs out there and people groups who don't have the bible in their own language. Why does LSM need to sit on $100 million dollars?

Originally Posted by Renee

It all sounds like corporate strategy designed to grow business, and pilfer building material from the competition whenever possible to enlarge and expand the company. When the economy is down, the efforts will become more strident.



Image is everything, however I was so concerned about the image of WL that I saw on his videos, that I sent one to a body language expert / physician . This expert is not a believer and had no idea who WL was. His verdict : WL showed all the signs of insincerity, much like untrained politicians, used car salesmen or news telecasters.

It's just business, nothing personal. The 2013 tax returns for the LSM shows that they have close to 100 million in assets, they bring in about 20 million per year and 75% of this goes to salaries and expenses.

Originally Posted by Freedom

For whatever reasons, LC members can't admit it.

Originally Posted by Renee

Image is everything, however I was so concerned about the image of WL that I saw on his videos, that I sent one to a body language expert / physician . This expert is not a believer and had no idea who WL was. His verdict : WL showed all the signs of insincerity, much like untrained politicians, used car salesmen or news telecasters.

Originally Posted by JJ

"All who have saving faith in the Lord Jesus are welcome to all our meetings, especially the Lord’s table, where we testify of the oneness of the Body of Christ. Although we must, for conscience' sake, stand apart from organized religion, we do not stand apart from our brothers and sisters in Christ. In faithfulness to the Lord, we stand on the unique ground of the church for the sake of the Lord’s testimony. But we do not take this stand with a narrow, exclusive, or sectarian spirit. On the contrary, we take our stand on behalf of the whole Body; we receive all believers even as the Lord has received us."

Originally Posted by Terry

Just like the old Canon marketing tag; "Image is everything". Even 19 years after his passing, LSM has an image to project and distribute. Their business is Lee far more than Nee so it's imperative to market Lee as "a humble bondslave", "perfected", etc.

Originally Posted by aron

Whatever happened to "God's humble bondslave" Witness Lee. . . it was a pretense, a sham, to be dropped if necessary. Other testimonies, for example by John Ingalls, Bill Mallon, and John So, corroborate this kind of autocratic, imperious leadership style, and treatment of underlings. The humble and self-effacing servant-of-all persona, who was "least of all the saints" and who "controlled no one", was just a public front, to sell books and fill conference chairs. It was a marketing ploy.

Originally Posted by HERn

The recovery is finished whenever the rate of members who leave exceed the number of marks who get recruited.

Originally Posted by aron

Whatever happened to "God's humble bondslave" Witness Lee. . . it was a pretense, a sham, to be dropped if necessary. Other testimonies, for example by John Ingalls, Bill Mallon, and John So, corroborate this kind of autocratic, imperious leadership style, and treatment of underlings. The humble and self-effacing servant-of-all persona, who was "least of all the saints" and who "controlled no one", was just a public front, to sell books and fill conference chairs. It was a marketing ploy.

I am so glad I got out of the LC of Lee.

Originally Posted by Hope

Right after the meeting James Barber informed John So and I that WL was very upset. Francis Ball had tipped off James. WL did not want to have a quiet private talk but chose to dress the two of us down in the hall for all to see. As soon as the meeting was over, we two were marched to the front. Chairs were rearranged. John and I set by ourselves facing WL and about 50 brothers including James Barber who set behind WL in support of him. Scores of the attendance milled around the little court room and became an audience. WL never asked us to open our concerns but immediately launched into a tirade against us and issued a general warning that if we continued to question what the office and the ministry was doing we would cause a lot of damage to the saints and we would damage ourselves.

I can never forget the glare of despising we got from Ron Kangas as WL continued for about 10 minutes with the rebuke. Then he dismissed the meeting and we all went home. Was I ever in shock!!! So was John So. I was taking hospitality with Ned Sossaman. On the ride home he laughed and laughed. He said this regularly happened to the elders in Orange County.

Originally Posted by aron

So if there's no leader, and RK says that he won't step aside for anyone, why should anyone else step aside for him? And, why did he insist that TC and DYL step aside for the Blendeds? And why did RK and BP and many others step aside for WL?

