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08-19-2019 01:32 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I don't think it is a joke. Greenland has a population of 50,000, our military base must be a significant portion of their economy. If the US bought this island it would be very likely that the industry would double, the tourism would double, and the population would double.

2nd, Russia is already carving up the Arctic, Greenland makes an excellent base from which the US can lay a claim alongside Europe. If the Europeans want us side by side with them what better place than Greenland?
Yes, Thule AFB in Greenland was an incredible deterrent during the Cold War. It is without question that US military activity around the globe has been a force for peace and safety for the last century. The US has never operated as a colonial power like the Europeans have in the past 4 millennia. While I disagree with using the military for "neo-con democratization," such as in Iraq, who can imagine what the world might be like without the US? Unfortunately much of the US intelligence community (e.g. CIA) has not been so responsible.
08-19-2019 10:03 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
And think about all that beach front property!
I don't think it is a joke. Greenland has a population of 50,000, our military base must be a significant portion of their economy. If the US bought this island it would be very likely that the industry would double, the tourism would double, and the population would double.

2nd, Russia is already carving up the Arctic, Greenland makes an excellent base from which the US can lay a claim alongside Europe. If the Europeans want us side by side with them what better place than Greenland?
08-19-2019 09:16 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
When they say it is "rich in minerals" you should understand that water is a mineral. Regardless what else it has, that water is hugely valuable. Imagine beer, soft drink, and bottled water businesses.

It is already a military base and with ice melting out of the shipping lanes its value as a port increases dramatically.

It makes as much sense as Guam and Hawaii being part of America.
And think about all that beach front property!
08-19-2019 08:23 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
If Trump buys Greenland, the Dems will call it Donald's dottiness.
When they say it is "rich in minerals" you should understand that water is a mineral. Regardless what else it has, that water is hugely valuable. Imagine beer, soft drink, and bottled water businesses.

It is already a military base and with ice melting out of the shipping lanes its value as a port increases dramatically.

It makes as much sense as Guam and Hawaii being part of America.
08-19-2019 06:37 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
There are 766 quadrillion gallons of pure water, surely it is worth a whole lot more than millions.
If Trump buys Greenland, the Dems will call it Donald's dottiness.
08-16-2019 07:43 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Sell it. Worth millions!
There are 766 quadrillion gallons of pure water, surely it is worth a whole lot more than millions.
08-16-2019 01:26 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
First we have to get rid of all that ice!

Sell it. Worth millions!
08-16-2019 11:25 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Sounds like a bargain. Buy it!

And sell Puerto Rico! It has become just a corrupt money pit.
First we have to get rid of all that ice!
08-16-2019 11:24 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Shouldn't it be the US taxpayer that decides what kind of "investment" we put into college?
No. In this form of democracy, a democratic republic, it is the voters who are supposed to select representatives. So, the voters get to decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I have neighbor kids, seniors in HS, picked up in front of their house and transported a few hundred yards to school. Will we now provide free busing for college? Just how long will society delay the maturity of our kids?
That may be true, but what is also true is that the world has been transformed since the day that 13 year olds were independent bread winners, getting married, getting their own house, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
What makes college valuable is making it optional, and paying for it yourself. We already have high schools who are not allowed to flunk kids who refuse to pass. Now we will have college kids who can't do math either. What's next, a Master of Science for the illiterate?
Providing free public school education for everyone has not increased illiteracy, on the contrary the average american is far more educated today than they were in 1850.
08-16-2019 10:10 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Greenland is about 300 times bigger than Puerto Rico and has a population 1/60th that of Puerto Rico.

The country has a population of 50,000, that isn't even a large city in the US, more of a small city.
Sounds like a bargain. Buy it!

And sell Puerto Rico! It has become just a corrupt money pit.
08-16-2019 10:10 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
True, this is why I consider it an investment. Who completes college that isn't planning on working which will most likely result in a career 40 years long of paying taxes back to the government. If we spend $1.5 trillion and get $5 trillion back in taxes it is a good investment. Why shouldn't the government invest in people? The government is in the business of collecting taxes, people with college degrees on average will pay more in their lifetime in taxes than those without. It is a good investment.
Shouldn't it be the US taxpayer that decides what kind of "investment" we put into college?

I have neighbor kids, seniors in HS, picked up in front of their house and transported a few hundred yards to school. Will we now provide free busing for college? Just how long will society delay the maturity of our kids?

What makes college valuable is making it optional, and paying for it yourself. We already have high schools who are not allowed to flunk kids who refuse to pass. Now we will have college kids who can't do math either. What's next, a Master of Science for the illiterate?
08-16-2019 09:27 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Greenland is about 300 times bigger than Puerto Rico and has a population 1/60th that of Puerto Rico.

The country has a population of 50,000, that isn't even a large city in the US, more of a small city.
08-16-2019 08:15 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Your definition is short-sighted and not accurate. It does not take into account potential earnings. I am "poor" living off investment income, when my son graduated with college loans he was quite "rich." It just took a few years to prove where we both were at. Putting his student debt on my back would be a gross injustice.
True, this is why I consider it an investment. Who completes college that isn't planning on working which will most likely result in a career 40 years long of paying taxes back to the government. If we spend $1.5 trillion and get $5 trillion back in taxes it is a good investment. Why shouldn't the government invest in people? The government is in the business of collecting taxes, people with college degrees on average will pay more in their lifetime in taxes than those without. It is a good investment.

Also, in this case "a higher tide will lift all boats" is appropriate.
08-16-2019 06:39 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
By definition no one with a college debt is rich. I define rich as someone who can live off of their investment income. In most cases it would be foolish to have that kind of money and carry a college loan.
Your definition is short-sighted and not accurate. It does not take into account potential earnings. I am "poor" living off investment income, when my son graduated with college loans he was quite "rich." It just took a few years to prove where we both were at. Putting his student debt on my back would be a gross injustice.
08-15-2019 04:37 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Using the language of the Dems, your plan is RACIST!

It gives money to the rich and takes from the poor!

But like Joe Biden says, "poor people are just as smart as white people."
By definition no one with a college debt is rich. I define rich as someone who can live off of their investment income. In most cases it would be foolish to have that kind of money and carry a college loan.
08-15-2019 03:49 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Total US Student debt carried by the government is $1.5 trillion. That is about 1/3 of our budget. Total US debt is 22 trillion. Wiping out this debt would increase our overall US debt by 6.8%. However, for every single person that had the debt forgiven it would improve their balance sheet tremendously, which in turn would enable them to borrow $2 trillion or more, most likely for mortgages and cars. It would be the biggest jobs program and stimulus package ever given to the US. Obama's stimulus package was about half of that ($720 billion).

You could see it as an investment in college graduates. So one possible way to roll it out would be to wipe out half. But realize this, if this resulted in $2 trillion in new purchases 40% of that returns to the US the first year in taxes.
Using the language of the Dems, your plan is RACIST!

It gives money to the rich and takes from the poor!

But like Joe Biden says, "poor people are just as smart as white people."
08-15-2019 03:11 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
There's no way past student debt will be forgiven by Congress. Why should expensive Oberlin College tuition be forgiven for someone whose only ambition was to be a Social Justice Warrior taking down a local sweet shop? They could have gone to the Community College for 1/10th the cost, and got a useful degree.

Warren's plan is just a novel campaign strategy. Everyone knows that college age kids have more time and energy than the working class and the elderly. Sander's people may make the most noise, and be the most proficient on social media, but these kids can't even support themselves. Their small donations are Daddy's money anyways.
Total US Student debt carried by the government is $1.5 trillion. That is about 1/3 of our budget. Total US debt is 22 trillion. Wiping out this debt would increase our overall US debt by 6.8%. However, for every single person that had the debt forgiven it would improve their balance sheet tremendously, which in turn would enable them to borrow $2 trillion or more, most likely for mortgages and cars. It would be the biggest jobs program and stimulus package ever given to the US. Obama's stimulus package was about half of that ($720 billion).

You could see it as an investment in college graduates. So one possible way to roll it out would be to wipe out half. But realize this, if this resulted in $2 trillion in new purchases 40% of that returns to the US the first year in taxes.
08-15-2019 02:33 PM
OBW
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Why is it so easy to blast Christians these days?
I wasn't blasting Christians. I was noting something that should be considered un-Christian. However, I do hear Christians using that rhetoric and therefore find them to be Christians worthy of the moniker "un-Christian."

Quote:
I find it so oxymoronic that you hate the way the "border is being politicized," yet you take the political position pushed by the Left.
Which position "pushed by the left" did I take? I really spoke concerning two things:

1) The inhumane treatment of those who have, or want to, enter the US, but coupled with an admission that a more rational approach to securing the border and fixing immigration policy (however that turns out). While I have an opinion as to how that turns out, I am less concerned about that than the hateful way that the whole situation is being handled.

2) The inability of either party to work within a budget that will cease increases to the national debt. I recognize that there may be economic reasons to have strategic deficit spending for temporary periods, though I doubt that could possibly be anywhere approaching the levels of the past several years. I admit that if there is going to be deficit spending, I am more likely to prefer that the money goes to something other than Medicare for all or school debt termination. But if the choice is between ever-increasing deficit spending that will be spent in a "conservative"/Republican way or a federal budget without any addition to the deficit that tries to take on some part of either of those, I will vote with the liberals. Why? Because for me, it is more important to operate within the fiscal means of the government no matter which ideology is in charge than to overspend on the "right" things.


I'll pick on a few of your so-called "facts"

Quote:
[*]Why is it evil to treat "illegal immigrants" as criminals? Have we lost all sense of law and order? Who is treating these criminals as vermin? Obviously you have not been hurt by an illegal alien.
What makes them criminals? That they crossed the border? Have you gone over the speed limit in the past year? Slipped through a light on "pink?" . . . .

No, I have not been hurt by an illegal alien (that I know of).
Or a legal alien.
Or a second generation of immigrant heritage (that I know of).

But I have been T-boned by a WASP kid running a red light so he could deliver his pizza faster. I guess I should be clamoring for the round up and deportation of WASPs.

Those kinds of positions are how racism comes to be. One of a particular group does something and all others are immediately equated and put on a "hate list" or "hit list." At this point, I should be horribly afraid to get on an airplane on which any other white people have boarded because one of them might be the next Timothy McVey.

I know. That is ridiculous. But what has any illegal alien done to you to make you want them rounded up and deported? I recognize that ICE can, and probably should, deport more. But they should do it in some consistent and rational manner. Not just flashy raids to make news. In the mean time, if the guy mowing my lawn (well, who used to mow my lawn since I do it myself now), turns out to be illegal, I am not sure how I am harmed, or harming anyone else if I just ignore it. If he is identified and deported, I know it is a risk the man (or members of his crew?) took to be here. But I do not see anyone else offering to mow my yard, even at higher prices. It seems to be a business otherwise lacking interest, or only willing to be done at a price I would not pay anyone for.

So while I recognize that it behooves us to either get everyone in-country registered or deported, I am not seeing anything more than a photo-op to make the kind of hay out of it that is happening at the moment. And I know that the Democrats are doing the same. It is part of the horribly broke government we currently have. One that doesn't even work when all parts are allegedly controlled by the same party.

Quote:
[*]Why are Christians in the US not commended for having the most generous immigration policies in the history of mankind?
The only immigration policies that matter are the ones that the government has. While some of those may align with what some Christians would want, other parts of those policies may not. And between Christians, there is difference of opinion as to what the policies should be. So I am not sure how to respond to a request to commend "Christians in the US" for their generous immigration policies.

I do think that the Christian should be generous to the alien no matter what the nation's policies are. That does not mean that I think they should directly oppose the legal policies where they disagree (although some think that Christians should be more "civilly disobedient" in some cases — I have some problems with that). But I do agree that Christians — especially in our democratic (republican?) government should encourage policies that reasonably balance a need for security and economic stability with a desire to continue to live according to that old "give me your tired, your poor" ideal.

And I do not have a problem with Christians who actually do business with, or otherwise provide assistance to illegal aliens. My wife works for a clinic that only sees those who are covered by Medicaid, CHIPs (state health insurance), or have no insurance. Within that population there are many immigrants, both illegal and legal. There is even a nurse's aid that would be what you call a "dreamer." She was not born here but does not remember anything but the DFW area. Since she has a SS number, the government will have to figure it out. Meanwhile, she is working and paying taxes and is treated as a legal alien. I have no problem with that.

Should the government actually do something to either deport or otherwise eliminate the "dreamer" issue? And create immigration policy that recognizes legitimate asylum issues, and our own economic appetite for immigrants? Surely. And meanwhile, we need to make the border more secure. I personally do not think that billions for a fence is the answer except in specific places. But that is only an opinion and I would be glad to have an overall border/immigration strategy that deals with that. But simply shutting it down and putting people on this side of the border in the equivalent of WWII internment camps as used on those of Japanese descent along the West coast is not a viable answer.

Quote:
[*]Why is it evil to demand vetting? Why is it un-Christian to suspect that sex-traffickers are using girls and boys for gain? Why is it xenophobic and unloving to investigate young males crossing the border?
Never said any such thing. In fact, I did not discuss these particular situations at all. In effect, this is a strawman argument.

I have no problem with vetting. Otherwise everyone will be able to find some bogyman that they can argue should grant them asylum.

There is nothing un-Christian in thinking that sex traffickers are doing anything particular. The very label "sex traffickers" makes the rest of your question irrelevant. If they are sex traffickers, then what they do with anyone of any age is something that is illegal in the US.

Quote:
[*]Why even have rules and laws and waiting lists for those those who abide by the law?
huh? Laws are required to clarify what and how those who do not abide by the law will be dealt. And they also help to make the unthinking think a little before they act in just any manner. But it does nothing to those who would not violate the law.
Quote:
[*]What is the limit the US can provide? When immigrants are provided with welfare, free health care, food stamps, housing, etc. there is incentive for 5 Billion others to also come here. Congress placed limits on immigration for a reason, so now we throw out all of those limits?
And simply making the amount of immigration unlimited and without any consideration would be counter-productive. But if we are willing to take people seeking asylum, then we accept that those often will not be the most economically viable.

And is has been noted that part of the ever-growing US economy is the ever-increasing population. (I'm not sure how related the two are, but there have been studies and articles about it.) And with the decrease in the overall population growth of the country (without immigration), then immigration could bolster that. But immigration policy in the past couple of decades has actually been decreasing. So it could be argued that it is, in part, the increase created by the illegals that has helped to bolster the economy. (Again, I am not sure how far this can be taken, so don't just jump on me about it.)

Surely to have immigration that is entirely reliant on government largess would be relatively useless. But when you argue that use of government benefits is the reason to reduce or eliminate immigration, you oversimplify the complex rationale for having particular policies and then how those policies will be applied in particular cases.

Quote:
[*]Do you really think that this kind of "Christian charity" is sustainable?
Government benefits are not "Christian charity," even though it could be argued that this is what God would require of us (the Christians, not the nation as a whole) to the extent that any of these are reasonably our "neighbor." And while I live in a suburb with a relatively high socioeconomic average, my middle-to-upper-middle-class neighborhood is only 3 blocks from a trailer park. Assuming some of those there are illegal, they are my neighbor.

Quote:
[*]Do you really think that open borders will stop the media, the Dems, you, and awareness from thinking that all of us Christians are "mean-spirited" for wanting border security?
Strawman. I never proposed open borders. And I did not say that Christians are mean-spirited to want border security. I want border security. The mean-spirited comment (however I made it) would be related to how we talk about the people who are already across the border or who have come to it to request entrance. The problem with the border is US policy (and implementation of that policy), not immigrants. To speak of the people using the words that are constantly plastered in the media — things like referring to them and their countries as S#|+#0]3 — is very un-Christian. But even if it is decided to absolutely close the borders to anyone for some period of time, the people who want in (or are already in) do not deserve those comments. Or any other ethnically-derogatory remarks.

* * * *

Please support the immigration policies you think are best — from political, social, economic, security, and Christian perspectives. They do not have to agree with what I would support. But the whole process should not find those who are Christian speaking in such a way about any of the people involved (including the participants in the policy-making, the policy implementation, and those seeking to take advantage of whatever policies there are to come into the country).

And it could be argued that the general government policy for the past 30 years has been somewhat hidden in that it has relied on turning a blind eye to infractions so that it could be more open to southern-border immigration without actually removing any of the written policies. If that is the case, then it is probably obvious that they should have returned to enforcement some years ago. And they should have long ago dealt with what to do with those who got in during periods of non-enforcement. But that is yet a different discussion.
08-14-2019 01:09 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I consider Trump to be an excellent campaigner. Putting AOC plus 3 as the face of the Democratic party, excellent. Dragging out the tariff war with China so that it will be a major campaign issue, also brilliant.

Bernie Sanders doubling down on "medicare for all" is lame. Who doesn't have health insurance? The unemployed and under employed. This group rarely votes, particularly in primaries. In contrast the whole "forgiving the college debt" that Warren is pushing, now that will be huge if she is to be believed. Why hasn't she already submitted a bill? Why do we need to elect her to president before she'll submit this bill?
There's no way past student debt will be forgiven by Congress. Why should expensive Oberlin College tuition be forgiven for someone whose only ambition was to be a Social Justice Warrior taking down a local sweet shop? They could have gone to the Community College for 1/10th the cost, and got a useful degree.

Warren's plan is just a novel campaign strategy. Everyone knows that college age kids have more time and energy than the working class and the elderly. Sander's people may make the most noise, and be the most proficient on social media, but these kids can't even support themselves. Their small donations are Daddy's money anyways.
08-14-2019 11:44 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
If the corporate oligarchy really does provide our candidates, thus delegitimizing our democratic process, then you should be somewhat happy with Trump's presidency. Obviously, the entire DC swamp state hates him. He was never their choice.
I consider Trump to be an excellent campaigner. Putting AOC plus 3 as the face of the Democratic party, excellent. Dragging out the tariff war with China so that it will be a major campaign issue, also brilliant.

Bernie Sanders doubling down on "medicare for all" is lame. Who doesn't have health insurance? The unemployed and under employed. This group rarely votes, particularly in primaries. In contrast the whole "forgiving the college debt" that Warren is pushing, now that will be huge if she is to be believed. Why hasn't she already submitted a bill? Why do we need to elect her to president before she'll submit this bill?
08-14-2019 08:45 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
This is a corporate oligarchy whose marketing campaign is aimed at "conservatives" vs "progressives" but the reality is whoever pays to get the President, Senate and Congress elected gets the government laws and grants that they wanted.

This is why I reject the notion that it is your responsibility to vote. If everyone votes it legitimizes the process. The corporations decide which two candidates you get to vote for, it doesn't matter to them, and we are left with the illusion of a democracy.
If the corporate oligarchy really does provide our candidates, thus delegitimizing our democratic process, then you should be somewhat happy with Trump's presidency. Obviously, the entire DC swamp state hates him. He was never their choice.
08-14-2019 08:41 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW View Post
Irrelevant.

I cannot stomach the way that the border is being politicized. There is something un-Christian in taking the position that people made in the image of God are simply to be vilified for seeking something better. Neither opening the border nor closing it or ranting about it is the answer. Opening it is not wise for purposes of economics and security. But speaking about and treating illegal immigrants (people, not vermin) in the way we are should be embarrassing to any Christian.
These comments are so naive on so many fronts. Why is it so easy to blast Christians these days? Just watch the media, and ammo up! I find it so oxymoronic that you hate the way the "border is being politicized," yet you take the political position pushed by the Left.

Here are some facts and questions:
  • Politicking entered into high gear with the picture of kids behind chain-link fences. Trump was condemned 24/7 throughout the media. Did anyone care to note that the pic was from 2014 under the Obama admin?
  • All of last winter, Trump clamored for Congressional help to address the border. He was willing to shut down the G-ment to get their attention. Dems and the Media dismissed Trump as a crazed lunatic manufacturing a crisis. Come Spring time, they changed their story and began to condemn Trump for the "crisis."
  • Why is it evil to treat "illegal immigrants" as criminals? Have we lost all sense of law and order? Who is treating these criminals as vermin? Obviously you have not been hurt by an illegal alien.
  • Why are Christians in the US not commended for having the most generous immigration policies in the history of mankind?
  • Why is it evil to demand vetting? Why is it un-Christian to suspect that sex-traffickers are using girls and boys for gain? Why is it xenophobic and unloving to investigate young males crossing the border?
  • Why even have rules and laws and waiting lists for those those who abide by the law?
  • What is the limit the US can provide? When immigrants are provided with welfare, free health care, food stamps, housing, etc. there is incentive for 5 Billion others to also come here. Congress placed limits on immigration for a reason, so now we throw out all of those limits?
  • Do you really think that this kind of "Christian charity" is sustainable?
  • Do you really think that open borders will stop the media, the Dems, you, and awareness from thinking that all of us Christians are "mean-spirited" for wanting border security?
08-13-2019 11:35 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW View Post
Irrelevant.

My point was not to agree with the far left of the Democratic party. It was to point out that the one of the biggest problems is the constant increase in deficit spending. I am sure that there being any of the Democrats really being willing to reign in overall spending while trying to implement any of these new proposals is roughly zero.

But while we (conservatives) like what the conservative side is spending too much money on, they are overspending just as much as the other side. We have roughly 3 decades of recent history to show this to be true. Deficit spending has increased steadily under all regimes.

My problem is that conservatism has failed to actually be conservatism, but has been usurped by reactionary dreamers (I could elaborate, but don't want to inflame anyone). Conservatism used to be seen as slow change with fiscal responsibility. But now it has turned into no change (or reverse course) but with little or no fiscal responsibility.
This is a corporate oligarchy whose marketing campaign is aimed at "conservatives" vs "progressives" but the reality is whoever pays to get the President, Senate and Congress elected gets the government laws and grants that they wanted.

This is why I reject the notion that it is your responsibility to vote. If everyone votes it legitimizes the process. The corporations decide which two candidates you get to vote for, it doesn't matter to them, and we are left with the illusion of a democracy.
08-13-2019 08:17 AM
OBW
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Excuse me ... hmmm ... have you been to Venezuela lately?

Until Hugo Chavez and folks like the "Squad" took over, Venezuela was the jewel of Central and South America.
Irrelevant.

My point was not to agree with the far left of the Democratic party. It was to point out that the one of the biggest problems is the constant increase in deficit spending. I am sure that there being any of the Democrats really being willing to reign in overall spending while trying to implement any of these new proposals is roughly zero.

But while we (conservatives) like what the conservative side is spending too much money on, they are overspending just as much as the other side. We have roughly 3 decades of recent history to show this to be true. Deficit spending has increased steadily under all regimes.

My problem is that conservatism has failed to actually be conservatism, but has been usurped by reactionary dreamers (I could elaborate, but don't want to inflame anyone). Conservatism used to be seen as slow change with fiscal responsibility. But now it has turned into no change (or reverse course) but with little or no fiscal responsibility.

But when I look at the country, I see that there must be change. Not like AOC and the far left want. But simply digging-in and turning isolationist — and mean — is not the answer. I have so far been unable to go to the left of middle to find a moderate. Partly because there appears to be no moderates on either side (at least that are willing to step up and take part in the process).

I cannot stomach the way that the border is being politicized. There is something un-Christian in taking the position that people made in the image of God are simply to be vilified for seeking something better. Neither opening the border nor closing it or ranting about it is the answer. Opening it is not wise for purposes of economics and security. But speaking about and treating illegal immigrants (people, not vermin) in the way we are should be embarrassing to any Christian.

Something has to change. Neither Trump nor Bernie/Joe/Kamala, etc., are the answer. It is going to require something different. The recognition that guns and prisons are not the answer. That exorbitantly expensive universities that don't really focus on the students is not the answer. That cheap universities that can't hire qualified professors is not the answer. That neither open borders nor closed borders are the answer.

And that for the Christian, loving your neighbor as yourself is not found in protests against any of it — Trump, Bernie, Kamala, immigrants, the border, Islam, gays, etc.

Politically, something not on either fence — nearer to the middle —is needed to reignite something that even might resemble the America that so many are pining for. It is not in fighting for a "Christian" America, creating a socialist utopia, or returning to some kind of "good old days" (that probably never existed). It is solving a border issue, finding things that we do not need to spend tax dollars on, reorganizing what we do spend our tax dollars on, etc.

And for the Christian, it is doing and saying whatever we do or say in love. Not just for ourselves, but for anyone who is hearing it or on the receiving end of the actions.

(And saying it in love is not like the old joke about nicknames for missiles. . . . "Hallmark, when you care to send the very best.")
08-10-2019 03:53 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
“Terrible things are happening outside. At any time of night and day, poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes...Families are torn apart: men, women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find their parents have disappeared s..”

-Anne frank
She and her family were denied asylum in the us...
Denied asylum in 170 other countries too! Do you also condemn all of them?

Open borders and free welfare, health insurance, guaranteed income, food stamps, etc. means that 7 billion more people want to come here. At what point then do people here all want out?
08-10-2019 02:53 PM
Unregistered
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry View Post
I'm all for immigration. That's how my wife and nieces were able to come here. Not only them but friends and co-workers.
Not one should begrudge someone from making a better life for themselves here, but there's a process to go through.
Why are people needing to cross the border where there is no crossing? Like you say Ohio it seems to be for nefarious reason whether it be drugs, human trafficking.
“Terrible things are happening outside. At any time of night and day, poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes...Families are torn apart: men, women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find their parents have disappeared s..”

-Anne frank
She and her family were denied asylum in the us...
08-10-2019 05:11 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
It has gone down. Not sure the percentage. But not in Chicago.
Yes, decreased by 70%. I think the most logical explanation is that catching and convicting the actual perpetrator of a crime has a real impact on crime. If we could continue to make headway with that we could continue to see these dramatic improvements.
08-10-2019 04:50 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry View Post
I'm all for immigration. That's how my wife and nieces were able to come here. Not only them but friends and co-workers.
Not one should begrudge someone from making a better life for themselves here, but there's a process to go through.
Why are people needing to cross the border where there is no crossing? Like you say Ohio it seems to be for nefarious reason whether it be drugs, human trafficking.
Every day all day the media lies to us that Trump hates immigrants.

Nothing could be further from the truth, but you would never know that listening to them. Their twisted goal is to distort the issue.

Trump wanted legal immigrants. It's a law and order matter. Every country in the world has secure borders, except the USA. That's the Left's goal to destroy us.
08-10-2019 04:45 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Question

Since 1994 the rate of violent crime in the US has

A. Tripled

B. Stayed the same

C. Decreased by 70%
It has gone down. Not sure the percentage. But not in Chicago.
08-09-2019 11:18 PM
Terry
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
No one is against immigrants who come here legally, only those who cheat. Many of those who cheat do so for nefarious reasons. MS-13 anyone?
I'm all for immigration. That's how my wife and nieces were able to come here. Not only them but friends and co-workers.
Not one should begrudge someone from making a better life for themselves here, but there's a process to go through.
Why are people needing to cross the border where there is no crossing? Like you say Ohio it seems to be for nefarious reason whether it be drugs, human trafficking.
08-05-2019 04:52 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Question

Since 1994 the rate of violent crime in the US has

A. Tripled

B. Stayed the same

C. Decreased by 70%
08-04-2019 04:02 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Bernie Sanders has a plan to wipe out college debt and make state colleges tuition free. My youngest son is going into 12th grade. He has my vote.
08-04-2019 05:15 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Today, Aug 4 -- I count 56 mass shootings in the US since July 1, 2019
08-01-2019 05:28 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
No one is against immigrants who come here legally, only those who cheat. Many of those who cheat do so for nefarious reasons. MS-13 anyone?

Talk to officials from DHS/ICE/CBP. They are screaming for help. All they get are lies, distortions, and fabrications from the likes of AOC and other Dem politicians. Elijah Cummings screams about the border as if he cares, yet his own district is a rat-infested nightmare compared to the border.
Think of the total hypocrisy. Trump asked for a couple of billion dollars to build this "wall" (more of a very, very good fence). I heard we spent 1.5 trillion so far on the war that began with Bush in the middle East. No complaints, no grandstanding, no complaints that this is racist, xenophobic, etc. Every president, Democrat or Republican, has been for better border security. Everyone agrees (now) that it is reaching crisis levels. So why the big, big debate over a couple of billion dollars?

I have already explained that 40% will be returned to the US the very first year in taxes from those paid to build the wall. At the very least it will be a jobs program. The cost is trivial. The purpose for the debate is not about money, the purpose is to distract the US citizens. People who are losing their jobs can think the Republicans are doing something about it, but the reality is they are losing jobs to technology, not immigrants.
08-01-2019 10:50 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Immigrants are being scapegoated.

Why the big deal about immigrants and the wall?

Simple smoke and mirrors -- point at the border and let everyone huff and puff about that until it is too late and there is nothing to be done about it anymore.
No one is against immigrants who come here legally, only those who cheat. Many of those who cheat do so for nefarious reasons. MS-13 anyone?

Talk to officials from DHS/ICE/CBP. They are screaming for help. All they get are lies, distortions, and fabrications from the likes of AOC and other Dem politicians. Elijah Cummings screams about the border as if he cares, yet his own district is a rat-infested nightmare compared to the border.
08-01-2019 06:51 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Immigrants are being scapegoated.

Why the big deal about immigrants and the wall? People are losing their jobs and they assume it is to lower wage immigrants. The truth is they are losing their jobs to technology -- robots, AI, automated tellers, etc.

Simple smoke and mirrors -- point at the border and let everyone huff and puff about that until it is too late and there is nothing to be done about it anymore.

I got a coffee at a McDonalds the other day and they have 4 automated kiosks. You simply pick out what you want, pay for it with a card, and then pick it up at the take out window. Instead of 4 cashiers they had 1.
07-31-2019 10:14 AM
Ohio
Re: Hypocrisy on display

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
If Cummings says it — moral courage.

If Trump says it — an abomination

If Bernie Sanders says it — no problem

If Trump says it — racist

If Cummings criticizes Trump — needed to be said

If Trump criticizes Cummings — doesn’t have the maturity to take criticism

If HBO produces a 5 season docudrama about corruption in Baltimore — They get nominated for a variety of different awards including two Primetime Emmy Awards, fifteen NAACP Image Awards, two Edgar Awards (one win), three Writers Guild of America Awards (one win), one Directors Guild of America Award, and has also won a Peabody Award.

If Trump says the same thing — The creator of the Wire calls him a racist moron.
The worst thing about Political Correctness is that persons of any so-called "minority" status can no longer be held accountable for their actions.

How can we have leaders like this??

If Cummings is challenged, Trump a racist.

If Hilary is challenged, Trump a misogynist.

If Omar is challenged, Trump an islamophobe.

If border policies in the House are challenged, Trump is a xenophobe.

How can we have leaders like this?? And this is why I will guarantee than "old, white, men" like Biden and Bernie cannot win the Democratic ticket.
07-30-2019 07:38 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Hypocrisy on display

If Cummings says it — moral courage.

If Trump says it — an abomination

If Bernie Sanders says it — no problem

If Trump says it — racist

If Cummings criticizes Trump — needed to be said

If Trump criticizes Cummings — doesn’t have the maturity to take criticism

If HBO produces a 5 season docudrama about corruption in Baltimore — They get nominated for a variety of different awards including two Primetime Emmy Awards, fifteen NAACP Image Awards, two Edgar Awards (one win), three Writers Guild of America Awards (one win), one Directors Guild of America Award, and has also won a Peabody Award.

If Trump says the same thing — The creator of the Wire calls him a racist moron.
07-30-2019 06:34 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Al Sharpton on the Trump vs Cummings debate

"He’s not mature enough to take criticism"

Am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy here? Cummings criticized Trumps handling of immigrants, Trump criticizes Cummings handling of Baltimore and then the whole world erupts over Trump's criticism while silent about Cummings criticism.

"It is an abomination to me that he would attack Cummings who has the moral courage to question how the immigrants are being treated."


Seriously? Cummings has the moral courage to question how immigrants are being treated but it is an abomination if Trump questions how people of Baltimore are being treated?
07-30-2019 05:52 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

The poverty rate is over 22%, and the population is shrinking. The city’s politics are riven with endemic corruption — former Mayor Catherine Pugh resigned in disgrace this May. She's the third Baltimore mayor in a row to leave in the wake of intense scandal. Baltimore is dotted with thousands of vacant buildings, and as for rodents, exterminator Orkin listed Baltimore in the top 10 of its annual survey of “rattiest cities.” The 1970s promotional nickname “Charm City” is as ironic as ever.

Also, to continue with the hypocrisy you can look at Bernie Sanders comments on Baltimore while blasting Trump for making similar remarks.

The entire fracas erupted when Cummings was attacking homeland security officials about the conditions at the border. It seems like a very reasonable point that Cummings seems to care less about the people he represents than he does about people who have entered the US illegally.

Other hypocrisy is to blame Trump for the problem because he is President the last two years and give Cummings a pass who has been the Baltimore representative for decades.
07-29-2019 01:43 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Meanwhile, Mar-a-Logo has had over 70 sanitary violations due to infestations. I take it from your post that you're concerned about hypocrisy.
Yes, good point. Also Kushner owns rat infested properties in Baltimore, another excellent example of hypocrisy.
07-29-2019 08:35 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Trump calls Baltimore "a rodent infested mess" where "no human being would want to live".

The Wire creator calls Trump "Racist moron".

Now this is the perfect example of the hypocrisy of these TV producers. If you are not familiar with the Wire it portrays the drug war in the 90s. Baltimore is the central character. But in addition to drug gangs and a bureaucratic nightmare of a police department they portray every single politician as a liar and a fraud, likewise the school system is portrayed similarly, with the bureaucracy being the main reason for a failed system that is little more than baby sitting. A local dock union is shown to be in league with drug smugglers and killers. This TV show portrayed the city as a rat infested mess, either literally or figuratively. So this man made his fortune portraying Baltimore as a "rat infested mess" and when someone actually internalizes it he calls them a "racist moron". The show is famous for "telling the truth", and "telling it like it is".
Meanwhile, Mar-a-Logo has had over 70 sanitary violations due to infestations. I take it from your post that you're concerned about hypocrisy.
07-29-2019 05:51 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Trump calls Baltimore "a rodent infested mess" where "no human being would want to live".

The Wire creator calls Trump "Racist moron".

Now this is the perfect example of the hypocrisy of these TV producers. If you are not familiar with the Wire it portrays the drug war in the 90s. Baltimore is the central character. But in addition to drug gangs and a bureaucratic nightmare of a police department they portray every single politician as a liar and a fraud, likewise the school system is portrayed similarly, with the bureaucracy being the main reason for a failed system that is little more than baby sitting. A local dock union is shown to be in league with drug smugglers and killers. This TV show portrayed the city as a rat infested mess, either literally or figuratively. So this man made his fortune portraying Baltimore as a "rat infested mess" and when someone actually internalizes it he calls them a "racist moron". The show is famous for "telling the truth", and "telling it like it is".
07-28-2019 01:33 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Elizabeth Warren Wants to Transfer $640 Billion in Student Loan Debt to Taxpayers

It is against the law to buy votes, so how is this legal? There are 44 million people in the US with student loan debt. Most likely a very high percent of them is eligible to vote.
07-23-2019 09:39 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Ralph Kramden : "Alice, one of these days, to the moon."
07-23-2019 09:23 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

07-21-2019 03:12 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I can't afford health insurance, but it is now available to all immigrants.
Can you please possibly provide links of this claim about heath insurance being provided to all immigrants?

I've been keeping up with the news for a long time. Have read lots on the immigrants, and haven't come across these claims.
07-21-2019 05:36 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
You can manipulate statistics any way you like. You see improvement every where yet we are now like 40th in the world, and getting worse.

Never is your statistical sleight of hand so evident as with these socialist policies. Only a few conservative news sites even mention the tremendous societal deteriorations in these scandanavian countries with mandatory open borders. Soon these countries will reach the breaking point.

The Democratic platform already rejects all pro-life candidates. It now is pushing to espouse post birth abortion, open borders for all, free health care for illegals, free college for all, guaranteed living wage, income equality, green new deals, elimination of fossil fuels, private vehicles, cows, and planes.

But Im sure we can save some money here without making lame arguments.
College graduates less likely to be in poverty

https://www.thirdway.org/report/ripp...e-dropout-rate

This study shows that if we could raise the college graduation rate to be equal to that of the HS graduation rate it would result in an additional $90 billion in tax revenue. There would also be decreased poverty and unemployment, hence a lower burden on government programs.

also, this is one effective way to close the education gap. Although many countries have a more effective high school education, if the US has a higher rate of college graduates we can catch up. It is a marathon, not a sprint. We are 12th worldwide, and the four leading countries are all around 55%. High school graduation rate is 84%. 38% of kids drop out of college because of financial pressure. Simply removing that pressure can immediately vault us into the top tier of educated countries in the world. We can eliminate it without it costing us anything, it is a proven fact that college educations pay for themselves.

http://www.duck9.com/College-Student-Drop-Out-Rates.htm

I thought the goal was to make America great again. Raising our college graduation rate to 55% of US citizens is one cost effective way to do that.

