Originally Posted by Lisbon

After forty years in LC I'm not that far from where you are. I've come to the conclusion that God never clears up the past and you and I can do very little except get out. After reading these forums for around a year I am thoroughly convinced that eventually I will break all ties.

Originally Posted by Chris Fleming

I had a brother say similar things to me--that he was tired of what goes on there but couldn't quite bring himself to leave, as he didn't know what he would do or where he would go. He said to me, "you're free", implying that he was not.

Now I don't have a quest to see people leave LSM churches, but all I can say here is that within their ministry, there is often built in a control mechanism where they openly state things like, "if you leave you won't be able to go on with the Lord" or "those who were able to be removed were never built in" and many other such thinly veiled threats.

In short, that is nonsense. I have enjoyed the Lord in LSM and I am just FINE now that I am no longer there. I am enjoying the Lord even more so now. I seek Him much more deeply than when I was there. It's where YOU are at in life, not the building or group you meet with. The Lord will put you where He wants you to be, in LSM or elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Chris Fleming

I had a brother say similar things to me--that he was tired of what goes on there but couldn't quite bring himself to leave, as he didn't know what he would do or where he would go. He said to me, "you're free", implying that he was not.

Now I don't have a quest to see people leave LSM churches, but all I can say here is that within their ministry, there is often built in a control mechanism where they openly state things like, "if you leave you won't be able to go on with the Lord" or "those who were able to be removed were never built in" and many other such thinly veiled threats.

In short, that is nonsense. I have enjoyed the Lord in LSM and I am just FINE now that I am no longer there. I am enjoying the Lord even more so now. I seek Him much more deeply than when I was there. It's where YOU are at in life, not the building or group you meet with. The Lord will put you where He wants you to be, in LSM or elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Chris Fleming

I had a brother say similar things to me--that he was tired of what goes on there but couldn't quite bring himself to leave, as he didn't know what he would do or where he would go. He said to me, "you're free", implying that he was not.

Now I don't have a quest to see people leave LSM churches, but all I can say here is that within their ministry, there is often built in a control mechanism where they openly state things like, "if you leave you won't be able to go on with the Lord" or "those who were able to be removed were never built in" and many other such thinly veiled threats.

In short, that is nonsense. I have enjoyed the Lord in LSM and I am just FINE now that I am no longer there. I am enjoying the Lord even more so now. I seek Him much more deeply than when I was there. It's where YOU are at in life, not the building or group you meet with. The Lord will put you where He wants you to be, in LSM or elsewhere.

Originally Posted by awareness

This whole idea of leaving the fold (denominations) and entering the pasture (Local Church) cracks me up.

The metaphor doesn't fit. The Local Church is the quintessential sheep pen.

Originally Posted by Witness Lee

Everyone who sees must leave the fold and enter the pasture, under the sunshine, in the fresh air, in liberty

Originally Posted by ABrotherinFaith

Freedom, I am about 10 years older than you, but have a very similar experience. I am still in the LC despite having some strong reservations about the supposed ground on which we stand.

If you decide to leave, make sure that your experience with the rest of Christianity isn't clouded by what you're used to. Things will seem strange, uncomfortable even. That isn't because they are wrong or have less light/vision or whatever, it's because you're used to a certain procedure. Don't worry, the more time you spend with other Christians you'll realize that they love the Lord and are seeking Him as much if not more, occasionally less than the brothers and sisters in the LC.

When I first started talking to Christians outside the LC this was the hardest part--getting over my up to then unrealized feeling of uniqueness or superiory because I belonged to the LC and not because I necessarily had done any serious study or seeking on my own. Superior by association..

Read the Word of God. And read it without footnotes. Get another translation. I've been using the New Living Translation. The Word comes alive when it speaks for itself and you've not been told how to understand it. It's a lot of work, but it's well worth it.

__________________________________________________ _


Elden1971,
Do you have some context for this quote? Are the magazines available online?

Originally Posted by Freedom

I have long since realized that at best, the footnotes are just one person's interpretation. In many instances, they amount to nothing more than mumbo jumbo. Sometimes I have to read footnotes several times to even understand what is being said.

Originally Posted by Freedom

I cannot even express how dry it feels to sit there and listen to person after person get up and read an excerpt from the HWMR.

Originally Posted by ABrotherinFaith

If you decide to leave, make sure that your experience with the rest of Christianity isn't clouded by what you're used to. Things will seem strange, uncomfortable even. That isn't because they are wrong or have less light/vision or whatever, it's because you're used to a certain procedure. Don't worry, the more time you spend with other Christians you'll realize that they love the Lord and are seeking Him as much if not more, occasionally less than the brothers and sisters in the LC.

When I first started talking to Christians outside the LC this was the hardest part--getting over my up to then unrealized feeling of uniqueness or superiory because I belonged to the LC and not because I necessarily had done any serious study or seeking on my own. Superior by association..

Originally Posted by ABrotherinFaith

Read the Word of God. And read it without footnotes. Get another translation. I've been using the New Living Translation. The Word comes alive when it speaks for itself and you've not been told how to understand it. It's a lot of work, but it's well worth it.