This is an organization whose leaders say anything at any given moment, and who cares if it matches itself, or matches the Bible, or even makes sense, because the "oracle" can say whatever it needs to say. I guess. . . that's the central organizing principle: "I'm God's Deputy and whatever I say goes. I've got the Red Phone to the throne in heaven. I've got the 'mantle'." Not really much different from Leslie Gore singing, "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to."

Originally Posted by UntoHim

About 38 years ago the Local Church put out a pamphlet entitled "Beliefs and Practices of The Local Churches". An electronic version is published here:
http://www.localchurches.org/beliefs/faq.html

Under the frequently asked questions area you will find this:

Who is your leader?
Our unique leader is Christ. We have no official, permanent, organized human leadership. Furthermore, there is no hierarchy of any kind and no worldwide leader. We regard no person as infallible, and we do not follow anyone blindly. On the contrary, we follow only those whose teaching and practice is in accordance with the truth of God’s Word.

Originally Posted by Freedom

as Ron has said - they ain't stepping aside for nobody.

Originally Posted by UntoHim

About 38 years ago the Local Church put out a pamphlet entitled "Beliefs and Practices of The Local Churches". An electronic version is published here:
http://www.localchurches.org/beliefs/faq.html

Originally Posted by ;49347

About 38 years ago the Local Church put out a pamphlet entitled "Beliefs and Practices of The Local Churches". An electronic version is published here:
http://www.localchurches.org/beliefs/faq.html

Under the frequently asked questions area you will find this:

Who is your leader?
Our unique leader is Christ. We have no official, permanent, organized human leadership. Furthermore, there is no hierarchy of any kind and no worldwide leader. We regard no person as infallible, and we do not follow anyone blindly. On the contrary, we follow only those whose teaching and practice is in accordance with the truth of God’s Word.

Originally Posted by aron

Whatever happened to thinking of others more highly than yourselves? Oh, I know, it disappeared on the Local Ground. The LG was a trojan horse to get you to accept a human cultural ethos centered upon the deification of one of its own. Without the elevation of one of the flock to God-Man status, untouchable and unquestionable, who'd be in charge? Chaos would reign! No, Good Order in the Church is predicated upon Authority and Submission. And in a Normal Christian Church this must be absolute.

Originally Posted by Freedom

. . . as Ron has said - they ain't stepping aside for nobody.

Originally Posted by OBW

The Blendeds won because they controlled the source of LCM lore and dogma — the LSM.

Originally Posted by HERn

The blendeds must be thinking of who can take over. Whoever it is will need to be uncompromising, faithful to Lee, disparaging of Christianity, and able to write nonsensical outlines using obtuse references to the bible. The body of Christ is much bigger than the sect known as the lords recovery.

Originally Posted by HERn

It will be interesting to observe the power plays when RK, EM and others start receding.

Originally Posted by Freedom

DYL or TC could have been his successor. Instead the blendeds won the grab for power.

Originally Posted by Freedom

One thing that seems to escape LC members is that because Lee served as everyone's role model, it goes without saying that there would be some who would seek to initiate his self-appointed 'MOTA' status. To the extent that TC and DYL saw themselves as being special, that is a problem that can be attributed to Lee. He created them. He is who they sought to mimic. Does it really surprise anyone that in spiritual guru Leeland, that there were plenty line up ready to take his spot? I'm not surprised, not the least bit.

DYL or TC could have been his successor. Instead the blendeds won the grab for power.

Originally Posted by aron

The split between the Brasilians and Anaheim was because Dong Yu Lan wanted to be an Ascended Master, too. The Blendeds wanted him to be a nobody - no more Giants allowed, only caretakers. But DYL had a good thing going. Just like WL, his acolytes were on the street peddling his words. Just like WL, he could examine and expose everyone & everything but his personal affairs were a Black Box. Why should he give that up and become a nobody? Top of the heap, baby; he'd followed WL's game plan to the letter and now the world was his. Give it up? Not a chance.

Originally Posted by aron

On Witness Lee's death in 1997 the blendeds said that the age of Spiritual Giants was over, and it was the age of Small Potatoes. From whence cometh such statements? Not from scripture, history, or logic. Why should God have one Top Minister per age and give this up post-Lee? Was Lee really that good, that God couldn't find another charismatic soul and henceforth must rely on caretakers and bureaucrats?