Also consider this -- if tuition in State schools is free to residents then 100% of the government money is spent in the US, virtually all of it for jobs and 40% of that money will come back to the US as tax revenue the first year (income tax, etc). The other 60% will go into the community (grocery stores, mortgages, cars, etc), and those recipients will also be paying tax. So another 20% returns to the government as tax revenue in the very first year. The government can pay for tuition and get 60% back the very first year.
07-21-2019 04:50 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

You can manipulate statistics any way you like. You see improvement every where yet we are now like 40th in the world, and getting worse.

Never is your statistical sleight of hand so evident as with these socialist policies. Only a few conservative news sites even mention the tremendous societal deteriorations in these scandanavian countries with mandatory open borders. Soon these countries will reach the breaking point.

The Democratic platform already rejects all pro-life candidates. It now is pushing to espouse post birth abortion, open borders for all, free health care for illegals, free college for all, guaranteed living wage, income equality, green new deals, elimination of fossil fuels, private vehicles, cows, and planes.

But Im sure we can save some money here without making lame arguments.
07-20-2019 06:03 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Free education cannot guarantee basic literacy, as proven by current HS education. The cost and benefits of free education must be provided to every child on earth, since open borders accompanies these programs.
Education in this country is improving. I work as inner city as you can get and our kids are extremely motivated to go to college. The fact that the inner city education is worse than the suburbs is transparent to all, that is the first step in remedying the problem, identifying it. Likewise, US education as a whole is worse than 40 other countries that don't spend as much as us per capita. That is an issue that can be fixed without costing more money. Finally, if you look at my kids they scored in the top 7% of all NYC schools. That includes schools like Stuyvesant, Bronx HS of science and other nationally ranked schools. But if you look a little deeper, for example let's just look at schools where the kids improved off of their Living Environment Score (the test they take prior to Earth Science) my kids scored in the top 2%. But look a little deeper, anyone can improve their mean average by keeping the poorest performing kids from taking the exam. So if you include the % of kids who took the test in your assessment my kids were #1 in all of NYC. These kids are 25% English Language learners and 25% special education. They go to the same building as the kids at the very bottom of NYC. At some point during the school year about 25% of them are homeless in any given year. Yet, give them a chance and they can compete with the best and brightest in the US, even though those kids start the year with scores 20% higher in Math, English, and Living Environment.

So I completely repudiate the snide remark about literacy. Likewise, the bogus claim of we can't educate our kids because we'll have to educate the whole world. Those the two lamest arguments I have ever heard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Same with Medicare for all. Open borders extends these benefits to all mankind. Any projected cost must be multiplied by a couple orders of magnitude. I can't afford health insurance, but it is now available to all immigrants.
So you are saying the issue you have with Sanders is not Medicare for all or Free college education at a State school. No, the issue with him is enforcement of laws concerning immigration? Has he proposed changing the laws or opening the borders?
07-20-2019 04:46 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Medicare for all is a very reasonable solution to the question of how to economically provide all people with health care.

Tuition free college is not nearly as expensive as many assume.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/b...e-college.html

The program would surely pay for itself in higher tax revenues over the life of the college graduates.

Do you have an issue with those two policies or is there some other policy he is pushing you have an issue with?
Free education cannot guarantee basic literacy, as proven by current HS education. The cost and benefits of free education must be provided to every child on earth, since open borders accompanies these programs.


Same with Medicare for all. Open borders extends these benefits to all mankind. Any projected cost must be multiplied by a couple orders of magnitude. I can't afford health insurance, but it is now available to all immigrants.
07-19-2019 03:34 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
We don't know whether 2020 will bring these Four to an end, or whether more will be added to the "squad."

There was a time, not too long ago, when Bernie the communist socialist was a total outlier, but today in the Democratic Party he has pretty much become the norm, albeit an old-white-man, hence he now has three strikes against him. Biden also has the same three strikes against him, and soon will be history.
Medicare for all is a very reasonable solution to the question of how to economically provide all people with health care.

Tuition free college is not nearly as expensive as many assume.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/b...e-college.html

The program would surely pay for itself in higher tax revenues over the life of the college graduates.

Do you have an issue with those two policies or is there some other policy he is pushing you have an issue with?
07-18-2019 02:59 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I agree that Trump is quite smart to focus his attack on them. It splits the Democratic party and the 4 irrelevant congresspeople become the face of the party. I call them irrelevant because which of them will still be there after 2020? We will see, but if they are all voted out then they are powerless, no longer defining anything, and surely not remaking anything.
We don't know whether 2020 will bring these Four to an end, or whether more will be added to the "squad."

There was a time, not too long ago, when Bernie the communist socialist was a total outlier, but today in the Democratic Party he has pretty much become the norm, albeit an old-white-man, hence he now has three strikes against him. Biden also has the same three strikes against him, and soon will be history.
07-18-2019 02:45 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I don't think this is stupidity on their part. These 4 in the "squad" are now defining the Left. They gave us the New Green Deal. AOC's chief of staff made it clear it is not about the environment, but about remaking America. They have the endorsement of almost every candidate, the media, Pelosi, and the DNC. AOC is powerful enough to shame Cuomo and DiBlasio over the Amazon deal.

Trump is right to identify this Squad as the enemy of the American people. Sorry if you can't understand this. Coming from NYC, it should be readily apparent to you.
I agree that Trump is quite smart to focus his attack on them. It splits the Democratic party and the 4 irrelevant congresspeople become the face of the party. I call them irrelevant because which of them will still be there after 2020? We will see, but if they are all voted out then they are powerless, no longer defining anything, and surely not remaking anything.
07-18-2019 02:42 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Who cares who endorses Trump. Are you serious? How is there a connection with KKK? Have you not studied history? Every KKK official was a Democrat. Your outrage is absurd. That's like condemning me for Hitler's atrocities since my g-father came from Berlin.

I don't care if bin Laden endorsed Obama. Did Obama take his money. Did Obama meet with him. Did Obama endorse him?

Harvey Weinstein was a sleaze who endorsed every Democratic candidate. They took his money. They partied with him. They protected him. What a difference.

Jeffrey Epstein is a pedophile who also endorsed every Democratic candidate. I just read that he is prolly a high-level intelligence source, which explains why he has escaped prosecution for years. Former federal prosecutor Alexander Acosta was apparently told to stand down in order to protect the rich and powerful. Robert Muller and the FBI protected Whitey Bulger the same way.

Sorry, bro, you are making this way too personal.
Wow, I never thought this would happen but it is as though the alternate views side of the forum and the regular side have fused into one.

I'm taking this from a post from Aaron #8 my hands are against the false prophets:

It was a clever back-door ruse. "No opinions" meant only my opinion ever got heard. "No Pastor" meant I got to direct everything. "No culture" meant only my culture set group norms. "No ambition" meant only my ambition got validated.

I've mentioned before, how remarkable it was that one speaker gave hundreds and hundreds of messages in front of thousands, and at the end of every message they'd line up at the microphones to congratulate the speaker on his brilliant insights, but did anyone ever come up to the mike and say, "Hey Brother Lee - your point A(2)b doesn't seem to line up with what you taught last winter in the Ezekiel Training"? Or, "Watchman Nee said something quite different here"? No - critique never came out of the assembly, post-message. It was all, validation, validation, validation - what a revelation, that God has given to [us] His people!


Change Trump to WL and it is the same thing! No opinions. Line up at the mic to congratulate Trump. Otherwise we are "absurd" and are one with "pedophiles" and people who protected Whitey Bulger. And when we have an opinion then "we are making this way too personal".
07-18-2019 01:09 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
My post was pointing out the stupidity of these 4 democrats to allow themselves to become the face of the Democratic party. Trump is not running against Sanders, or Biden, or Harris, he is running against these 4 trivial congress people, we don't even know if any of them will be reelected.
I don't think this is stupidity on their part. These 4 in the "squad" are now defining the Left. They gave us the New Green Deal. AOC's chief of staff made it clear it is not about the environment, but about remaking America. They have the endorsement of almost every candidate, the media, Pelosi, and the DNC. AOC is powerful enough to shame Cuomo and DiBlasio over the Amazon deal.

Trump is right to identify this Squad as the enemy of the American people. Sorry if you can't understand this. Coming from NYC, it should be readily apparent to you.
07-18-2019 01:02 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Donald Trump was running for president of the US, he was publicly endorsed by the grand wizard of the KKK, David Duke. He does not have the right to feign ignorance and then wonder why he is being attacked for refusing to denounce the KKK. The KKK is a terrorist organization. If Obama had been endorsed by Osama bin Laden and then claimed to have no knowledge of who that is you would be screaming in outrage. My family was bombed by the KKK. Your comments here are extremely offensive.
Who cares who endorses Trump. Are you serious? How is there a connection with KKK? Have you not studied history? Every KKK official was a Democrat. Your outrage is absurd. That's like condemning me for Hitler's atrocities since my g-father came from Berlin.

I don't care if bin Laden endorsed Obama. Did Obama take his money. Did Obama meet with him. Did Obama endorse him?

Harvey Weinstein was a sleaze who endorsed every Democratic candidate. They took his money. They partied with him. They protected him. What a difference.

Jeffrey Epstein is a pedophile who also endorsed every Democratic candidate. I just read that he is prolly a high-level intelligence source, which explains why he has escaped prosecution for years. Former federal prosecutor Alexander Acosta was apparently told to stand down in order to protect the rich and powerful. Robert Muller and the FBI protected Whitey Bulger the same way.

Sorry, bro, you are making this way too personal.
07-18-2019 12:48 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Actually had he said that there were "good people on both sides of the confederate monuments debate" it would have been much less incendiary. That is his problem, he is so vague that people are forced to interpret what he meant. He leaves the door open for the left to put words in his mouth and then those on the right, like you have just done, are also forced to put words in his mouth. That is a major failing for "the leader of the free world".
This is exactly what he said. Go back and listen to Trump's actual words, rather than the media distortions. Actually Trump was not vague on this subject. The distortions may be, but he was not.

The reason for the discrepancy is simple. I prefer someone who speaks from the heart. You prefer polished script written by expert speech writers, vetted by political experts. Trump says what he means and means what he says. You call that offensive and a major failure.

I prefer his blunt style to the doublespeak demagoguery which tickles the ears. Obama made us endless promises, none of which he ever intended to fulfill because, of course, he was just reading off the teleprompter.
07-18-2019 11:15 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I prefer a President who is honest, has the right policies, and fights to accomplish the right things. Obviously your standard was set by Obama, the communicator extraordinaire with a teleprompter in tow.
This is the kind of wild apologetics we saw for WL and Titus Chu. I prefer an honest assessment. I don't make excuses for bullies, or insulting and abusive people. Trump is clearly a bully and an insulting and abusive person. Now if someone is honest but decides they want to vote for him because of his policies I fully support their right to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Trump said there were "good people" on both sides of the confederate monuments debate. That is a perfectly neutral comment to diffuse tension. But the media wants tension, chaos, unrest, violence.
Actually had he said that there were "good people on both sides of the confederate monuments debate" it would have been much less incendiary. That is his problem, he is so vague that people are forced to interpret what he meant. He leaves the door open for the left to put words in his mouth and then those on the right, like you have just done, are also forced to put words in his mouth. That is a major failing for "the leader of the free world".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
David Duke? If I once heard his name once, does that mean I "know him" too?
Donald Trump was running for president of the US, he was publicly endorsed by the grand wizard of the KKK, David Duke. He does not have the right to feign ignorance and then wonder why he is being attacked for refusing to denounce the KKK. The KKK is a terrorist organization. If Obama had been endorsed by Osama bin Laden and then claimed to have no knowledge of who that is you would be screaming in outrage. My family was bombed by the KKK. Your comments here are extremely offensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
But you say nothing about Obama's intimate connections with Louis Farrakhan, Nation of Islam, "I am the true Jesus," and Bill Ayers, Weather Underground, Communist revolutionary.
When it was relevant I did say plenty. The fact that I didn't mention any of it in my last post about the campaign in 2019 is irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I rest my case. You hate an honest Patriot, who speaks coarsely to his attackers, and love the "polished" communist muslam orator. OK.
You haven't even made a case that I hate Trump, nor do you have anything to base the assertion that I love Obama. But both points are completely irrelevant. My post was pointing out the stupidity of these 4 democrats to allow themselves to become the face of the Democratic party. Trump is not running against Sanders, or Biden, or Harris, he is running against these 4 trivial congress people, we don't even know if any of them will be reelected.
07-18-2019 08:41 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I prefer a President who is honest, has the right policies, and fights to accomplish the right things. Obviously your standard was set by Obama, the communicator extraordinaire with a teleprompter in tow.

Trump said there were "good people" on both sides of the confederate monuments debate. That is a perfectly neutral comment to diffuse tension. But the media wants tension, chaos, unrest, violence.

David Duke? If I once heard his name once, does that mean I "know him" too?

But you say nothing about Obama's intimate connections with Louis Farrakhan, Nation of Islam, "I am the true Jesus," and Bill Ayers, Weather Underground, Communist revolutionary.

I rest my case. You hate an honest Patriot, who speaks coarsely to his attackers, and love the "polished" communist muslam orator. OK.
All just a pile of Roger Ailes bunkum.
07-18-2019 05:50 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Are you referring to AOC saying the detention camps are "concentration camps". I have called her an idiot and also a hypocrite for saying this and then voting against more money. Or are you referring to the big stink that arose from him claiming he didn't know David Duke? Either a lie or indicative of him being unbelievably naive. Or is this a response to his "good people on both sides"? I consider this a very, very clumsy comment on his part. A murderous jerk had just driven his car into a crowd of people. Sorry, if you want to run for President you have to have certain skills, like how to respond to a PR nightmare.
I prefer a President who is honest, has the right policies, and fights to accomplish the right things. Obviously your standard was set by Obama, the communicator extraordinaire with a teleprompter in tow.

Trump said there were "good people" on both sides of the confederate monuments debate. That is a perfectly neutral comment to diffuse tension. But the media wants tension, chaos, unrest, violence.

David Duke? If I once heard his name once, does that mean I "know him" too?

But you say nothing about Obama's intimate connections with Louis Farrakhan, Nation of Islam, "I am the true Jesus," and Bill Ayers, Weather Underground, Communist revolutionary.

I rest my case. You hate an honest Patriot, who speaks coarsely to his attackers, and love the "polished" communist muslam orator. OK.
07-18-2019 05:36 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I have said repeatedly I supported the Mueller investigation, and if it concludes that these accusations are not based in verifiable facts, then I support that as well.
I just read that Muller took his cell phone into the oval office with Rosenstein the day before he was appointed Special Prosecutor.

He left it there to record Trump and his response when they left. Mueller's entire investigation was predicated on illegal surveillance. He was a prosecutor and a witness in the same case. Standard recusal protocol.

But you supported it. I have a problem with that. Especially after all we have learned.
07-18-2019 04:11 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Your "wisdom" is only aimed in one direction.

Wedge issues? Accusing Trump of being a Russian agent. Accusing Trump of obstructing Justice?
I have said repeatedly I supported the Mueller investigation, and if it concludes that these accusations are not based in verifiable facts, then I support that as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Accusing Trump of being a Nazi?
Are you referring to AOC saying the detention camps are "concentration camps". I have called her an idiot and also a hypocrite for saying this and then voting against more money. Or are you referring to the big stink that arose from him claiming he didn't know David Duke? Either a lie or indicative of him being unbelievably naive. Or is this a response to his "good people on both sides"? I consider this a very, very clumsy comment on his part. A murderous jerk had just driven his car into a crowd of people. Sorry, if you want to run for President you have to have certain skills, like how to respond to a PR nightmare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Accusing Trump of being an anti-semite? This list goes on for 3 years.
Oh, the list goes on a lot longer than 3 years, don't kid yourself. The guy has insulted anyone and everyone throughout his life. You have to expect that what goes around comes around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Why don't you use your wisdom to stop the Left of their endless false accusations?
I am, my point is to stop being played.

Do you really think playing the race card is going to be an effective strategy to beating Trump in 2020? Do you really think having these 4 democrats acting as the face of the party is going to help them win a national election? All of their false accusations just lead to entrenching Trump's base and seriously frightening the swing voters.
07-17-2019 09:23 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Glad to see we are all wiser than we were a couple years ago, not going to let wedge issues and much ado over nothing divide us. Nope, older and wiser, that is who we are.
Your "wisdom" is only aimed in one direction.

Wedge issues? Accusing Trump of being a Russian agent. Accusing Trump of obstructing Justice? Accusing Trump of being a Nazi? Accusing Trump of being an anti-semite? This list goes on for 3 years.

Why don't you use your wisdom to stop the Left of their endless false accusations?
07-17-2019 07:16 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Well at least "Lock her up" has been replace with "Send her back." Lock her up was worn out and outdated long ago.

But that reveals how ignorant his cult followers are. Cuz all the 4 horsewomen of color are citizens (Omar longer than Melania - send her back to her dung hole communist country!). So where is back? Ocasio is from NY, same as Trump.

All this reveals that not only are his cult followers ignorant, but so is their personality cult leader.
07-17-2019 01:44 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Glad to see we are all wiser than we were a couple years ago, not going to let wedge issues and much ado over nothing divide us. Nope, older and wiser, that is who we are.
07-17-2019 11:27 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

07-17-2019 11:23 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW View Post
I'm looking for someone who will at least admit that the deficit spending has to stop. I might consider voting for someone with the ideals of that Democratic squad if they would at least attempt to do it without continuing the race toward bankruptcy. Of course they will not. And the Republicans (of which I am still tentatively a part) seem to be doing no better. Just spending too much on the kinds of things that right-wing people would like to have.
Excuse me ... hmmm ... have you been to Venezuela lately?

Until Hugo Chavez and folks like the "Squad" took over, Venezuela was the jewel of Central and South America.

Their message is simple -- Capitalism is evil because of income inequality.

They are right about one thing -- Capitalism has rich folks.

What they don't tell you is that Capitalism's "Poor" are still far richer than Socialism's "Rich."

Poor people in the USA can still own iPhones, designer shoes, guns, cars, and eat fast food.

Rich people in socialist countries spend all day in line to get a loaf of stale bread.

But you "might consider voting for someone with the ideals of that Democratic squad."

Get to know Beto!
07-17-2019 11:09 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

These are the ideas Trump challenged.

Perhaps you just missed them.



07-17-2019 10:13 AM
OBW
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Since when did the white Euro-American man abrogate his responsibility to challenge the stupid ideas of Democratic Socialist politicians, these so-called "women of color?"

This is what politics and the media have made America today . . .
But he really didn't challenge their ideas. He just demeaned them personally. Implied that they were not really from here and told them to "go back."

Well, I don't think any of us are "from here." I admit to having something like 1/16th Cherokee, but that hardly counts. More like a bunch of English, Scottish, Irish, and German.

And how do you conclude that the "responsibility" to challenge the ideas of anyone was exercised in our Twitter-in-Chief's nasty outburst? I read nothing in it explaining what was wrong with their positions. Only a bunch of ad hominems.

I will be the first to say that I am no fan of their positions. But I am not much of a fan of Trump's either. At this point, there are no conservatives. Both sides are happy to spend our great-grandchildren's life savings on a better meal today. The only difference is what kind of meal to buy. A right-wing meal or a left-wing meal. Spending deficits are neither increased by the Democrats nor reduced by the Republicans. They both spend beyond today's budget on things that will not last to the end of the year. They only banter about what to borrow and spend on.

I'm looking for someone who will at least admit that the deficit spending has to stop. I might consider voting for someone with the ideals of that Democratic squad if they would at least attempt to do it without continuing the race toward bankruptcy. Of course they will not. And the Republicans (of which I am still tentatively a part) seem to be doing no better. Just spending too much on the kinds of things that right-wing people would like to have.

Someone (a conservative) has suggest that in 10 years the Republican party will look back to this time and say "what the #3|| were we thinking?!?!?"
07-17-2019 09:10 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Yeah, but Trump isn't divisive when he drags out the four horsewomen of the apocalypse against four congresswomen of color.
Since when did the white Euro-American man abrogate his responsibility to challenge the stupid ideas of Democratic Socialist politicians, these so-called "women of color?"

This is what politics and the media have made America today . . .

07-17-2019 07:27 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Not sure I would agree, but Obama definitely was the most racist president ever. He made a person's color, not the content of their character, the most important feature about them.

20 Reasons Why Obama Was the Most Divisive President In History


Obama 'most racist president' in American history
Yeah, but Trump isn't divisive when he drags out the four horsewomen of the apocalypse against four congresswomen of color.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...51068431294464
07-16-2019 01:35 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Only racists are fine with a racist president.
Not sure I would agree, but Obama definitely was the most racist president ever. He made a person's color, not the content of their character, the most important feature about them.

20 Reasons Why Obama Was the Most Divisive President In History


Obama 'most racist president' in American history
07-16-2019 01:06 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Only racists are fine with a racist president.
07-08-2019 08:15 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Fake news abounded in the last election, often propagated on these social media sites like Facebook. This in turn has riled up the populace creating a much bigger divide than would otherwise exist. Lefties accusing conservatives of being fascists. Conservatives accusing lefties of being communists.

I think Russia had two objectives -- foment discontent, and attack Hillary Clinton.
It makes no sense that Russia would attack either Bill or Hilary Clinton.

Secretary Hilary spearheaded (remember the "reset" button) the Uranium One transfer of 20% of our Uranium reserves to Russia. The entire Deep State was willing to commit multiple crimes in order to protect Hilary and get her elected.

Your conjecture is not supported by any facts, other than Putin himself wanted to see Trump elected because he is a "businessman" -- standard KGB dissembling.
07-08-2019 07:14 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Other than being fooled by all the pre-election polls, how was the US suckered in the last election?

Or are you referring to the midterms, when pending Collusion Indictments from the Mueller investigation skewed the results? Real election tampering I might add!
Fake news abounded in the last election, often propagated on these social media sites like Facebook. This in turn has riled up the populace creating a much bigger divide than would otherwise exist. Lefties accusing conservatives of being fascists. Conservatives accusing lefties of being communists.

I think Russia had two objectives -- foment discontent, and attack Hillary Clinton.
07-08-2019 03:39 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
The US was suckered in the last election, are we really incapable of learning from that?
Other than being fooled by all the pre-election polls, how was the US suckered in the last election?

Or are you referring to the midterms, when pending Collusion Indictments from the Mueller investigation skewed the results? Real election tampering I might add!
07-07-2019 10:31 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
News Flash !!!!
24 candidates are a sure sign of 15+ bogus candidates. To reduce the unnecessary aggravation that these bogus candidates are designed to induce can we all agree to not discuss the bogus ones. Any candidate that is not getting at least 10% on a Democratic poll are clearly not on a path that leads to nomination.

The US was suckered in the last election, are we really incapable of learning from that?
Surprise, surprise -- Trump reaches career-high approval, yet faces a range of re-election risks: Poll

As the democratic party trots out 24 looney candidates proposing $1,000 a month per person, opening wide the border, green new deal, reparations, or racist policies designed to help blacks and no one else, guess what, Trump's approval rating goes up.
07-06-2019 04:56 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I seem to remember a song, "I fought the law, and the law won."
I recall when some felt their widows were being neglected in the daily ministration the church rectified that.
07-06-2019 04:49 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Yes. The correlation between spending money and the dumbing down is because greedy corporations have attached themselves to the school system like blood sucking leeches. Yes it is designed to produce slaves.

It is time for those of us who are aware of this to do something about it.
I seem to remember a song, "I fought the law, and the law won."
07-06-2019 01:54 PM
Weighingin
Re: Politics and the Churc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
By voting for the Democrats they will get a socialist/communist, whether they realize it or not. What I find to be really stupid is all the wealthy liberals -- academia, sports and hollywood stars, coastline elites, silicon valley, etc. -- promoting progressive ideology like income equality. Don't they realize that means they lose everything? What do you think happened to Cuba. Venezuela, Ussr amd her satellites, etc?

With capitalism, we have rich and poor, and everything in between. With socialism, there is only poor -- true income equality! They will look back and long for the good old days of Trumpism.
As I read the comments here, a thought occurred to me that perhaps the wealthy libs see socialism as inevitable. They are hoping to make a deal to keep their riches when the socs come into power. So they react when there's a complaint from lefties. I believe we're aware of these examples:
1. Nike withdrew shoes because CP said the flag on them represents oppressive times.
2.Laura Ingraham makes fun of that anti-gun student. Companies withdraw their sponsorship.

Apparently, they feel they will lose a lot of customers which affect their bottom line.
07-06-2019 10:47 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Have you read the "dumbing down of America?" The quality of our educational system is inversely proportional to the amount of money we spend.

Read some of those who say the same thing, like Thomas Sowell or D'Nish D'Sousa. Our educational system is working exactly as planned. It is designed to produce slaves. Like I said, working as planned.

Poland is doing the right things, which includes rejecting the EU leftist policies.
Yes. The correlation between spending money and the dumbing down is because greedy corporations have attached themselves to the school system like blood sucking leeches. Yes it is designed to produce slaves.

It is time for those of us who are aware of this to do something about it.
07-06-2019 10:44 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
She gave herself 20 likes.
07-06-2019 09:57 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
OK, so you didn't read the thread on education gap, got it.

Poland has all of the problems that our inner cities have and yet they have completely turned their schools around from worst to the first tier. They did that without paying more money than we pay.

There is no deceptive utopian promise, simply follow in the steps of those who have already paved the way.

Since you don't like the term equality, lets use your term of freedom. Putting 15 million kids in public school into a system that is programmed into creating working drones with absolutely no prospect to being anything more than a person who works at the minimum wage doing the jobs no one else wants, that is not freedom, that is slavery.
Have you read the "dumbing down of America?" The quality of our educational system is inversely proportional to the amount of money we spend.

Read some of those who say the same thing, like Thomas Sowell or D'Nish D'Sousa. Our educational system is working exactly as planned. It is designed to produce slaves. Like I said, working as planned.

Poland is doing the right things, which includes rejecting the EU leftist policies.
07-06-2019 09:47 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Best of Mini AOC final video
07-06-2019 09:42 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
We will never have equality. That is science fiction. Look at children from the same family. They don't have equality, yet they had the same parents, same home, same opportunities, same education, yet often have vastly different outcomes. " Equality" is the opium of the Left. And the only way so-called "equality" can occur is in a totalitarian regime, where the state decides your life, and those who don't like it get sent to Siberia or one of Kim's prison cities. These are the "lucky ones" who get to live.

What we should strive for is freedom -- life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Look at Dr. Ben Carson. He rose from the ghetto to pioneer neuro-surgery. So-called "equality" would have suppressed him.

Busing and affirmative opportunity were supposed to solve this problem in America. It may have opened doors for some, but the problems got worse. The real problem is broken homes and broken souls. Their kids will nearly always be disadvantaged. Inner city schools fail because inner city homes have failed.

AOC and her ilk will always deceive the masses with their utopian promises. Their tactics just enhance their own gains. Does AOC practice what she preaches? Of course not. Did Al Gore? Obama? Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? This list is endless. All of them profiting off the plight of others.

What we really need is Jesus. On a personal level. On a family level.
OK, so you didn't read the thread on education gap, got it.

Poland has all of the problems that our inner cities have and yet they have completely turned their schools around from worst to the first tier. They did that without paying more money than we pay.

There is no deceptive utopian promise, simply follow in the steps of those who have already paved the way.

Since you don't like the term equality, lets use your term of freedom. Putting 15 million kids in public school into a system that is programmed into creating working drones with absolutely no prospect to being anything more than a person who works at the minimum wage doing the jobs no one else wants, that is not freedom, that is slavery.
07-06-2019 07:43 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
If you look at the thread on the education gap we don't have "equality". We have a system designed for a class system. 30 years ago you might be able to argue that it was done through ignorance. Not anymore. The system is clearly designed to take the money earmarked to educate kids and instead build up our computer industry. The result is to have a nice looking school that is populated and administered by the poorly educated. That is only true of the inner city, the suburbs and private schools don't get away with that. They are judged by results.

But the inner city has immigrant parents and parents who never went to college and single parent mothers and basically just a whole lot of parents intimidated by school and afraid to respond or lacking the fundamental understanding to respond. So we have parents who will make a big complaint about a kid failing, but don't care that the kids are being given an elementary school education.

So these kids go through this system and then discover they can't go to college, they can't get a job that pays a living wage, and so inherently they know something is wrong, just don't know what it is. Now either those of us who do know what the problem is will solve it, or else these uneducated masses will become the majority and elect AOC.
We will never have equality. That is science fiction. Look at children from the same family. They don't have equality, yet they had the same parents, same home, same opportunities, same education, yet often have vastly different outcomes. " Equality" is the opium of the Left. And the only way so-called "equality" can occur is in a totalitarian regime, where the state decides your life, and those who don't like it get sent to Siberia or one of Kim's prison cities. These are the "lucky ones" who get to live.

What we should strive for is freedom -- life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Look at Dr. Ben Carson. He rose from the ghetto to pioneer neuro-surgery. So-called "equality" would have suppressed him.

Busing and affirmative opportunity were supposed to solve this problem in America. It may have opened doors for some, but the problems got worse. The real problem is broken homes and broken souls. Their kids will nearly always be disadvantaged. Inner city schools fail because inner city homes have failed.

AOC and her ilk will always deceive the masses with their utopian promises. Their tactics just enhance their own gains. Does AOC practice what she preaches? Of course not. Did Al Gore? Obama? Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? This list is endless. All of them profiting off the plight of others.

What we really need is Jesus. On a personal level. On a family level.
07-06-2019 06:23 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
By voting for the Democrats they will get a socialist/communist, whether they realize it or not. What I find to be really stupid is all the wealthy liberals -- academia, sports and hollywood stars, coastline elites, silicon valley, etc. -- promoting progressive ideology like income equality. Don't they realize that means they lose everything? What do you think happened to Cuba. Venezuela, Ussr amd her satellites, etc?

With capitalism, we have rich and poor, and everything in between. With socialism, there is only poor -- true income equality! They will look back and long for the good old days of Trumpism.
If you look at the thread on the education gap we don't have "equality". We have a system designed for a class system. 30 years ago you might be able to argue that it was done through ignorance. Not anymore. The system is clearly designed to take the money earmarked to educate kids and instead build up our computer industry. The result is to have a nice looking school that is populated and administered by the poorly educated. That is only true of the inner city, the suburbs and private schools don't get away with that. They are judged by results.

But the inner city has immigrant parents and parents who never went to college and single parent mothers and basically just a whole lot of parents intimidated by school and afraid to respond or lacking the fundamental understanding to respond. So we have parents who will make a big complaint about a kid failing, but don't care that the kids are being given an elementary school education.

So these kids go through this system and then discover they can't go to college, they can't get a job that pays a living wage, and so inherently they know something is wrong, just don't know what it is. Now either those of us who do know what the problem is will solve it, or else these uneducated masses will become the majority and elect AOC.
07-06-2019 06:10 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
By voting for the Democrats they will get a socialist/communist, whether they realize it or not. What I find to be really stupid is all the wealthy liberals -- academia, sports and hollywood stars, coastline elites, silicon valley, etc. -- promoting progressive ideology like income equality. Don't they realize that means they lose everything? What do you think happened to Cuba. Venezuela, Ussr amd her satellites, etc?

With capitalism, we have rich and poor, and everything in between. With socialism, there is only poor -- true income equality! They will look back and long for the good old days of Trumpism.
Yeah, just look at Canada and Britain, and all the other very happy democratic socialistic nations.
07-05-2019 08:15 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
In the last election the Russians and others manipulated the naive to divide the US against each other. Trying to portray "All Democrats are crazy lefty's" is just more of the same. Are we really so naive to fall for the same thing again?
By voting for the Democrats they will get a socialist/communist, whether they realize it or not. What I find to be really stupid is all the wealthy liberals -- academia, sports and hollywood stars, coastline elites, silicon valley, etc. -- promoting progressive ideology like income equality. Don't they realize that means they lose everything? What do you think happened to Cuba. Venezuela, Ussr amd her satellites, etc?

With capitalism, we have rich and poor, and everything in between. With socialism, there is only poor -- true income equality! They will look back and long for the good old days of Trumpism.
07-05-2019 06:56 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I'm thinking about registering Democrat so I can vote for her.
But aren't the democrats to blame for Trump saying that the Continental Army grounded the airports back during the Revolution?
07-05-2019 06:09 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
All Democrats are crazy Lefty's, even creepy Uncle Joe. Did you see? He did it again.

But with Marianne I feel the love. Let's call her Miracle Marianne. They gave Trump no chance in the last election, so don't write her out. They said Biden was a shoe-in for this election, and he is fading fast.

Marianne is honest and speaks from the heart, a couple of traits sorely lacking with the other 2 dozen candidates, and btw Trump's strongest feature. I'm thinking about registering Democrat so I can vote for her.
In the last election the Russians and others manipulated the naive to divide the US against each other. Trying to portray "All Democrats are crazy lefty's" is just more of the same. Are we really so naive to fall for the same thing again?
07-05-2019 03:39 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
I didn't see any miracles. So I don't think much of the corny Course in Miracles ... nor this loony New Ager Marianne.

I'm not sure if you really like her, or if you're just being hyperbolic. She's a crazy lefty.
All Democrats are crazy Lefty's, even creepy Uncle Joe. Did you see? He did it again.

But with Marianne I feel the love. Let's call her Miracle Marianne. They gave Trump no chance in the last election, so don't write her out. They said Biden was a shoe-in for this election, and he is fading fast.

Marianne is honest and speaks from the heart, a couple of traits sorely lacking with the other 2 dozen candidates, and btw Trump's strongest feature. I'm thinking about registering Democrat so I can vote for her.
07-05-2019 01:46 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I like her. I was feeling the love. Marianne for Prez.

I'm sure bro. awareness will vote for her too!
Not if she's guided by the Course in Miracles, which she claims.

In Ft. Lauderdale I was friends with a group dedicated to the Course in Miracles. They hounded me to get into it. I read the first volume. But I recognized that they were acting like Bonobo monkeys, including freely jumping around into adultery and fornication between each other.

But since the Course emphasizes forgiveness, I guess they were putting it into practice, by forgiving each other. Haha

I didn't see any miracles. So I don't think much of the corny Course in Miracles ... nor this loony New Ager Marianne.

I'm not sure if you really like her, or if you're just being hyperbolic. She's a crazy lefty.
07-05-2019 12:57 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
News Flash !!!!

Marianne Williamson's White House bid is inspired by a new-age, mystical 'scripture' written by a Manhattan doctor in the 1960s who thought she was channeling revelations from Jesus


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ical-text.html
I like her. I was feeling the love. Marianne for Prez.

I'm sure bro. awareness will vote for her too!
07-05-2019 11:57 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
News Flash !!!!

Marianne Williamson's White House bid is inspired by a new-age, mystical 'scripture' written by a Manhattan doctor in the 1960s who thought she was channeling revelations from Jesus


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ical-text.html
News Flash !!!!
24 candidates are a sure sign of 15+ bogus candidates. To reduce the unnecessary aggravation that these bogus candidates are designed to induce can we all agree to not discuss the bogus ones. Any candidate that is not getting at least 10% on a Democratic poll are clearly not on a path that leads to nomination.

The US was suckered in the last election, are we really incapable of learning from that?
07-05-2019 11:44 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

News Flash !!!!

Marianne Williamson's White House bid is inspired by a new-age, mystical 'scripture' written by a Manhattan doctor in the 1960s who thought she was channeling revelations from Jesus


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ical-text.html
07-05-2019 11:42 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Who does AOC represent? The growing progressive wing of the Democratic Party. What used to be a lone voice named Bernie Sanders has grown fast, fueled by Trump hate, manufactured racism, income inequality, white guilt, and a false belief in the benefits of socialism/communism.

ZNP, she is not an idiot. She represents the future. Her popularity is growing. Many believe what she says, and hang on her every word. One day her demagoguery will be leading the Party. Forget about any notions of honesty or integrity, she is the face and voice of the future. Pelosi is hanging on with her finger nails.

Obviously you don't agree with her, but you don't belong to her generation.

Long-time Democrats, asleep at the remote, believing ancient maxims like "the party of the working man," are complicit. All we need is the economic collapse at the end of this credit super-cycle, and totalitarianism comes home.
Let's assume you are correct. This would be a result of the majority of Americans "hanging on her every word". This is the strongest argument I can imagine for treating the education gap seriously.
07-05-2019 10:08 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Politics
AOC Releases Plan to Address Immigration Crisis

https://www.yahoo.com/news/aoc-relea...221711165.html

This is why I say she is an idiot.

Her plan:

1. Reinstate humanitarian aid -- So it is too expensive to build a wall, but you have unlimited funds for humanitarian aid?

2. Refugee crisis is tied to climate change -- oh that is great. So before we can address thousands of refugees coming across the border the last few months we need to first solve global climate change?

3. Repeal the laws criminalizing illegal entry into the US -- does she work for the cartels? ISIS? who does she represent? I bet Texas, New Mexico and California are going to love someone from NY telling them this.

4. Finally, lets get a jobs creation program going. Wow, people in NY are going to love this. You put the kibosh on the local jobs creation program in your district but now you want to get huge tax funds to create jobs for immigrants.
Who does AOC represent? The growing progressive wing of the Democratic Party. What used to be a lone voice named Bernie Sanders has grown fast, fueled by Trump hate, manufactured racism, income inequality, white guilt, and a false belief in the benefits of socialism/communism.

