Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Well put!

And interesting that you would allude to the 7 Day Adventists and their insistence on adhering to the sabbath shadow. It seems I've heard about them in various ways the last few days (in fellowship, on here and also on the radio). The SDA and the LC have much in common. They both live in the shadow (as KL points out); they adhere to and elevate a dead, so-called prophet; they separate themselves (elitism) from other believers based on their shadow-based doctrine; I think the SDA has a strong, central command & control; many are leaving because of these things, etc.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Great points KL, and btw, Welcome to the LCD Forum.

Please consider registering. Your inputs are valuable to the discussion. We have no great teachers here, rather the truth is made known, "here a little, there a little," (Isa 28.10) as we expose all the leaven of the Recovery.

You have just connected these verses for me Col 2.16-17 and John 4.21-23. Jesus and Paul both faced the same battle which could be summarized as the great transition from SHADOWS to REALITY. Jesus told the Samaritan woman that the hour is coming when the true worshipers will not worship in a physical place, neither the "right" mountain, nor the right city, nor the right temple/building. Jesus basically defined all true worship -- if you can see it, touch it, or go to it, then it's not real worship -- because real worship and real oneness is in the Spirit.

Apostle Paul went further in Colossians saying that all these things, including feasts and celebrations, are just shadows of things to come. They are not the real thing. Only Christ is the reality, or body, of these shadows.

For the LC's to use city boundaries or fellowship with the LSM Blendeds as their ground of oneness is the same in principle as using the Sabbath to unify us. Instead of uniting us in oneness, both simply divide the body of Christ further.

Originally Posted by KL.

One day he gave an answer to a question regarding what is a type or shadow? He said "A shadow is not the reality of a thing … a shadow is in a sense darkness (the absence of light). Consider this if the physical ground of locality (the city - like Jerusalem) is just a type or shadow the local church members are taking a stand in darkness. 1 John 1:5 states … God is light and in him is no darkness at all. How can you Abide in the Vine if you are taking a stand on/in darkness. James 1:17 when talking about God the Father says … with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. For a Christian to take a stand on a shadow (i.e. the physical city) while simultaneously criticizing another Christian for taking a stand on a shadow (i.e. Sabbath day) is the HIGH PEAK OF HYPOCRISY. I took the picture posted here to a meeting one day and some of the local church members understood my point … some of the others saw it and had fire and brimstone coming out of their ears and nostrils. It appears that a picture is truly worth a thousand words …

Originally Posted by KL.

I listen to Steve Gregg's "The Narrow Path" Q&A radio show often … he was very helpful in opening my eyes to the nonsense taught in the local churches. One day he gave an answer to a question regarding what is a type or shadow? He said "A shadow is not the reality of a thing … a shadow is in a sense darkness (the absence of light). Consider this if the physical ground of locality (the city - like Jerusalem) is just a type or shadow the local church members are taking a stand in darkness. 1 John 1:5 states … God is light and in him is no darkness at all. How can you Abide in the Vine if you are taking a stand on/in darkness. James 1:17 when talking about God the Father says … with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. For a Christian to take a stand on a shadow (i.e. the physical city) while simultaneously criticizing another Christian for taking a stand on a shadow (i.e. Sabbath day) is the HIGH PEAK OF HYPOCRISY. I took the picture posted here to a meeting one day and some of the local church members understood my point … some of the others saw it and had fire and brimstone coming out of their ears and nostrils. It appears that a picture is truly worth a thousand words …

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

I was listening to Steve Gregg on the radio today (ever listen to him?

Originally Posted by KL.

It is ironic that the main "mantra" in the local church is "Jesus is Lord!" I am glad jesusislord pointed out how ridiculous it is to take a stand on the ground of the city.

If Jesus is truly Lord then we have to acknowledge Him as Lord and King and follow His teachings and insight. Even the Samaritan woman acknowledge no one could change the proper ground/place for worship except the Messiah. She specifically asked if the proper place of worship was the "city" Jerusalem. Jesus answer is profound … He tells her that the Jews are right to worship on the proper ground in the "city" of Jerusalem … but goes on to say AN HOUR IS COMING AND NOW IS when the TRUE WORSHIPPERS WILL WORSHIP GOD IN SPIRIT AND TRUTHFULNESS (please note no mention of the city boundary). Christ even specifally says neither in the city or mountain will be the proper place. If you follow the logic Jesus presented a local church in the city of "Jerusalem" can not take the ground of the city as the proper ground of the church because Jesus told the Samaritan woman that the physical city "Jerusalem" is NOW not the proper ground.