Originally Posted by aron

(Translated from Portuguese)

The Local Church Movement led by Dong Yu Lan in Brazil and South America was considered part of the Ministry of Witness Lee, from the arrival of DYL here until the death of Witness Lee in 1997.

But from WL's death, the relationship between the leadership of LSM and DYL, which has never been good, has been deteriorating to the total disruption of these movements and their congregations in 2005 and officially in 2009, when a Letter of Quarantine has been published the DYL.

I participated actively in this process of separation of the LSM with DYL, mainly because he considered extremely idolatrous WL Movement, centralized and authoritarian. These deviations were notorious and affected the consciousness of the brothers, particularly those that related internationally. There was an expectation, at least on my part, that in this break, the Local Church movement in Brazil and South America could fix their deviations, and bring his teachings to their practice.

Almost simultaneously, and as the work progressed in Africa and was successful, problems with the DYL leadership began to arise and develop, either in the teaching field, and in practice. In addition I began to question the Movement administration.

Although he was considered a leader, he did not participate in its management, but the Work in Africa, which I managed, is the movement of people and resources. At the time it was granted a Power of Attorney by the Association Tree of Life, for we function as a branch in Brasilia, with the specific purpose of supporting evangelization in Africa.

I thought up there, that all he was doing was by God and for God, but my conscience was becoming more sensitive, because of the inconsistencies I found, particularly in increasing promotion ladder, in your institution, and in business that arose with argument to sustain the work.

In 2008 I moved to São Paulo, in a maneuver exhausting logistics, which seriously compromised my family budget and care for my children. There are several versions on this topic, however, at that time I felt that I should approach the DYL leadership to try to somehow positively influence Movement direction. (some movement advocates said I had gone to SP to give a kind of "coup in DYL" qta imagination!)

At that time I had invested everything he had, property, family, and career on the belief that this movement was an expression of the restored church on earth. Would not it be logical that in the face of difficulties, I simply depart. I really wanted to make "the church" into something that rewards the dedication of the people.

The story is long. Facebook's Notes address in particular this disruption process. I am attaching some files that seek to describe a sequence of events.

Then came the administrative issue and the fear of legal responsibility.

In São Paulo I took note of a Warrant Search and Seizure, which was issued (later halted), due to a Concealment Process Goods and Money Laundering Association against the Tree of Life (AAV).

Were evident signs of administrative irregularities, particularly in resort Tree of Life, where a son of DYL managed an Engineering Company, which at the time was the only one to carry out works at Estancia (meeting place of the Congregations, an auditorium, accommodation, houses and hotel).

The ghost of being a mere orange, providing credibility to the operations, which at least seemed unethical by the Movement summit, began to haunt me.

I worried about being corresponsabilizado for something I lived, but not adequately met, and certainly not agree.

After the episode of the Warrant I went to the resort to talk to one of the main leaders of the Movement, who lived there (Ezra Ma, the chief marketer of Dong Yu Lan).

Surely it was aware qq thing that occurred there. So I argued with him in front of irregularities, what should be our position?

We should just sit on the 1st row and make clear to the brothers who were approving all that was done?

I told him to all the letters that I would not be Orange Movement, and that if there were any irregular or unethical situation, as such Engineering Company that had the monopoly of the works of EAV, so that the situation be corrected because they do not should expect from me what solidarity was not fair and legal.

He claimed not to know anything, but "the administration of EAV was a kind of black box, the Dong's exclusivity."

I argued that, if so, only after the crash is that we would know its contents. Finally we said goodbye. I think he got the message, they could not "trust" me administrative secrets.

There are other episodes that have marked my discontent and frustration.

There was a training in Pocos de Caldas (I think it was in 2009, in the 1st half) to promote the "current move of God," which at that time was through "banners and books of exhibitors".

For me, it completely lost the spiritual sense. A kind of "brainwashing" was characterized, which sought to "convince" the participants at the private setting method, permeated by repetitive, tiresome and theatrical witnesses and under the tireless and insatiable president of Dong Yu Lan, until all surrendered the "evidence" that it really was the work of "Holy Spirit". It is very likely that some had already noticed that I was nearly "edge."

I believe that from here, I had no future projections that place. My concern was how to referral and care for brothers and communities generated in Africa.