ZNP, she is not an idiot. She represents the future. Her popularity is growing. Many believe what she says, and hang on her every word. One day her demagoguery will be leading the Party. Forget about any notions of honesty or integrity, she is the face and voice of the future. Pelosi is hanging on with her finger nails.

Obviously you don't agree with her, but you don't belong to her generation.

Long-time Democrats, asleep at the remote, believing ancient maxims like "the party of the working man," are complicit. All we need is the economic collapse at the end of this credit super-cycle, and totalitarianism comes home.
07-05-2019 08:49 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Politics
AOC Releases Plan to Address Immigration Crisis

https://www.yahoo.com/news/aoc-relea...221711165.html

This is why I say she is an idiot.

Her plan:

1. Reinstate humanitarian aid -- So it is too expensive to build a wall, but you have unlimited funds for humanitarian aid?

2. Refugee crisis is tied to climate change -- oh that is great. So before we can address thousands of refugees coming across the border the last few months we need to first solve global climate change?

3. Repeal the laws criminalizing illegal entry into the US -- does she work for the cartels? ISIS? who does she represent? I bet Texas, New Mexico and California are going to love someone from NY telling them this.

4. Finally, lets get a jobs creation program going. Wow, people in NY are going to love this. You put the kibosh on the local jobs creation program in your district but now you want to get huge tax funds to create jobs for immigrants.
07-04-2019 06:47 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
To varying degrees, they all support all of these policies. Biden, the so-called moderate, has given up on Obama era policies to "catch up with the pack" or be shamed into oblivion. Note how he flip-flopped a few times over the Hyde Amend. The Twitter Mob runs the Democratic Party.
None of those "issues" is going anywhere. It is nothing but hot air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
4 years ago the Dems mocked the Republicans for having 17 candidates. So how could that be an issue?
I suspect that the republicans are supporting some of the Democratic candidates to help bloody the frontrunners. Even the chairman of the Democratic committee said the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
The cry for reparations is growing as each candidate vies for the beloved Al Sharpton endorsement.
Because they are fools. Nothing scares the middle class more than idiotic suggestions like that. Already there is serious push back on having quotas for colleges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
AOC is simply the voice of the Left. Some say she is running the Party. She is the big city pretty face that the Left loves. If you see her as being a Democratic anomaly, then you are missing the message. Look at her recent visit to the border. She lies, gets away with smearing border agents, fabricates stories, and distorts the situation. But she gets a free pass from the media. She is hardly a "crack pot." She is the ambassador for the deceptive Media/Democrats/Leftists. How is she any different from those who lied about and smeared Trump as a Russian agent for 2 years and running. Then when the truth emerges, they have no ears to hear.
Yes, compared to Pelosi, Clinton, and Mitch she is definitely a pretty face. Other than that she has been carried away with her fame confusing being a media darling with being a representative of the people. I'll tell you her approval in NY has taken a hit. I doubt she'll be reelected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Did you hear about all the death threats aimed at that 8 year old "Mini AOC" from YouTube? Lie and mock Trump OK, but mock AOC and we will dox you, and threaten your family.
Nope, didn't hear.
07-04-2019 05:48 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Which of the 4 (Biden, Harris, Warren or Sanders) supports any of these things?
To varying degrees, they all support all of these policies. Biden, the so-called moderate, has given up on Obama era policies to "catch up with the pack" or be shamed into oblivion. Note how he flip-flopped a few times over the Hyde Amend. The Twitter Mob runs the Democratic Party.

Quote:
Did it ever occur to you that having 24 people running for the Democratic nomination is not something the Democrats want but rather something the Republicans want? Having someone argue for reparations is something the Republicans will support knowing it will scare a large amount of the population to vote for the Republican. AOC is the best thing that could happen for Trump. Likewise some of the crack pots running for office -- clearly scaring people into voting for Trump.
4 years ago the Dems mocked the Republicans for having 17 candidates. So how could that be an issue?

The cry for reparations is growing as each candidate vies for the beloved Al Sharpton endorsement.

AOC is simply the voice of the Left. Some say she is running the Party. She is the big city pretty face that the Left loves. If you see her as being a Democratic anomaly, then you are missing the message. Look at her recent visit to the border. She lies, gets away with smearing border agents, fabricates stories, and distorts the situation. But she gets a free pass from the media. She is hardly a "crack pot." She is the ambassador for the deceptive Media/Democrats/Leftists. How is she any different from those who lied about and smeared Trump as a Russian agent for 2 years and running. Then when the truth emerges, they have no ears to hear.

Did you hear about all the death threats aimed at that 8 year old "Mini AOC" from YouTube? Lie and mock Trump OK, but mock AOC and we will dox you, and threaten your family.
07-04-2019 11:54 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
So you draw the line when it comes to guaranteed income, new green deal, open borders, abolishing ICE/CBP, releasing half the prisoners, eliminating income inequality, reparations for blacks, ending all fossil fuels, free health care for illegal aliens but not white people, etc.

Bernie is not a "Hard core socialist" but a dyed in the wool commie. Check his history. Others are fast becoming wannabee clones.
Which of the 4 (Biden, Harris, Warren or Sanders) supports any of these things?

Did it ever occur to you that having 24 people running for the Democratic nomination is not something the Democrats want but rather something the Republicans want? Having someone argue for reparations is something the Republicans will support knowing it will scare a large amount of the population to vote for the Republican. AOC is the best thing that could happen for Trump. Likewise some of the crack pots running for office -- clearly scaring people into voting for Trump.
07-04-2019 11:04 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
"Hard core socialist" the only one campaigning would be Bernie Sanders (can we restrict our discussion to the candidates getting double digits in the polls). I am all for his Medicare for all and free college tuition.
So you draw the line when it comes to guaranteed income, new green deal, open borders, abolishing ICE/CBP, releasing half the prisoners, eliminating income inequality, reparations for blacks, ending all fossil fuels, free health care for illegal aliens but not white people, etc.

Bernie is not a "Hard core socialist" but a dyed in the wool commie. Check his history. Others are fast becoming wannabee clones.
07-04-2019 10:36 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
On top of all that is the "woke" LEFT constantly looking for their next take down on TwitterVerse.

If the economy continues its steady course, Trump will win. If the economy crashes like 2008, we will get a hard-core socialist with House and Senate Dems. This time there will not be enough Quantitative Easement to save the world.
"Hard core socialist" the only one campaigning would be Bernie Sanders (can we restrict our discussion to the candidates getting double digits in the polls). I am all for his Medicare for all and free college tuition.

High school was made free because we realized no one could get a job without it. Sending kids to high school has paid for itself many times over in higher tax revenue. Well, if you needed a HS education in the 50s today you need a college education. We have fallen 2-3 years behind the rest of the world in education and are now 40th in the world. Free college would be an overnight way to level the playing field.
07-04-2019 09:00 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
The more you know about them the less you like them. Biden's name recognition was high, he scored very well on early polls, but misstep after misstep and some polls have him 4th already.

Bernie was the flavor du jour last election, now he's third. Why? People know him better.

Kamala Harris has meteoric rise, but as we get to know her will that be a meteoric fall?

Warren looked stellar last election, but after learning of her bogus claim of being a native american and using that to get into Harvard, I have soured on her. I suspect many others will sour on her as well if she is put under intense scrutiny.
On top of all that is the "woke" LEFT constantly looking for their next take down on TwitterVerse.

If the economy continues its steady course, Trump will win. If the economy crashes like 2008, we will get a hard-core socialist with House and Senate Dems. This time there will not be enough Quantitative Easement to save the world.
07-04-2019 08:48 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
What goes around comes around.

Biden attacked Trump as a racist, white supremacist.

Kamala Harris attacked Biden, perhaps landing a death blow, for not supporting busing policies and working with Southern Democrats who supported segregation laws.

Now we learn that Kamala Harris G-Grandpa was a serious slave owner.

Oh the hypocrisy!
The more you know about them the less you like them. Biden's name recognition was high, he scored very well on early polls, but misstep after misstep and some polls have him 4th already.

Bernie was the flavor du jour last election, now he's third. Why? People know him better.

Kamala Harris has meteoric rise, but as we get to know her will that be a meteoric fall?

Warren looked stellar last election, but after learning of her bogus claim of being a native american and using that to get into Harvard, I have soured on her. I suspect many others will sour on her as well if she is put under intense scrutiny.
07-03-2019 03:39 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

What goes around comes around.

Biden attacked Trump as a racist, white supremacist.

Kamala Harris attacked Biden, perhaps landing a death blow, for not supporting busing policies and working with Southern Democrats who supported segregation laws.

Now we learn that Kamala Harris G-Grandpa was a serious slave owner.

Oh the hypocrisy!
07-03-2019 03:05 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
The Democratic Party which gave us slavery, resisted emancipation, protect the slaughter of the unborn, the KKK, the extermination of the innocent unborn, took the Bible out of schools, promoting trans-non-binary genders, etc. wants to have an "appearance of godliness?"

Preacher Buttigige is not working for them? Their own constituents are so easily fooled, they must think the same of all Christians. Hey, look folks, Trump may not be a Putin Puppet, but he's still a sinner!
AOC is calling the camps on the Mexican border "concentration camps" and likening them to the death camps created by Hitler. Why? Because they are overcrowded and not sufficiently stocked and staffed.

So for 2 years we see the Democrats kick and scream that there is no need for any additional funds for the border, and then they swing from that position to they are overcrowded concentration camps. This is not governing.

We are now listening to 16+ wannabe candidates and their key policies. Has any of them discussed our education system in this country? We are now 40th in a comparison of other school systems. How is anyone going to take this country seriously when we are 40th? We have learned from the countries who are in the top 5 what works. Finland and Poland have both risen to the top by doing one thing, requiring very high standards for anyone wishing to be a teacher. In order to get these teachers they have to pay more in salaries, but they don't pay more per kid than we do in the US. Instead we pay all our money for computers, smart boards and other electronic gadgets.

No, the big issue for the Democrats is to complain about the border without any solution recommended. They also make a lot of noise about climate change again without a solution. If the US made a major push for Fusion similar to our space program or effort to build the highways, then that could be seen as a solution. But no, the only ones willing to make suggestions are recommending firing 80,000 people and changing the lightbulbs.
07-03-2019 10:33 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
2020 Dems appeal to an 'imaginary god created in their own minds,' Robert Jeffress says

"it is a “godless party” looking to an “imaginary God.”"

“But the truth is that when you talk about righteousness and unrighteousness. It is becoming clearer and clearer that the Democrat Party has truly become a godless party. It is a godless party.”

“You have seen lately, in fact even this week, that the Democrats are realizing that they have a God problem in connecting with voters,” he continued. “They don’t want to completely write-off faith voters, so they have hired this week a faith outreach director.”

Speaking about Harkins, Jeffress called him a “Trump-hating pastor” that comes from a “liberal seminary that is filled with liberal professors who couldn’t find God if their life depended on it.”
The Democratic Party which gave us slavery, resisted emancipation, protect the slaughter of the unborn, the KKK, the extermination of the innocent unborn, took the Bible out of schools, promoting trans-non-binary genders, etc. wants to have an "appearance of godliness?"

Preacher Buttigige is not working for them? Their own constituents are so easily fooled, they must think the same of all Christians. Hey, look folks, Trump may not be a Putin Puppet, but he's still a sinner!
07-03-2019 09:46 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

2020 Dems appeal to an 'imaginary god created in their own minds,' Robert Jeffress says

"it is a “godless party” looking to an “imaginary God.”"

“But the truth is that when you talk about righteousness and unrighteousness. It is becoming clearer and clearer that the Democrat Party has truly become a godless party. It is a godless party.”

“You have seen lately, in fact even this week, that the Democrats are realizing that they have a God problem in connecting with voters,” he continued. “They don’t want to completely write-off faith voters, so they have hired this week a faith outreach director.”

Speaking about Harkins, Jeffress called him a “Trump-hating pastor” that comes from a “liberal seminary that is filled with liberal professors who couldn’t find God if their life depended on it.”


https://www.christianpost.com/news/2...ress-says.html
07-02-2019 07:59 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Great article exposing untold lies about Palestine.

The Myth and Fraud That There Ever Was an Arab Country or People Called ‘Palestine’

(Part One of Two)
The real myth is that there never was a Palestine :

Joel 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;
06-25-2019 03:21 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Great article exposing untold lies about Palestine.

The Myth and Fraud That There Ever Was an Arab Country or People Called ‘Palestine’

(Part One of Two)
06-23-2019 07:19 PM
awareness
Re: Death penalty

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I figured out a Christian way to resolve the entire death penalty debate. Every single person convicted of a crime that gets a life sentence should be given the option to choose the death penalty. That would be consistent with the golden rule -- do unto others as you would have them do to you. I would want the option.

If I was ever convicted of a crime falsely and given life imprisonment I would definitely choose the death penalty. Once you are on death row you are given many more appeals, free legal help and generally scientists and others will assist in your defense pro bono as well. It would give you the best chance to exonerate yourself.
From a Christian Biblical literalistic point of view, if the death penalty was good enough for Jesus it's good enough for anybody.
06-23-2019 01:11 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Death penalty

I figured out a Christian way to resolve the entire death penalty debate. Every single person convicted of a crime that gets a life sentence should be given the option to choose the death penalty. That would be consistent with the golden rule -- do unto others as you would have them do to you. I would want the option.

If I was ever convicted of a crime falsely and given life imprisonment I would definitely choose the death penalty. Once you are on death row you are given many more appeals, free legal help and generally scientists and others will assist in your defense pro bono as well. It would give you the best chance to exonerate yourself.
06-21-2019 01:05 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Keith Raniere Nxivm trial: Why it's so hard to stop a cult

There is a trial in NY for a sex cult. One of the key pillars holding this thing up is legal abortions. Women enslaved and abused were also required to get abortions. Clearly abortion should not be "no questions asked". Anyone who has pushed that idea needs to feel responsibility for enabling this kind of abuse.
Why women would fall for Raniere to the point of being branded with a wood burning tool.

With cults of all kinds out there, it makes me very concerned for the young ones growing up in this world today. Specially those growing up in cults, like the local church.

It's no surprise to me that Raniere forced the women he impregnated to get an abortion. Even those legislating against abortion do that to their mistresses.
06-21-2019 05:42 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Keith Raniere Nxivm trial: Why it's so hard to stop a cult

There is a trial in NY for a sex cult. One of the key pillars holding this thing up is legal abortions. Women enslaved and abused were also required to get abortions. Clearly abortion should not be "no questions asked". Anyone who has pushed that idea needs to feel responsibility for enabling this kind of abuse.
06-19-2019 08:51 PM
awareness
Re: Gerrymandering

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I think we would be better off if instead of dividing the state up into districts that vote for different representatives every person in the State should get to vote and the 2 Senators that get the most votes, as well as the 10 representatives that get the most votes (if the State is electing 10) get in. Doing this would effectively weaken the two party system because it would be easier for people with a specific agenda like environment, balanced budget, or abortion to get elected. It would make it easier to get the government to work because creating temporary coalitions over various legislation would be easier. It also means people would feel like their vote is being counted.

Their is no reason to do it the way we do now other than to establish a two party system. That two party system is the cause of all kinds of rancor and it makes it easier for the corporate oligarchy's an opportunity to control our govt.
The two party system is just a tag-team.
06-19-2019 08:49 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
In the days of Daniel Boone anyone could try to live in a world disconnected from human government. Those days are gone. We have billions of people. Not thousands or millions. You cannot live apart from an organized society, and regardless of the structure of that organization there will be a "government".

Unbeknownst to most people they leave over 200 digital footprints each day. There is no anonymity, no independence.

Government is essential, yet look how disappointing most leaders are. Dictators manufacture a story, so they may seem like a "great leader" at the time, only for historians to later reveal the little man behind the curtain.

The real problem we have is not designing the constitution, but finding the leaders. We assume that if we have a good enough constitution then the people don't matter, yet the last 200 years has proved this is false.

This of course is the point of the NT. In the gospels we learn who the Lord is, and in the epistles we learn who the servants are.
Seems the worse people in politics always succeed.
06-19-2019 03:27 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Gerrymandering

I think we would be better off if instead of dividing the state up into districts that vote for different representatives every person in the State should get to vote and the 2 Senators that get the most votes, as well as the 10 representatives that get the most votes (if the State is electing 10) get in. Doing this would effectively weaken the two party system because it would be easier for people with a specific agenda like environment, balanced budget, or abortion to get elected. It would make it easier to get the government to work because creating temporary coalitions over various legislation would be easier. It also means people would feel like their vote is being counted.

Their is no reason to do it the way we do now other than to establish a two party system. That two party system is the cause of all kinds of rancor and it makes it easier for the corporate oligarchy's an opportunity to control our govt.
06-13-2019 04:25 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
The folks living between the rivers didn't like Native American Indians, until they learned their American government could do to them what it did to the First Nation Peoples.

As a result those driven out from between the rivers, and later generations, don't tend to trust or like government.

Christians should be that way. I know Paul said all governments are ordained of God. But writing to Rome, I think he said that to keep the Roman authorities from getting riled at him for converting the pagans away from worshiping their gods.

Besides, maybe God ordained governments back then, but not now, here in America, where our democratic system of government determines who our leaders are.
In the days of Daniel Boone anyone could try to live in a world disconnected from human government. Those days are gone. We have billions of people. Not thousands or millions. You cannot live apart from an organized society, and regardless of the structure of that organization there will be a "government".

Unbeknownst to most people they leave over 200 digital footprints each day. There is no anonymity, no independence.

Government is essential, yet look how disappointing most leaders are. Dictators manufacture a story, so they may seem like a "great leader" at the time, only for historians to later reveal the little man behind the curtain.

The real problem we have is not designing the constitution, but finding the leaders. We assume that if we have a good enough constitution then the people don't matter, yet the last 200 years has proved this is false.

This of course is the point of the NT. In the gospels we learn who the Lord is, and in the epistles we learn who the servants are.
06-13-2019 01:52 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
But what about the locals, like your people in the LBL, who got screwed? I guess they were supposed to be happy with LBJ's welfare programs.
The folks living between the rivers didn't like Native American Indians, until they learned their American government could do to them what it did to the First Nation Peoples.

As a result those driven out from between the rivers, and later generations, don't tend to trust or like government.

Christians should be that way. I know Paul said all governments are ordained of God. But writing to Rome, I think he said that to keep the Roman authorities from getting riled at him for converting the pagans away from worshiping their gods.

Besides, maybe God ordained governments back then, but not now, here in America, where our democratic system of government determines who our leaders are.
06-12-2019 07:58 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Recent events in the little town of Oberlin, west of Cleveland, are a show window into the current politicization of our Universities. When newly saved I used to visit a Christian coworker for a game of Chess and fellowship in that lovely little town.

This article explains how bad things have become. In the aftermath of Trump's election win, underage black youths got caught shoplifting wine at a neighborhood bakery. Instead of an isolated arrest, forcing our youth to be accountable for their criminal action, the College threw the shop owners under the bus, and broadcast this as racial profiling, citing historical slavery and every other crusade of our modern day social justice warriors.

Here's a snapshot from the article showing how horribly misinformed College officials had become . . .
Quote:
A longtime Oberlin resident, Emily Crawford, who also worked in the school’s communications department, sent out an email to her bosses and then it was forwarded to senior members of the college’s administration. The email read:
“I have talked to 15 townie friends who are poc (persons of color) and they are disgusted and embarrassed by the protest. In their view, the kid was breaking the law, period (even if he wasn’t shoplifting, he was underage). To them this is not a race issue at all and they do not believe the Gibson's [store owners] are racist. They believe the students have picked the wrong target … “I find this misdirected rage very disturbing, and it’s only going to widen the gap (between) town and gown.”
Tita Reed, special assistant to the president for community and government relations, wrote back: “Doesn’t change a damn thing for me.

Many are throwing out the “Woke and Broke” designation on this case – and though some may see this as a larger issue of the conservatives winning over liberals — that wasn’t really what was going on here. The judge kept politics out of this case, and the jury was actually deciding not so much on what the college did do, but what it did not do.

One of things they did not do is listen to the people who have been in Oberlin awhile and understand things like this. So, it’s not “Woke and Broke,” so much as “Dumb and Dumber.”
06-11-2019 12:36 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Don't forget that one reason we don't like Trump is that he himself has also screwed people in a similar fashion. 2,000 lawsuits. Claims that contract workers don't get paid and can't fight it in court, and of course the people in Scotland are not thrilled with how he got his golf course built.

Not that any of that would be a reason to have voted for Clinton.
Reminds me of a story my uncle told me. He was a union electrician building Jacobs Field in Cleveland in the early '90's. Bill Clinton threw out the first pitch. Life was good for the rich and famous.

Most of the sub-contractors on that huge project, however, never got paid in full. Many went bankrupt. Nasty business. I'm sure NYC skyscrapers were worse. Politicians and Developers each greasing each others palms.

Like I have repeatedly said. They're all crooks and liars. Both politicians and developers. My concern is their policy. Do they line their pockets selling our strategic uranium to Russia? Do they go soft on China's military ambitions to enrich their kid's hedge fund? Do they bribe Ukrainian officials to fire prosecutors looking into their own family? Do they start wars to enrich their empire? Do they cave into actresses and flip-flop on policy? Do they undermine our way of life by introducing failed socialistic policies? Do they advance political agenda by using use our intelligence? Stuff like that concerns me more.
06-11-2019 06:08 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Thanks for reply. While I disagree with you about a "keen memory," you seem to have enough ammo from the LBL takeover to hate all politicians. Sounds like you have the makings to be a libertarian mugwump. One of the reasons why we both like an outsider like Trump, who at least is trying to drain the swamp.
Don't forget that one reason we don't like Trump is that he himself has also screwed people in a similar fashion. 2,000 lawsuits. Claims that contract workers don't get paid and can't fight it in court, and of course the people in Scotland are not thrilled with how he got his golf course built.

Not that any of that would be a reason to have voted for Clinton.
06-11-2019 03:55 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Mitch and Whitfield agreed that The Promise would be part of the LBL protection Act. It wasn't. The Forest Service says they never made such a promise. And since commercialization of LBL has been growing, and people from between the rivers can't stop it.

In short bro Ohio, it wasn't the pubbies that took the land from my family on both sides, but that damn demmie JFK. Still, it's been a bi-partisan screwing. And I suppose that's one good reason that politically I'm a mugwump.
Thanks for reply. While I disagree with you about a "keen memory," you seem to have enough ammo from the LBL takeover to hate all politicians. Sounds like you have the makings to be a libertarian mugwump. One of the reasons why we both like an outsider like Trump, who at least is trying to drain the swamp.

Liberal Politicians seem to love making national parts though. Obama did some of this recently out west. Seems like an easy sell to the rest of the country when we can save some endangered species and provide them with another vacation destination for their Daystar mobile home. But what about the locals, like your people in the LBL, who got screwed? I guess they were supposed to be happy with LBJ's welfare programs.
06-10-2019 09:15 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
You told me it was JFK who stole that Land Between the Lakes from the citizenry. JFK flew over and said it would make a great national park. You told me that the Feds demolished homes when the owners went to church or shopping.

What did MMc promise, and why could he not deliver? Did the Dems block him like they do on everything else?
You've got a keen memory bro Ohio. And yes, JFK was behind driving the folks off their lands to make Land between the Lakes National Recreation Park. I think we should do the same for the Kennedy compound.

I short, TVA was used because they had the power of eminent domain. TVA sold the idea to congress by promising a demonstration of how a natural park would be a boon to all business outside the park ; that there would be no commercial businesses inside the park. The demonstration failed.

So TVA was planning on selling it to Japan, and Disney was going to put one of its parks there. The folks from between the rivers rose up, and TVA got the boot and the Forest Service took over the park.

The LBL Protection Act was negotiated between Mitch (R-Ky), congressman Ed Whitfield (R-Ky) -- since forced to resign over ethics violations -- and the people from between the rivers. What was crucial to the people between the rivers was the keeping of what was termed "The Promise." The promise was that there would be no commercial enterprise in LBL. That was important to them because if a profit was going to be made in LBL they should be they ones profiting.

Mitch and Whitfield agreed that The Promise would be part of the LBL protection Act. It wasn't. The Forest Service says they never made such a promise. And since commercialization of LBL has been growing, and people from between the rivers can't stop it.

But at least Japan didn't get it, and Disney didn't setup, no thanks to Mitch and Whitfield, only to the people that rose up against it.

In short bro Ohio, it wasn't the pubbies that took the land from my family on both sides, but that damn demmie JFK. Still, it's been a bi-partisan screwing. And I suppose that's one good reason that politically I'm a mugwump.
06-09-2019 08:14 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Mitch double-crossed the people from between the rivers with the LBL Protection Act, promising them one thing and delivering another. In other words he lied.
You told me it was JFK who stole that Land Between the Lakes from the citizenry. JFK flew over and said it would make a great national park. You told me that the Feds demolished homes when the owners went to church or shopping.

What did MMc promise, and why could he not deliver? Did the Dems block him like they do on everything else?
06-09-2019 08:10 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Barr's career was already down the drain. She was trying to recover it by being outlandish. It backfired. Good riddance. I never liked her.
She was a comedian. They are all "outlandish." Did you never watch a comedy show? You, the minister of "laughter?" Sounds strange to me, bro. 95% of the comedians are liberals. Why don't you like her? Her ratings were #2. What did she ever do to you?
06-09-2019 05:27 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Mitch double-crossed the people from between the rivers with the LBL Protection Act, promising them one thing and delivering another. In other words he lied.
So you are comparing a 170,000 acre plot of land with the assassination of JFK and the biggest terrorist attack on US soil?
06-09-2019 11:51 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Roseann Barr had her career destroyed for comparing Jarrett to a chimpanzee, yet no one suffers for caricaturing McConnell as a turtle.

Didn't we supposedly evolve from chimps? So shouldn't that be less offensive than turtles? Double standard?
Barr's career was already down the drain. She was trying to recover it by being outlandish. It backfired. Good riddance. I never liked her.
06-09-2019 11:48 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
So enlighten us, what is Mitch McConnells crime against Kentucky? Help us all to find our way back to Jesus.
Mitch double-crossed the people from between the rivers with the LBL Protection Act, promising them one thing and delivering another. In other words he lied.
06-08-2019 10:37 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
But you can bet that McTurtle knows what it means. That's why he wants his judges to do it.
Roseann Barr had her career destroyed for comparing Jarrett to a chimpanzee, yet no one suffers for caricaturing McConnell as a turtle.

Didn't we supposedly evolve from chimps? So shouldn't that be less offensive than turtles? Double standard?
06-08-2019 10:34 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Don't know that I hold to liberal values. That's a label that you want to pin on me, based upon your need to put others in boxes. Is that conservative values, according to your boxes?
The difference between our two approaches could not be more evident.

You like to characterize all Christians by the poor actions of individual isolated Christians over the centuries. This is definitely a troubling liberal tendency. You have demeaned all evangelicals simply because they have supported Trump, who has been vilified for years in the worst possible way. Any citizen or politician who has ever supported Trump, like Senator McConnell, is also caricatured in the worst possible way.

I, however, have no issue with being described as an evangelical or conservative. That doesn't mean that I support every single teaching or policy, but close enough for having a conversation. It's no secret that I subscribe to conservative sites like Federalist, Am. Spectator, Am. Thinker, Breitbart, Atkisson, or Citizen Free Press. I quote from them.

You, however, quote from the British tabloid Daily Mail, and have mentioned how much you like them. Like much of MSM, those who subscribe to these sites consider themselves liberals. I don't see why you would resist such a label for communication purposes, since you have never, at least to my recollection, supported a conservative, a conservative policy, or a conservative news site.

So, on the one hand, you resist labels or boxes, yet your views check off all of the liberal descriptors of the Left. Then, on the other hand, you willingly ascribe the worst of the so called "Alt-Right" on every evangelical and conservative. I don't mind labels if they fit. But I do protest characterizations of criminal actions on all. That would be like me accusing you of all the violent actions of Antifa and Occupy, though I would prefer that you not be silent on their violent ways.

Why is it that the Left never disowns their violence like campus protests against all conservatives, yet all conservatives, including Trump repeatedly, reject any and all association with KKK supremacists? Read the transcripts. Trump said there are "good people on both sides" of the confederate monument debate.

Almost a half century of pro-life anti-Roe peaceful protests have never had an incident. That is why the Left had to manufacture one using that Covington Catholic student.
06-08-2019 09:01 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Americans tend much more toward the middle on abortion than the polarized debate on the issue would suggest, according to a new a new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll.

Almost half the public, 47 percent, supports strict bans on abortion that would allow a mother to procure one only for a serious reason. About 9 percent say abortion should never be permitted under any circumstance, another 9 percent say it should be allowed only to save the life of the mother, and 29 percent say the procedure should be permitted only in cases of rape, incest, or when the mother’s life is at stake.


That is my issue with the pro abortionists in a nutshell. They lie. They portray those who want strict regulations on abortion as though they were religious nut jobs when in reality we represent 47% of the US population.

Now those 47% hold that view despite being portrayed as right wing nut jobs, I wonder if some of the 53% are only on that side simply because they don't want to appear as some kind of nut. When information like this gets out I suspect you will find the 53% shrinks by several percentage points.
So well said. Public shaming, manipulation, and gaslighting -- some of the same ingredients that have been so objectionable at LSM -- are used to promote this insidious slaughter of the weakest, the most innocent, and absolutely the most vulnerable of mankind.

How is abortion any different from the extermination of "undesirables" exterminated by Hitler and Stalin? Together they only reached 30 million innocent victims, whereas our abortion numbers have doubled that.

Yet the media portrays the Left as compassionate, and the right as neo-nazi supremacists. Talk about deception and the blind leading the blind!
06-08-2019 08:46 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Americans tend much more toward the middle on abortion than the polarized debate on the issue would suggest, according to a new a new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll.

Almost half the public, 47 percent, supports strict bans on abortion that would allow a mother to procure one only for a serious reason. About 9 percent say abortion should never be permitted under any circumstance, another 9 percent say it should be allowed only to save the life of the mother, and 29 percent say the procedure should be permitted only in cases of rape, incest, or when the mother’s life is at stake.


That is my issue with the pro abortionists in a nutshell. They lie. They portray those who want strict regulations on abortion as though they were religious nut jobs when in reality we represent 47% of the US population.

Now those 47% hold that view despite being portrayed as right wing nut jobs, I wonder if some of the 53% are only on that side simply because they don't want to appear as some kind of nut. When information like this gets out I suspect you will find the 53% shrinks by several percentage points. If you look at the categories not one was as lenient as Alabama. Add in any woman could get an abortion prior to the heartbeat of the fetus and you will surely increase this number. This makes me utterly disgusted with hollywood and these immoral actors and actresses who make it seem like Alabama's law is some outrageous affront, when in reality it is highly likely that 50% of the US population supports it. So what is wrong with one state out of 50 having such a law? What is the fear? That all the fear mongering about what will happen is shown to be a big fat lie.

Also, please note, if 50% of the US population supports Alabama's law then surely significantly less than 50% supports the legalization of all abortions in every state up until viability (5 months?) Hence the law as it has been is undemocratic and was forced upon us by 9 judges.
06-08-2019 02:32 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
But I know, from what I've seen, those qualities, or lack thereof, doesn't bother modern day Christian evangelicals, who seem to have lost track of Jesus, and any modicum of Christian values.
What is a "Christian" value as opposed to common values that all people hold?

I have expressed outrage over the way the JFK assassination was handled, but I don't see that as a "Christian" value, simply a human value of respecting life and being responsible to make sure the killers are brought to justice.

I have expressed outrage over the way the Box 13 scandal was ignored, but again, not a "Christian value" simply the human value of objecting to lying and cheating in Congress and the Senate.

I have expressed outrage over the way 911 was investigated, not a "Christian" value, but simply the outrage over the inept, ridiculous and insulting way they have investigated this and treated the American people.

I am quite concerned about the implications of the Snowden affair and the prosecution of the Wiki Leaks leader Asange.

My brother took the habeas corpus case to the Supreme court pro bono, again, not a Christian value, simply the human value of being offended at the abuse of the common man by the rich and powerful.

So enlighten us, what is Mitch McConnells crime against Kentucky? Help us all to find our way back to Jesus.
06-08-2019 02:05 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Doesn't it violate your liberal value system to mock people based on their birth-appearance?
Don't know that I hold to liberal values. That's a label that you want to pin on me, based upon your need to put others in boxes. Is that conservative values, according to your boxes?

But good point bro Ohio. Just because Mitch resembles a turtle, doesn't mean that he is one. But if he was, I would that he'd be a post turtle.

Based upon what he did to people here in Kentucky, between the rivers, the man is a liar and cheat. Calling him a turtle doesn't come close to what he deserves.

But I know, from what I've seen, those qualities, or lack thereof, doesn't bother modern day Christian evangelicals, who seem to have lost track of Jesus, and any modicum of Christian values.
06-07-2019 01:48 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Doesn't it violate your liberal value system to mock people based on their birth-appearance?
Only if they are LGBTQ
06-07-2019 05:41 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
But you can bet that McTurtle knows what it means. That's why he wants his judges to do it.
Doesn't it violate your liberal value system to mock people based on their birth-appearance?
06-07-2019 03:30 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Cutting to the chase, overturn Roe will only create the rise in black market RU486, Mifepristone, that's presently legal in all 50 states, and in Europe, and many countries; in other words, the cat is out of that bag. And there are other natural Abortifacients, like Mugwort, that grows wild in America.

All this info is available on the web. And if Roe is overturned, will we become like China and censor all that off the web? I doubt it.

Turns out that, women are independent agents. Abortion like prostitution goes way back in human history. And making either one illegal hasn't stopped either one, and won't.

Sorry all you male prigs ... best idea for you is to keep it in your pants.

And my advice to all the women in these slave holding states, is, to cut all the male prigs off. Then they'll learn that women have control over their own bodies.
You are comparing Alabama's law with Prohibition and the sale of moonshine. That is a bad analogy. If the States are able to regulate and limit the practice the proper analogy would be the blue laws passed by some states prohibiting the sale of alcohol at certain times. This does not lead to moonshine. Rather, people go across the border and buy alcohol at those prohibited times.

Leaving your hypothetical nightmare scenario that has no connection to the current situation lets talk about what women's options would be.

1. Anyone raped could go to the hospital or police and get a morning after pill, or get tested to see if she is pregnant and then get the operation within 6 weeks of the event. Everyone knows that this is the safest and best time. So unlike the dark recesses of your imagination, this would make everyone safer.

2. If the woman decides to get an abortion later than that she could drive or take a bus to the border. For virtually everyone in Alabama that would be trip of less than an hour.

So once again, the constitutional solution to this issue is to leave it up to the States. It is safer and it respects the principal of democratic rule and State sovereignty. Once again, the arguments made by the pro abortionists are bogus scare tactics.
06-06-2019 09:14 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Went down with the flu. Nailed me. Not out of the woods yet, but better. Be back to give y'all all hell soon. haha.
Do you get the flu shot?
06-06-2019 07:41 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Sovereignty of our bodies? What does that mean?
That's a darn good question. One that has been debated since the ancients. Personally I think it has to do with "unalienable rights" mentioned in the Dec. of Independence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
There is no such thing.
Oh but there is. Google - 'constitutional sovereignty' spend some time on it and see for yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Roe defined judicial activism. Overturning Roe in not judicial activism. Apparently you don't understand what that means.
But you can bet that McTurtle knows what it means. That's why he wants his judges to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Overturning Roe simply puts the states in charge of their own people. That is constitutional.
So you say. But you're not on the court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
No one is controlling women. We are only trying to protect the unborn. They are not hostages, they are human lives. Can't you understand that? Since when do parents "own" their kids, and have the "right" to murder them?
You're obfuscating, and conflating living children outside a woman's body, with unborn's that's in a woman's body.

Cutting to the chase, overturn Roe will only create the rise in black market RU486, Mifepristone, that's presently legal in all 50 states, and in Europe, and many countries; in other words, the cat is out of that bag. And there are other natural Abortifacients, like Mugwort, that grows wild in America.

All this info is available on the web. And if Roe is overturned, will we become like China and censor all that off the web? I doubt it.

Turns out that, women are independent agents. Abortion like prostitution goes way back in human history. And making either one illegal hasn't stopped either one, and won't.

Sorry all you male prigs ... best idea for you is to keep it in your pants.

And my advice to all the women in these slave holding states, is, to cut all the male prigs off. Then they'll learn that women have control over their own bodies.
06-06-2019 06:22 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Went down with the flu. Nailed me. Not out of the woods yet, but better. Be back to give y'all all hell soon. haha.
06-02-2019 07:14 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Sovereignty of our bodies? What does that mean? There is no such thing.
Arguments:

1. Dodge the constitutional issue

2. Dodge the judicial activism issue

3. Dodge the democratic issue

4. Dodge the State's rights issue

5. Feigned outrage over hypothetical rape victim who didn't realize they had been raped until it was too late to get one of those Alabama abortions, forced to go to the 2nd rate Georgia abortionists.