Originally Posted by Elden1971

"Only the golden lampstands, the local churches, are the testimony of Jesus....if you are not in the local churches you are not the testimony of Jesus." Witness Lee Local ChurchWitness Lee, The Stream magazine Nov. 1976, p.7)

I wonder where that leaves us?

Originally Posted by NeitherFirstnorLast

Hello Freedom, and welcome to the community.

What you wrote here (above) is what I really want to address - because at the end of the day, esoteric quotes of common faith aren't, I think, what you're looking for or what you need. You have a faith in Christ that's real - and you know that - but your crisis isn't about your faith in Him. I think your real crisis is "where do I go from here?"

A lot of the regular members on this board are people who got involved with the LC from somewhere else. Some encountered it as adults (like I did), some as young people in College.... we all had very different lives before the LC, and while it took a lot for us to turn away from friends and an organization we had devoted our lives too... we had something to go back to. But your involvement goes deeper. What I hear you saying is that you were born into the movement... and if that's the case, you don't have a life to go back to from before the LC. Maybe you don't even have friends on the outside to help you get out (or see the world from a perspective outside the LC).

Freedom, there is HOPE. The truth is, GOD is working - and has worked - to show you something; and it's the same thing we saw. Grace is at work here and you will be in our prayers. What the LC does and is doing to all it's members and most particularly second generation members - is isolating you. Isolating you from the Body of Christ at large, isolating you from the world. That's not biblical. We are called by Christ (see John 17:16-26) to be One with other Believers (and the fervency of His prayer makes it clear that the enemy will be very much opposed to that). We are told that while we may not be "of" the world, we are called by Christ to be "IN" it - bearing witness of Him and bringing light to a dark place.

I'd like to give you practical advice.... and I don't know if I have any. What I can offer is my own testimony, and prayers for you. Brother, your eyes have been opened. You may not have an exit strategy, but your Father does. The first step is realizing you have to take a first step.

PS: This site is great for reading about the real history of the movement your in, but the LC system isn't unique in what it did to it's members. Reading about other's peoples experiences in similar groups can be of benefit too.... I'd suggest checking out http://www.theholdemans.com/Compare.htm . I think they offered a lot of insights that you might not otherwise get here, as they've designed their website specifically to help people in situations like yours.

Take care, and may God continue to bless you and lend you His peace, which surpasses all understanding.

Originally Posted by Freedom

Well, I am still here in the LC, not because I want to be, but because I don’t have a viable exit strategy. I guess I have the faint hope that somehow, I can help others to see all the things that I have seen, but I know that’s probably not going to happen. What I also have realized is that I have no ability to change anything in the LC, and eventually I have to move on for my own good.

Originally Posted by Freedom

Now I want to explain what brought me here. I’m sure that those who grew up in the LC, aka “church kids”, have had some type of feeling of not fitting in with everyone else outside the LC. This type of feeling forced me to place my trust and friendships in the LC. Since I didn’t fit in anywhere else outside the LC, I in turn dedicated myself solely to LC activities.

During this time period I regularly attended the bi-annual LSM trainings. Ironically, due to attending these trainings, I began to hear the constant innuendos put forth about “negative” writings on the internet, “rebellions”, and so on. What really struck me about it is that here I was attending a training to hear the word of God, and instead they often would diverge into making these very broad statements about “rebellious ones” or “negative writings”, all of which was supposedly irrelevant to me. I could never see why they brought up such things in the first place. Eventually I had to ask myself, why did they bring up these things during every training, and why were they so adamant about not reading anything on the internet?

I always challenge myself to think critically, so I had to ask myself the question, what is it that they don’t want me to know about, and why? This resulted in me undertaking my own research, and I took the time to read all of the things that we aren’t supposed to know about. I read Steve Isitt’s writings, John Ingalls’ book, etc. After reading all of that, I really had to take a step back and consider everything I had learned.

At first it all seemed too farfetched to be true, that is, the idea that maybe the LC didn’t have the pristine image that I thought it did. Since no one in the LC discusses such things, I was on my own to make sense of what I had found out. The more I thought about it, the more I realized that, well of course these things are true, the bigger question is what I do with what I know.

What I eventually began to realize is that these writings expressed to a certain extent how I felt inside. I mentioned earlier that I was feeling like I was putting on an act as far as my involvement in the church life.

Originally Posted by Freedom

Thank you for your response. I am just glad that I was able to finally come and post my testimony. I realize that on my part some decisions are required. As for the path ahead of me, I trust that God will open the door and show me the way.

Originally Posted by aron

Remember that Christ bought your freedom on the cross. It is yours. It is a gift from the Father of us all. He loved us and sent His Son. Now we are free. The worst thing you could do is struggle to leave the LCs. Just realize that you are free and one day you will see the open door the Father has placed for you. Don't try to create your own door. Trust the Father.

Originally Posted by aron

The Bible has revelation ... beyond Nee and Lee's interpretive power. ...You got the interpretation they wanted at the time to keep their flock in line.

Originally Posted by Freedom

You may have noticed that my screen name is “Freedom”. I chose that name because in coming here, I want to free myself from anything that is keeping me from the Lord. Unfortunately this has just been the system of the LC itself. Though I am still in the LC, I look forward to the freedom that I will eventually realize.