In October 2010, because of various events and disagreements, I broke completely with that movement. It was true that no longer recognized the group as "the church", neither its leadership as "anointed of God."

The main motivation that kept me yet integrated into the Group, as I said, it was like meet and take care of the families of full-time brothers who served in Africa, since the funds came from the congregations under the leadership DYL.

I understand that the events that preceded this disruption were not masked to African workers, and the decision of what to do before the apparent reduction of resources, because of the ministerial separation, would be at the discretion of each. This turned out and, miraculously, Heavenly Father has provided care to those who preferred to preserve the purity of their service, ie, they did not accept the impositions of the DYL Movement and also broke the relationship with him.

The episode that ended this disruption process occurred at the construction office in Africa in Brasilia. Files and administrative responsibilities I exerted myself were taken without warning, as in a police operation (I was away, traveling in Africa). This unusual situation, which could have been carried out with transparency, because the right of that function was sustained by an attorney, was carried rudely cable.

Given this, I remained two options: drive my moral, financial and professional damage to a human court, or follow my path of recovery. So me and my house we decided to take the damage, resuming our lives and leave the judgment to God.

Although it has lost many things, including physical health, I have preserved the faith, courage and a companion: Facebook.

The Movement decried me, guiding his followers not to speak with me. However, some members and companions, because they know me, too broke and continued friendship and care.

I went back to work. I got opportunities and today I am consultant hired by a Great Construction Company, in its defense business.

Gradually regained health and financial condition.

For all I saw and went through, I am absolutely convinced that man's religion has nothing to do with the Lord Jesus and with God, however, have always been opponents.

Sorry realize yet, especially in the movement from which I came, the commitment of many faithful, consuming their time, resources and faith itself (seen as occurs with many who left), serving religion and, day by day, up disappointed with it .

It is sad to see the proposed consecration being presented in the name of God, and people devoting their assets to support ideas of a sick and self-centered mind. I don't intend to convince or convert people of anything, nor could, but I can neither ignore facts and experiences. It would be a sin to keep silent. Some later on historical analysis of events may question whether the silence would not be a crime of omission.

I understand that there is not much I can do, particularly to members of the DYL Movement, because people are unnerved when talking to religious leaders, however trust in the heavenly Father who sovereignly all-seeing, all controls and ensures so their children are cared for.

I hope everyone there is freed and can finally experience real freedom in the Spirit and the unique headship of Christ.

Still echo in my ears a meeting that was hosted by DYL in the presence of the directors of AV Publisher in one of the rooms on the premises of AV Publisher and residence of DYL in São Paulo, to try to get my "repentance ". He talked about my "attacks" to their "ministry" and gave me the word.

I just repeated the observations he had made in the letter that I write to him, pointing to the problem of discomfort on the promotion of Dong Yu Lan and AV by congregations over the name of the Lord, and neglect the Word of the Apostles and of the Lord Jesus Himself in particular the emphasis on the teaching and practice with respect to business.

At this point there was something quite remarkable. When I mentioned that it was unacceptable that the "restoration" ignore the words of the Lord Jesus, so I started to quote the verse that Jesus spoke in the temple, "it is written, my house ..." (Luke 19:46). I could not finish. Dong Yu Lan stood up and started screaming, "Enough! Enough! U will not convince me of anything. If u want to follow me, follow me, if u do not want to follow me, do not follow me. " (with Chinese translation into Portuguese)

This is Donguismo !!!!

Originally Posted by Wikepedia

"Bhagwan Shri Rajneesh"

Born Chandra Mohan Jain 11 December 1931 Kuchwada Village, Bareli Tehsil, Raisen Distt. Bhopal State, British India (modern day Madhya Pradesh, India. Died 19 January 1990 (aged 58) Pune, Maharashtra, India

Nationality Indian

Known for Spirituality

Notable work Over 600 books translated in several languages, several thousand audio and video discourses.

Movement Jivan Jagruti Andolan; Neo-sannyas

OSHO (11 December 1931 – 19 January 1990) was a mystic, guru, and spiritual teacher, born in India. The international Rajneesh movement has continued after his death.

Osho continues to be published by over 200 publishers worldwide and in over 60 languages. His commune, now known as a meditation resort, is one of India’s main tourist attractions, and offers a wide range of meditations.