6. So what is the only defense they have for taking away state's rights, having 9 men make laws that they have no authority to make, and deciding that the people of Alabama need to listen to others about how to run things? Sovereignty of a woman's body. Trumps the killing of a baby.
06-02-2019 06:51 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
We know what's going on, all of us. All these states see an opportunity to overturn Roe V Wade, with the new republican supreme court configuration.

I remember when Republicans were all up in arms about judicial activism. But I guess that was when they weren't able to do it. They painted it then that it was very wrong. But what does McTurtle care about right and wrong? Merrick Garland is a prime example.

So now they think they've got it all set up ... to finally find a way to control women, using their very own fetuses as hostages. Then women will belong to the state, and even belong to their fetus, not the other way around.

Like it or not, Roe v. Wade or not, women own the fetus within them. The fetus does not own the woman carrying it.

I'm against abortion, but the last thing I want to see is a government that violates the sovereignty of our bodies, male or female.

Pubbies are famous for wanting gov'ment out of our lives ... so they've preached ... but they lie.
Sovereignty of our bodies? What does that mean? There is no such thing. Just move, or talk, or maybe do nothing at all, and you may have just committed a crime.

Roe defined judicial activism. Overturning Roe in not judicial activism. Apparently you don't understand what that means. Overturning Roe simply puts the states in charge of their own people. That is constitutional.

No one is controlling women. We are only trying to protect the unborn. They are not hostages, they are human lives. Can't you understand that? Since when do parents "own" their kids, and have the "right" to murder them?
06-02-2019 05:51 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Pubbies are famous for wanting gov'ment out of our lives ... so they've preached ... but they lie.
Roe v Wade is the government in our lives, in an unwanted way, overstepping their bounds.

The issue is simple -- SCOTUS declares this is an issue that is for the States to decide. If Alabama draws the line at the heartbeat and a woman in Alabama is raped, use the morning after pill. Go to the police, go to the hospital, and deal with it immediately. If for some reason that is not a possibility and she has passed the line where it is no longer legal in Alabama, go to Georgia.

I am not interested in telling Alabama what laws and regulations they should have, nor do I care that much about the other 48 states. I'll vote in NY and leave it to the other Americans to do what they think is right. I have no issue with you doing the same in your state, which I am led to understand is not Alabama.

Otherwise the federal govt is lying to us. The constitution does not give SCOTUS the grounds to decide this.

Everyone is lying. You can't claim that the issue is that many women don't know they're pregnant at this time and then use incest and rape as your examples. The woman didn't know she was sexually assaulted? What it takes 2 months before a woman realizes she has been sexually assaulted?
06-02-2019 03:41 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
So a viable baby has no rights. Baby 8 1/2 months, no rights.
Ouch! Now you're hitting a little too close to home. I was 2 1/2 months premature. Doctors told my mom and dad that it wasn't likely I'd live. Obviously, I did.

Your appeal provokes strong emotional response. I'm glad that your standing for my right to be here.

But this conversation is happening not because states are banning abortions at 8.5. How about 6 weeks? When most women aren't even sure if they are preg. or having a cycle disruption. And there isn't even a heart beat.

We know what's going on, all of us. All these states see an opportunity to overturn Roe V Wade, with the new republican supreme court configuration.

I remember when Republicans were all up in arms about judicial activism. But I guess that was when they weren't able to do it. They painted it then that it was very wrong. But what does McTurtle care about right and wrong? Merrick Garland is a prime example.

So now they think they've got it all set up ... to finally find a way to control women, using their very own fetuses as hostages. Then women will belong to the state, and even belong to their fetus, not the other way around.

Like it or not, Roe v. Wade or not, women own the fetus within them. The fetus does not own the woman carrying it.

I'm against abortion, but the last thing I want to see is a government that violates the sovereignty of our bodies, male or female.

Pubbies are famous for wanting gov'ment out of our lives ... so they've preached ... but they lie.
06-02-2019 01:41 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Many legal experts, having examined Roe, have declared it the worst juris prudence in the history of he republic.

It just baffles me that christians, like awareness, could support abortion at the expense of the most innocent and vulnerable of all life.
The fact that we are here almost 50 years later still debating it is, in my mind, proof of how bad a ruling it was.

You don't see that with Brown vs board of ed, or any other controversial ruling.
06-02-2019 12:27 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
The US constitution is very clear, no law legalizing or forbidding religion.

The Bible calls abortion "sacrifice to Baal" (when a woman sees the baby as interfering with her career) and/or a sacrifice to Moloch (worship of fornication).

Therefore the Supreme court should have declared they have no jurisdiction on this issue and it is up to each individual state.
Many legal experts, having examined Roe, have declared it the worst juris prudence in the history of he republic.

It just baffles me that christians, like awareness, could support abortion at the expense of the most innocent and vulnerable of all life.
06-02-2019 08:50 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

The US constitution is very clear, no law legalizing or forbidding religion.

The Bible calls abortion "sacrifice to Baal" (when a woman sees the baby as interfering with her career) and/or a sacrifice to Moloch (worship of fornication).

Therefore the Supreme court should have declared they have no jurisdiction on this issue and it is up to each individual state.
06-01-2019 07:39 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
No games. My position is that women have sovereign rights over their own body. And they decide where the line is drawn. Not you.
Agreed. I have said this repeatedly. Women have rights over their own body. In fact, they can even take their own life, and they will not be prosecuted.

But the unborn is NOT the woman's body. The unborn has its own body, with its own unique DNA.

Why is this concept too difficult for you to understand? Yer a smart guy, you can understand this.
06-01-2019 06:50 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
No games. My position is that women have sovereign rights over their own body. And they decide where the line is drawn. Not you.

And the constitution, according to the 7/2 decision of the supreme court in 1973 supports the sovereignty of women's right to their own body. As it should be.
So a viable baby has no rights. Baby 8 1/2 months, no rights.

The woman had the right over her own body when she conceived.

She had the right over her own body 2 months later when she knew she was pregnant. But she decided to wait another 6 1/2 months before terminating because that is her sovereign right.

By this logic we give more rights to unborn deer and geese than we do to babies. At least with them we regulate when the hunter can and can't kill them because they might be pregnant.

The US government can imprison you for a year and give you a $50,000 fine for killing an animal on the endangered species list, but they cannot protect babies?

The US government and every single state government has many laws and regulations protecting baby animals and pregnant animals from having the pregnancy terminated, but they can't do the same for human babies?

Finally, why does a 7-2 decision by 9 old people trump the principal of democracy and the US constitution?

There is nothing in the US constitution about abortion, the Supreme court has no authority to make laws. Their decision said that a woman had a right to privacy as long as the baby wasn't viable. So in their "interpretation" the right to privacy does not trump the right of a baby to live. They have clearly deemed there are two competing interests involved in this issue and both have a standing in the eyes of the court.

So the court did not decide that a woman decides where to draw the line.

The problem with drawing the line at "viability" is that this has changed as medical care has improved. The heartbeat by comparison has not changed over the same period of time so as a unit of measurement is far more reliable. For example, "one month after the detection of a heartbeat" would be the same today as it was in the 70s. So why choose an arbitrary time of "viability" when that will continually change? My guess is that once you use the heartbeat as a basis the question then becomes why are you waiting a month after this baby is a living being with a heartbeat?
06-01-2019 06:02 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Nothing but games with Awareness. Where exactly is the line that he would draw? He has an issue with Alabama drawing the line at a heart beat. Does he have an issue with the SCOTUS drawing the line at viability?

Enough with the vague, ridiculousness. Awareness needs to tell us where should the line be drawn and why? Also, why is it that Alabama does not have the right to draw the line at the heart beat? Finally, why does Awareness' view of abortion trump America's constitution and principal of democracy?
No games. My position is that women have sovereign rights over their own body. And they decide where the line is drawn. Not you.

And the constitution, according to the 7/2 decision of the supreme court in 1973 supports the sovereignty of women's right to their own body. As it should be.
06-01-2019 05:56 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
More games here, bro?

In Matthew, the Magi worshiped the child Jesus as King of the Jews.

In Luke, the angels and shepherds worshiped Him as the Savior, who is Christ the Lord, and all who heard them marveled at what they said.

You obviously refuse to see what you don't want to know.
Okay, King, Savior, Christ the Lord. But not as God.
05-31-2019 02:07 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
More games here, bro?
Nothing but games with Awareness. Where exactly is the line that he would draw? He has an issue with Alabama drawing the line at a heart beat. Does he have an issue with the SCOTUS drawing the line at viability?

Enough with the vague, ridiculousness. Awareness needs to tell us where should the line be drawn and why? Also, why is it that Alabama does not have the right to draw the line at the heart beat? Finally, why does Awareness' view of abortion trump America's constitution and principal of democracy?
05-31-2019 12:07 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Jesus may have been worshiped, but not as God the Father, nor even God the Son, in those precise words ... and you know it. You are clearly seeing what you want to see.
More games here, bro?

In Matthew, the Magi worshiped the child Jesus as King of the Jews.

In Luke, the angels and shepherds worshiped Him as the Savior, who is Christ the Lord, and all who heard them marveled at what they said.

You obviously refuse to see what you don't want to know.
05-31-2019 11:55 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
You obviously believe in controlling women's bodies.

So let's hear it : LOCK 'EM UP !!! LOCK 'EM UP !!! LOCK 'EM UP !!!
I control no one. I am only trying to protect the lives of the innocent. Sorry if that is too hard for you to understand. Folks like you are their biggest danger, as they say, "The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing."

But keep digging. You have almost reached 6 feet.
05-31-2019 09:16 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Reading the book of Jeremiah, Judah sacrificed to Baal in the valley outside of Jerusalem. The Lord was so upset with this idolatrous practice, that He warned them that this valley will be filled with those killed by the Babylonians, and none of their bodies would be buried.

Today the same atrocities are being commited to America's children.
Well I do see in the news mothers and fathers killing their own children. There's some presently in court and jail for doing it.

But I've never read in the Bible that fetuses were being sacrificed to Baal. Maybe I missed it. Verse please.

I have read of God telling to use a bitter drink to abort the unborn of an unfaithful wife.
05-31-2019 09:10 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
What do you mean "rethink this post or reword it in some way?"
Well okay brother. I was just being considerate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
First, there's a lot of Roman Catholic in your conception (no pun intended). Jesus wasn't declared both 100% man and God until the synods, by imperial decree, starting with the First Council of Nicaea, (325AD). Such a conception is not found in the Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Our faith and views of scripture have little to do with Councils, which are often in error, kind of similar to this post of yours.

Luke 1.26-56 makes it very clear that the angel Gabriel, sent by God, informed Mary that the child conceived in her womb, who shall be named Jesus, was both God and man, "He will be great, called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to Him the throne of David His Father."
Those verses don't apply to 100% man and God. If I'm wrong please point it out ; chapter and verse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
Second, a seed isn't produced at conception. It takes two seeds to do that. In that case, by your reckoning, life begins at erection and ovulation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
This is merely wordplay. What we are referring to at conception is an embryo, which technically develops from a zygote.
You're a smart guy, and have had children, so surely you looked into the development post-fertilization. It starts out with two "seeds" meeting ; life meets life. There's no "beginning of life."

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
And finally, if what you say is true, why didn't the wise men come when Mary conceived?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
The Wise Men from the east actually began their journey when they saw His star at conception. (Matt 2.1-12)
I must be blind. Where do those verses say that? I saw a lot of "born" in the verses, but not conception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Obviously God never wanted these inspired guests to worship His Son in the womb of Mary, as that might appear to be God-sanctioned "Mary-worship," which, of course, the real church would never do.
lol ... No! The church would never do that! Then they would conjure Mary ... and she'd be showing up everywhere. Why would we want to hear from a double-agent of God?

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
If Jesus was God, and that doesn't have strong exegetical Biblical grounding, he would have been God at that point, and the star would have guided them then, to the seed of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
The Bible plainly states that Jesus was regularly worshiped as God, both at birth, during His ministry, and after His resurrection. So sad to see that your extensive online reading list has caused you to give up on this priceless truth.
Jesus may have been worshiped, but not as God the Father, nor even God the Son, in those precise words ... and you know it. You are clearly seeing what you want to see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
In short, even the the books of Matthew and Luke recognized that Jesus was a living soul at birth. Gen. 2:7 clearly states it takes the breath to become a "living soul."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
The Bible states we are souls, and we have a soul. Jesus as Son of Man was the same. Your demand that a person needs to breathe, based on this verse, is laughable. All scripture is also "God-breathed." Does that mean my Bible must also be "breathing?"
Silly question. But some believe it breaths.

Not laughable. Our laws as to sovereign rights to the privacy of our own body starts at our first breath, generally speaking ... technically, when we exit the womb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
And by our constitution, and laws, that's when a person have legal rights, and it's murder to kill them. But still, the parents have sovereignty over that little body until it's grown, as the pregnant mother does while carrying it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Sovereignty over one's children does not provide the right to take the child's life.
The unborn is not legally considered to be a child.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
Moreover, even if the Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade it won't hold. Women have sovereign rights over their body. Not only can they use a coat hanger, there's also chemical means for abortion they can use, and they will use them because we can't stop them. Abortion was happening thousands of years before Roe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
Yes, women have "rights" over their own body. And for that matter, no woman has ever been prosecuted for taking her own life.

But the unborn baby within a woman is not her own body. It's not even a part of her body. It does not have her DNA. She has no "right" over the life of this baby. Whether babies were aborted before Roe has nothing to do with it. Should we legalize other forms of murder since Cain killed his own brother back at the dawn of man? What kind of logic is that?
This is backward thinking. 2000 yrs backward in fact. 2000 yrs ago they did think that the woman was just an incubator; where the mans seed grew within. Today we know better. And they should have know too. I've cut three umbilical cords. I saw my son cut out of his mother. I've seen close up and clearly how much the baby within is part of the mothers body. The woman is not an incubator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
Why don't we make laws against men that produce unwanted pregnancies? Oh, I forget. Men make the laws, and they aren't going to make laws against themselves ... only against women.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
In a Constitutional Republic, our representatives make our laws. Male representatives have made laws against men since the beginning. Ever been stopped for speeding? An elected "man" probably has written that law.
We're talking about laws to stop abortion. Men can do that with a condom. They are the ones creating unwanted pregnancies. If we're gonna make laws to stop abortion, make a law against that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
I blame this whole uproar on the Christian Dominionists. Who want to take us back to the Old Testament days. When women were property.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
There you go again! Always blaming Christians for all of this world's ills.
Well ya got me. I blamed the Christian Dominionists. Are you defending them? If so, you may not know anything about them. Or, you may know about them, and support them. You obviously believe in controlling women's bodies. Aren't you married? Aren't you divorced? By now you surely know that you can't control a woman. So let's hear it : LOCK 'EM UP !!! LOCK 'EM UP !!! LOCK 'EM UP !!!
05-31-2019 07:58 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Not only so but in the books of Moses the Lord makes it clear that abortion and infanticide (sacrificing their sons, daughters and seed to Moloch and Baal) are the reason he is dispossessing the nations from Israel.
Jeremiah continually mentions the Queen of Heaven, (Babylonian Ishtar, Canaanite Ashteroth) the goddess of fertility, whom the Israelite women worshiped with incense, drink offerings, etc. (Jer 44)

History informs us that God judged the nations for this practice, and then judged Israel for the same practice. Israel was so blind during the days of Jeremiah that they even credited their well-being to her. (v.17)

The Left is clueless as to how disturbing this is to the Lord. The darkness and blindness of their ideology and evil practices even deludes some of the children of God.
05-31-2019 05:48 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Reading the book of Jeremiah, Judah sacrificed to Baal in the valley outside of Jerusalem. The Lord was so upset with this idolatrous practice, that He warned them that this valley will be filled with those killed by the Babylonians, and none of their bodies would be buried.

Today the same atrocities are being commited to America's children.
Not only so but in the books of Moses the Lord makes it clear that abortion and infanticide (sacrificing their sons, daughters and seed to Moloch and Baal) are the reason he is dispossessing the nations from Israel.
05-30-2019 07:23 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
The Bible talks about having your son or daughter pass through the fire, and also about having your seed pass through the fire. It describes this as an offering to Moloch or Baal. The two primary reasons to abort a baby is that it is a product of fornication, or that it would interfere with the woman's career.

When a baby is aborted they then throw it out like medical waste and it is incinerated. (Though one state just passed a law that these aborted babies need to be buried/cremated).

God considers an aborted baby to be an offering to Moloch or to Baal.
Reading the book of Jeremiah, Judah sacrificed to Baal in the valley outside of Jerusalem. The Lord was so upset with this idolatrous practice, that He warned them that this valley will be filled with those killed by the Babylonians, and none of their bodies would be buried.

Today the same atrocities are being commited to America's children.
05-30-2019 07:16 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Goodness brother. Methinks you need to rethink this post, or at least reword it in some way. Please. Pretty Please.
What do you mean "rethink this post or reword it in some way?"
05-30-2019 06:37 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weighingin View Post
Just to let all know why I asked the "living soul" question.
In post 5656, Awareness states that fetuses in the first have the neural system of a shrimp and can't speak or speak in the first 8 to 10 weeks. That verse came to me after I read it. I believe that it's a human life, but in its most rudimentary form. There are situations where abortions may be performed such as health of the mom, incest, rape (even though there are testimonies of those whose moms decided to carry full term).
As far as I know, the Bible doesn't mention terminating pregnancies, but it does say you shall not kill. So that would mean terminating a human life, no matter what stage its in.
Certainly, with wanting to allow late abortions, it's has clearly come to the point to the point of murder.
The Bible talks about having your son or daughter pass through the fire, and also about having your seed pass through the fire. It describes this as an offering to Moloch or Baal. The two primary reasons to abort a baby is that it is a product of fornication, or that it would interfere with the woman's career.

When a baby is aborted they then throw it out like medical waste and it is incinerated. (Though one state just passed a law that these aborted babies need to be buried/cremated).

God considers an aborted baby to be an offering to Moloch or to Baal.
05-30-2019 06:17 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
So much misinformation here, I thought it best to respond line by line . . . .

Our faith and views of scripture have little to do with Councils, which are often in error, kind of similar to this post of yours.

Luke 1.26-56 makes it very clear that the angel Gabriel, sent by God, informed Mary that the child conceived in her womb, who shall be named Jesus, was both God and man, "He will be great, called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to Him the throne of David His Father."


This is merely wordplay. What we are referring to at conception is an embryo, which technically develops from a zygote.

The Wise Men from the east actually began their journey when they saw His star at conception. (Matt 2.1-12) Unfortunately these not so Wise Men got distracted and went to Jerusalem, where Herod got involved. Since they arrived late, they were not at the manger worshiping with the Shepherds, but found Jesus a few days later in a "house," where they worshiped Him with gifts. Obviously God never wanted these inspired guests to worship His Son in the womb of Mary, as that might appear to be God-sanctioned "Mary-worship," which, of course, the real church would never do.

The Bible plainly states that Jesus was regularly worshiped as God, both at birth, during His ministry, and after His resurrection. So sad to see that your extensive online reading list has caused you to give up on this priceless truth.

The Bible states we are souls, and we have a soul. Jesus as Son of Man was the same. Your demand that a person needs to breathe, based on this verse, is laughable. All scripture is also "God-breathed." Does that mean my Bible must also be "breathing?"

Sovereignty over one's children does not provide the right to take the child's life.

Yes, women have "rights" over their own body. And for that matter, no woman has ever been prosecuted for taking her own life.

But the unborn baby within a woman is not her own body. It's not even a part of her body. It does not have her DNA. She has no "right" over the life of this baby. Whether babies were aborted before Roe has nothing to do with it. Should we legalize other forms of murder since Cain killed his own brother back at the dawn of man? What kind of logic is that?

In a Constitutional Republic, our representatives make our laws. Male representatives have made laws against men since the beginning. Ever been stopped for speeding? An elected "man" probably has written that law.

There you go again! Always blaming Christians for all of this world's ills.
Goodness brother. Methinks you need to rethink this post, or at least reword it in some way. Please. Pretty Please.
05-30-2019 06:04 PM
Weighingin
Re: Politics and the Church

Just to let all know why I asked the "living soul" question.
In post 5656, Awareness states that fetuses in the first have the neural system of a shrimp and can't speak or speak in the first 8 to 10 weeks. That verse came to me after I read it. I believe that it's a human life, but in its most rudimentary form. There are situations where abortions may be performed such as health of the mom, incest, rape (even though there are testimonies of those whose moms decided to carry full term).
As far as I know, the Bible doesn't mention terminating pregnancies, but it does say you shall not kill. So that would mean terminating a human life, no matter what stage its in.
Certainly, with wanting to allow late abortions, it's has clearly come to the point to the point of murder.
05-30-2019 05:41 PM
Weighingin
Re: Politics and the Church

Just to let all know why I asked the "living soul" question.
In post 5656, Awareness states that fetuses in the first have the neural system of a shrimp and can't speak or speak in the first 8 to 10 weeks. That verse came to me after I read it. I believe that it's a human life, but in its most rudimentary form. There are situations where abortions may be performed such as health of the mom, incest, rape (even though there are testimonies of those whose moms decided to carry full term).
As far as I know, the Bible doesn't mention terminating pregnancies, but it does say you shall not kill. So that would mean terminating a human life, no matter what stage its in.
Certainly, with wanting to allow late abortions, it's has clearly come to the point to the point of murder.
05-30-2019 10:47 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

So much misinformation here, I thought it best to respond line by line . . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
First, there's a lot of Roman Catholic in your conception (no pun intended). Jesus wasn't declared both 100% man and God until the synods, by imperial decree, starting with the First Council of Nicaea, (325AD). Such a conception is not found in the Bible.
Our faith and views of scripture have little to do with Councils, which are often in error, kind of similar to this post of yours.

Luke 1.26-56 makes it very clear that the angel Gabriel, sent by God, informed Mary that the child conceived in her womb, who shall be named Jesus, was both God and man, "He will be great, called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to Him the throne of David His Father."


Quote:
Second, a seed isn't produced at conception. It takes two seeds to do that. In that case, by your reckoning, life begins at erection and ovulation.
This is merely wordplay. What we are referring to at conception is an embryo, which technically develops from a zygote.

Quote:
And finally, if what you say is true, why didn't the wise men come when Mary conceived?
The Wise Men from the east actually began their journey when they saw His star at conception. (Matt 2.1-12) Unfortunately these not so Wise Men got distracted and went to Jerusalem, where Herod got involved. Since they arrived late, they were not at the manger worshiping with the Shepherds, but found Jesus a few days later in a "house," where they worshiped Him with gifts. Obviously God never wanted these inspired guests to worship His Son in the womb of Mary, as that might appear to be God-sanctioned "Mary-worship," which, of course, the real church would never do.

Quote:
If Jesus was God, and that doesn't have strong exegetical Biblical grounding, he would have been God at that point, and the star would have guided them then, to the seed of God.
The Bible plainly states that Jesus was regularly worshiped as God, both at birth, during His ministry, and after His resurrection. So sad to see that your extensive online reading list has caused you to give up on this priceless truth.

Quote:
In short, even the the books of Matthew and Luke recognized that Jesus was a living soul at birth. Gen. 2:7 clearly states it takes the breath to become a "living soul."
The Bible states we are souls, and we have a soul. Jesus as Son of Man was the same. Your demand that a person needs to breathe, based on this verse, is laughable. All scripture is also "God-breathed." Does that mean my Bible must also be "breathing?"

Quote:
And by our constitution, and laws, that's when a person have legal rights, and it's murder to kill them. But still, the parents have sovereignty over that little body until it's grown, as the pregnant mother does while carrying it.
Sovereignty over one's children does not provide the right to take the child's life.

Quote:
Moreover, even if the Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade it won't hold. Women have sovereign rights over their body. Not only can they use a coat hanger, there's also chemical means for abortion they can use, and they will use them because we can't stop them. Abortion was happening thousands of years before Roe.
Yes, women have "rights" over their own body. And for that matter, no woman has ever been prosecuted for taking her own life.

But the unborn baby within a woman is not her own body. It's not even a part of her body. It does not have her DNA. She has no "right" over the life of this baby. Whether babies were aborted before Roe has nothing to do with it. Should we legalize other forms of murder since Cain killed his own brother back at the dawn of man? What kind of logic is that?

Quote:
Why don't we make laws against men that produce unwanted pregnancies? Oh, I forget. Men make the laws, and they aren't going to make laws against themselves ... only against women.
In a Constitutional Republic, our representatives make our laws. Male representatives have made laws against men since the beginning. Ever been stopped for speeding? An elected "man" probably has written that law.

Quote:
I blame this whole uproar on the Christian Dominionists. Who want to take us back to the Old Testament days. When women were property.
There you go again! Always blaming Christians for all of this world's ills.
05-30-2019 07:51 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by countmeworthy View Post
Hello

When Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit..was He not GOD the Son and God Man at the very instant He was a Seed? Was HE not a living Soul?

When sperm and egg connect and produce a seed, that seed is fully a human being based on Jesus being conceived as a SEED.
And hello to you sis CMW.

First, there's a lot of Roman Catholic in your conception (no pun intended). Jesus wasn't declared both 100% man and God until the synods, by imperial decree, starting with the First Council of Nicaea, (325AD). Such a conception is not found in the Bible.

Second, a seed isn't produced at conception. It takes two seeds to do that. In that case, by your reckoning, life begins at erection and ovulation.

And finally, if what you say is true, why didn't the wise men come when Mary conceived? If Jesus was God, and that doesn't have strong exegetical Biblical grounding, he would have been God at that point, and the star would have guided them then, to the seed of God. In short, even the the books of Matthew and Luke recognized that Jesus was a living soul at birth.

Gen. 2:7 clearly states it takes the breath to become a "living soul."

And by our constitution, and laws, that's when a person have legal rights, and it's murder to kill them. But still, the parents have sovereignty over that little body until it's grown, as the pregnant mother does while carrying it.

Moreover, even if the Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade it won't hold. Women have sovereign rights over their body. Not only can they use a coat hanger, there's also chemical means for abortion they can use, and they will use them because we can't stop them. Abortion was happening thousands of years before Roe.

Why don't we make laws against men that produce unwanted pregnancies? Oh, I forget. Men make the laws, and they aren't going to make laws against themselves ... only against women.

I blame this whole uproar on the Christian Dominionists. Who want to take us back to the Old Testament days. When women were property.
05-30-2019 07:16 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weighingin View Post
When an embryo is first formed, is that a "living soul?"
Everyone, including all those who have legalized abortion, realize there is a line at which after that point the baby has rights independent of the mother.

Some use "viability" as the line. Alabama uses "heartbeat" as the line. But regardless, everyone realizes that any justification for the woman to be able to terminate the pregnancy decreases with every day that the embryo develops.
05-30-2019 06:59 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by countmeworthy View Post
Hello

When Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit..was He not GOD the Son and God Man at the very instant He was a Seed? Was HE not a living Soul?

When sperm and egg connect and produce a seed, that seed is fully a human being based on Jesus being conceived as a SEED.
Exactly.

Every other definition of life or humanity or personhood fails. Every conception is a miracle -- a man, a woman, and God. The Law may define a person by birth, by a heart beat, or by some other metric, but American Law is not the same as the truth of God.

Of course, the conception of Jesus was exceptionally unique, but every conception is also miraculous. Just because a human body cannot live outside the womb, does not make it less a person, or worse, just a "part" of its mother's body. God gives an everlasting soul to each at conception.

Every unborn child is absolutely unique -- with its own unique face, fingerprints, and DNA. The unborn never were part of its mother, and the mother has no right to murder this unborn person, created by the breath of God.

I believe the "Great cloud of witnesses" in Hebrews 12 includes the murdered unborn. One day justice will be served upon all of those who have supported abortion in any way, including legislators, doctors, judges, activists, and of course, mothers.
05-30-2019 06:29 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weighingin View Post
When an embryo is first formed, is that a "living soul?"
Gen_2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
05-29-2019 10:11 PM
countmeworthy
Re: Politics and the Church

Hello

When Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit..was He not GOD the Son and God Man at the very instant He was a Seed? Was HE not a living Soul?

When sperm and egg connect and produce a seed, that seed is fully a human being based on Jesus being conceived as a SEED.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Weighingin View Post
When an embryo is first formed, is that a "living soul?"
05-29-2019 07:28 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weighingin View Post
When an embryo is first formed, is that a "living soul?"
I believe so.
05-29-2019 07:24 PM
Weighingin
Re: Politics and the Church

When an embryo is first formed, is that a "living soul?"
05-29-2019 05:26 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
That's another joke, obviously. Fetuses in the first 10 weeks have the neural system of a shrimp, and can't speak or think.
There is strong evidence that these unborn, who can't yet speak or think, have a soul which will live forever. What do you think they will then say?

If thinking or speaking is required, do you now agree that babies under two years can also be slaughtered?

I could also make a strong case that many on the Left have never learned to properly think or speak. What do you propose that we do to them?
05-29-2019 04:50 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Why are they called "representatives"?

Could those men ever be elected if a very large number of women didn't vote for them?
05-29-2019 04:26 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Wow, are you saying that women don't have the right to vote in Alabama?! That is disturbing. I thought the majority of voters were women and they had the right to vote in every state.

How many times do the pro abortionists make it seem like men want to control women's bodies, ignoring the fact that this law could never pass without women supporting it.

The arrogance that they assume everyone has to support them except for a few old fossils from 150 years ago. Instead of lying continuously, why not try and listen to what others are saying.
25 men :

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/15/polit...ted/index.html
05-29-2019 01:35 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Alabama has a history of controlling the sovereignty of other peoples bodies... But this time it's the sovereignty of women's bodies.

https://eji.org/history-racial-injus...ive-slave-acts
Wow, are you saying that women don't have the right to vote in Alabama?! That is disturbing. I thought the majority of voters were women and they had the right to vote in every state.

How many times do the pro abortionists make it seem like men want to control women's bodies, ignoring the fact that this law could never pass without women supporting it.

The arrogance that they assume everyone has to support them except for a few old fossils from 150 years ago. Instead of lying continuously, why not try and listen to what others are saying.
05-29-2019 01:27 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I would like to hear from one unborn child that they support the "pro-choice" movement.
That's another joke, obviously. Fetuses in the first 10 weeks have the neural system of a shrimp, and can't speak or think.

I rescued one out of a toilet at about 8 or 10 weeks. It was smaller than a shrimp. And it didn't say anything at all. God was the abortion doctor. Maybe He needs to be imprisoned for life.
05-29-2019 01:15 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Remember it was the Alabaman Democrats who obstructed Lincoln's formation of the Republican Party and his work of emancipation.
Funny how it's flipped since then. Can we get that Republican party back again? I thought they wanted gov'ment out of our lives. Now they want the gov'ment in the most intimate of our lives. Republicans bragging about their past virtues while not holding them today is a sad joke.
05-29-2019 09:52 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Pro-choice groups lost in Alabama despite outspending the pro-life side by 100-to-1

Regardless of how you think about Alabama's law, if you don't live in Alabama why should we care? It seems like those who oppose this law also oppose the principle of democracy.

I see lots of signs from pro lifers saying "Its not your body". Well, it isn't theirs either.
I would like to hear from one unborn child that they support the "pro-choice" movement.

Thank God for all those, both men and women, who are fighting against a mother's "inconvenience," and for the life of unborn children.
05-29-2019 09:14 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Alabama has a history of controlling the sovereignty of other peoples bodies.

Such laws will not stand, any more than the Federal Fugitive Slave Act was able to stand. Alabama was big on that law to control peoples bodies too ; black bodies. Nothing new. But this time it's the sovereignty of women's bodies.
Remember it was the Alabaman Democrats who obstructed Lincoln's formation of the Republican Party and his work of emancipation.
05-29-2019 07:39 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Pro-choice groups lost in Alabama despite outspending the pro-life side by 100-to-1
Alabama has a history of controlling the sovereignty of other peoples bodies.

Such laws will not stand, any more than the Federal Fugitive Slave Act was able to stand. Alabama was big on that law to control peoples bodies too ; black bodies. Nothing new. But this time it's the sovereignty of women's bodies.

https://eji.org/history-racial-injus...ive-slave-acts
05-29-2019 05:54 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Pro-choice groups lost in Alabama despite outspending the pro-life side by 100-to-1

Regardless of how you think about Alabama's law, if you don't live in Alabama why should we care? It seems like those who oppose this law also oppose the principle of democracy.

I asked one woman who was being very vocal that if NY outlawed abortion but it was legal in New Jersey how inconvenient would that be? She agreed that going to NJ would not be an issue at all. Same is true of Conn. If the polls actually do favor abortion then what is the fuss, at least half, maybe 2/3 of the US states will not pass any laws. These people are very vehement about their right to an opinion on this issue, yet somehow don't think the citizens of Alabama have a right to theirs.

I see lots of signs from pro lifers saying "Its not your body". Well, it isn't theirs either.

In contract law you have the right to sign or not sign a contract. Complete freedom. But once you have signed you are obligated to that contract. This doesn't violate your freedom, it doesn't violate your rights. Why isn't it the same with a woman having sex. You have the right to refuse, you have the right to use various forms of contraceptives. But once you are pregnant how is that any less sacred than signing a contract?
05-25-2019 02:13 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Let's see who cuts the first deal with the prosecutors and starts spilling the beans . . . .

At least someone is spilling the beans. Hopefully all of them, including the ones locked up, Mueller, Hicks, and the rest. Including the banks, and the IRS.
05-25-2019 10:16 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Let's see who cuts the first deal with the prosecutors and starts spilling the beans . . . .

05-17-2019 03:36 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

CNN ran a story likening the new abortion laws to Hitler (except for). So the exception was that Hitler executed the doctors and imprisoned the women forcing them to become pregnant. Now those "exceptions" are the true Hitleresque actions that we associate with a monster. So this story just reinforces the entire "fake news" version of news aka 1984.
05-09-2019 02:01 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
This is brilliant! But . . .

Carter was President because of Nixon.
Reagan was President because of Carter.
G H W Bush was President because of Reagan.
Clinton was President because of Perot.
G W Bush was President because of Clinton.
Obama was President because of Bush.
Very funny! Trump was president not because he won the election but because Hillary lost it. I guess Tiger Woods didn't win all those tournaments, it was the other golfers who lost. Likewise with the Patriots and Brady, they didn't win, their opponents lost. This takes whininess to a whole new lower level.
05-09-2019 12:25 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
The irony is that, Trump is president BECAUSE of the Hildabeast.
This is brilliant! But . . .

Carter was President because of Nixon.
Reagan was President because of Carter.
G H W Bush was President because of Reagan.
Clinton was President because of Perot.
G W Bush was President because of Clinton.
Obama was President because of Bush.
05-09-2019 09:15 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Actually there were 5 Democratic candidates in 2016.

For 3 years they have been accusing Trump of "stealing" the election, but the facts of history clearly reveal that Hillary and the DNC colluded to steal the Democratic nomination.

Poor Bernie got stiffed, and some of his voters picked Trump instead. Crooked Hillary won't tell you that!
The irony is that, Trump is president BECAUSE of the Hildabeast.
05-09-2019 07:35 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
The Dems have only false accusations, and little to no crimes to investigate. That's why they have no teeth.

I doubt Trump is using his office to make money. If so, Mueller would have found it. But I'm sure every wealthy American is vulnerable to tax fraud. Dems ought to be careful, what goes around will come around to bite them too.

The Biden and Clinton families, however, are on record for literally $Billions from Russia and China. We may have more FBI investigations "stealing" the 2020 election from the Dems. But you don't have to believe them.
I always suspected his reticence at releasing his tax returns was less about criminal behavior and more about ego. After all if he is continually trumpeting that he is being audited the IRS would look very shameful if the tax returns reveal criminal behavior.

But, if he has been telling people he is a billionaire, if he has gotten loans based on inflated estimates of wealth and assets, then this could be very tough on him, not just ego wise (no longer invited to party with the rich?) but also his creditors could demand more assets, higher interest rates, or threaten to sue for fraudulent loan applications.
05-08-2019 08:27 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Better than last time. When they had only one ; the Hildabeast.
Actually there were 5 Democratic candidates in 2016.

For 3 years they have been accusing Trump of "stealing" the election, but the facts of history clearly reveal that Hillary and the DNC colluded to steal the Democratic nomination.

Poor Bernie got stiffed, and some of his voters picked Trump instead. Crooked Hillary won't tell you that!
05-08-2019 08:21 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
And they condemned the Republicans for having 17 candidates in 2016 . . .

Better than last time. When they had only one ; the Hildabeast.
05-07-2019 11:49 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

And they condemned the Republicans for having 17 candidates in 2016 . . .

05-07-2019 11:48 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Silly boy. Do you really expect anything out of the demmies? They're all talk no teeth. When in power the pubbies had no will to do anything about Trump -- emoluments -- now the demmies don't either.

Dysfunctional. No checks and balances. We're being duped by Washington. While we have a twitter deranged president,
The Dems have only false accusations, and little to no crimes to investigate. That's why they have no teeth.

I doubt Trump is using his office to make money. If so, Mueller would have found it. But I'm sure every wealthy American is vulnerable to tax fraud. Dems ought to be careful, what goes around will come around to bite them too.