Considering Jesus teaching he gave to the Samaritan woman it is totally disrespectful to our Lord to say the city is the proper ground of the church to worship. If Jesus is truly Lord we have no choice but drop the concept of the city as the proper ground for the church. The proper ground in the new covenant is not a physical city … it is a spiritual city that Christ is trying to build (In spirit and truthfulness) . A lie is a lie and the truth is the truth no matter how good the lie sounds.

Unfortunately in the "local churches" the leaders and members refuse to let Jesus be Lord!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This is a much larger issue! Sounds like they have no way to turn back says if they hold on the wrong teaching. When they're not open to other groups they can't be corrected.

Originally Posted by KL.

It is ironic that the main "mantra" in the local church is "Jesus is Lord!" I am glad jesusislord pointed out how ridiculous it is to take a stand on the ground of the city.

If Jesus is truly Lord then we have to acknowledge Him as Lord and King and follow His teachings and insight. Even the Samaritan woman acknowledge no one could change the proper ground/place for worship except the Messiah. She specifically asked if the proper place of worship was the "city" Jerusalem. Jesus answer is profound … He tells her that the Jews are right to worship on the proper ground in the "city" of Jerusalem … but goes on to say AN HOUR IS COMING AND NOW IS when the TRUE WORSHIPPERS WILL WORSHIP GOD IN SPIRIT AND TRUTHFULNESS (please note no mention of the city boundary). Christ even specifically says neither in the city or mountain will be the proper place. If you follow the logic Jesus presented a local church in the city of "Jerusalem" can not take the ground of the city as the proper ground of the church because Jesus told the Samaritan woman that the physical city "Jerusalem" is NOW not the proper ground.

Considering Jesus teaching he gave to the Samaritan woman it is totally disrespectful to our Lord to say the city is the proper ground of the church to worship. If Jesus is truly Lord we have no choice but drop the concept of the city as the proper ground for the church. The proper ground in the new covenant is not a physical city … it is a spiritual city that Christ is trying to build (In spirit and truthfulness) . A lie is a lie and the truth is the truth no matter how good the lie sounds.

Unfortunately in the "local churches" the leaders and members refuse to let Jesus be Lord!

Originally Posted by Ohio

Consider the primary addendum to their "one church one city" policy -- that only the apostles (i.e. The Anaheim leadership) can appoint elders in all the LC's.

They read the Bible like no other Christians on earth -- all through the lens of LSM's teachings. Not just are they controlled by the teachers in Anaheim -- the Mother of all LC's -- but all other teachers are just too "degraded" to even listen too.

Originally Posted by aron

Any attempt to reach out and acknowledge other believers was condemned by RK as "Building bridges to Babylon". I don't remember the date of that speech but I heard it, once. Of all the divisions, or sects, that have arisen over the past 2,000 years, the Local Church is one of the most divisive, adversarial, and sectarian that I can think of. Certainly in the top 10%. A "narrow view" indeed.

Originally Posted by jesusislord

It's ridiculous they still hold the false view of one church one city. They are dividing themselves from 99% of the member of the body practically. When they talk about the feelings of the members and the reality of the body of Christ, why they don't see the rest 99% of the member?

Is the Lord happy of this stand? Will they go back to the bible and look at others theologian view regarding this matter? All the negative things could have been avoided if they have fellowship more with other groups. Now they're even more closed to themselves with one stream of divine flow. It is so hard to make sense of it, why the Lc people don't see the problem with that. I remember brother Nee recognize the breathens as the pararrel work of God back in the days, but why it has became one divine stream and the stream have to be with the Lc? (less than one percent of the entire Christian in the world)

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Can you explain further? The members are so supportive of the doctrine where most of the Christians don't buy or see. But I do hope one day they will wake up and repent, they are digging a rabbit hole when they don't learn from the rest of the body.

Originally Posted by Ohio

The doctrine of "one church one city" is not about oneness but power.

Initially we could not know this fact because we believed that the proponents of this new teaching were godly and spiritual men. But like everything else in our Christian walk, time is needed for testing. (I Thess 5, Rom 12)

The actions of LSM have proven, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that my statement above is true. As I always say about politicians, "pay no attention to what they say, but what they do."

Originally Posted by jesusislord

It's ridiculous they still hold the false view of one church one city. They are dividing themselves from 99% of the member of the body practically. When they talk about the feelings of the members and the reality of the body of Christ, why they don't see the rest 99% of the member?

Is the Lord happy of this stand? Will they go back to the bible and look at others theologian view regarding this matter? All the negative things could have been avoided if they have fellowship more with other groups. Now they're even more closed to themselves with one stream of divine flow. It is so hard to make sense of it, why the Lc people don't see the problem with that. I remember brother Nee recognize the breathens as the pararrel work of God back in the days, but why it has became one divine stream and the stream have to be with the Lc? (less than one percent of the entire Christian in the world)