Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

Yes! Thank you! Speaking the word of God is different than speaking what we want. Yesterday I was talking to my neighbor and he said that “by faith” I could speak into being having a baby. Uh....no. And he said that he spoke his nephew into being and told his sister that she have a boy. He also stated that my husband and I might be in the wrong church. Seriously, dude? There were others times when I complained and saint would say, “don’t say that. Don’t speak negative because it will come true.” Again....we don’t have that kind of power, right? Even in our prayer. We must pray, but God will answer as He wills, right?

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

Yes! Thank you! Speaking the word of God is different than speaking what we want. Yesterday I was talking to my neighbor and he said that “by faith” I could speak into being having a baby. Uh....no. And he said that he spoke his nephew into being and told his sister that she have a boy. He also stated that my husband and I might be in the wrong church. Seriously, dude? There were others times when I complained and saint would say, “don’t say that. Don’t speak negative because it will come true.” Again....we don’t have that kind of power, right? Even in our prayer. We must pray, but God will answer as He wills, right?

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

This seems to fit with the thought that we can speak somethimg into being as if we were really are becoming God haha

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

There seems to be a fine line between what the world sees as "positive affirmation" and speaking what is true according to the word of God. But not really. The first denies the power and existence of God - "The universe will hear and respond to me if I speak this" kind of thing. (they may substitute "god" for "universe" in this practice)

The message of the Bible is we must be have faith. Faith is about believing in God who is unseen and in His Son, Jesus Christ. Faith is also agreeing with what God has to say about us, according to His word.

Yes, words do mean things. The world has a form of this in "speaking positively," and that might produce something in a temporal way to get what one desires. But in the end, it's the same for all things apart from Christ - the result is just death. But if I speak what the scripture says about me, it has fruit unto eternal life! For instance, agreeing with the word and speaking aloud scripture that "I'm a new creation!" "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ lives in me!" "I am not in flesh, but in spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in me!" "The blood of Christ has cleansed me from all sin!" "I am the righteousness of God in Christ!"

Now those are powerful words that I can speak aloud concerning who I really am already in Him! I'm not making something that's not real into something that is - it's something He has already done and speaking it helps to manifest in my experience what's already true.

Does that make sense?

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

This seems to fit with the thought that we can speak something into being as if we were really are becoming God haha

Originally Posted by OBW

I have mentioned before that a relative of mine insisted several years ago that the way you say it is very important. Somehow the words used increase the "reality" of it and the "experience" of it.

I was unable to hide my disgust at such a ridiculous notion.

Originally Posted by OBW

Have they written a song to this yet? I could never remember such a convoluted set of words without a tune to sing it to.

Also, I like the fact that it is a palindrome of ridiculous words, thereby making it doubly ridiculous.

And the ridiculous palindrome is now remembered more than any actual meaningful thought that may have been in the message (if any).

Originally Posted by OBW

I had one LCer (a nephew of mine) declare that having a better vocabulary (Lexicon) made the experience of Christ better. He sort of challenged me to a private debate on the subject, but never responded when I set up a private place for it to happen.

Originally Posted by Igzy

The Kernel of the Essential, Intrinsic, Consummate Consummation of the Consummate, Intrinsic, Essential Kernel.

Originally Posted by Igzy

Only we... in the Lord's Recovery... have seen this."

Originally Posted by Igzy

Or... The Kernel of the Essential, Intrinsic, Consummate Consummation of the Consummate, Intrinsic, Essential Kernel.

Originally Posted by JJ

Agreed. "Dispensing" is a good example (talk about an over-used WLism!). Why not use "fill" like the Bible does? Be filled in spirit, or be filled with the Spirit... straight forward. Exercise the spirit? Doesn't say that in my Bible, exercise thyself unto godliness is what it says. So, we end up with a whole new religion with part truth, part fantasy, part way of the nations (fallen human king dominating others while they exalt him and war with others).

Originally Posted by OBW

Actually, the Bible says it pretty well. If there is any problem with understanding he Bible, it is that on occasion there are places where having it said more clearly, not more cryptically, would be helpful.

And most of those banner-like, long phrases do not provide clarity. Instead they redefine and obfuscate.

All scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching. All Leeisms are Lee-breathed and profitable for Lee through the LSM.

Originally Posted by Freedom

An attitude of indifference to some of the bizarre things is probably more common than leaders would like to think. I've seen people shake their heads or roll their eyes when someone stands up and attempts to recite a nonsensical and run-on sentence. What ultimately determines whether members stay or leave is how sold they are on the LC. They could be absolutely miserable in the LC, but if they buy into the notions that they alone are God's elect or that there is nowhere else that has anything of value, then they will be stuck.

Originally Posted by JJ

. . . that it was WL's attempt to describe what is in the Bible to us. . . .

Originally Posted by Freedom

It's fake.

But then again it's all fake. WL made it all up as he saw fit. It has no real meaning, and anyone attempting to decipher that kind of nonsense will drive themselves crazy.

Someone could probably write a computer program the could generate LSM outlines. Just insert words like intrinsic, economy, kernel or consummation every so often and you've got yourself an LSM outline. Oh and don't forget the random scripture references that nothing to do with the outline points.

Originally Posted by Freedom

It's fake.

But then again it's all fake. WL made it all up as he saw fit. It has no real meaning, and anyone attempting to decipher that kind of nonsense will drive themselves crazy.