The Biden and Clinton families, however, are on record for literally $Billions from Russia and China. We may have more FBI investigations "stealing" the 2020 election from the Dems. But you don't have to believe them.
05-07-2019 10:10 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Silly boy. Do you really expect anything out of the demmies? They're all talk no teeth. When in power the pubbies had no will to do anything about Trump -- emoluments -- now the demmies don't either.

Dysfunctional. No checks and balances. We're being duped by Washington. While we have a twitter deranged president,
They have no teeth because many of them are also guilty of something. They know it will be quid pro quo. The idea that Trump is some great criminal compared to them is laughable. This is the biggest problem with the whole political system. They just passed a bill concerning climate change. Is it a solution? No. Simply requires that we stay in Paris. Big deal.

If they had any kind of foresight they would be pushing another great leap forward -- fusion.
05-07-2019 08:47 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
So then impeach him. Why are the Democrats such cowards? For two years they have been saying he is guilty of terrible crimes and should be impeached. The whole thing is repulsive. Instead of impeaching him they say "if he were anyone else". Maybe what they should say is "if we were anyone else".
Silly boy. Do you really expect anything out of the demmies? They're all talk no teeth. When in power the pubbies had no will to do anything about Trump -- emoluments -- now the demmies don't either.

Dysfunctional. No checks and balances. We're being duped by Washington. While we have a twitter deranged president,
05-07-2019 01:37 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
News Flash !!!

STATEMENT BY 375 FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTORS

Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice.

https://medium.com/@dojalumni/statem...s-8ab7691c2aa1
Sounds like the situation of James Comey on July 4th weekend of 2016, when he said that "no reasonable prosecutor" would bring charges against Hillary . . .
05-06-2019 07:06 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
News Flash !!!

STATEMENT BY 375 FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTORS

Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice.

https://medium.com/@dojalumni/statem...s-8ab7691c2aa1
So then impeach him. Why are the Democrats such cowards? For two years they have been saying he is guilty of terrible crimes and should be impeached. The whole thing is repulsive. Instead of impeaching him they say "if he were anyone else". Maybe what they should say is "if we were anyone else".
05-06-2019 06:42 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

News Flash !!!

STATEMENT BY 375 FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTORS

Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice.

https://medium.com/@dojalumni/statem...s-8ab7691c2aa1
05-06-2019 12:25 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Two years ago the Democrats decided that they would never support another pro-life candidate.

Today the Democrats have decided to no longer support the nation of Israel, even when under attack.

Not One Democrat Presidential Candidate Defended Israel During Rocket Attacks
Well, if it comes down to it these will be great selling points for the Republicans. Trump has a lot of credibility when he says he'll support Israel and pro life. Therefore he should pick up a large portion of the Christian vote.
05-06-2019 09:01 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Two years ago the Democrats decided that they would never support another pro-life candidate.

Today the Democrats have decided to no longer support the nation of Israel, even when under attack.

Not One Democrat Presidential Candidate Defended Israel During Rocket Attacks
05-05-2019 01:33 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
ZNP, we have now learned that Robert Mueller and his Democratic Staff of Prosecutors long ago learned that there was no evidence of collusion or conspiracy between the Trump Admin and the Russians. Did he not owe it to the American people to provide this much needed information as soon as it became apparent? Did not foreign governments, both friend and foe, need to know this? Was not national security dependent on this?

Yet Team Mueller dragged this out as long as possible. Instead of just focusing on the actual task, rather they spent much time racking up unrelated prosecutions, like a pinball wizard racking up (political) points. Who cares about "collusion," when he can take down the Trumposphere with perjury traps and old tax filings. Many witnesses are now informing us that Team Muller coerced them to "sing and compose." Cohen did, and it neither helped him nor hurt Trump.

Another reason for the delay was to flip the House of Reps. Mueller kept the "cloud of treason" hanging over Trump's head throughout the Midterm elections. Was not this the plan all along? Then, with the Democrats in control, he passed on his investigation to them. Many have called the Mueller Dossier a roadmap for impeachment hearings.

Several things happened to thwart the Mueller Plan . . .
  • Actual investigative journalism exposed FISA abuse, spying, leaking, biased Gov't officials, etc.
  • Senate remained Republican allowing Trump to nominate officials and get them confirmed
  • AG Barr seems immune to Democratic/Media mudslinging
  • Trump says we have had enough of this nonsense
I agree that this was dragged on longer than it should have been. I suspect it could have been closed six months sooner but then both parties would have been calling foul due to the election. I also agree that at this point it seems like a very nasty game of politics and I expect it to blow up in the face of the Democrats. I also agree that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so exposing FISA abuse, biased govt officials, etc are examples of that.
05-05-2019 10:11 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

ZNP, we have now learned that Robert Mueller and his Democratic Staff of Prosecutors long ago learned that there was no evidence of collusion or conspiracy between the Trump Admin and the Russians. Did he not owe it to the American people to provide this much needed information as soon as it became apparent? Did not foreign governments, both friend and foe, need to know this? Was not national security dependent on this?

Yet Team Mueller dragged this out as long as possible. Instead of just focusing on the actual task, rather they spent much time racking up unrelated prosecutions, like a pinball wizard racking up (political) points. Who cares about "collusion," when he can take down the Trumposphere with perjury traps and old tax filings. Many witnesses are now informing us that Team Muller coerced them to "sing and compose." Cohen did, and it neither helped him nor hurt Trump.

Another reason for the delay was to flip the House of Reps. Mueller kept the "cloud of treason" hanging over Trump's head throughout the Midterm elections. Was not this the plan all along? Then, with the Democrats in control, he passed on his investigation to them. Many have called the Mueller Dossier a roadmap for impeachment hearings.

Several things happened to thwart the Mueller Plan . . .
  • Actual investigative journalism exposed FISA abuse, spying, leaking, biased Gov't officials, etc.
  • Senate remained Republican allowing Trump to nominate officials and get them confirmed
  • AG Barr seems immune to Democratic/Media mudslinging
  • Trump says we have had enough of this nonsense
05-03-2019 06:47 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I am not familiar with all of these, but IIRC events like JFK and Watergate were both what I would call "Deep State" operatives. Save for Nixon's paranoia, Watergate was a 2 bit political scandal.
You haven't listened to the tapes. Nixon explains why he can't let one of his henchman take the blame and has to resign himself "because of that whole JFK thing". The guy who ran the Watergate operation was the same CIA operative who ran the JFK assassination. This is why I say Nixon was collateral damage. Also, look at why Gerald Ford was assigned to replace Nixon, the same guy who was on the Warren Commission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Broken Indian treaties and Justification of slavery were, sorry to say, Democratic programs. Jacksonian Democrats perpetuated the worst of these atrocities. Lincoln and his new Republican Party was instrumental to end slavery, but unfortunately Indian Treaties became "western" territorial issues.
I'm sorry but when I read history I do not see any one party having a monopoly on corruption and greed. Do we really need to get into Iran Contra? 911 was clearly done under a Republican administration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Many have said that our worst scandal in history was Watergate, and if that is true, SpyGate is far worse, but that's only because the Media bought into the "single bullet theory."
Watergate was simply the tip of the iceberg.
05-03-2019 01:00 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
So lets trace back -- 911 -- Watergate -- JFK assassination -- Box 13 scandal -- Teapot dome scandal -- Broken Indian treaties -- Justification of slavery -- etc.

When were these politicians law abiding citizens?
I am not familiar with all of these, but IIRC events like JFK and Watergate were both what I would call "Deep State" operatives. Save for Nixon's paranoia, Watergate was a 2 bit political scandal.

Broken Indian treaties and Justification of slavery were, sorry to say, Democratic programs. Jacksonian Democrats perpetuated the worst of these atrocities. Lincoln and his new Republican Party was instrumental to end slavery, but unfortunately Indian Treaties became "western" territorial issues.

Many have said that our worst scandal in history was Watergate, and if that is true, SpyGate is far worse, but that's only because the Media bought into the "single bullet theory."
05-03-2019 09:54 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Back to your question, after one gets lost, the first step is to retrace your steps back to the trail, and identify what went wrong. It seems that AG Barr and other investigators are attempting to do just that -- determine who and what initiated this collusion narrative. Recent reports point to former CIA Director Brennan. Perhaps not. Maybe it was in the "People's House."

The American experiment of governance is predicated on honest, God-fearing, law-abiding, men of integrity. The Founders have acknowledged this. Our "devolved" decline is the result.
So lets trace back -- 911 -- Watergate -- JFK assassination -- Box 13 scandal -- Teapot dome scandal -- Broken Indian treaties -- Justification of slavery -- etc.

When were these politicians law abiding citizens?
05-03-2019 09:40 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Trump says he leaned on God to survive Mueller probe

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...-probe-1298656
05-03-2019 05:24 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
A typical strategy in a case like this is not to catch Trump in collusion since that would be very difficult to prove, but rather in obstruction. It seems clear that the Democrats are very upset that the case for obstruction was not stronger and more solid.

But I am not interested in all that, not interested in those that cry foul, or claims of crookedness, etc. What I would like to know is what is the solution? How do you establish a government of the people, by the people and for the people that does not devolve into this?
Catch Trump in obstruction??? Yes, that was the plan. So first a fake and absurd crime investigation needed to be launched by which Trump people might be caught "obstructing." Flynn was first. They put him at ease, claiming a fact-finding national security issue, deceiving him into waiving his Miranda rights. They set him up, trapped him, and framed him. Success! Not for America, but for their team!

Back to your question, after one gets lost, the first step is to retrace your steps back to the trail, and identify what went wrong. It seems that AG Barr and other investigators are attempting to do just that -- determine who and what initiated this collusion narrative. Recent reports point to former CIA Director Brennan. Perhaps not. Maybe it was in the "People's House."

The American experiment of governance is predicated on honest, God-fearing, law-abiding, men of integrity. The Founders have acknowledged this. Our "devolved" decline is the result.
05-03-2019 04:57 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Athletes like LeBron James epitomize "whining and complaining" to the refs. If Trump only complained and whined about biased Press coverage, then you might have a case.

My case for Trump is not based on that. The case is based on crooked "refs" in the CIA/FBI/NSA/DOJ. I have mentionaed their names. You have mentioned the JFK assassination. Many Christians I know are praying for Trump's safety with that in view. You don't seem to understand what "draining the swamp" entails. Trump is waging a battle on multiple fronts. He must make Americans aware of media bias, he must have active supporters, he must have an honest DOJ/FBI, he must have Congressional support, he must have a loyal staff in the White House, etc. You seem to imply that he asks too much, and ought to be able to do it all alone. Seriously? Try to consider the opposition. Even the Bush clan opposed him.

If Trump were a "dictator" as the Left charges, then he would be able to do everything himself, with fiat and military backing. Fact is, an effective Presidency requires so much more than that. It surprises me that you don't understand that US existence is being undermined by an open border. Anyways, thanks for replying as you did.
A typical strategy in a case like this is not to catch Trump in collusion since that would be very difficult to prove, but rather in obstruction. It seems clear that the Democrats are very upset that the case for obstruction was not stronger and more solid.

But I am not interested in all that, not interested in those that cry foul, or claims of crookedness, etc. What I would like to know is what is the solution? How do you establish a government of the people, by the people and for the people that does not devolve into this?
05-01-2019 04:52 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I applaud Trump for wanting to "drain the swamp" but have been fair in my assessment that his pretense at being a "heavy weight fighter" has to this point only been backed up with whining and complaining about the refs.

I agree that there are some who will twist everything he says to have the worst possible connotation, but that is simply par for the course for a high profile politician. I think some of the comedians have been cruel in their mockery, but I simply turn them off and ignore them.
Athletes like LeBron James epitomize "whining and complaining" to the refs. If Trump only complained and whined about biased Press coverage, then you might have a case.

My case for Trump is not based on that. The case is based on crooked "refs" in the CIA/FBI/NSA/DOJ. I have mentionaed their names. You have mentioned the JFK assassination. Many Christians I know are praying for Trump's safety with that in view. You don't seem to understand what "draining the swamp" entails. Trump is waging a battle on multiple fronts. He must make Americans aware of media bias, he must have active supporters, he must have an honest DOJ/FBI, he must have Congressional support, he must have a loyal staff in the White House, etc. You seem to imply that he asks too much, and ought to be able to do it all alone. Seriously? Try to consider the opposition. Even the Bush clan opposed him.

If Trump were a "dictator" as the Left charges, then he would be able to do everything himself, with fiat and military backing. Fact is, an effective Presidency requires so much more than that. It surprises me that you don't understand that US existence is being undermined by an open border. Anyways, thanks for replying as you did.
05-01-2019 11:20 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
And I could make all sorts of claims about whom you are a puppet of.

These types of accusations serve no purpose.

For 2 years we heard that Trump was a Putin puppet. Then we find it was all a lie. But who then apologizes? And why then are there no consequences for these false accusations from these false witnesses? Or from yours?
Our country is being run by a bunch of scumbags. I thought we avoided that by not electing Hillary. But not.
05-01-2019 09:59 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Without Sessions being conned into recusal, there would be no Mueller. Probably the House would not have flipped in 2018.

ZNP, your views create an enigma of untold proportions. You understand the dangers and corruption of the deep state, perhaps better than 99.9% of the population, yet you still dislike Trump for all his many warts.

Perhaps you are waiting for this perfect ruler to finally take control? Me too.
In my experience it is foolish to ignore glaring deficiencies and lies. I don't know anyone who likes warts.

I would not characterize my opinion of him as "dislike". I like his stance on Israel. I like his stance on abortion. I am indifferent to his desire to "build the wall". And as much as I critique Trump I also critique the Democrats and have been quite critical of them. I have called AOC an idiot, etc.

I applaud Trump for wanting to "drain the swamp" but have been fair in my assessment that his pretense at being a "heavy weight fighter" has to this point only been backed up with whining and complaining about the refs.

I agree that there are some who will twist everything he says to have the worst possible connotation, but that is simply par for the course for a high profile politician. I think some of the comedians have been cruel in their mockery, but I simply turn them off and ignore them.
05-01-2019 09:58 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Barr is a Trump puppet.
And I could make all sorts of claims about whom you are a puppet of.

These types of accusations serve no purpose.

For 2 years we heard that Trump was a Putin puppet. Then we find it was all a lie. But who then apologizes? And why then are there no consequences for these false accusations from these false witnesses? Or from yours?
05-01-2019 07:11 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
If America is going to survive in the 21st century . . . It must learn to laugh at Robert Mueller..
I did! When I saw all the black in the report I busted out laughing. I saw two lying clowns. Barr is a Trump puppet. Like Sarah Huckster Sanders he had to agree to lie for Trump. He can't be trusted.

But the circles of liars gathering ever more -- if it wasn't bad from the get-go -- Black Manafort, and Stone --around Trump is becoming more than a laughing matter.
05-01-2019 03:31 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Recusing himself from an investigation does not mean "you don't have an AG". Second, having a "special prosecutor" does not take away from the work any of the normal prosecutors are doing, hence the Mueller investigation should not have impacted on any investigations that the AG saw fit to pursue, nor did being investigated impact Trump's ability to talk to the AG about other potential investigations.

Yes, when the Box 13 scandal is not dealt with you can be sure the crimes will be ten times worse. When the JFK assassination is not dealt with you can be sure the crimes will be ten times worse. Watergate simply proved that the JFK assassination was not dealt with, Nixon was simply collateral damage from that. When 911 is not properly dealt with you can be sure the crimes will be ten times worse. Which of course is why some people voted for Trump to "drain the swamp". How is anyone surprised that those who would perpetrate 911 would also lie and have the power to control the media? No one is going to think they can get away with 911 unless they control the media.
Without Sessions being conned into recusal, there would be no Mueller. Probably the House would not have flipped in 2018.

ZNP, your views create an enigma of untold proportions. You understand the dangers and corruption of the deep state, perhaps better than 99.9% of the population, yet you still dislike Trump for all his many warts.

Perhaps you are waiting for this perfect ruler to finally take control? Me too.
05-01-2019 03:13 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
*** NEWS FLASH *** *** NEWS FLASH *** *** NEWS FLASH ***

Trump did NOT have an Attorney General his first two years of Presidency.

Jeff Sessions was deceived by Rosenstein into recusing himself when Rosenstein was far more conflicted than he was. Soon Rosenstein will be gone, the report by IG Michael Horowitz will be finished, and A.G. Barr has promised to investigate the origins of the Russian Collusion Delusion with the FBI Spygate scandal.
Recusing himself from an investigation does not mean "you don't have an AG". Second, having a "special prosecutor" does not take away from the work any of the normal prosecutors are doing, hence the Mueller investigation should not have impacted on any investigations that the AG saw fit to pursue, nor did being investigated impact Trump's ability to talk to the AG about other potential investigations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
The swamp will slowly be drained. Many indictments will be handed down. Who knows how far up the food chain it will go, and whether it will include Hillary or Obama. One thing is certain. The crimes here are ten-fold worse than WaterGate ever was.
Yes, when the Box 13 scandal is not dealt with you can be sure the crimes will be ten times worse. When the JFK assassination is not dealt with you can be sure the crimes will be ten times worse. Watergate simply proved that the JFK assassination was not dealt with, Nixon was simply collateral damage from that. When 911 is not properly dealt with you can be sure the crimes will be ten times worse. Which of course is why some people voted for Trump to "drain the swamp". How is anyone surprised that those who would perpetrate 911 would also lie and have the power to control the media? No one is going to think they can get away with 911 unless they control the media.
04-30-2019 09:21 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

If America is going to survive in the 21st century . . . It must learn to laugh at Robert Mueller..
04-30-2019 07:53 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

'The summary letter the Department sent to Congress and released to the public late in the afternoon of March 24 did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance of this office's work and conclusions,' Mueller wrote.

'There is now public confusion about critical aspects of the results of our investigation. This threatens to undermine a central purpose for which the Department appointed the Special Counsel: to assure full public confidence in the outcome of the investigations.'


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...re-report.html
04-30-2019 01:16 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Being in the know is far different than being in the swamp.


*******************************************


It's truly incredible to watch all these haters when they learn that their President was not a Putin Puppet.

It's got to be a little disheartening to wake up and learn that the entire Media has been lying to you . . .

. . . . and you believed them!
No, I believe Trump. His first words when he found out Mueller had been appointed were : "I'm F***ed."

Mueller is not the end, his report is just beginning of that. Or Trump wouldn't be doing all he can to keep it all hidden.

From the housetops is next. Let him who has ears to hear listen up. And that's not you bro Ohio. Your ears are closed ... except to Fox and Breitbart.
04-30-2019 12:02 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Oh! A deep state dude!
Being in the know is far different than being in the swamp.


*******************************************


It's truly incredible to watch all these haters when they learn that their President was not a Putin Puppet.

It's got to be a little disheartening to wake up and learn that the entire Media has been lying to you . . .

. . . . and you believed them!
04-30-2019 12:00 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Then the President of the US (Trump) should instruct his AG to do that.

These are good questions and every US citizen should want them answered. I see no reason why Trump cannot instruct his AG to look into it. One of his campaign slogans was "Lock her up". Hence many people thought that voting for Trump would involve an investigation into Hillary. I would gladly support that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Someone should tell the president so that he could have the AG investigate and then "lock her up" like he promised. Oh, wait, it was on Fox news so Trump does know. Why hasn't he followed through on his promise to "lock her up"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
It seems from all the whining from the Trump camp that Trump was not president these last two years, that he did not have the most powerful Justice department in the world working for him, nor could he follow through on his promise to "lock her up". It seems he wants to blame Clinton for 4 years without actually investigating, indicting and convicting her. Why?

He was elected with the mandate to "drain the swamp" and "lock her up". What has he done?
*** NEWS FLASH *** *** NEWS FLASH *** *** NEWS FLASH ***

Trump did NOT have an Attorney General his first two years of Presidency.

Jeff Sessions was deceived by Rosenstein into recusing himself when Rosenstein was far more conflicted than he was. Soon Rosenstein will be gone, the report by IG Michael Horowitz will be finished, and A.G. Barr has promised to investigate the origins of the Russian Collusion Delusion with the FBI Spygate scandal.

The swamp will slowly be drained. Many indictments will be handed down. Who knows how far up the food chain it will go, and whether it will include Hillary or Obama. One thing is certain. The crimes here are ten-fold worse than WaterGate ever was.
04-30-2019 11:50 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Joseph diGenova is the former U. S. Attorney for the District of Columbia and a former legal counsel to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.
Oh! A deep state dude!
04-30-2019 10:08 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

It seems from all the whining from the Trump camp that Trump was not president these last two years, that he did not have the most powerful Justice department in the world working for him, nor could he follow through on his promise to "lock her up". It seems he wants to blame Clinton for 4 years without actually investigating, indicting and convicting her. Why?

He was elected with the mandate to "drain the swamp" and "lock her up". What has he done?
04-30-2019 10:06 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Joseph diGenova is the former U. S. Attorney for the District of Columbia and a former legal counsel to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. He has also been a frequent commentator on Fox News and Washington’s WMAL Radio. Throughout the Trump-Russia collusion fiasco and Team Mueller’s investigation of the president, diGenova has proven to be a reliable source of information as to what was happening behind the scenes. His pronouncements and predictions have consistently proven to be true.

On April 24, 2019, diGenova appeared on the Ingraham Angle and made his most explosive predictions yet. Here’s the link to the video. What follows below is a partial transcript of his remarks starting at 27 seconds into the broadcast.
It has been evident from day one that there was a brazen plot to exonerate Hillary Clinton illegally, and then, if she lost the election, to frame Donald Trump. This [Steele] dossier was a knowing part of that. It was created by Hillary Clinton. It was created knowingly by [former CIA Director] John Brennan as part of a scheme to do everything they could to harm Donald Trump.

The problem for Brennan and [former Director of National Intelligence] Clapper and [former FBI Director] Comey and [former FBI General Counsel] Baker and all of them now is, is that the FISA Court has already communicated with the Justice Department about its findings. And their findings are that from more than four years before the election of Donald Trump, there was an illegal spying operation going on by FBI [private] contractors — four of them — to steal personal information, electronic information about Americans and to use it against the Republican Party.

There are going to be indictments. There’s going to be grand juries. John Brennan isn’t going to need one lawyer. He’s going to need five!
Someone should tell the president so that he could have the AG investigate and then "lock her up" like he promised. Oh, wait, it was on Fox news so Trump does know. Why hasn't he followed through on his promise to "lock her up"?
04-30-2019 10:04 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Nothing new at the FBI/CIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Obama was in power. They should have investigated him.
Then the President of the US (Trump) should instruct his AG to do that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Why did he do nothing? Why did he not inform the Trump Campaign Team about the Russian activities? Why were Democratic operatives meeting with that Russian lawyer before and after she met with the Trump Campaign officials in that infamous meeting?
These are good questions and every US citizen should want them answered. I see no reason why Trump cannot instruct his AG to look into it. One of his campaign slogans was "Lock her up". Hence many people thought that voting for Trump would involve an investigation into Hillary. I would gladly support that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
ZNP, you really need to get better sources for your info. Your post indicates you are still in a 2016 mindset.

Since when does a prosecutor need to exonerate any American citizen?
The point is when some claim that Mueller's report exonerated Trump that is erroneous. It did not exonerate him, it simply did not advise indicting him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Are we not all INNOCENT by law until proven guilty? Why are you now demanding that Trump be EXONERATED by a prosecutor? Since when does he need to have his innocence proven?
I did not demand that, I simply pointed out that saying the prosecutor exonerated Trump is not accurate. Finding evidence that could convict Trump beyond a reasonable doubt is a much higher standard. They did not meet that standard. That is all that can be concluded.
04-30-2019 08:01 AM
Ohio
Re: Nothing new at the FBI/CIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
How many times do we have to go over this?

Convicted = responsible

Indicted = implicated

Investigation = crime was committed and we want to know if he was involved. It does not imply Trump was responsible. It was predicated on evidence of a crime being committed (no one denies that), that Trump benefitted from that crime (can be debated, but certainly cannot be denied) and that there is a basis to be concerned that Trump might have been involved (meeting, his own comments).

Only an idiot would argue that the US government, realizing their election was hacked by a foreign power, should not investigate.

Mueller's report did not exonerate Trump, it merely showed he was so stupid that he could not have coordinated this. Why do I say he was stupid? He brought the entire investigation on himself. He went on public TV asking Russia to commit a crime, hack the DNC, and then publish that for his benefit. That is the definition of stupidity.
Obama was in power. They should have investigated him. Why did he do nothing? Why did he not inform the Trump Campaign Team about the Russian activities? Why were Democratic operatives meeting with that Russian lawyer before and after she met with the Trump Campaign officials in that infamous meeting?

ZNP, you really need to get better sources for your info. Your post indicates you are still in a 2016 mindset.

Since when does a prosecutor need to exonerate any American citizen? Are we not all INNOCENT by law until proven guilty? Why are you now demanding that Trump be EXONERATED by a prosecutor? Since when does he need to have his innocence proven?
04-30-2019 07:50 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Joseph diGenova is the former U. S. Attorney for the District of Columbia and a former legal counsel to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. He has also been a frequent commentator on Fox News and Washington’s WMAL Radio. Throughout the Trump-Russia collusion fiasco and Team Mueller’s investigation of the president, diGenova has proven to be a reliable source of information as to what was happening behind the scenes. His pronouncements and predictions have consistently proven to be true.

On April 24, 2019, diGenova appeared on the Ingraham Angle and made his most explosive predictions yet. Here’s the link to the video. What follows below is a partial transcript of his remarks starting at 27 seconds into the broadcast.
It has been evident from day one that there was a brazen plot to exonerate Hillary Clinton illegally, and then, if she lost the election, to frame Donald Trump. This [Steele] dossier was a knowing part of that. It was created by Hillary Clinton. It was created knowingly by [former CIA Director] John Brennan as part of a scheme to do everything they could to harm Donald Trump.

The problem for Brennan and [former Director of National Intelligence] Clapper and [former FBI Director] Comey and [former FBI General Counsel] Baker and all of them now is, is that the FISA Court has already communicated with the Justice Department about its findings. And their findings are that from more than four years before the election of Donald Trump, there was an illegal spying operation going on by FBI [private] contractors — four of them — to steal personal information, electronic information about Americans and to use it against the Republican Party.

There are going to be indictments. There’s going to be grand juries. John Brennan isn’t going to need one lawyer. He’s going to need five!
04-30-2019 07:48 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Nothing new at the FBI/CIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Why is Trump responsible for what Russia did, and the Obama people did not stop?
How many times do we have to go over this?

Convicted = responsible

Indicted = implicated

Investigation = crime was committed and we want to know if he was involved. It does not imply Trump was responsible. It was predicated on evidence of a crime being committed (no one denies that), that Trump benefitted from that crime (can be debated, but certainly cannot be denied) and that there is a basis to be concerned that Trump might have been involved (meeting, his own comments).

Only an idiot would argue that the US government, realizing their election was hacked by a foreign power, should not investigate.

Mueller's report did not exonerate Trump, it merely showed he was so stupid that he could not have coordinated this. Why do I say he was stupid? He brought the entire investigation on himself. He went on public TV asking Russia to commit a crime, hack the DNC, and then publish that for his benefit. That is the definition of stupidity. In addition his campaign officials were so stupid they had this very questionable meeting with the Russians, and by that time should have known that either the meeting was bogus or else the Russians were offering something that was obtained criminally. Top level officials were in this meeting and had it in Trump tower. Again, the definition of stupidity. They brought this investigation on themselves.
04-30-2019 07:45 AM
Ohio
Re: Nothing new at the FBI/CIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
With over 10,000 lies since taking office Trump is not only asking for it it, but is begging for it ... #pathological.
Trump said 10,000 times that there was "NO COLLUSION," and after his exhaustive investigation, Muller proved he was right. What is it you don't get?


"And because of this, God sends them an operation of error that they might believe the lie."
04-30-2019 06:24 AM
awareness
Re: Nothing new at the FBI/CIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
If there was "clear" obstruction, they would have arrested Trump for a crime. Instead Muller got to write a dishonest smear report where none of his claims were challenged by Trump in a legal proceeding. Trump had no defense, nor chance to cross-examine. It's too bad you guys never heard of something called "due process."

The Dems used Romney's taxes to smear him, and Obama won a second term. It has nothing to do with breaking laws, because the IRS surely has access to all of Trump's tax info. It's all politics. These people have no principles. They would even use Barron's allowance to smear his dad. Look what the iRS did to the Tea Party.

How does the Trump Admin "obstruct justice" when there was no underlying crime? Look at how they framed Mike Flynn. When did Muller know that there was no collusion? Why did he drag out the investigation thru the mid-term elections in order to affect the elections? Did not Muller do more to interfere with our democratic process than the Russians? Why did the Obama Admin do nothing when the Russians hacked the DNC?

Just watch the next few months. Several investigations will be concluding. Criminal referrals have been made to the DOJ. Hidden things WILL be shouted from the housetops, and it won't be Trumps' business transactions from the last century.
With over 10,000 lies since taking office Trump is not only asking for it it, but is begging for it ... #pathological.
04-30-2019 03:45 AM
Ohio
Re: Nothing new at the FBI/CIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Where is the evidence:

1. Democrats email was hacked by the Russians

2. Russians used Social media to influence the election.
Why is Trump responsible for what Russia did, and the Obama people did not stop?
04-30-2019 03:43 AM
Ohio
Re: Nothing new at the FBI/CIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
The Mueller report clearly shows obstruction. And Trump is still at it. With all his law suits to stop any investigation of his taxes -- breaking a law -- and banking records, he's obstructing because he obviously has something to hide.

But Jesus said it would be shouted from the rooftops.
If there was "clear" obstruction, they would have arrested Trump for a crime. Instead Muller got to write a dishonest smear report where none of his claims were challenged by Trump in a legal proceeding. Trump had no defense, nor chance to cross-examine. It's too bad you guys never heard of something called "due process."

The Dems used Romney's taxes to smear him, and Obama won a second term. It has nothing to do with breaking laws, because the IRS surely has access to all of Trump's tax info. It's all politics. These people have no principles. They would even use Barron's allowance to smear his dad. Look what the iRS did to the Tea Party.

How does the Trump Admin "obstruct justice" when there was no underlying crime? Look at how they framed Mike Flynn. When did Muller know that there was no collusion? Why did he drag out the investigation thru the mid-term elections in order to affect the elections? Did not Muller do more to interfere with our democratic process than the Russians? Why did the Obama Admin do nothing when the Russians hacked the DNC?

Just watch the next few months. Several investigations will be concluding. Criminal referrals have been made to the DOJ. Hidden things WILL be shouted from the housetops, and it won't be Trumps' business transactions from the last century.
04-29-2019 09:31 PM
awareness
Re: Nothing new at the FBI/CIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Where is the evidence:

1. Democrats email was hacked by the Russians

2. Russians used Social media to influence the election.

3. Donald Trump called on the Russians publicly to release Hillary Clinton's emails.

4. High level associates of Donald Trumps election campaign met with Russians who claimed to have incriminating evidence against Hillary Clinton.

To my opinion that is more than enough evidence to warrant an investigation (not an indictment).

Anyone who would not want to investigate knowing that is the one who is drinking Kool Aid.
The Mueller report clearly shows obstruction. And Trump is still at it. With all his law suits to stop any investigation of his taxes -- breaking a law -- and banking records, he's obstructing because he obviously has something to hide.

But Jesus said it would be shouted from the rooftops.
04-29-2019 07:55 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Nothing new at the FBI/CIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Absurd! Have you lost your mind? Sometimes you sound like you been drinking at AOC's bar.

The entire Muller Special Prosecutors Office was PREDICATED on actual evidence of collusion with the Russians. If none exists, then Trump was completely right to be outraged, threaten to fire Muller, call Comey a dirty cop and fire him, etc.

Where's the evidence? Of course what I said was a fair representation of what happened.

They spied on the Trump admin, they attempted to plant spies, they ran a sting operation to setup the Trump staff, they leaked classified info, they claimed evidence existed, they framed Flynn and Papadopolous, etc.
Where is the evidence:

1. Democrats email was hacked by the Russians

2. Russians used Social media to influence the election.

3. Donald Trump called on the Russians publicly to release Hillary Clinton's emails.

4. High level associates of Donald Trumps election campaign met with Russians who claimed to have incriminating evidence against Hillary Clinton.

To my opinion that is more than enough evidence to warrant an investigation (not an indictment).

Anyone who would not want to investigate knowing that is the one who is drinking Kool Aid.
04-29-2019 07:44 AM
Ohio
Re: Nothing new at the FBI/CIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I don't think that is a fair representation of what happened. The Mueller report does not conclude there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Not the same as "ZERO collusion".

In my opinion I think it would be a mistake for the Democrats to press on with impeachment, but I would be sympathetic to those who disagree with that conclusion.
Absurd! Have you lost your mind? Sometimes you sound like you been drinking at AOC's bar.

The entire Muller Special Prosecutors Office was PREDICATED on actual evidence of collusion with the Russians. If none exists, then Trump was completely right to be outraged, threaten to fire Muller, call Comey a dirty cop and fire him, etc.

Where's the evidence? Of course what I said was a fair representation of what happened.

They spied on the Trump admin, they attempted to plant spies, they ran a sting operation to setup the Trump staff, they leaked classified info, they claimed evidence existed, they framed Flynn and Papadopolous, etc.
04-29-2019 05:24 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Nothing new at the FBI/CIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
The Dems had Muller investigate the Trump WH for two years, with millions of documents, hundreds of subpoenas, etc. and they found ZERO collusion.

Obviously, you can't trust the Dems on anything. It kind of makes sense don't it, for those who are willing to slaughter both the unborn and the born, for gain?
I don't think that is a fair representation of what happened. The Mueller report does not conclude there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Not the same as "ZERO collusion".

In my opinion I think it would be a mistake for the Democrats to press on with impeachment, but I would be sympathetic to those who disagree with that conclusion.
04-29-2019 02:12 AM
Ohio
Re: Nothing new at the FBI/CIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Hey I've heard Trump scream voter fraud, and accuse Demmies of collusion.

Seems both brands are tossing it at the other brand.

Like you here.
The Dems had Muller investigate the Trump WH for two years, with millions of documents, hundreds of subpoenas, etc. and they found ZERO collusion.

Obviously, you can't trust the Dems on anything. It kind of makes sense don't it, for those who are willing to slaughter both the unborn and the born, for gain?
04-28-2019 07:13 PM
awareness
Re: Nothing new at the FBI/CIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Yet it's always Democratic operatives who scream "collusion" and "voter fraud" to dissemble misinformation about their own corruption.
Hey I've heard Trump scream voter fraud, and accuse Demmies of collusion.

Seems both brands are tossing it at the other brand.

Like you here.
04-28-2019 07:11 AM
Ohio
Nothing new at the FBI/CIA

Dr. Lee Edwards details how he and his colleagues on Sen. Barry Goldwater’s 1964 campaign for president were under FBI and CIA surveillance ordered by President Lyndon B. Johnson.

Watch how Edwards, then in his early 30s and serving as communications director for the Goldwater campaign, recalls the slow, creeping realization they were being watched and listened to by the free world’s most powerful intelligence services. LBJ also had well-placed spies in the Goldwater Campaign.

Yet it's always Democratic operatives who scream "collusion" and "voter fraud" to dissemble misinformation about their own corruption.
04-26-2019 08:27 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Let's impeach Hillary.
04-26-2019 11:31 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Poor Hillary ...

Let's impeach Hillary.
04-26-2019 09:07 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Poor Hillary ...

04-16-2019 01:29 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

This is from HuffPo so it has to be fake news :

Michele Bachmann Hails ‘Godly’ Trump: We’ll Never See A More Biblical President

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/miche...b098b9a2d91706
04-14-2019 06:39 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Joe can't feel the warm touch of a human anymore, Robert Kraft can't get a rub and tug any more, maybe Joe can give Robert a happy ending, and all can find happiness.
04-14-2019 02:57 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeek View Post
Maybe he'll put his hand on his shoulder and kiss him on the neck.
Yeah, who knows what he will provoke him to do to him.
04-14-2019 02:07 PM
zeek
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Welcome back, Joe!



It seems like both Donald Trump and Joe Biden have become victims of the Bernie Sanders' Left.

Perhaps Trump can offer Joe support, like few others can.
Maybe he'll put his hand on his shoulder and kiss him on the neck.
04-04-2019 01:24 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Welcome back, Joe!



It seems like both Donald Trump and Joe Biden have become victims of the Bernie Sanders' Left.

Perhaps Trump can offer Joe support, like few others can.
03-31-2019 12:32 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
‘Her heart is not in The Bronx’: Ocasio-Cortez’s constituents turn against her

With such an horrific track record, on full display nationally with AOC and Abedin/Weiner, NY Dems ought to try a Republican for a change. Definitely can't get any worse for them.
Hold it, what about Trump and Clinton, they are both NYers.
03-31-2019 06:32 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
AOC

NYers have already found another candidate to challenge AOC. She hasn't been in office for 2 months before the challenge for her seat began.

Dems totall and completely rejected her plan, a big fat public rebuke.

Democratic big contributors are also slamming her.

Again, the best move for her is to cash in on her publicity and start a bar for the disaffected socialists. Give it a happy name suggesting the overconsumption of alcohol -- "The Green Party".