A professor of philosophy, he travelled throughout India in the 1960s as a public speaker. He was a critic of socialism, Mahatma Gandhi and institutionalised religions. He advocated a more open attitude towards human sexuality, earning him the sobriquet "sex guru" in the Indian and later international press, although this attitude became more acceptable with time. In 1970, Osho settled for a time in Bombay, initiating disciples known as "neo-sannyasins" and expanded his spiritual teaching and work. In his discourses, he gave his original understanding and views on the writings of many religious traditions, mystics, and philosophers from around the world. His intelligent discourse and charisma attracted a growing number of westerners.

He moved to Pune in 1974, where his disciples established a foundation and an ashram for his presence and work, where a variety of transformational tools could be offered to the visitors. Among those transformational tools, the ashram offered various original meditations that Osho developed for the modern man, many with an original musical score specifically designed to accompany each meditation. In addition, therapies derived from ancient and modern Western traditions including the Human Potential Movement were offered in the ashram to function as a cleansing tool before the subject began meditation.

By the late 1970s, tensions mounted between the Indian government and the Ashram, which prevented the Ashram from obtaining a larger property away from big cities. The search then shifted to the United States. In mid-1981, ranch property was found and purchased in Oregon in the United States by a US Foundation devoted to Osho's work. The ranch comprised 64,000 acres in the semi-desert, 16 miles from the nearest town, Antelope, Oregon, which had fewer than fifty residents. The Foundation established an intentional community, later known as Rajneeshpuram, in the state of Oregon. Osho came to the Ranch at the end of August 1981. Almost immediately, the development met with intense local, state and federal hostility and opposition from the government, press and citizenry, who took numerous legal actions to limit and ultimately terminate its existence. Citizen groups were formed to stop the development. An Oregon court determined, based on polling evidence, that the group could not receive a fair trial. Multiple litigations sought to slow or stop the development.

In 1985 Osho revealed that his personal secretary and a small number of her close supporters had committed a number of serious crimes against their own community and against local residents and public officials, including the 1984 Rajneeshee bioterror attack on the citizens of The Dalles, Oregon, conspiracy to murder the US Attorney, attempted murder of Osho's physician and the local District Attorney, and a massive wiretap at Rajneeshpuram, including in Osho's bedroom. Osho was deported from the United States in accordance with a plea bargain.

After Osho was deported from the US twenty-one countries denied him entry, causing Osho to travel the world before returning to Poona, where he died in 1990. His ashram is today known as the Osho International Meditation Resort. His syncretic teachings emphasise the importance of meditation, awareness, love, celebration, courage, creativity, and humor— qualities that he viewed as being suppressed by adherence to static belief systems, religious tradition and socialisation. Osho's teachings have had a notable impact on Western New Age thought, and their popularity has increased markedly since his death.

Originally Posted by aron

Nee had read Fenelon and Guyon and now was the ascended master. . .

Originally Posted by OBW

"we" were impressed that this was some complicated concept that was really hard to get right and Lee was the one who knew it and we didn't. . .

it was always a little unsettling. And yet evidently not unsettling enough. It took almost 10 more years to decide to leave.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Lee used to talk about how Nee would listen to the sharing of trainees and then speak a super-perfecting word customized for that individual brother's perfecting. All in attendance would oooh and ahhh about how all-wise and all-knowing was Nee. It was the stuff of legends.

Originally Posted by Lisbon

I was in the perfecting meetings and they were a complete farce. One young brother badgered Dick Bright unmercifully as WL looked on. You see what a real bond servant of Christ is.

Originally Posted by Terry

A bond servant in non-LSM Christian fellowship is different than you would find in LSM fellowship. Within LSM fellowship bond servant is a paradox. In LSM practices a bond servant lords over others.

What is perfecting meetings? Is it willfully subjecting one's self to verbal abuse?

Originally Posted by Lisbon

I was in the perfecting meetings and they were a complete farce. One young brother badgered Dick Bright unmercifully as WL looked on. You see what a real bond servant of Christ is.

What in the world is a bond servant?

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Originally Posted by KSA

I would really recommend this book https://www.amazon.com/Guru-Papers-M...ds=guru+papers

It would give a lot of insight on cult dynamics.