Someone could probably write a computer program the could generate LSM outlines. Just insert words like intrinsic, economy, kernel or consummation every so often and you've got yourself an LSM outline. Oh and don't forget the random scripture references that nothing to do with the outline points.

Originally Posted by Terry

Any amens or hallelujahs is a conditioned robotic response, because you've already tuned out the noise and checked out mentally. Instead pondering how will you be spending the afternoon or what the meals should be for lunch and dinner.

Originally Posted by Freedom

An attitude of indifference to some of the bizarre things is probably more common than leaders would like to think. I've seen people shake their heads or roll their eyes when someone stands up and attempts to recite a nonsensical and run-on sentence. What ultimately determines whether members stay or leave is how sold they are on the LC. They could be absolutely miserable in the LC, but if they buy into the notions that they alone are God's elect or that there is nowhere else that has anything of value, then they will be stuck.

As I see it, leaders are taking a gamble. They depend on giving members some sort of so-called 'vision' that will make them loyal to the LC. Most of the time it works. If it does, they can then collect training/conference fees and sell books. It doesn't really matter what is said in those conferences or books. As long as members are sold on the system, content is irrelevant. Like I say, it's a gamble, and sometimes they lose. Every now and then, long time members simply disappear.

As long as the losses aren't significant, they can continue to play their little game. Of course, every once in a while, mass disillusionment comes. Then leaders have to put a spin on things. They attempt to call disillusionment other things, using words like turmoil, rebellion or conspiracy.

Originally Posted by OBW

It is definitely a "wow" factor for the members.

But if you really took the time to try to decipher those things, how could you get so giddy over them? They are essentially exercises in the absurd. And if you can just repeat them at the top of your lungs and shout rounds of "Praise the Lord!" after each, then you really aren't reading them.

And you probably won't really be reading or listening when the rest of the claptrap nonsense goes by. Instead, you will be predisposed to ignore any potential question marks and just shout more "Hallelujahs."

Originally Posted by NewManLiving

If that is an actual quote then the LSM has gone from the rediculous to the absurd.

Originally Posted by Freedom

I think that much of the purpose behind the LC lingo it that it's a convenient tactic that is intended to purposely confuse people. What better way for Lee to insulate his position than by developing a talk that only he himself could come up with. Some of this nonsense is downright stupid and illogical, and there is no way decipher it besides calling it what it really is. Since LCers can't call BS, they simply arrive at the premature conclusion that they themselves are the problem that they are limited in what they understand. Thus ensures that the authority structure maintains intact.

On the other hand, a lot of the lingo does have subtle implications. Just consider normal things found in the Bible like the temple, the altar, the golden lampstand. Everyone knows what these are, but what does the LC do? They predicate everything with phrases like "the intrinsic significance". What they're really saying is that everything they attach these labels to has some kind of esoteric meaning that only they see. This is why I find this kind of talk to be disconcerting. It's subtle, it's elusive, and if you try to address it, they play word games with you. Christians should be on the lookout for people using peculiar language and terminology. It almost certainly indicates that there's something else going on.

Originally Posted by Koinonia

"Further Talks on the Urgent Need of the Central Lane of the Central Line of the Crucial Points of the Major Items of the Basic Elements of the Constitution and Building Up of the Exercise and Practice of the Essence of the Focus of the Kernel of the Lord's Recovery"

Anyone miss this kind of thing?

Originally Posted by HERn

Thanks Freedom. Last year or so I looked at a recent LSM outline and compared what was written to the cited bible verses and was amazed at the incongruity. I remember as an LC member paying more attention to the outline than to the content of the bible verses.

Originally Posted by Freedom

It's fake.

But then again it's all fake. WL made it all up as he saw fit. It has no real meaning, and anyone attempting to decipher that kind of nonsense will drive themselves crazy.

Someone could probably write a computer program the could generate LSM outlines. Just insert words like intrinsic, economy, kernel or consummation every so often and you've got yourself an LSM outline. Oh and don't forget the random scripture references that nothing to do with the outline points.

Originally Posted by HERn

Was this a real banner or did someone make it up?

Originally Posted by Koinonia

"Further Talks on the Urgent Need of the Central Lane of the Central Line of the Crucial Points of the Major Items of the Basic Elements of the Constitution and Building Up of the Exercise and Practice of the Essence of the Focus of the Kernel of the Lord's Recovery"

Anyone miss this kind of thing?

Originally Posted by Koinonia

"Further Talks on the Urgent Need of the Central Lane of the Central Line of the Crucial Points of the Major Items of the Basic Elements of the Constitution and Building Up of the Exercise and Practice of the Essence of the Focus of the Kernel of the Lord's Recovery"

Anyone miss this kind of thing?

Originally Posted by Igzy

Or... The Kernel of the Essential, Intrinsic, Consummate Consummation of the Consummate, Intrinsic, Essential Kernel.

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Or...

The K of the E, I, C, C of the C, I, E, K.

Everybody now....supercalifragilisticexpialidocious....

You can't make this stuff up folks.

-

Originally Posted by Koinonia

"Further Talks on the Urgent Need of the Central Lane of the Central Line of the Crucial Points of the Major Items of the Basic Elements of the Constitution and Building Up of the Exercise and Practice of the Essence of the Focus of the Kernel of the Lord's Recovery"

Anyone miss this kind of thing?