‘Her heart is not in The Bronx’: Ocasio-Cortez’s constituents turn against her

With such an horrific track record, on full display nationally with AOC and Abedin/Weiner, NY Dems ought to try a Republican for a change. Definitely can't get any worse for them.

When will NYers ever learn that the high taxes of Socialism signal the end of the Middle Class.

Will BREXIT become Bronx-Exit as wealthy NYers leave the city-state of NY.
03-31-2019 05:49 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

AOC

NYers have already found another candidate to challenge AOC. She hasn't been in office for 2 months before the challenge for her seat began.

Dems totall and completely rejected her plan, a big fat public rebuke.

Democratic big contributors are also slamming her.

Again, the best move for her is to cash in on her publicity and start a bar for the disaffected socialists. Give it a happy name suggesting the overconsumption of alcohol -- "The Green Party".
03-29-2019 12:07 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I am very angry over the Smollett situation. According to the Bible if a false witness tries to frame someone else for a crime, they should be charged with that crime and get the full penalty possible. Smollett tried to frame MAGA hat wearers with a hate crime. The only righteous response is to try him for a hate crime. Also, he should be given the max penalty that someone else might get had they been convicted of the crime.

Imagine two poor schmucks with MAGA hats who might have been at a bar after 12 getting picked up and convicted for this. They probably would have gotten 5-10 years. Their life in prison would have been hell. The idea that this guy get walk away with a fine and might be able to continue his acting career is outrageous. The idea that this is a "he said, they said" case is baloney. His claim that he was paying for services rendered could easily be verified or refuted. The story of the two men clearly and unequivocally has been verified. If Smollett's account were true it would be incredible, whereas their account is very reasonable. Put him in front of a jury.
In my analysis of the events, both hoaxes -- the Russian collusion and the polar vortex lynching -- are the same. Smollett is Hillary and Trump is that poor schmuck.

Smollett and Hillary were both caught red-handed and publicly excoriated by law enforcement officials. Their guilt was on full display. Smollett by the Chicago Chief of Police and Hillary by Director Comey. Their crimes were made public. But Smollett and Hillary knew people in power -- prosecutors who could over-rule the cops, as in A.G. Lynch with Comey, and Illinois State's Atty. Kim Foxx with the Chicago Police. The root of corruption for both cases is in Chicago.

Behind the scenes in both cases were friends of the Obama's to protect them. There were also unsuspecting victims of the Obama Apparatchik -- directly Trump and that nameless schmuck. But subsequently and collectively in both cases, the endgame was to smear all white "supremacist" conservative straight Christian Republican males. Or anybody with MAGA hats.
03-29-2019 05:30 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I'm more impressed with Kamala Harris who got her best friend Justin Smollett off with a $10K fine and 15 hours community service stuffing envelopes for Jesse Jackson.
I am very angry over the Smollett situation. According to the Bible if a false witness tries to frame someone else for a crime, they should be charged with that crime and get the full penalty possible. Smollett tried to frame MAGA hat wearers with a hate crime. The only righteous response is to try him for a hate crime. Also, he should be given the max penalty that someone else might get had they been convicted of the crime.

Imagine two poor schmucks with MAGA hats who might have been at a bar after 12 getting picked up and convicted for this. They probably would have gotten 5-10 years. Their life in prison would have been hell. The idea that this guy get walk away with a fine and might be able to continue his acting career is outrageous. The idea that this is a "he said, they said" case is baloney. His claim that he was paying for services rendered could easily be verified or refuted. The story of the two men clearly and unequivocally has been verified. If Smollett's account were true it would be incredible, whereas their account is very reasonable. Put him in front of a jury.
03-28-2019 04:14 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I'm more impressed with Kamala Harris who got her best friend Justin Smollett off with a $10K fine and 15 hours community service stuffing envelopes for Jesse Jackson.
Whoa! I mean Whoa! She is singing my song! No one says a bad word about Kamala!
03-28-2019 03:48 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I was impressed that she made close to $250,000 and only paid about 1/10th of that in taxes.
I'm more impressed with Kamala Harris who got her best friend Justin Smollett off with a $10K fine and 15 hours community service stuffing envelopes for Jesse Jackson.
03-28-2019 02:41 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Explain? You know her better than I.
I was impressed that she made close to $250,000 and only paid about 1/10th of that in taxes.
03-28-2019 07:46 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
If we are talking about lack of appreciation, what about Gillibrand. I'd like her to do my taxes. Her talents are being wasted in congress.
Explain? You know her better than I.

She has flip-flopped on many issues. Each 2020 hopeful is fighting to become the LEFT-most of all.

Poor Joe Biden is now apologizing for being old, for being white, and for being a man. Such conviction!
03-28-2019 05:57 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I'm sure there's money in the future for AOC. Too bad she got a degree from a prestigious university, with all that debt, and never learned a thing about economics, business, or life in general. Her downfall was not just stupidity, but hypocrisy. She'll marry some rich Democrat and live out her life promoting misguided causes. She'll begin 2020 with a book deal. Maybe run for mayor like Weiner.

And btw, people never give Donald Trump enough credit for his convictions against alcohol and drugs. That's one of the things Evangelicals / conservatives respect. Trump works tirelessly to protect Americans against its dangers. Love him or hate him, that's what Trump is now all about. Protecting Americans. Build the wall!
If we are talking about lack of appreciation, what about Gillibrand. I'd like her to do my taxes. Her talents are being wasted in congress.
03-28-2019 05:42 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Too soon to laugh, could be a brilliant plan to promote a new bar, "The green deal" where you can go and complain about capitalism while you get drunk. Besides, owning a bar could be much more profitable to her than being a congresswoman. She could put it in the neighborhood that didn't get the Amazon.com business, probably a lot of unemployed people who want to go somewhere, get drunk, and complain.
I'm sure there's money in the future for AOC. Too bad she got a degree from a prestigious university, with all that debt, and never learned a thing about economics, business, or life in general. Her downfall was not just stupidity, but hypocrisy. She'll marry some rich Democrat and live out her life promoting misguided causes. She'll begin 2020 with a book deal. Maybe run for mayor like Weiner.

And btw, people never give Donald Trump enough credit for his convictions against alcohol and drugs. That's one of the things Evangelicals / conservatives respect. Trump works tirelessly to protect Americans against its dangers. Love him or hate him, that's what Trump is now all about. Protecting Americans. Build the wall!
03-28-2019 05:06 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
She got them all thinking about life without hamburgers, three times a day.

Even the Democrats have turned on her. Not a single vote for her "groundbreaking" legislation.
Too soon to laugh, could be a brilliant plan to promote a new bar, "The green deal" where you can go and complain about capitalism while you get drunk. Besides, owning a bar could be much more profitable to her than being a congresswoman. She could put it in the neighborhood that didn't get the Amazon.com business, probably a lot of unemployed people who want to go somewhere, get drunk, and complain.
03-28-2019 04:23 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I tell you what, this AOC is doing a great job fund raising for the GOP.
She got them all thinking about life without hamburgers, three times a day.

Even the Democrats have turned on her. Not a single vote for her "groundbreaking" legislation.
03-27-2019 09:00 PM
zeek
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I tell you what, this AOC is doing a great job fund raising for the GOP.
Kinda like what Obama did for gun sales when he was Pres?
03-27-2019 05:22 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

I tell you what, this AOC is doing a great job fund raising for the GOP.
03-27-2019 09:23 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I suppose only a Trump Tat is missing!
Fake news opportunity! Make an April Fools press release about a tattoo parlor giving out Trump Tats for free as a Grand Opening Sale, and show a long line of MAGA hatted people. You will probably make the 6:30 news.
03-27-2019 08:48 AM
zeek
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
The Lord commanded us to love our neighbors.

Only with God are such things possible.
03-26-2019 08:14 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I will concede that the two operations were both handled with comparable hardware reflecting the importance the democrats placed on them for their own future success. It may be that ever since Carter and Dukakis they don't want to mess up these operations and appear weak.

That said I can understand SWAT being concerned about a guy with a large tattoo of Nixon, obviously unstable.
What? That explains everything. Who would do such a thing?

Takes Tattoo's to another level! Kind of freaky. Not a bad resemblance though. He even has a Nixon bong! Probably was using it at the time.




I suppose only a Trump Tat is missing!
03-26-2019 06:46 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
The Lord commanded us to love our neighbors.

Only with God are such things possible.

Stealth Helicopters broke down because of Obama's Sequestration. Some were abandoned in Pakistan.

So they drove new ELECTRI-SWAT Hum-Vee's to Stone's place and charged them while he got his pajamas on.
I will concede that the two operations were both handled with comparable hardware reflecting the importance the democrats placed on them for their own future success. It may be that ever since Carter and Dukakis they don't want to mess up these operations and appear weak.

That said I can understand SWAT being concerned about a guy with a large tattoo of Nixon, obviously unstable.
03-26-2019 03:55 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I'm sorry, didn't realize you lived in a drug den.
The Lord commanded us to love our neighbors.

Only with God are such things possible.

Quote:
That's not true, they had two very sophisticated stealth helicopters. Where were the helicopters in the Stone arrest?
Stealth Helicopters broke down because of Obama's Sequestration. Some were abandoned in Pakistan.

So they drove new ELECTRI-SWAT Hum-Vee's to Stone's place and charged them while he got his pajamas on.
03-26-2019 03:12 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
And you have just bought into the deception. It goes like this . . .

My next door neighbor went to jail for drugs and gun charges resulting from an opioid addiction. Then some hater comes along and casts suspicions on my reputation saying, "these allegations must be true especially given the proclivity of Ohio's neighbors to commit felonies."

There you have it, folks! Time to leak another story about Ohio to the Press!
I'm sorry, didn't realize you lived in a drug den.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Take Manafort for example, who apparently was Muller's biggest "prize." Manafort was convicted of tax fraud for 15 years before he ever worked for Trump. During "normal" times, IRS auditors force tax cheats like Manafort to pay back taxes, along with substantial penalties and interest. No reason to crowd the prisons, folks, when the IRS can give out extra bonus checks.
Good thing his friend is President of the US who has the power to pardon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
How is Trump supposed to vet someone like Manafort who has issues with back taxes? Manafort worked with the Podesta brothers for years, and came on board with campaign experience. Trump never had the well-slicked apparatus that Hillary had, and he bungled thru numerous miscues. Every new business has the same issues. Do you think the Podesta's paid all of their taxes? Any CPA can tell you that every business owner can be audited knowing how complicated tax law is.
Hence my point that I don't want congress to be able to do these special prosecutor investigations of presidents unless it is a matter central to the US govt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I'm all for people paying their taxes. But lets apply the law fairly. Blind justice eh? How about Roger Stone? 21 agents with night vision and automatic weapons to wake him in a pre-dawn raid? They took out Osama Bin Hiding with less tactical gear!
That's not true, they had two very sophisticated stealth helicopters. Where were the helicopters in the Stone arrest?
03-26-2019 02:55 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
He is a real estate developer, pretty sure you'll find more than jaywalking, especially given the proclivity of his associates to commit felonies.
And you have just bought into the deception. It goes like this . . .

My next door neighbor went to jail for drugs and gun charges resulting from an opioid addiction. Then some hater comes along and casts suspicions on my reputation saying, "these allegations must be true especially given the proclivity of Ohio's neighbors to commit felonies."

There you have it, folks! Time to leak another story about Ohio to the Press!

Take Manafort for example, who apparently was Muller's biggest "prize." Manafort was convicted of tax fraud for 15 years before he ever worked for Trump. During "normal" times, IRS auditors force tax cheats like Manafort to pay back taxes, along with substantial penalties and interest. No reason to crowd the prisons, folks, when the IRS can give out extra bonus checks.

How is Trump supposed to vet someone like Manafort who has issues with back taxes? Manafort worked with the Podesta brothers for years, and came on board with campaign experience. Trump never had the well-slicked apparatus that Hillary had, and he bungled thru numerous miscues. Every new business has the same issues. Do you think the Podesta's paid all of their taxes? Any CPA can tell you that every business owner can be audited knowing how complicated tax law is.

I'm all for people paying their taxes. But lets apply the law fairly. Blind justice eh? How about Roger Stone? 21 agents with night vision and automatic weapons to wake him in a pre-dawn raid? They took out Osama Bin Hiding with less tactical gear!
03-26-2019 02:21 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry View Post
That's the direction the house of Representatives will be taking the next two years. Try to dig up dirt on President Trump through various committees. Surely if they go back far enough, there is bound to be jaywalking in there somewhere. But at what cost?
He is a real estate developer, pretty sure you'll find more than jaywalking, especially given the proclivity of his associates to commit felonies.

I am not in any way suggesting that if Trump were investigated thoroughly we wouldn't find actions that were embarrassing.

What I am saying is I don't want this to be part of the gauntlet every President has to run, a 2 year special counsel investigation with a price tag above $10 million.
03-26-2019 02:14 PM
Weighingin
Re: Politics and the Church

They are always coming up with allegations or
presenting things that look like Trump or family
members have done bad stuff. It always seem
to come to nothing. So they will continue this
and save “bomb shells” as it is close to election
similiar to the Kavanaugh caper.
03-26-2019 11:56 AM
Terry
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Good question! Clinton? Obama?

And what about that not-so-secretive Congressional "Slush Fund" to pay off the victims of sexual abuse.
By the time Obama left office his wealth was estimate at 20 million. Based on presidential salary alone it would have been 3.2 million.
Mr No Name his wealth was estimated around 200 million before passing last August.
Former Speaker Ryan in the tens of millions
Senator Feinstein much the same in the tens of millions.
I think the question is who isn't a millionaire? I was surprised to learn Senator Graham wasn't. As for the newcomers to senate and the house, give them a term or two and they'll become millionaires in hardly any time at all.
03-26-2019 11:51 AM
Terry
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
It is not simply a matter of national security. Do we really want Congress to authorize a $12 million dollar investigation with no other national interest other than to try and dig dirt on a political rival. If they allow that then you can be sure congress will devolve into a mud slinging contest. Doesn't matter who gets elected to what.

Think about Kavanaugh. If the woman had a concern she should definitely have brought it to the committee, but if it was simply "he said, she said" without any additional evidence it should have been done closed door and not become the circus that it did.

This entire investigation appears to be payback for Whitewater, which in turn appears to have been payback for Watergate.
That's the direction the house of Representatives will be taking the next two years. Try to dig up dirt on President Trump through various committees. Surely if they go back far enough, there is bound to be jaywalking in there somewhere. But at what cost?
03-25-2019 01:05 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry View Post
If there's no matters of national security to protect, for transparency sake it should be. What's in the dark should be brought into the light.
However if there's still nothing to be seen, I would expect the House Majority not to be satisfied. The next two years will be spent with investigation after investigation. Collusion has now pivoted to obstruction. Even then where's the obstruction.
Do you want to continue going down the road of making tax returns an issue? I'd sure like to see it for all of congress. How do politicians with a $170,000+ a year salary parlay that into becoming multi millionaires?
Good question! Clinton? Obama?

And what about that not-so-secretive Congressional "Slush Fund" to pay off the victims of sexual abuse.
03-25-2019 01:01 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Is there some divine justice here?

At the same time Trump is with P.M. Netanyahu recognizing the Golan Heights, creepy porn lawyer Michael Avenatti is busted for attempting to extort $Millions from Nike over the pay-to-play "Varsity Blues" scandal. Many of those indicted in the scandal, like Felicity Huffman, were vocal critics of Trump.

Pretty incredible turn of events to fulfill Jehovah's prophetic words:
"I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you." -- Genesis 12:3
03-25-2019 12:29 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry View Post
If there's no matters of national security to protect, for transparency sake it should be. What's in the dark should be brought into the light.
However if there's still nothing to be seen, I would expect the House Majority not to be satisfied. The next two years will be spent with investigation after investigation. Collusion has now pivoted to obstruction. Even then where's the obstruction.
Do you want to continue going down the road of making tax returns an issue? I'd sure like to see it for all of congress. How do politicians with a $170,000+ a year salary parlay that into becoming multi millionaires?
It is not simply a matter of national security. Do we really want Congress to authorize a $12 million dollar investigation with no other national interest other than to try and dig dirt on a political rival. If they allow that then you can be sure congress will devolve into a mud slinging contest. Doesn't matter who gets elected to what.

Think about Kavanaugh. If the woman had a concern she should definitely have brought it to the committee, but if it was simply "he said, she said" without any additional evidence it should have been done closed door and not become the circus that it did.

This entire investigation appears to be payback for Whitewater, which in turn appears to have been payback for Watergate.
03-25-2019 12:09 PM
Terry
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeek View Post
William Barr has given us his own spin on Mueller's report. He should release it to the American people so that we can make up our own minds. Even from what he gave us, Mueller did not exonerate Trump on the obstruction of justice issue. Of course Trump has already lied about that saying that the report was a complete and total exoneration. Anyway I'm withholding judgment till I actually get a chance to read the report for myself. If Barr won't release it I assume he's hiding something to protect Trump
If there's no matters of national security to protect, for transparency sake it should be. What's in the dark should be brought into the light.
However if there's still nothing to be seen, I would expect the House Majority not to be satisfied. The next two years will be spent with investigation after investigation. Collusion has now pivoted to obstruction. Even then where's the obstruction.
Do you want to continue going down the road of making tax returns an issue? I'd sure like to see it for all of congress. How do politicians with a $170,000+ a year salary parlay that into becoming multi millionaires?
03-25-2019 07:16 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeek View Post
William Barr has given us his own spin on Mueller's report. He should release it to the American people so that we can make up our own minds. Even from what he gave us, Mueller did not exonerate Trump on the obstruction of justice issue. Of course Trump has already lied about that saying that the report was a complete and total exoneration. Anyway I'm withholding judgment till I actually get a chance to read the report for myself. If Barr won't release it I assume he's hiding something to protect Trump
The Democrats are in power, Congress ordered the investigation, they should have complete access to the report and to Mueller. However, just like the fiasco with Kavanaugh, I don't agree with the total report being made public. If the Democrats see something that is "impeachable" then pursue it and that will be released to the public. If they see something that is indictable once he is no longer president then pursue that when he is no longer president. But if they begin with a goal of looking for collusion and then turn it into an opportunity to throw mud, that would be a very ugly use of taxpayer money akin to the McCarthy hearings.
03-25-2019 06:53 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeek View Post
William Barr has given us his own spin on Mueller's report. He should release it to the American people so that we can make up our own minds. Even from what he gave us, Mueller did not exonerate Trump on the obstruction of justice issue. Of course Trump has already lied about that saying that the report was a complete and total exoneration. Anyway I'm withholding judgment till I actually get a chance to read the report for myself. If Barr won't release it I assume he's hiding something to protect Trump
You clamored on Mueller's behalf for months. If Muller had evidence of obstruction of justice against Trump, he would have filed charges. Now that it came out, you still are not satisfied.

Let me guarantee that when Barr releases more information, you won't be satisfied with that either.

You have believed a mountain of lies, my friend, from the media. I have been trying to tell you that for months. Perhaps you might have listened were I not one of those dreaded "evangelical Christians." Perhaps not.

What Muller did, by not exonerating Trump, is prosecutorial misconduct. Muller and his team, especially Andrew Weissman, have a long history of such misconduct. Don't believe me, look into it for yourself.
03-25-2019 06:20 AM
zeek
Re: Politics and the Church

William Barr has given us his own spin on Mueller's report. He should release it to the American people so that we can make up our own minds. Even from what he gave us, Mueller did not exonerate Trump on the obstruction of justice issue. Of course Trump has already lied about that saying that the report was a complete and total exoneration. Anyway I'm withholding judgment till I actually get a chance to read the report for myself. If Barr won't release it I assume he's hiding something to protect Trump
03-25-2019 05:27 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

The Democrats are in a very weak position. Many ran on a platform of examining, prosecuting, and impeaching Trump. If they do not fulfill that promise they will completely turn off those that voted for them.

On the other hand the more they pursue a political agenda of mud slinging the more the swing voters will despise the Democrats.

It is a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.
03-24-2019 05:38 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Mueller Was Trump’s Nemesis—Now He’s His Greatest Asset
03-24-2019 05:10 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Based on what I have seen so far, I don't think that would be a safe bet for you.
I was being facetious. It looks like political mudslinging about to go ballistic.
03-24-2019 04:29 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Wow, I bet all those people who were so sure that Mueller was going to find something, even if he had to make something up, bet they feel pretty sheepish now.
Based on what I have seen so far, I don't think that would be a safe bet for you.
03-24-2019 02:44 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Mueller's report concludes that there is no evidence that Trump's campaign colluded with the Russians.

Wow, I bet all those people who were so sure that Mueller was going to find something, even if he had to make something up, bet they feel pretty sheepish now.

I am happy. I suspect the great secret in Trump's tax return is that he is not nearly as wealthy as he claims and that could jeopardize some of his loans with his banks. I feel better knowing that we checked to see if there was some kind of collusion and I am relieved there wasn't.

As for political fallout I will reserve that for whatever the Democrats do over the next 2 years.
03-22-2019 02:29 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I find the continual media claim that "Trump is dividing the country" to be both laughable and disingenuous.

This single most divisive issue of this generation is the Democrats unceasing support for unlimited abortions. The new Chair of the DNC Perez even stated their Party would never again support a pro-life candidate. It is the protection of the most vulnerable members of society that divides us.

Since Roe was thrust upon us, I have never nor would I ever vote for a Democratic candidate, regardless of how qualified he/she was, or how bad the Republican candidate was. It's all about principle for me, and if the slaughter of the unborn doesn't bother a candidate, that's quite telling to me about his/her character. In this regard I am definitely not alone.
I agree with this.
03-22-2019 09:18 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I also found it shocking to think that only now, with Trump, are Evangelical Christians being represented even though they represent the single biggest block of voters in this country. The assertion that there is something wrong with a very large block of voters being represented in a democracy is an astounding assertion from Zeek.
I find the continual media claim that "Trump is dividing the country" to be both laughable and disingenuous.

This single most divisive issue of this generation is the Democrats unceasing support for unlimited abortions. The new Chair of the DNC Perez even stated their Party would never again support a pro-life candidate. It is the protection of the most vulnerable members of society that divides us.

Since Roe was thrust upon us, I have never nor would I ever vote for a Democratic candidate, regardless of how qualified he/she was, or how bad the Republican candidate was. It's all about principle for me, and if the slaughter of the unborn doesn't bother a candidate, that's quite telling to me about his/her character. In this regard I am definitely not alone.
03-22-2019 06:05 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
One thing that continually amazes me about Trump is that all the opposition only deepens his resolve to stay true to his convictions. All recent Presidents (Clinton, Bush, Obama) gave lip service to their support of Israel, e.g. moving our Embassy to Jerusalem, only to wilt when faced with the actual decision.
That is an accurate assessment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Once again zeek puts himself at odds with Evangelical Christians, going so far as to suggest that support for Trump is racially motivated.

I would suggest to the contrary, that Evangelical Christian support for Trump is based on his policies. Evangelical Christians, like myself, were highly skeptical of Trump's conservatism until he put forth his source list for SCOTUS nominations. Never have I seen a President (since Ronald Reagan) fight so hard for the security and safety of the American people, especially at the Southern border.
I also found it shocking to think that only now, with Trump, are Evangelical Christians being represented even though they represent the single biggest block of voters in this country. The assertion that there is something wrong with a very large block of voters being represented in a democracy is an astounding assertion from Zeek.
03-22-2019 05:33 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeek View Post
Pompeo suggests God sent Trump to save Israel
"As a Christian, I certainly believe that's possible," the secretary of state said when asked whether the president had an explicitly divine mission. "I am confident that the Lord is at work here."
One thing that continually amazes me about Trump is that all the opposition only deepens his resolve to stay true to his convictions. All recent Presidents (Clinton, Bush, Obama) gave lip service to their support of Israel, e.g. moving our Embassy to Jerusalem, only to wilt when faced with the actual decision.

Quote:
Trump's recognition of Israel's Sovereignty over the Golan Heights was a smart political move since the largest constituency of his base are white Evangelical Christians who favor Zionism because of the way they read Bible prophesies.
Once again zeek puts himself at odds with Evangelical Christians, going so far as to suggest that support for Trump is racially motivated.

I would suggest to the contrary, that Evangelical Christian support for Trump is based on his policies. Evangelical Christians, like myself, were highly skeptical of Trump's conservatism until he put forth his source list for SCOTUS nominations. Never have I seen a President (since Ronald Reagan) fight so hard for the security and safety of the American people, especially at the Southern border.
03-22-2019 05:25 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Mexicans Are Stealing Border Wall Materials, Using Them For Home Security

This doesn't make sense, if Mexico is paying for the wall how can this be stealing?
03-21-2019 10:11 PM
zeek
Re: Politics and the Church

Pompeo suggests God sent Trump to save Israel
"As a Christian, I certainly believe that's possible," the secretary of state said when asked whether the president had an explicitly divine mission. "I am confident that the Lord is at work here."

Trump's recognition of Israel's Sovereignty over the Golan Heights was a smart political move since the largest constituency of his base are white Evangelical Christians who favor Zionism because of the way they read Bible prophesies.


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...israel-n986136
03-21-2019 11:12 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

BREAKING NEWS: Trump says U.S. should recognize Golan Heights as part of Israel as Netanyahu accuses Iran of trying to set up terror network there — and prepares for White House visit Monday

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ts-Israel.html
03-21-2019 07:37 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
You talk like all Christians are perfect. Or, they can sin, confess, do it again and confess, do it again and confess, over and over again.

You speak like a true Catholic.
You talk like non Christians are "better Christians"?!
03-21-2019 07:19 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Never thought I would see "Christians" standing up for Buddha idols.

I guess that's what we get when some posters love to read their anti-Christian rags.

And "some Buddhists act more Christian ..." awareness, have you really made this your life goal -- to point out Christian "bad behavior?"

Being a Christian is to acknowledge your own bad behavior.
You talk like all Christians are perfect. Or, they can sin, confess, do it again and confess, do it again and confess, over and over again.

You speak like a true Catholic. But aren't they 50% dreaded liberals?
03-21-2019 04:59 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Robertson is either ignorant or his religious prejudices have gotten the better of him. Buddha never claimed to be a god. Buddha wasn't a Jesus, a Savior figure, or anything like that.

In fact, he's wasn't even smart. It took him 30 odd years to realize that life is a suffering. Other than that, I think Jesus and Siddhārtha Gautama would get along just fine. And ironically some Buddhists act more Christian than some fanatic self righteous Christians ... of which, from what I've seen out of Robertson over the years, includes him.
Never thought I would see "Christians" standing up for Buddha idols.

I guess that's what we get when some posters love to read their anti-Christian rags.

And "some Buddhists act more Christian ..." awareness, have you really made this your life goal -- to point out Christian "bad behavior?"

Being a Christian is to acknowledge your own bad behavior.
03-21-2019 04:45 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeek View Post
Here is a sample of the LCM teaching on politics and the church:




According to Nee the Bible teaches that it is wrong for a Christian to hold political office. So, professing Christians should not run for or hold public office or work for the government. The business of government should be left to unbelievers.

I worked for the State of Florida for 37 years. It never occurred to me that I was acting unchristian. How about that?
Robertson is either ignorant or his religious prejudices have gotten the better of him. Buddha never claimed to be a god. Buddha wasn't a Jesus, a Savior figure, or anything like that. -- Awareness referencing Post by Zeek

I thought this thread was about the NT teaching concerning Christians working in government. If the thread is about what it means to "Act unchristian" shouldn't that be a different thread? What does Robertson's views on idolatry have to do with this thread?
03-20-2019 09:33 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeek View Post
Meanwhile in the demon haunted world...

http://deadstate.org/pat-robertson-y...rses-upon-you/
Quote:
Originally Posted by From Article
“But nevertheless, a statue of a false god in your garden — I don’t think that’s appropriate,” Robertson said. “Yes, it’ll bring curses upon you, alright?”
Robertson is either ignorant or his religious prejudices have gotten the better of him. Buddha never claimed to be a god. Buddha wasn't a Jesus, a Savior figure, or anything like that.

In fact, he's wasn't even smart. It took him 30 odd years to realize that life is a suffering. Other than that, I think Jesus and Siddhārtha Gautama would get along just fine. And ironically some Buddhists act more Christian than some fanatic self righteous Christians ... of which, from what I've seen out of Robertson over the years, includes him.
03-20-2019 08:54 PM
zeek
Re: Politics and the Church

Meanwhile in the demon-haunted world...

http://deadstate.org/pat-robertson-y...rses-upon-you/
03-19-2019 06:07 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Perhaps AOC now only cares that she speaks for Millennial Socialists.
Well let's see if NY continues to pay for her to speak for them at the next election.
03-19-2019 05:19 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
The Siena College poll of registered voters in New York state found that 67 percent of those surveyed said the internet retailer's decision last month was detrimental to New York.

AOC does not speak for New Yorkers. Let this marinate for another year and let's see if anyone votes for her again.
Perhaps AOC now only cares that she speaks for Millennial Socialists.
03-19-2019 05:17 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
You are obviously confusing me with someone else.

However, I disagree with the idea that they were "never given an opportunity for peace". Peacemakers are likened to "sons of God". It is a very difficult thing to do, just ask Nelson Mandela. They have an opportunity today for peace.
Perhaps you are mistaken to believe that all such "peace" is of God?

The peacemakers in Matt 5 are likened to "sons of God," that is true. This message is to the church, to us as brothers of our heavenly Father.

But His message to Israel in not the same, especially with those sworn to destroy them. Israel abides by the Law and the Prophets. We abide by the Gospels and the Epistles.
03-19-2019 01:37 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

The Siena College poll of registered voters in New York state found that 67 percent of those surveyed said the internet retailer's decision last month was detrimental to New York.

AOC does not speak for New Yorkers. Let this marinate for another year and let's see if anyone votes for her again.
03-19-2019 01:36 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Exactly. Proving that Israel was never given the opportunity for peace. Their only chance for peace was to all die, as they did in Poland at Nazi furnaces.

Terrorism existed in Israel long before Yes Sir Arafat came along with the PLO. There have been insiders working with foreign powers since the days of the first Zionist Kibbutzim early in the 20th century.

Go read the whole story please.

And Israel has every right to build their new temple on the site of the original temple.
You are obviously confusing me with someone else.

However, I disagree with the idea that they were "never given an opportunity for peace". Peacemakers are likened to "sons of God". It is a very difficult thing to do, just ask Nelson Mandela. They have an opportunity today for peace.
03-19-2019 12:23 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
The PLO does not represent all Palestinians and did not exist in 1948. It was founded in 1964. The use of terrorism didn't begin until it was clear they were not going to overpower Israel.

When the Jews were given Israel by the UN there was no mention of kicking out the inhabitants or making them non citizens. Allowing everyone to continue living there as citizens was an option, it could have happened and had they known the way of peace they might have avoided 70+ years of war, terrorism, and bloodshed. However, the choice for war was first made by the Palestinians who did not want to share the land with the Jews.
Exactly. Proving that Israel was never given the opportunity for peace. Their only chance for peace was to all die, as they did in Poland at Nazi furnaces.

Terrorism existed in Israel long before Yes Sir Arafat came along with the PLO. There have been insiders working with foreign powers since the days of the first Zionist Kibbutzim early in the 20th century.

Go read the whole story please.

And Israel has every right to build their new temple on the site of the original temple.
03-19-2019 10:19 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Had they "shared their country" as you suggest, they would now have rocket launchers on the balconies in Tel Aviv.

If there is one lesson that Israel has learned during her long history, it's that there can be no negotiations with terrorists. The PLO was a terrorist organization only to be replaced by Hamas, something far worse. Where is the condemnation on Iran for being the worst state sponsor of terror? Today Lebanon, Syria, Gaza, and the West Bank are not run by Palestinians, but by the Ayatollah of Iran.
The PLO does not represent all Palestinians and did not exist in 1948. It was founded in 1964. The use of terrorism didn't begin until it was clear they were not going to overpower Israel.

When the Jews were given Israel by the UN there was no mention of kicking out the inhabitants or making them non citizens. Allowing everyone to continue living there as citizens was an option, it could have happened and had they known the way of peace they might have avoided 70+ years of war, terrorism, and bloodshed. However, the choice for war was first made by the Palestinians who did not want to share the land with the Jews.
03-19-2019 09:22 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Then I guess you are happy that we have made Israel one of the most powerful nations in the world, even letting them have nukes.
Happy? False conclusion. As usual.

I long for the day coming soon when all nukes will be gone, eliminated by the King of kings.
Quote:
No, before the British Mandate the Palestinians were there for 900 years. More than once I've showed the maps of Israel taking more and more land since 1948. As I stated, they follow their Torah to claim the land, but ignore the Torah when it says love God and your neighbor.
The Palestinian Muslams stole the land of Israel by slaughtering her original inhabitants. They even build their Mosques on the ruins of her Temple.

Sorry bro, but you never seem to mention all the good that Israel does for the Palestinians. You ought to read those stories too. But you won't find these stories in your British rags, like Daily Mail.

Since you don't like the way Jacksonian Democrats drove Native Indians from their lands, you should be doubly upset with what these Muslams did to the original inhabitants of Judea and Jerusalem.
Quote:
There's not one bad side and one good side. Both sides have both. If all 1.2 billion Muslims were bad we, and Israel, would be in big trouble. Not all Muslims are bad, and not all Jews are good ... and neither are all Christians, so called.
If I break into your house and attack you, and you then beat me up, are we now both bad?

Ever hear of something called the right of self-defense?
03-19-2019 09:01 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
It's Israel who is trapped behind walls. Walls they had to build to keep murdering animals out. But the walls have doors for good people.

The Palestinians are connected to 2 Billion Muslims who hate Israel, and who have vowed to exterminate them all. The U.N. is filled with Muslam countries, and is very anti-Israel. So I would say that Muslams have all the power. Israel is just a spec on the map surrounded by a sea of enemies.
Then I guess you are happy that we have made Israel one of the most powerful nations in the world, even letting them have nukes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Palestine belongs to Israel because they had it for thousands of years.
No, before the British Mandate the Palestinians were there for 900 years. More than once I've showed the maps of Israel taking more and more land since 1948. As I stated, they follow their Torah to claim the land, but ignore the Torah when it says love God and your neighbor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
The Gaza Muslams are occupying their land just as Istanbul Muslams are occupying Constantinople in Asia Minor, the long-time center of Orthodox Christianity. Today Muslams are illegally occupying all the Bible lands once owned by Christians. They stole the lands and murdered its occupants. Case in point was the Turkish genocide of Armenia, the first Christian country.
There's not one bad side and one good side. Both sides have both. If all 1.2 billion Muslims were bad we, and Israel, would be in big trouble. Not all Muslims are bad, and not all Jews are good ... and neither are all Christians, so called.
03-19-2019 08:48 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
In 1948 the Palestinians could have made a wonderful peace treaty in which they completely shared Israel as equals. Instead they chose to fight. It seemed at the time that Israel would not have a chance. All the way to 1967 the Palestinians seemed to have an overwhelming position, Israel surrounded by enemies more powerful than them. The Palestinians should have chosen to be reconciled, but they chose violence.

Today Israel is in the overwhelming position, this is the best opportunity for them to have a negotiated reconciliation, but instead they have taken the same route as the Palestinians. To be fully fair to the Israelis they could point out that if they did negotiate peace there would still be terrorists who were not happy with the outcome. But the Palestinians were in that same boat in 1948.
Had they "shared their country" as you suggest, they would now have rocket launchers on the balconies in Tel Aviv.

If there is one lesson that Israel has learned during her long history, it's that there can be no negotiations with terrorists. The PLO was a terrorist organization only to be replaced by Hamas, something far worse. Where is the condemnation on Iran for being the worst state sponsor of terror? Today Lebanon, Syria, Gaza, and the West Bank are not run by Palestinians, but by the Ayatollah of Iran.
03-19-2019 07:55 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Yeah, love your neighbor. Trap them in in Gaza, and pluck them off at will, even killing children. That's the way to treat them neighborly.

That's not propaganda. And by the way, you prove my point. Say something for the Palestinians and you are against Israel. I don't know, but, you must be a Christian Zionist.

And I'm for both the Palestinians and Israel. There's wrong on both sides, but who has the overwhelming power? and who is the underdog?
In 1948 the Palestinians could have made a wonderful peace treaty in which they completely shared Israel as equals. Instead they chose to fight. It seemed at the time that Israel would not have a chance. All the way to 1967 the Palestinians seemed to have an overwhelming position, Israel surrounded by enemies more powerful than them. The Palestinians should have chosen to be reconciled, but they chose violence.

Today Israel is in the overwhelming position, this is the best opportunity for them to have a negotiated reconciliation, but instead they have taken the same route as the Palestinians. To be fully fair to the Israelis they could point out that if they did negotiate peace there would still be terrorists who were not happy with the outcome. But the Palestinians were in that same boat in 1948.
03-19-2019 07:20 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Yeah, love your neighbor. Trap them in in Gaza, and pluck them off at will, even killing children. That's the way to treat them neighborly.

That's not propaganda. And by the way, you prove my point. Say something for the Palestinians and you are against Israel. I don't know, but, you must be a Christian Zionist.

And I'm for both the Palestinians and Israel. There's wrong on both sides, but who has the overwhelming power? and who is the underdog?
It's Israel who is trapped behind walls. Walls they had to build to keep murdering animals out. But the walls have doors for good people.

The Palestinians are connected to 2 Billion Muslims who hate Israel, and who have vowed to exterminate them all. The U.N. is filled with Muslam countries, and is very anti-Israel. So I would say that Muslams have all the power. Israel is just a spec on the map surrounded by a sea of enemies.

Palestine belongs to Israel because they had it for thousands of years. The Gaza Muslams are occupying their land just as Istanbul Muslams are occupying Constantinople in Asia Minor, the long-time center of Orthodox Christianity. Today Muslams are illegally occupying all the Bible lands once owned by Christians. They stole the lands and murdered its occupants. Case in point was the Turkish genocide of Armenia, the first Christian country.

The real truth is that Muslams have long been eliminating Jews and Christians all over the Mideast, Africa, and Asia. They are a slaughtering people, forcing their captives to convert or be killed. These murders regularly occur in Egypt, Pakistan, Syria, Nigeria, Indonesia, etc. Nearly every Muslam country murders Jews and Christians. Their only hope is to trust in God.

I would suggest you read a little world history before you make naive comments on this forum. Skip the propaganda sections in the MSM.
03-19-2019 06:18 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Equal rights for all? Why is it that Palestine provides no jobs for Israelis, yet Israel provides so many jobs to them?

Why is it that Palestine allows Hamas to use their homes to shoot rockets at Israel?

Why is it that the only jobs in Palestine are digging tunnels to attack Israel?

You sure have a crooked sense of justice. The Torah never commanded them to invite their enemies to rape their wives and kill their children. The Palestinians who act like real neighbors, get treated very well by Israel. Unfortunately, their own people kill them for acting like neighbors.

Awareness, you are a victim of Palestinian propaganda. So sad. It would be better for you to remain neutral towards Israel, than to side with Palestine.
Yeah, love your neighbor. Trap them in in Gaza, and pluck them off at will, even killing children. That's the way to treat them neighborly.

That's not propaganda. And by the way, you prove my point. Say something for the Palestinians and you are against Israel. I don't know, but, you must be a Christian Zionist.

And I'm for both the Palestinians and Israel. There's wrong on both sides, but who has the overwhelming power? and who is the underdog?
03-18-2019 08:38 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
No worming, at least concerning this. As I have seen it, bringing up anything that Israel is doing wrong, is defended by branding it anti-semitic.

And as far as I can determine they're just calling for equal human rights for all, including the Palestinians. But to speak for the Palestinians is considered to be speaking against Israel. It's interesting that it's seen that way, it indicates that what Israel is doing is wrong.

Israel is willing to use the Torah to claim the land, but they look away when the Torah tells the to love their neighbor.
Equal rights for all? Why is it that Palestine provides no jobs for Israelis, yet Israel provides so many jobs to them?

Why is it that Palestine allows Hamas to use their homes to shoot rockets at Israel?

Why is it that the only jobs in Palestine are digging tunnels to attack Israel?

You sure have a crooked sense of justice. The Torah never commanded them to invite their enemies to rape their wives and kill their children. The Palestinians who act like real neighbors, get treated very well by Israel. Unfortunately, their own people kill them for acting like neighbors.

Awareness, you are a victim of Palestinian propaganda. So sad. It would be better for you to remain neutral towards Israel, than to side with Palestine.
03-18-2019 05:56 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeek View Post
Yeah I couldn't follow a few stitches in your tapestry of self-contradiction. Should I have known immediately that you liked the congresswomen when you called them idiots and stooges? Based on what they've said so far I don't agree that those congresswomen are against the Jews. I mean is anybody that criticizes America against it? Maybe they're trying to help by criticizing to call for improvement. Why then would the fact that someone criticized Israel and the AIPAC mean they're against the Jews? Or were you just doing your surreptitious worming thing. Sometimes I can't tell.
No worming, at least concerning this. As I have seen it, bringing up anything that Israel is doing wrong, is defended by branding it anti-semitic.

And as far as I can determine they're just calling for equal human rights for all, including the Palestinians. But to speak for the Palestinians is considered to be speaking against Israel. It's interesting that it's seen that way, it indicates that what Israel is doing is wrong.

Israel is willing to use the Torah to claim the land, but they look away when the Torah tells the to love their neighbor.
03-18-2019 01:04 PM
zeek
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
I like them. But it's hard so far but to conclude that they are young and idealistic ... therefore idiots by that standard. Sorry if I offended your sensibilities for them.
Yeah I couldn't follow a few stitches in your tapestry of self-contradiction. Should I have known immediately that you liked the congresswomen when you called them idiots and stooges? Based on what they've said so far I don't agree that those congresswomen are against the Jews. I mean is anybody that criticizes America against it? Maybe they're trying to help by criticizing to call for improvement. Why then would the fact that someone criticized Israel and the AIPAC mean they're against the Jews? Or were you just doing your surreptitious worming thing. Sometimes I can't tell.
03-18-2019 11:55 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeek View Post
Let's not forget that you called the congresswomen "idiots" and "stooges" for making essentially the same observations and claimed they were against the Jews. Are those criticisms better, smarter or truer when they come from you? Or are you an idiot, stooge and against the Jews too? Porter's gone. There's nobody here but us chickens.
I like them. But it's hard so far but to conclude that they are young and idealistic ... therefore idiots by that standard. Sorry if I offended your sensibilities for them.
03-18-2019 09:42 AM
zeek
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
More the latter, than former. AIPAC is gunning for them. And history of modern Israel reveals they can be ruthless.
Let's not forget that you called the congresswomen "idiots" and "stooges" for making essentially the same observations and claimed they were against the Jews. Are those criticisms better, smarter or truer when they come from you? Or are you an idiot, stooge and against the Jews too? Porter's gone. There's nobody here but us chickens.
03-17-2019 12:42 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeek View Post
You went deep on that one bro. I must have struck a nerve. I was referring to what I thought was your use of irony and reductio ad absurdum. Maybe I was mistaken and you really believe all you said.
More the latter, than former. AIPAC is gunning for them. And history of modern Israel reveals they can be ruthless.
03-17-2019 12:37 PM
zeek
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Well Mel Porter did tell the saints to stay away from me because, I was a serpent that would bite them and poison them. Your post reveals that, you clearly were one that he told. So ... I've been a serpent for a long time ... but maybe lost that epithet when Mel passed (RIP) epitaph : Naming of Serpents.

But it did make me bust out laughing. Thanks for that. Ur a peach. You've been bitten ... er ah, wormed.
You went deep on that one bro. I thought you would merely find it funny. I must have struck a nerve. I was referring to what I thought was your use of irony and reductio ad absurdum in the post I was responding to. Maybe I was mistaken and you really believe all you said.
03-17-2019 07:16 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeek View Post
...said the Serpent with one fork of his tongue.
Well Mel Porter did tell the saints to stay away from me because, I was a serpent that would bite them and poison them. Your post reveals that, you clearly were one that he told. So ... I've been a serpent for a long time ... but maybe lost that epithet when Mel passed (RIP) epitaph : Naming of Serpents.

But it did make me bust out laughing. Thanks for that. Ur a peach. You've been bitten ... er ah, wormed.
03-17-2019 06:43 AM
zeek
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Yes they are idealistic idiots. But they hold office and unlike you and me they wield power. And therefore they are forces to be dealt with.

And they will be dealt with. AIPAC will see to it by lining the pockets of the heavyweights. They're after those 3 stooges : AOC Omar, and the other Muslim congresswoman. If they're against Jews, Jews are against them.

And we know what the Jews are capable of. Just look at what they are doing to the Palestinians. Read your Bible. It's not uncommon for the Jews to be on the wrong side of God. Most of the Jews today are of the synagogue of Satan ... if Revelation holds true.
...said the Serpent with one fork of his tongue.
03-16-2019 04:45 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
If Trump is claiming to clean up the situation, then I am all for that. It is a very bold and ambitious claim. If it turns out he is completely incapable of cleaning up the situation it demonstrates that he was arrogant and a fool.
I cannot believe a learned man can say something like this. How many in history have only pointed us in the right direction, unable to move the masses one inch. Do we call them arrogant fools? For example, JFK was the first to see the dangers of Deep State, after watching the CIA show him up at the Bay of Pigs. Did history condemn him as an arrogant fool for attempting to bring the CIA under control? Yet his death has awakened many.
Quote:
You cannot run for office on a platform that the situation is corrupt and needs to be cleaned up ("drain the swamp") and then when you are elected complain that the situation is corrupt. I agree completely that the situation is corrupt. I agree completely that it needs to be cleaned up.
Trump was elected to fill Scalia's seat. Even you have agreed to that. Some have said that in two years Trump has accomplished an incredible amount. Just look at the courts. Thank you Harry Reid!

When I look at what has happened in the DOJ and the FBI, turning over entrenched Progressives, replacing them with honest constitutional professionals, I am amazed what he has done so far. We may yet see justice for Clinton, Comey, Lynch, McCabe, Baker, Strzok, and others. At this point we don't know who will face justice. How could Trump ever foresee what he was up against, until the players played their cards? How could Trump know that Sessions would be deceived into recusing himself, thus permitting the "Insurance Policy" to be exercised? Having never waded thru the swamp, how could Trump know how deep it was?

Trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem. Reduced red tape regulations. The US is energy independent! I could go on and on. In my mind Trump's biggest accomplishments are what he has actually done, after only hearing endless promises from other Presidents.
Quote:
I think I am the only one on this forum who has claimed 911 was an inside job. So as corrupt as you might claim it is, I obviously feel it is more corrupt.
My wife and brother told me that for years, long before you did. But you added detail. Nice job. I should have listened to my brother about the Bush's too. You helped there too.
Quote:
I blame the CIA for Fake news since 1977, so there is nothing new there. I blame the CIA for JFK's assassination and the coup d'etat. Now I can see a reasonable basis for debate 40 years ago, but not today. Documents have since been declassified from Nixon's administration which prove this was the case and they explain why Nixon had to resign rather than let his henchman take the fall.
Fake News seemed to effect only certain news stories because the facts were hidden from the Press. Watergate became news because Mark Felt got slighted by Nixon, otherwise we would never have lived thru it. Maybe Trump is still alive based on what was learned from the Kennedy's deaths.
Quote:
The only value I see in what has happened with Trump is that the situation is becoming clearer for many more people to see.
And with this comment, we can both agree.
03-16-2019 12:00 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Remember for me it's all about policy.
Fine. The policy is moving forward from a world ruled by emperor's with the divine right to a constitutional democracy with an electorate that is educated, informed and led by their conscience. We are obviously somewhere between these two ends on a bridge. If you look where we started you can see that we have come a very long way indeed, on the other hand if you look at where we are headed we still have a long way to go.

However, the way is very clear -- Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one arrives there but by Him. If he was unjustly tried, then we should not expect anything different.

Yes, our presidents do not meet the standard, but they still need to be given the first chance. Just like David, the father let all the other sons appear before Samuel first, only after they had been given every chance did he bring in David.

If Trump is claiming to clean up the situation, then I am all for that. It is a very bold and ambitious claim. If it turns out he is completely incapable of cleaning up the situation it demonstrates that he was arrogant and a fool. You cannot run for office on a platform that the situation is corrupt and needs to be cleaned up ("drain the swamp") and then when you are elected complain that the situation is corrupt. I agree completely that the situation is corrupt. I agree completely that it needs to be cleaned up. I think I am the only one on this forum who has claimed 911 was an inside job. So as corrupt as you might claim it is, I obviously feel it is more corrupt. I blame the CIA for Fake news since 1977, so there is nothing new there. I blame the CIA for JFK's assassination and the coup d'etat. Now I can see a reasonable basis for debate 40 years ago, but not today. Documents have since been declassified from Nixon's administration which prove this was the case and they explain why Nixon had to resign rather than let his henchman take the fall.

The only value I see in what has happened with Trump is that the situation is becoming clearer for many more people to see.
03-16-2019 11:37 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
It is good to be outside of the system, you are less compromised. But this is like fighting for the heavyweight title, you better be well trained.

AOC and Omar are idiots. They think that they alone are right and everyone else is wrong, everyone else is compromised, so they alone can speak the hard truths.

So AOC would have tens of thousands of Americans lose their jobs for her green plan which will not be a solution to anything. They don't deny it isn't a solution, yet she justifies it by saying "at least I want to do something". Fine, if that is how she feels she should be the first one to lose her job.

Omar is very clearly biased against Jews. She may not be "anti semitic" but instead of simply focusing on the law and trying to move US policy away from strongly supporting Israel, which is our ally, she chose instead to cast aspersions on virtually everyone in the US. If you do that you have no right to complain when they do it to you.

This is why I say they are idiots. They have stepped into the ring with heavyweights and made idiotic mistakes.
Yes they are idealistic idiots. But they hold office and unlike you and me they wield power. And therefore they are forces to be dealt with.

And they will be dealt with. AIPAC will see to it by lining the pockets of the heavyweights. They're after those 3 stooges : AOC Omar, and the other Muslim congresswoman. If they're against Jews, Jews are against them.

And we know what the Jews are capable of. Just look at what they are doing to the Palestinians. Read your Bible. It's not uncommon for the Jews to be on the wrong side of God. Most of the Jews today are of the synagogue of Satan ... if Revelation holds true.
03-16-2019 10:43 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I guess I need to do a post mortem, why could I not see it, what was blinding my eyes?

I like your analogy to Pearl Harbor, that is very personal for me. My dad was 12 at the time and spent the day rowing sailors (mostly dead ones) from the Arizona. His house was less than 100 feet from where it was anchored (his old house is now a historical site). Of course he is not the heroic figure Trump is with his phony 4F, nor would I liken my grandfather to Trump either, both my father and grandfather were in the military and recognized a war hero even if he was captured or killed.

So why would we as a family become so naive, able to fall for this Fake news coup? Pretty insulting when you think about it, especially since my Dad got forced out because he refused to let the CIA set up shop in UPI. Fake news has been a very critical force to our family since 1977. Later he disagreed with the NYT handling of the reporting on JFK assassination, and again left. Fake news has been a very big deal in our family and yet here I am, so naive?

I get it, we have had Fake news since 1977 yet it takes CNN saying mean things about Trump for others to see it. So I am happy about that. It has been 42 years, but at least you can now see what I see and know that it matters.

Likewise the coup d'etat. That took place in 1963, so I am glad you finally figured that out. No one cared about the Box 13 scandal when I brought it up, but how do you think the CIA controls Johnson? Do what we say or we'll expose you are a fraud. That is one reason why I welcome the Mueller investigation, because no one is going to be able to bring down the whole "fruitless works of darkness" if they are a fraud.

But that is not the only reason. In the 60s my uncle's house was bombed by the KKK (Robert Kochtitzky). This was because he was standing with the black churches in Jackson, Ms. So our family has been in the center of the civil rights movement for virtually my whole life. I have seen many people approach this issue, most of them with the ministry of condemnation which does not yield righteousness, which is why 50 years later we still see bombings and shootings in churches, mosques, etc. My uncle understood the ministry of righteousness which includes reconciliation. If I hadn't been given a TKO I could tell you the difference, guess you'll have to google it for yourself. But one thing I do know from my experience, the ministry of condemnation is full of those who set themselves up as the judge and jury, deciding who is knocked out and who isn't.

We saw the Black Panthers, they went down a failed path of an eye for an eye, of being conquered by the evil. But who knows 50 years later you would think people would finally figure out this is not a path that leads to righteousness. But I also saw Martin Luther King Jr. and his "coarse jesting" and infidelity was detrimental to the movement. The NT says "be perfect" and he wasn't. Trump isn't either. So yes, I point this out because I know it will undermine anything else he wishes to do. For example Bill Belichik is a family friend, he went to the same university as my cousins and they would have him over to their house. Still I will point out that spygate and deflategate were both unrighteous and will damage his legacy, giving his haters ammunition.

But going back to your Pearl Harbor analogy, one outcome of that attack was the internment camps. No doubt people thought that was the patriotic thing to do. My dad didn't. Instead they figured out who the spy was. He was a butcher. All the admirals would call ahead when they were gonna be in port to order steaks. As a result the butcher (who was Japanese) knew when every ship was going to be in port. Rather than throw every Japanese in jail, find out the traitor and deal with him. Likewise with Trump, instead of falsely accusing him of being a traitor, lets be more precise in our dealing with sin. So since we both agree that the internment camps were unrighteous and foolish, and that they were similar to the false accusations made against Trump why did I support the Mueller investigation? Well, Warren was governor of California and supported the internment camps. That error no doubt influenced his being chosen for the Supreme Court (figured he'd be tough on the commies) yet that error no doubt shaped his opinion and his court ruled on transformative civil rights decisions.

Is it hypocritical that I am not concerned about the most powerful man, a billionaire, a man who has sued thousands of people and stiffed countless number of workers, that I don't empathize with him being unjustly examined? Let me tell you what I am concerned about. My brother was one of the lawyers who recently took the Habeus Corpus case to the Supreme Court. This was where the CIA was locking up "bad guys" in Guantanamo without telling us their names or their crimes. Why? Because our "allies", countries run by despots and tyrants, were cleaning house of political opponents and sending them to Guantanamo. They couldn't tell their names or charges because it would be an outrage. You still don't know them because they were discreetly released and sent abroad as a result of that trial. So when the CIA helps some despot take a peon, toss them in the dungeon and throw away the key without so much as telling us why, then yes, I see that as unrighteous. I do empathize. Sorry if I don't have empathy for some billionaire 4F who insults POWs and families of those KIA, who stiffs common workers, sues everyone he can think of, and is surrounded by thugs and scam artists.
I hope you feel better now.

And how many wrongs does it take to make it all right?

So . . . since all politicians are crooks and liars, even draft dodgers like Clinton and Trump, we need endless Special Prosecutors to undermine our duly elected Presidents. So there's nothing wrong with a deep state coup d'etat because Trump was a draft dodger? Now I get it!

There's just way too many generalizations here to make a decent case. Like Trump insults POW's and GoldStar families. No, he pushed back on one of each. Obviously if Trump hated the military like the Dems do, they would not support Trump. Obviously if McCain was not integral to the Russian Hoax, Trump would not have punched back at him either. Obviously if that one Muslim GoldStar dad had not spoken against Trump at the DNC, he would have been off limits.

Your post is so indicative of identity politics. Talk about drugs coming across the border, and Trump must be an evil racist and xenophobe. Talk about Trump's 4F deferment, and he is disqualified from the office. But how many other politicians had deferments? Hush! Don't talk about that! And Trump "stiffs" workers, but let's not talk about other Politicians who never ran a business in their life, or talk about all the workers who had jobs because of Trump. Must we then elect ones like AOC who has no record at all except bartending?

ZNP, too many tangents to reply to here. And I have no interest in discussing your family, lest I run the risk of insulting any of them. I'm sure they are all wonderful people. Let's not make this personal.

Remember for me it's all about policy. And justice. All the men of the Bible were seriously flawed sinners, but I still love them because of their message. I support Trump because I believe in his policies, not because he kisses babies. This media has put all of Trump's warts under the microscope, but never get the impression that other politicians were better because there was no microscope.
03-16-2019 10:08 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
I often hear from Trump voters that they voted for him because they thought Washington was broken and Trump would shake it all up ; drain the swamp and all.

And now they're criticizing AOC and Omar for doing that very same thing. Right for one, wrong for the other.
It is good to be outside of the system, you are less compromised. But this is like fighting for the heavyweight title, you better be well trained.

AOC and Omar are idiots. They think that they alone are right and everyone else is wrong, everyone else is compromised, so they alone can speak the hard truths.

So AOC would have tens of thousands of Americans lose their jobs for her green plan which will not be a solution to anything. They don't deny it isn't a solution, yet she justifies it by saying "at least I want to do something". Fine, if that is how she feels she should be the first one to lose her job.

Omar is very clearly biased against Jews. She may not be "anti semitic" but instead of simply focusing on the law and trying to move US policy away from strongly supporting Israel, which is our ally, she chose instead to cast aspersions on virtually everyone in the US. If you do that you have no right to complain when they do it to you.

This is why I say they are idiots. They have stepped into the ring with heavyweights and made idiotic mistakes.
03-16-2019 10:07 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
I often hear from Trump voters that they voted for him because they thought Washington was broken and Trump would shake it all up ; drain the swamp and all.

And now they're criticizing AOC and Omar for doing that very same thing. Right for one, wrong for the other.
Trump limits regulations and creates jobs.


AOC loves regulations and ends jobs.


Aren't they the same thing?
03-16-2019 10:01 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
What you don't see in politics is far more important than what you do. The fact that she is receiving very mild rebukes in public is simply because the democrats don't want to offend her supporters. They understand that as foolish and idiotic some of the things she has done are, she still represents a number of people who would walk away from the Democratic party if they publicly rebuke her.

That said "money talks and BS walks" in politics. Amazon.com has money, they do the talking, Comey and Diblasio are listening, two very important democrats. No doubt Clinton and others are also listening. So let's see if AOC is opposed in the next election by a very well funded candidate who wins the Democratic nomination. That is when you will realize they put the knife in her back.



Again, the issue is will she be reelected? The democrats cannot risk offending Muslims, they are critical in elections decided by less than 3%. But that doesn't mean that behind the scenes they have already decided she must go. Again, let's see if she gets reelected? You might think that Muslims would rally behind her, but I doubt it. Her reelection will be very high profile and if she were funded by Islamic organizations it would become a major campaign issue, stir up more heated rhetoric, and bring negative publicity to a minority that does not want negative publicity.
I often hear from Trump voters that they voted for him because they thought Washington was broken and Trump would shake it all up ; drain the swamp and all.

And now they're criticizing AOC and Omar for doing that very same thing. Right for one, wrong for the other.
03-16-2019 09:45 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I think ZNP and others here got a "technical knockout" for supporting Muller's Witch Hunt in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Instead of rightly admitting the coup d'etat, you clamor about "Trump is rude, Trump is arrogant." That's like complaining about "foul-mouthed" American politicians as Pearl Harbor was being attacked.
I guess I need to do a post mortem, why could I not see it, what was blinding my eyes?

I like your analogy to Pearl Harbor, that is very personal for me. My dad was 12 at the time and spent the day rowing sailors (mostly dead ones) from the Arizona. His house was less than 100 feet from where it was anchored (his old house is now a historical site). Of course he is not the heroic figure Trump is with his phony 4F, nor would I liken my grandfather to Trump either, both my father and grandfather were in the military and recognized a war hero even if he was captured or killed.

So why would we as a family become so naive, able to fall for this Fake news coup? Pretty insulting when you think about it, especially since my Dad got forced out because he refused to let the CIA set up shop in UPI. Fake news has been a very critical force to our family since 1977. Later he disagreed with the NYT handling of the reporting on JFK assassination, and again left. Fake news has been a very big deal in our family and yet here I am, so naive?

I get it, we have had Fake news since 1977 yet it takes CNN saying mean things about Trump for others to see it. So I am happy about that. It has been 42 years, but at least you can now see what I see and know that it matters.

Likewise the coup d'etat. That took place in 1963, so I am glad you finally figured that out. No one cared about the Box 13 scandal when I brought it up, but how do you think the CIA controls Johnson? Do what we say or we'll expose you are a fraud. That is one reason why I welcome the Mueller investigation, because no one is going to be able to bring down the whole "fruitless works of darkness" if they are a fraud.

But that is not the only reason. In the 60s my uncle's house was bombed by the KKK (Robert Kochtitzky). This was because he was standing with the black churches in Jackson, Ms. So our family has been in the center of the civil rights movement for virtually my whole life. I have seen many people approach this issue, most of them with the ministry of condemnation which does not yield righteousness, which is why 50 years later we still see bombings and shootings in churches, mosques, etc. My uncle understood the ministry of righteousness which includes reconciliation. If I hadn't been given a TKO I could tell you the difference, guess you'll have to google it for yourself. But one thing I do know from my experience, the ministry of condemnation is full of those who set themselves up as the judge and jury, deciding who is knocked out and who isn't.

We saw the Black Panthers, they went down a failed path of an eye for an eye, of being conquered by the evil. But who knows 50 years later you would think people would finally figure out this is not a path that leads to righteousness. But I also saw Martin Luther King Jr. and his "coarse jesting" and infidelity was detrimental to the movement. The NT says "be perfect" and he wasn't. Trump isn't either. So yes, I point this out because I know it will undermine anything else he wishes to do. For example Bill Belichik is a family friend, he went to the same university as my cousins and they would have him over to their house. Still I will point out that spygate and deflategate were both unrighteous and will damage his legacy, giving his haters ammunition.

But going back to your Pearl Harbor analogy, one outcome of that attack was the internment camps. No doubt people thought that was the patriotic thing to do. My dad didn't. Instead they figured out who the spy was. He was a butcher. All the admirals would call ahead when they were gonna be in port to order steaks. As a result the butcher (who was Japanese) knew when every ship was going to be in port. Rather than throw every Japanese in jail, find out the traitor and deal with him. Likewise with Trump, instead of falsely accusing him of being a traitor, lets be more precise in our dealing with sin. So since we both agree that the internment camps were unrighteous and foolish, and that they were similar to the false accusations made against Trump why did I support the Mueller investigation? Well, Warren was governor of California and supported the internment camps. That error no doubt influenced his being chosen for the Supreme Court (figured he'd be tough on the commies) yet that error no doubt shaped his opinion and his court ruled on transformative civil rights decisions.

Is it hypocritical that I am not concerned about the most powerful man, a billionaire, a man who has sued thousands of people and stiffed countless number of workers, that I don't empathize with him being unjustly examined? Let me tell you what I am concerned about. My brother was one of the lawyers who recently took the Habeus Corpus case to the Supreme Court. This was where the CIA was locking up "bad guys" in Guantanamo without telling us their names or their crimes. Why? Because our "allies", countries run by despots and tyrants, were cleaning house of political opponents and sending them to Guantanamo. They couldn't tell their names or charges because it would be an outrage. You still don't know them because they were discreetly released and sent abroad as a result of that trial. So when the CIA helps some despot take a peon, toss them in the dungeon and throw away the key without so much as telling us why, then yes, I see that as unrighteous. I do empathize. Sorry if I don't have empathy for some billionaire 4F who insults POWs and families of those KIA, who stiffs common workers, sues everyone he can think of, and is surrounded by thugs and scam artists.
03-16-2019 09:11 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
AOC never got "body slammed." In fact, most Democratic hopefuls have taken up her Green Deal. Have you forgotten, "she's the boss?"
What you don't see in politics is far more important than what you do. The fact that she is receiving very mild rebukes in public is simply because the democrats don't want to offend her supporters. They understand that as foolish and idiotic some of the things she has done are, she still represents a number of people who would walk away from the Democratic party if they publicly rebuke her.

That said "money talks and BS walks" in politics. Amazon.com has money, they do the talking, Comey and Diblasio are listening, two very important democrats. No doubt Clinton and others are also listening. So let's see if AOC is opposed in the next election by a very well funded candidate who wins the Democratic nomination. That is when you will realize they put the knife in her back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Omar too won a great victory. Instead of censure for despicable comments, and removal from the Foreign Relations Commitee, like King of Iowa, she got "much needed anti-hate legislation."
Again, the issue is will she be reelected? The democrats cannot risk offending Muslims, they are critical in elections decided by less than 3%. But that doesn't mean that behind the scenes they have already decided she must go. Again, let's see if she gets reelected? You might think that Muslims would rally behind her, but I doubt it. Her reelection will be very high profile and if she were funded by Islamic organizations it would become a major campaign issue, stir up more heated rhetoric, and bring negative publicity to a minority that does not want negative publicity.
03-16-2019 07:13 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Christians believe God is controlling history?

Perhaps the weather too?

Appalling!
I know. If God is controlling history, He's doing an appalling job. I stand against vilifying God like that.
03-16-2019 03:56 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
No brother. It's all over the Christian Prophecy sites. Look it up. They believe God is controlling history, and it's further development.
Christians believe God is controlling history?

Perhaps the weather too?

Appalling!
03-16-2019 03:54 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Hey ... Jonathan Cahn is preaching and teaching how Trump was prophesied in the Bible to be president. According to Cahn, he's a modern day King Jehu.

And then there's all the claims that he's King Cyrus.

Methinks that Christians are making him bigger than the media does. They're making him out to be a Bible hero. It doesn't get any bigger than that.
I guess I missed that CNN report about King Cyrus or King Jehu in the White House.
03-16-2019 03:49 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I am not a Trump hater. Not being a Trump cheerleader doesn't make me a hater. I am simply telling the truth, he is an insulting person, he is abusive, and he is arrogant. This conclusion is based solely on his own words.

Saying this doesn't in any way say that previous presidents weren't liars, cheats, and disingenuous. This is not a binary choice, Trump being arrogant doesn't require that Obama be a saint and vice versa.

"As for women and wimps in the locker room" we are seeing that with the Democrats (Pelosi, AOC, Omar and Clinton). They are disintegrating right in front of our eyes. AOC's blunder with Amazon.com, trying to be tough and instead got body slammed. I would be stunned if she lasts more than 1 term. Likewise with Omar, giving the Democrats a major black eye that will not go away. And how wimpy is Pelosi. Saying that "Trump is not worth impeaching". That is the total cowards way out. She wants to claim he has done things worthy of impeachment but somehow it isn't worth impeaching him. Do your job. If he has done things worthy of impeachment, then your job is to impeach him. If on the other hand the entire thing has been a political witch hunt and you have been exposed, your lies and cowardice are simply continuing to dig the hole you will be buried in.
AOC never got "body slammed." In fact, most Democratic hopefuls have taken up her Green Deal. Have you forgotten, "she's the boss?"

Omar too won a great victory. Instead of censure for despicable comments, and removal from the Foreign Relations Commitee, like King of Iowa, she got "much needed anti-hate legislation."

I think ZNP and others here got a "technical knockout" for supporting Muller's Witch Hunt in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Instead of rightly admitting the coup d'etat, you clamor about "Trump is rude, Trump is arrogant." That's like complaining about "foul-mouthed" American politicians as Pearl Harbor was being attacked.
03-16-2019 02:29 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy View Post
Well, one Christian is anyway... Two counting you.
Yeah Awareness, stop being a megaphone for these right wing nut jobs.
03-15-2019 09:57 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy View Post
You said they were making making him bigger than the media does. I don't think that is possible. I don't visit "Christian prophecy sites," and don't care to. But I doubt their influence can match that of the media. That was the point of my quip.

Have a good weekend, Harold!
Point taken. You too.
03-15-2019 09:33 PM
Igzy
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
No brother. It's all over the Christian Prophecy sites. Look it up. They believe God is controlling history, and it's further development.
You said they were making making him bigger than the media does. I don't think that is possible. I don't visit "Christian prophecy sites," and don't care to. But I doubt their influence can match that of the media. That was the point of my quip.

Have a good weekend, Harold!
03-15-2019 09:10 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy View Post
Well, one Christian is anyway... Two counting you.
No brother. It's all over the Christian Prophecy sites. Look it up. They believe God is controlling history, and it's further development.
03-15-2019 08:06 PM
Igzy
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Hey ... Jonathan Cahn is preaching and teaching how Trump was prophesied in the Bible to be president. According to Cahn, he's a modern day King Jehu.

And then there's all the claims that he's King Cyrus.

Methinks that Christians are making him bigger than the media does. They're making him out to be a Bible hero. It doesn't get any bigger than that.
Well, one Christian is anyway... Two counting you.
03-15-2019 07:27 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy View Post
The media has little to report about, because generally we live in peaceful and prosperous times. So for lack of news they report on Trump and this and that"investigation" which the Democrats have dreamed up, ad nauseum.

If we had a crisis, Trump would show himself a leader and the attention would be taken off him, and everyone would have perspective again.

If the worst thing we have to worry about is that Trump is insulting and arrogant, and that he might build a border wall, we are doing pretty well. I'll take that.

News junkies need to find something else to do. The media have nothing to talk about and are making Trump bigger and a bigger problem than he actually is.
Hey ... Jonathan Cahn is preaching and teaching how Trump was prophesied in the Bible to be president. According to Cahn, he's a modern day King Jehu.

And then there's all the claims that he's King Cyrus.

Methinks that Christians are making him bigger than the media does. They're making him out to be a Bible hero. It doesn't get any bigger than that.
03-15-2019 06:04 PM
Igzy
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I am not a Trump hater. Not being a Trump cheerleader doesn't make me a hater. I am simply telling the truth, he is an insulting person, he is abusive, and he is arrogant.
The media has little to report about, because generally we live in peaceful and prosperous times. So for lack of news they report on Trump and this and that"investigation" which the Democrats have dreamed up, ad nauseum.

If we had a crisis, Trump would show himself a leader and the attention would be taken off him, and everyone would have perspective again.

If the worst thing we have to worry about is that Trump is insulting and arrogant, and that he might build a border wall, we are doing pretty well. I'll take that.

News junkies need to find something else to do. The media have nothing to talk about and are making Trump bigger and a bigger problem than he actually is.
03-15-2019 05:56 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
You Trump haters had nice guy, "Saint George Bush" for 8 years, and you had nothing good to say about him either. That's why Trump's supporters pay no attention to your endless "noise." Sorry if you can't figure that out.
I am not a Trump hater. Not being a Trump cheerleader doesn't make me a hater. I am simply telling the truth, he is an insulting person, he is abusive, and he is arrogant. This conclusion is based solely on his own words.

Saying this doesn't in any way say that previous presidents weren't liars, cheats, and disingenuous. This is not a binary choice, Trump being arrogant doesn't require that Obama be a saint and vice versa.

"As for women and wimps in the locker room" we are seeing that with the Democrats (Pelosi, AOC, Omar and Clinton). They are disintegrating right in front of our eyes. AOC's blunder with Amazon.com, trying to be tough and instead got body slammed. I would be stunned if she lasts more than 1 term. Likewise with Omar, giving the Democrats a major black eye that will not go away. And how wimpy is Pelosi. Saying that "Trump is not worth impeaching". That is the total cowards way out. She wants to claim he has done things worthy of impeachment but somehow it isn't worth impeaching him. Do your job. If he has done things worthy of impeachment, then your job is to impeach him. If on the other hand the entire thing has been a political witch hunt and you have been exposed, your lies and cowardice are simply continuing to dig the hole you will be buried in.
03-15-2019 05:49 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
How can you believe these bozos when now they blame the New Zealand mosque massacre on him too? For 16 years all the world's ills were blamed on Bush. Now they got a new "punching bag." Why do you even pay attention to this nonsense?
I didn't quote "these bozos", I quoted Trump. I hadn't even heard anything about anyone blaming Trump for NZ. Many of the tweets I quoted were from 2016, 2015, 2014 and 2013. They predated any attacks on him. My point is that he made enemies, he attacked them publicly, if you live like that you should expect payback.
03-15-2019 05:31 PM
Igzy
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
The more Trump is hated, the more I support him.
Ok, Mr. Video has another. Actually I made this quite a while ago.

The Trumps Hater's Final Words

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dQ...cbi1nhXs2L5VZD
03-15-2019 05:02 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Read his own tweets. He is an insulting, arrogant, abusive person.
I see this like the New England Patriots locker room. Years ago it used to be that women were never allowed in. Now they have to allow female reporters in too. It gets nasty and rough at times in there, but that's what it takes for Coach Belichick to produce a winner.

"Women" and "wimps" want into the locker room, but then they whine about what "bad things" they hear from the coach.

The American people had 8 years of smooth and flattering tickle the ears, "hope and change," yet in reality it was all deceitful teleprompter-driven stage talk. They knew who they were getting with Trump, yet they still voted him in, warts and all.

You Trump haters had nice guy, "Saint George Bush" for 8 years, and you had nothing good to say about him either. That's why Trump's supporters pay no attention to your endless "noise." Sorry if you can't figure that out.
03-15-2019 04:25 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
The idea that it requires a propaganda machine to think this guy hates everyone is ridiculous. Read his own tweets. He is an insulting, arrogant, abusive person.
After watching hundreds, more like thousands of lies, fabrications, exaggerations, half-truths, and distortions about Trump from the propaganda smear machines of the Democratic Party, I see this twitter nonsense as "foxhole banter" for a President under siege from within and without. He's a counter-puncher. You kick him below the belt, and you'll get it too.

The Deep State coup d'etat was in the works in mid 2016, called by his FBI / DOJ enemies as an "Insurance Policy," known to them as Code Name Crossfire Hurricane.

The more Trump is hated, the more I support him.

How can you believe these bozos when now they blame the New Zealand mosque massacre on him too? For 16 years all the world's ills were blamed on Bush. Now they got a new "punching bag." Why do you even pay attention to this nonsense?
03-15-2019 02:08 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Nobody called Trump a racist until he ran for President as a conservative.

Since then, if you listen carefully to the CNN propaganda machine, we have learned that he "hates" everyone.
Here are some of his tweets:

I feel sorry for Rosie 's new partner in love whose parents are devastated at the thought of their daughter being with @Rosie--a true loser.

You must admit that Bryant Gumbel is one of the dumbest racists around - an arrogant dope with no talent. Failed at CBS etc-why still on TV?

@michellemalkin You were born stupid!

There is no longer a Bernie Sanders "political revolution." He is turning out to be a weak and somewhat pathetic figure,wants it all to end!

A dishonest slob of a reporter, who doesn't understand my sarcasm when talking about him or his wife, wrote a foolish & boring Trump "hit"

I can't resist hitting lightweight @DannyZuker verbally when he starts up because he is just.so pathetic and easy (stupid)!

I have been saying for weeks for President Obama to stop the flights from West Africa. So simple, but he refused. A TOTAL incompetent!

Sleep eyes @ChuckTodd is killing Meet The Press. Isn't he pathetic? Love watching him fail!

.@FrankLuntz, your so-called "focus groups" are a total joke. Don't come to my office looking for business again. You are a clown!

When Mitt Romney asked me for my endorsement last time around, he was so awkward and goofy that we all should have known he could not win!

Just heard that crazy and very dumb @morningmika had a mental breakdown while talking about me on the low ratings @Morning_Joe. Joe a mess!

The idea that it requires a propaganda machine to think this guy hates everyone is ridiculous. Read his own tweets. He is an insulting, arrogant, abusive person.
03-15-2019 01:56 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry View Post
Another phrase is "crazy like a fox". I used to think what a buffoon for his excessive use of twitter.
I've come to think it's his way of sending a message to a certain person or certain persons, but not intended for consumption by everyone. It's also a way to get a message out that bypasses the MSM.
When he's expressive negative comments about a person (Jerrod Nadler, John McCain or someone else), have you considered they might have a contentious history? We're caught as spectators in personality conflicts. It's not a movie and it's not a game.
But if this is correct then it proves he is a fool. Why would you conduct this campaign in the open for the whole world to see, comment on, late night comics use it for fodder, all the while trying to also maintain the dignity you need as President of the US. You might still be reelected, but you are going to divide the country, feeding a divisive narrative. If it isn't good for the country it isn't good for your presidency. The principle is "as much as is possible be at peace with all people". To my observation Trump arrogantly ignores this principle, though he seems to have improved since his campaign.
03-15-2019 01:46 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry View Post
Remember the Witness Lee quote "people change"?
Well yes people do change. Suppose he was a racist at one time, does that mean President Trump is a racist now and incapable of change?
People to change. If the have love and compassion in their heart, there's always change.
In my early 20's I admit I was a homophobe. Now at 51 I haven't been for a long time. People change.
Yet we should know from our LC experiences the tendency of "label me label you". So and so isn't one with the brothers. By default so and so must be an oppose. Rather the argument that's not being addressed is validation why I should be one with the brothers.
Similar, where's the validation President Trump colluded? I may think he's not likeable, but that's no reason I would support the anti-Trump narrative.
Rather the 24/7 anti-Trump narrative has driven my indifference towards Trump to one supporting his agenda as president.
Nobody called Trump a racist until he ran for President as a conservative.

Since then, if you listen carefully to the CNN propaganda machine, we have learned that he "hates" everyone.

And all the evidence I have seen about Russian collusion showed me that Clinton, Lynch, Comey, McCabe, Yates, Rosenstein, Strzok, Page, Baker, et al should be in jail.
03-15-2019 12:13 PM
Terry
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
In my opinion he is a fool, though he might argue that what appears to be foolish to us is his "genius".
Another phrase is "crazy like a fox". I used to think what a buffoon for his excessive use of twitter.
I've come to think it's his way of sending a message to a certain person or certain persons, but not intended for consumption by everyone. It's also a way to get a message out that bypasses the MSM.
When he's expressive negative comments about a person (Jerrod Nadler, John McCain or someone else), have you considered they might have a contentious history? We're caught as spectators in personality conflicts. It's not a movie and it's not a game.
03-15-2019 12:06 PM
Terry
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Then you are the the first. Good for you.

I have heard numerous talking heads cite Charlottesville to "prove" that Trump is racist.
Remember the Witness Lee quote "people change"?
Well yes people do change. Suppose he was a racist at one time, does that mean President Trump is a racist now and incapable of change?
People to change. If the have love and compassion in their heart, there's always change.
In my early 20's I admit I was a homophobe. Now at 51 I haven't been for a long time. People change.
Yet we should know from our LC experiences the tendency of "label me label you". So and so isn't one with the brothers. By default so and so must be an oppose. Rather the argument that's not being addressed is validation why I should be one with the brothers.
Similar, where's the validation President Trump colluded? I may think he's not likeable, but that's no reason I would support the anti-Trump narrative.
Rather the 24/7 anti-Trump narrative has driven my indifference towards Trump to one supporting his agenda as president.
03-13-2019 07:34 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
No you don't.

You could care less what he says.
Not true. I keep up with what Trump says, tweets, or videos', every day. How do you think I know he's a pathological liar? I hear that people like Trump because he's all out in the open and upfront about everything. And he is. He's not a bad performer. He puts on quite a show. He's undeniably entertaining. Loads of fun. Late Night comedians are having a heyday. He's makes it easy for them. Ask Jay Leno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
You hate him and only want to brand him.
I've already admitted that I've never liked the guy. And, Trump needs branding? Are you blind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Simple as that. Let the facts and the evidence be damned, he is a "pathological liar."
The facts and evidence is found with my eyes and ears. Should I believe them, or your "facts and evidence?" Secondhand evidence should always be questioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
It goes along with your other goals in life, to prove that all Christians, including your own parents, are evil "what-what's," that the Bible is farcical, and that God Himself is untrustworthy.
Well I admit with all my years with God, He hasn't always come thru. And I certainly can't predict Him. He's pretty slippery if you ask me. But He's hasn't smashed me like the little bug I/we are.

AND ... I must give thanks 100 times a day or more to Him. And tell Him I love Him like breathing an equal many times or more a day. I love my invisible friend. Don't you?

And I don't think all Christians are evil. That's absurd. To me, all Christians are every bit as human as every body else. Like one of my taglines stated in the past : "It's not God I have a problem with, it's His fan club." And so I do have problems with Christians that go around thinking they are more special than all other humans. Now that, is unquestionably absurd, IMHO.
03-13-2019 04:55 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Then you are the the first. Good for you.

I have heard numerous talking heads cite Charlottesville to "prove" that Trump is racist.
In my opinion he is a fool, though he might argue that what appears to be foolish to us is his "genius".

When he said that the illegal immigrants coming into the US were rapists, drug dealers, etc. Well that could have been said in a much better way. It is not unreasonable for people to take offense at the way he said it and consider it a slap in the face to our neighbors to the south. When he called many of these countries where the immigrants were coming from "s***hole" countries, that also could be construed as racist. Sometimes it is hard to draw the line between arrogance and racism. When he insulted McCain, when he insulted women (Bush tapes), when he insulted a gold star family -- all of those insults open the door for people to insult him in return.
03-13-2019 04:15 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
I don't care if he's a racist. My dad was an unapologetic racist. I care that he's a pathological liar.
No you don't.

You could care less what he says. You hate him and only want to brand him. Simple as that. Let the facts and the evidence be damned, he is a "pathological liar."

It goes along with your other goals in life, to prove that all Christians, including your own parents, are evil "what-what's," that the Bible is farcical, and that God Himself is untrustworthy.

Be honest now. That's what you have been telling us for years.
03-13-2019 12:06 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Then you are the the first. Good for you.

I have heard numerous talking heads cite Charlottesville to "prove" that Trump is racist.
I don't care if he's a racist. My dad was an unapologetic racist. I care that he's a pathological liar.
03-13-2019 09:55 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Some people may have been confused but I always had the impression he was referring to the protesters and not to nazis. "Either side" seemed pretty obvious.
Then you are the the first. Good for you.

I have heard numerous talking heads cite Charlottesville to "prove" that Trump is racist.
03-13-2019 09:26 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
This was their proof that Trump is a racist? This was all the Media Had? Even I was fooled by all the reporting into thinking that Trump said some of those Nazi protesters were "good people."

CNN Links to Own 2017 Report Disproving Charlottesville Hoax; ‘Very Fine People’ Referred to Statue

Talk about sleazy reporting at CNN . . .
"CNN failed to correct, retract, or apologize for its repeated false reports in recent weeks that President Donald Trump had referred to neo-Nazis as “very fine people” in his remarks about the Charlottesville, Virginia, riot in 2017.

But on Tuesday, CNN linked to its own report at the time that reported, accurately, that Trump had used “very fine people” to refer to protesters for and against the removal of a historic statue, not to neo-Nazis
."
Based on this one false CNN report, probably 40% of the country is convinced that Trump is racist.
Some people may have been confused but I always had the impression he was referring to the protesters and not to nazis. "Either side" seemed pretty obvious.
03-13-2019 08:17 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
The only thing that's "cheap" are the cheap shots you continually post.
Not cheap. Free.
03-13-2019 07:45 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Oh! Oh! Oh! A throw back to Kirk Fraser style of communication.

I guess you're telling me to go listen to a good old fashion Fire and Brimstome sermon, like when I was a kid.

And I haven't read Ehrman in a couple of years. I'm reading David F. Strauss right now, from the middle 18th c. : The Life of Jesus, Critically Examined. It was cheap. Only 99 cents for Kindle
The only thing that's "cheap" are the cheap shots you continually post.

I posted scripture. You exhibit the exact same arrogance towards Israel that Paul addressed in Romans 11.
03-13-2019 07:41 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

This was their proof that Trump is a racist? This was all the Media Had? Even I was fooled by all the reporting into thinking that Trump said some of those Nazi protesters were "good people."

CNN Links to Own 2017 Report Disproving Charlottesville Hoax; ‘Very Fine People’ Referred to Statue

Talk about sleazy reporting at CNN . . .
"CNN failed to correct, retract, or apologize for its repeated false reports in recent weeks that President Donald Trump had referred to neo-Nazis as “very fine people” in his remarks about the Charlottesville, Virginia, riot in 2017.

But on Tuesday, CNN linked to its own report at the time that reported, accurately, that Trump had used “very fine people” to refer to protesters for and against the removal of a historic statue, not to neo-Nazis
."
Based on this one false CNN report, probably 40% of the country is convinced that Trump is racist.
03-13-2019 07:41 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Sorry bro, but your Bible knowledge is really distorted. Perhaps you should give up on Bart Ehrman and the lost book of Eli, and read some better quality stuff. Even Nee and Lee are better than the books you read.

And Apostle Paul has something to say to certain arrogant Gentiles, "Israel was broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Don't be high-minded, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you." (Romans 11.20-21)
Oh! Oh! Oh! A throw back to Kirk Fraser style of communication.

I guess you're telling me to go listen to a good old fashion Fire and Brimstone sermon, like when I was a kid.

And I haven't read Ehrman in a couple of years. I'm reading David F. Strauss right now, from the middle 18th c. : The Life of Jesus, Critically Examined. It was cheap. Only 99 cents for Kindle
03-12-2019 04:51 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Yes it's a pejorative and disparaging term.

But I was using it to point out why Christians shouldn't support the modern day state of Israel.

I mean, why support Israel, Jerusalem, and the rebuilding of the Temple when Jesus' death rent the veil in the Temple. So wanting it back is an insult to his death.

Plus Jesus made it plain that Jerusalem was no longer important when he said :
Sorry bro, but your Bible knowledge is really distorted. Perhaps you should give up on Bart Ehrman and the lost book of Eli, and read some better quality stuff. Even Nee and Lee are better than the books you read.

And Apostle Paul has something to say to certain arrogant Gentiles, "Israel was broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Don't be high-minded, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you." (Romans 11.20-21)
03-12-2019 04:48 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Yes it's a pejorative and disparaging term.

But I was using it to point out why Christians shouldn't support the modern day state of Israel.

I mean, why support Israel, Jerusalem, and the rebuilding of the Temple when Jesus' death rent the veil in the Temple. So wanting it back is an insult to his death.

Plus Jesus made it plain that Jerusalem was no longer important when he said :
Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Your logic is full of holes. You are using a verse in the Bible to support your assertion, not because the verse tells us to curse Israel, but because a crowd of people cried "His blood be upon us and our children". Yet this ignores the many, many verses where God promises that "those that Bless Israel will be blessed and those that curse Israel will be cursed". It also ignores the fact that this portion is part of both our Old Covenant and New Covenant. It also ignores the fact that these covenants were made with Abraham and David and cannot be broken, and that those of us in the NT have been blessed with believing Abraham and Jesus is the greater David.

Now both the NT and OT are clear that Abraham had children according to the Flesh, but that does not negate the covenant.

Also, our covenant with God is still in effect, otherwise how could He "bless us with every spiritual blessing"? So your assertion that it is foolish to apply verses that are 2,000 years old is plainly idiotic. That is the covenant we have with God sealed and enacted with the Lord's blood.

Finally, the blessings of the covenant are clearly relevant to "politics and the church". since one of the blessings is that God would bless all the nations through us.
03-12-2019 03:51 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
There's a world (and a universe, including the Heavens) of difference between calling my Jewish neighbors "Jesus killers," and believing God's promises to Abraham concerning the land of Israel. The former is bigoted spite, the latter is healthy faith in God's promises.
Yes it's a pejorative and disparaging term.

But I was using it to point out why Christians shouldn't support the modern day state of Israel.

I mean, why support Israel, Jerusalem, and the rebuilding of the Temple when Jesus' death rent the veil in the Temple. So wanting it back is an insult to his death.

Plus Jesus made it plain that Jerusalem was no longer important when he said :
Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
03-12-2019 11:54 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

For those who only know the accepted spiel coming from the MSM, this article will be glossed over as speculation, but for those familiar with the Deep State coverup of Uranium One, coupled with the backroom story behind the Muller investigation based on the Steele Dossier, this analysis is incredible ...


The Trump Dossier and the Poisoning of Sergei Skripal


.
03-12-2019 09:02 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
First. Christians have been questioning the Bible since its inception.

Second. Right on bro Ohio. We can't apply 21st century situations, needs, life, et al, to 2 and 3 thousand yrs ago.

So God giving the promised land to the Israelites during the bronze age shouldn't apply in the 20/21st c.

Yet I've seen Bibi state that God gave them the land in the Bible.

So your principle -- the Pharisees -- supports my position about the state of Israel today.

And I didn't invent the term 'Jesus killers.' It's been used against the Jews for millennia ... by Christians, so called.
There's a world (and a universe, including the Heavens) of difference between calling my Jewish neighbors "Jesus killers," and believing God's promises to Abraham concerning the land of Israel. The former is bigoted spite, the latter is healthy faith in God's promises.
03-12-2019 07:57 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
The children of the Pharisees have been dead for thousands of years. It's down right despicable to call the Jews "Jesus killers" in the 21st Century.
First. Christians have been questioning the Bible since its inception.

Second. Right on bro Ohio. We can't apply 21st century situations, needs, life, et al, to 2 and 3 thousand yrs ago.

So God giving the promised land to the Israelites during the bronze age shouldn't apply in the 20/21st c.

Yet I've seen Bibi state that God gave them the land in the Bible.

So your principle -- the Pharisees -- supports my position about the state of Israel today.

And I didn't invent the term 'Jesus killers.' It's been used against the Jews for millennia ... by Christians, so called.
03-11-2019 05:24 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Because he's on video saying he doesn't need God.

Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
It's better to repent and believe at the end of life, than to turn away from the faith at the end of life. (Ezekiel 18.21-32)

At least Trump now respects the Bible, you however seem to question everything about it.

The children of the Pharisees have been dead for thousands of years. It's down right despicable to call the Jews "Jesus killers" in the 21st Century.
03-11-2019 04:45 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Trump is not a true Christian?

How would you know?
Because he's on video saying he doesn't need God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
And who is supporting "Jesus killers?" Are all Italians guilty, since they are "related" to Pilate?
Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
03-11-2019 02:06 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
I don't know about all of them, but I don't think the socialism being banter about by millennials these days is a orthodox Marxism, nor a Stalin, USSR, type of socialism. I think they're thinking of a Canada type, or British type, or the type found in the other various democratic socialism's, or a Social Democracy. (you can google both to learn more about these types of socialism).

Howbeit, the label socialism has become the bugaboo of the Right. It's their big scary bogeyman, to knock down entirely these ones espousing socialism. Apparently they aren't scaring the millennials.
I agree. Marx brand of communism was an economic policy, whereas the "socialism" policies I support are about human rights and social issues.

I support public school -- that is socialism but it works very well with Capitalism and has been shown to improve the standard of living and the quality of workers.

I support the fire department and police department -- again two socialist policies that we expect everyone to get regardless of whether or not they pay for it.

I would support a universal healthcare -- another key socialist policy.

You cannot simply factor in dollars and cents, you also have to ask if society has an inherent interest in this. It is in societies interest that we all have a police force, fire department, school, and medical care regardless of income.

We used to have a capitalist system for the fire department, if you didn't pay for it they didn't put your fire out. But then the fire would spread and people who had paid would also have their houses burn down, so we realized it is in everyone's best interest to put out all fires, regardless of whether it is a wealthy person or a crack house. The same principle applies to health care.
03-11-2019 01:59 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
There are some contradictions here.

Firstly, Bernie opened the door to Socialism in America. Obama and Hillary pushed forward socialist health care programs, but they were still privatized programs, at least publicly.

Bernie, AOC, Omar and nearly all the 2020 Presidential Candidates are embracing actual Socialism. Millennials now prefer Socialism to Capitalism by a majority, having been convinced of its superiority of Socialism and the evils of Capitalism. "Income Inequality" is the platform of the new Democrats, and Climate Change hysteria provides the catalyst. Most of the Democratic candidates are now fighting each other to move further left.

Secondly, many have been rightly saying that the biggest danger that the Jews and Israel now face are these Leftist Jews like Bernie Sanders. George Soros is a Jew who hates both Israel and the US. How can this be? Easy. I am a German, but I stand against Germany. No contradiction here, except for the misinformed. After my grandparents left Germany, they started two world wars. Today Germany is funding Russia and Iran, two of the world's worst geo-political threats.

So Bernie conveniently plays both sides. He is anti-semitic hiding behind his Jewish blood. Bernie hates Trump, Israel's biggest supporter.
I didn't say Bernie wouldn't want to be labeled socialist, or anti Israel. I said Biden wouldn't want to be labeled Socialist, and the Democratic party doesn't want to be labeled anti semitic.
03-11-2019 12:05 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
And I would think that you would have a lot more sense than these millennials.

Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Castro, Chavez, etc. were all socialists, yet you support the same policies that brought these dictators into power. They all promised to end the evils of Capitalism, only to produce something far worse. There may still be income inequality with Capitalism, but at least there is income. With socialism, there is still inequality, yet no income.

It sure seems from your posts, that you are ready to accept anything, including socailism, as long as MSM is for it and Trump is gone. Careful what you wish for.
First of all, I do have more sense.

But this subject is complicated. America is a democracy. So if the millennials vote in a type of socialism there's nothing we can do about it if they have majority.

I don't know about all of them, but I don't think the socialism being banter about by millennials these days is a orthodox Marxism, nor a Stalin, USSR, type of socialism. I think they're thinking of a Canada type, or British type, or the type found in the other various democratic socialism's, or a Social Democracy. (you can google both to learn more about these types of socialism).

Howbeit, the label socialism has become the bugaboo of the Right. It's their big scary bogeyman, to knock down entirely these ones espousing socialism. Apparently they aren't scaring the millennials.

For example, this morning I picked up a article on Drudge Report (is that a fake news site, I can't keep up with which is which any more?) that pointed out a Devin Nunes tweet, where while at a California restaurant , when ordering a drink, was asked if he wanted a plastic straw.

He busted out with the "Straw Police" and knocked socialism. However it was quickly pointed out that his family enjoys government substitutes for their farmland ; which is way more socialism then control of the use of plastic straws. Proving ... In the end, Nunes turned out to look like such an idiot that all the Mojo was drained out of his attack on socialism. He's a hypocrite.
03-11-2019 10:18 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
You must be getting that from fake news. I know cuz it's on Mail Online :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...vey-finds.html
And I would think that you would have a lot more sense than these millennials.

Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Castro, Chavez, etc. were all socialists, yet you support the same policies that brought these dictators into power. They all promised to end the evils of Capitalism, only to produce something far worse. There may still be income inequality with Capitalism, but at least there is income. With socialism, there is still inequality, yet no income.

It sure seems from your posts, that you are ready to accept anything, including socailism, as long as MSM is for it and Trump is gone. Careful what you wish for.
03-11-2019 09:33 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Millennials now prefer Socialism to Capitalism by a majority, having been convinced of its superiority of Socialism and the evils of Capitalism.
You must be getting that from fake news. I know cuz it's on Mail Online :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...vey-finds.html
03-11-2019 08:54 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
That's easy for Trump. He's not a true Christian. And true Christians wouldn't support the Jesus killers.
Trump is not a true Christian?

How would you know? How do we know you are?

And who is supporting "Jesus killers?" Are all Italians guilty, since they are "related" to Pilate?
03-11-2019 08:47 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Trump, Israel's biggest supporter.
That's easy for Trump. He's not a true Christian. And true Christians wouldn't support the Jesus killers.
03-11-2019 08:34 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Pelosi has already made it clear she thinks their Green initiative is foolish. Bernie and Biden are going to want to silence AOC's extreme views and Omar's views. Being branded as Socialist and anti Jewish is not something Biden is going to want.
There are some contradictions here.

Firstly, Bernie opened the door to Socialism in America. Obama and Hillary pushed forward socialist health care programs, but they were still privatized programs, at least publicly.

Bernie, AOC, Omar and nearly all the 2020 Presidential Candidates are embracing actual Socialism. Millennials now prefer Socialism to Capitalism by a majority, having been convinced of its superiority of Socialism and the evils of Capitalism. "Income Inequality" is the platform of the new Democrats, and Climate Change hysteria provides the catalyst. Most of the Democratic candidates are now fighting each other to move further left.

Secondly, many have been rightly saying that the biggest danger that the Jews and Israel now face are these Leftist Jews like Bernie Sanders. George Soros is a Jew who hates both Israel and the US. How can this be? Easy. I am a German, but I stand against Germany. No contradiction here, except for the misinformed. After my grandparents left Germany, they started two world wars. Today Germany is funding Russia and Iran, two of the world's worst geo-political threats.

So Bernie conveniently plays both sides. He is anti-semitic hiding behind his Jewish blood. Bernie hates Trump, Israel's biggest supporter.
03-11-2019 08:09 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
It looks like AOC and Ilhan Omar are putting themselves into the crosshairs, they will be seeing the same treatment that Trump has seen, let's see how they do.
With AiPAC after them, it will get ugly. They'll be treated like they are Amalekites. They've got Rashida Tlaib in their crosshairs too.
03-11-2019 07:44 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Crosshairs? Same treatment as Trump? Hardly!

They are now the stars on stage.

Omar is the voice of the anti-Jew and anti-Israel Democratic Party.

AOC is the voice of anti-Capitalism Democratic Socialist Party.
Trump had his moment in the sun, he was the star of the Republican primaries, there was a time when he dominated the air waves just like them.

However AOC has already having accusations flying concerning hypocrisy and corruption. Omar has already had censure vote which she narrowly dodged. We also can see a gearing up of Democrats to run against her. They are about to discover how short 2 years is.

AOC is going to own the rejection of Amazon and is being blamed by many Democrats in this state, including the governor. If NY goes into a recession you can be sure she doesn't get reelected.

AOC and Omar are going to learn about how important fund raising is. I imagine whoever runs against them will have no problem raising funds, whereas many who might have funded Omar and AOC may pull out. Also, since they will probably both see the toughest challenge in the primaries they cannot expect to get anything from the Democratic party.

Without friends (after insulting Obama I doubt Omar has too many allies even among the Democrats) likewise with AOC. So what committee will they be named to? In public the leaders of the party will be very supportive, behind the scenes they will be marginalized.

Pelosi has already made it clear she thinks their Green initiative is foolish. Bernie and Biden are going to want to silence AOC's extreme views and Omar's views. Being branded as Socialist and anti Jewish is not something Biden is going to want.
03-11-2019 06:55 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
It looks like AOC and Ilhan Omar are putting themselves into the crosshairs, they will be seeing the same treatment that Trump has seen, let's see how they do.
Crosshairs? Same treatment as Trump? Hardly!

They are now the stars on stage.

Omar is the voice of the anti-Jew and anti-Israel Democratic Party.

AOC is the voice of anti-Capitalism Democratic Socialist Party.
03-11-2019 05:53 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

It looks like AOC and Ilhan Omar are putting themselves into the crosshairs, they will be seeing the same treatment that Trump has seen, let's see how they do.
03-10-2019 05:40 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
but obviously you only read that British tabloid.
Ya got me. But I screwed up and posted something from the AP. My bad. Now let me go back and hang on Mail Online ... where I live and get all my news and information, only. Ya got me big time bro. Kudos.
03-10-2019 03:46 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Firstly, the is talk about political forecasts, whereas I have been addressing media bias, which can only be resolved by looking at the facts. It would also help if MSM owned their reporting. Perhaps these Sandmann lawsuits will help.
One thing he learned from a 21 year study with tens of thousand forecasts was that there is an inverse relationship between fame and accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Secondly, weather forecasting has never been the issue. Climate forecasting is, but on the other thread. Here my issues are two-fold. One is forecasting, and the other is the causes behind the climate change.
The correct way to judge a climate model is to compare the results with a "no change" forecast. If the model is more accurate than a "no change" forecast would have been then you have made an improvement. If you then can make some improvements on that first model with a second model you are now on a path that leads you to a really good model. It doesn't matter if the improvement seems minor.

In his research he discovered the forecasters fell into two groups (all were highly educated professionals) which he called "hedgehogs" and "foxes". This is based on the poem "foxes know many things but hedgehogs know one big thing". The hedgehogs were dominated by one big idea (climate change, supply side economics, Laffer curve, etc). All information they got would go to either supporting their theory or else would be discounted as insignificant. They often used words like "furthermore", "in addition to this", "moreover", etc. The foxes on the other hand know many things, they use terms like "but", "on the other hand", "however", etc. Hedgehogs not only do worse than guessing, but they do especially bad in questions that fall into their specialty. Also, most TV pundits are "hedgehogs" pushing their pet theory.
03-10-2019 03:09 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
But both parties have morphed. The pubbies are no longer what they use to be. And the demmies have changed too ... but are still just a bunch of fups.

To be honest, both parties are tag-teaming us. Cuz to both parties it's all about money.
Trump don't even take a salary.

Except for cutting the debt, Trump has passed every single conservative, Republican check list.

The Democrats, however, have completely abandoned their original platform, except for doubling down on abortion. I have posted numerous articles about these changes, but obviously you only read that British tabloid.
03-10-2019 02:26 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Here's one that qualifies as Politics and the Church.

Sorry if I'm posting from a possible fake news site. But non- fake news sites have grown so narrow, it's impossible to get to all the news.

Here's one from Associated Press:

Bibi declares Israel to be a racist nation.
JERUSALEM (AP) — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel is the homeland “only of the Jewish people,”
Israel “is the national state, not of all its citizens, but only of the Jewish people.”
https://apnews.com/8251a4e5a4744d7bbd899d4f1a048a0b
03-10-2019 02:04 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Wow so much misinformation, bro.

All the facts of history show us that the Democratic Party supports bigoted racism. Who violated Native Americans? Who fought for slavery? Who gave us Jim Crow? Who refuses to apologize for anti-semitism?
But both parties have morphed. The pubbies are no longer what they use to be. And the demmies have changed too ... but are still just a bunch of fups.

To be honest, both parties are tag-teaming us. Cuz to both parties it's all about money.
03-10-2019 01:18 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

This is what happens when Socialists are elected.

Experts: NYC Could Go Bankrupt for First Time in 40 Years

The economy is booming, unemployment is down, welfare and food stamps are down, but DiBlasio spending has outpaced all of the savings. Yet they disingenuously blame Trump for SALT deductions. Obviously the Socialist's plans to force all the Billionaires to pay for their New Green Deal is not working out very well.

AOC's plans can't even work in the richest city on earth! The city with the most trains! How are they going to work anywhere else?

If NYC had any conservatives, they would be marching in the streets for AOC's impeachment. How about "NYC Lives Matter." Or "Occupy Main Street." Instead of AntiFa, we need "AntiSo," Anti-Socialists.
03-10-2019 01:04 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I am reading a book by Tetlock. We are all familiar with his work, and Ohio and others on this forum have paraphrased it repeatedly, even if you are not familiar with the name. In 2006 he had a very influential book Expert Political Judgement: How Good is it?
Firstly, the is talk about political forecasts, whereas I have been addressing media bias, which can only be resolved by looking at the facts. It would also help if MSM owned their reporting. Perhaps these Sandmann lawsuits will help.

Secondly, weather forecasting has never been the issue. Climate forecasting is, but on the other thread. Here my issues are two-fold. One is forecasting, and the other is the causes behind the climate change.
03-10-2019 12:49 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

I am reading a book by Tetlock. We are all familiar with his work, and Ohio and others on this forum have paraphrased it repeatedly, even if you are not familiar with the name. In 2006 he had a very influential book Expert Political Judgement: How Good is it? The results of that work are commonly paraphrased saying that these political forecasts by experts are as good as a monkey throwing darts. Here is an example, taken from Amazon.com, a reviewer of that book: "The definitive work on this question. . . . Tetlock systematically collected a vast number of individual forecasts about political and economic events, made by recognised experts over a period of more than 20 years. He showed that these forecasts were not very much better than making predictions by chance, and also that experts performed only slightly better than the average person who was casually informed about the subject in hand."---Gavyn Davies, Financial Times

The problem is that this is very misleading and misses the crucial point of his research which is that there are some people who are remarkably accurate forecasters. If you look at the top 10% they are reliable, accurate, and consistent. He has been working on the science of forecasting, and has shown excellent year on year improvement.

The process is very simple: create a model, forecast, evaluate the result. Based on evaluation make adjustments to the model, forecast, evaluate, etc. The more times you do this the more precise and reliable you get. This is why weather forecasts have improved so much, this is the process they follow. This is also why the pundits who complain about climate change models being inaccurate are morons. This is the process you follow. Every time you are "inaccurate" you are learning how to weigh each factor, how much more data you need, and a thousand other ways to improve the forecast. It is a process. The issue is not if the model can perfectly predict the outcome, but can it predict it more accurately than the previous model. As long as we improve from one iteration to the next we will get to that very accurate model eventually.

In science we do that, but apparently no one is measuring and grading the accuracy of political pundits. No one is holding them to account. There is no rating system for their reliability. So whereas a car is rated and compared and the results are available for all to see, no one holds these pundits accountable. That is the service that needs to take place.

What Tetlock did was encourage more than a thousand people to participate in making political forecasts each day, 9am EST. Then they would grade them. They would take the 100 or 200 burning questions of the day, and they would try to keep the forecasts between 1 month and 5 years, but mainly in the 1 month to 18 month range.

It seems to me that we could create a "good housekeeping seal of approval" for pundits. Make them do this for 1 year, grade them, and only those who score at the "expert" level get the seal.

In addition there is a science to how they go about preparing these forecasts, so there could be a graduate degree in this. For example, someone with an undergraduate degree in Economics might do a graduate degree in forecasting.
03-10-2019 11:00 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Wow so much misinformation, bro.

All the facts of history show us that the Democratic Party supports bigoted racism. Who violated Native Americans? Who fought for slavery? Who gave us Jim Crow? Who refuses to apologize for anti-semitism?

But the Media daily charges Trump and his constituents with it, and you buy into the scam. Case in point, just look at the two recent stories of Sandmann and Smollett.

Why don't you examine facts, rather than believe the smear campaign?

I posted many stories here, and you never responded to the facts, except with racist characterizations from the media.


Nothing personal here.
03-10-2019 09:21 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Democrats are all talk here. News has come out that neither Bernie nor Hillary treated their staff fairly.
Granted. Good. So it's not a Demmie thing, and cuz I support equal pay doesn't make me a lefty. Now we're getting somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Both parties favor the Banking Industry.
Another reason I don't support either party. They're all on the take.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Obama gave the banks Trillions to rescue them.
And so did Bush. And Reagan, btw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Both parties break records with the debt.
But pubbies break records.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Presently neither Party is willing to cut the debt because they won't get elected.
Granted. But who gave big tax cuts to the rich?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
I read your posts. You side with the far Left every time, which is the same as saying you oppose Trump every time.
You offend me. Cuz I'm guided by my conscience you call my conscience party aligned, and party guided. It's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
You seem to quote that British Tabloid Daily Mail the most.
That's cuz I get many of the Daily Mail's from Drudge Report. Take it up with Matt.

And I know I've quoted from Fox too. You don't give me kudos for that. I think you have Left-Eye ; an eye looking out for any trace of the left.

What about this one? I guess I'm such a lefty that I wouldn't post :

Rick Wiles says liberals are going to put conservatives in concentration camps.

http://deadstate.org/christian-tv-ho...tration-camps/

That's because it would make, according to you "my" party, look crazy. The truth is your are right. "My party" is more than pathetic. That's why I'm a registered Independent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Your hatred for Trump is way over the top. You might consider therapy.
I know. I should love that RINO ... like you. Is there such a thing as TDS therapy? Do they have anti-anti-TDS meds?

[quote=Ohio]I never read InfoWars.[quote]
Okay, his Youtube channel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
I do read Breitbart.
I know. I've chided you for that, as well as Alex Jones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Occasionally Fox.
You must get your Fox thru Trump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
I prefer American Thinker, American Spectator, Citizen Free Press, Daily Caller, Sara Carter, Judicial Watch, S.Attkisson, One News Now, and a bunch of others.
And I've read them all, in my daily search for news. Don't I hang on them? No. I guess you can fairly fault me for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
I'm still waiting for a story where the Conservative outlets get it wrong and the Left gets it right. It may happen, but nearly 100% of the time MSM gets it wrong, or biased, or half truths, or pure lies, or sins of omission.
But Rachel Maddow is winning in the ratings. I don't watch Maddow, or MSNBC. I read that on Drudge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
I saw video documentaries by that Cold Case AZ Sheriff using forensics experts to expose Obama's birth certificate and selective service card. No expert has disputed this evidence.
And Joe Arpaio is still spouting Birtherism.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/birth-certificate/


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
The media merely mocks and smears the reputations of these guys.
But you like it when Trump does it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Obama should have been checked out on Ancestry.com before running for President.
And Trump should have been checked out mentally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Personally I would like to see Obama move back to Chicago and do some good helping inner city youths. They could use life-skills coaching far more than a billion dollar Presidential Library. Do some good Obama! Sorry to say, Obama did nothing for his race. That's a fact. He only stirred racial tensions, starting with Trayvon Martin and that Cambridge case, where he jumped to conclusions to create race issues.
And Trump doesn't stir racial tensions? What planet do you live on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Obama was clearly a Muslam.
If so, not a good one. He doesn't pray 5 times a day to Mecca. But Obama wasn't good at anything. He wasn't even a very good socialist.

Look. This thread is "Politics and the Church." Not "Ohio and Harold." Maybe to try to keep it on topic, since you are way more inclined to take posts personal than I, you should start a thread called, "Brother Ohio and Brother Harold get personal"
03-10-2019 08:33 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
The FBI has long standing rules in place about their agents having affairs, yet this was all brushed aside with Peter Strzok and Lisa Page. Why? Because they hated Trump! They were the "good guys." They get to break all the rules.
Trump has long exposed the Deep State bias and corruption on the 7th Floor of the FBI Building. But this was never supposed to happen again.

Forgetting Robert Hanssen scandal's failures: FBI saw agent's affair as security risk but took little action
03-10-2019 08:02 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
This is because you have "left and right". If you had multiple candidates you would have the "green" candidate, the "Evangelical" candidate, the "fiscal conservative" candidate, the "human rights" candidate, etc.
American politics is like a huge tree starting to fall. It used to sway left to right with the winds blowing in each election cycle. Today the socialists have taken an axe to the tree, and it's falling left. The speed of the fall is increasing.

I read a report about NYC this morning that said it all. DiBlasio's leftist policies, giveaways and higher taxes, are starting to produce results. Not good ones either. And socialists like AOC just screwed them big time over the Amazon plans. The top 1% are already pays 50% of the taxes, and AOC wants more! She wants it all! So the rich are leaving NY. Makes sense, don't it? Wait a second, not so fast, folks.

NY is now going after these rich emigrants big time. They want back taxes. For past years. It's going to get real ugly here folks. They put Manafort in jail for life for not paying $1.4 million in back taxes, just think what they can do to you! This is what always happens to socialism. As long as they can steal money from rich folks, socialism works. Then the tipping point is reached, and the tree comes crashing down. Fast. Think Venezuela.

To his credit, Trump wanted to bring home all the overseas moneys, by providing tax incentives. The economy starting booming. To the socialists, however, this is evil. This is inequality. Capitalism must be destroyed. And these voices in the Democratic Party are growing louder every day, fueled by the media. Bernie merely opened the door for all the socialists to come out of the closet. When Howard Starbucks Schultz said "whoa," the Dems trashed him. There's no going back. They are foaming at the mouth with new found power. This latest House bill is incredible. Just read it.

I can understand young and dumb Millennials buying into these failed policies, but when old guys on this forum buy into it, "Houston, we got a problem!" Sadly, the tree will crash down on all of us before they realize we got screwed. Perhaps if all the rich Democrats, like Schultz and Bezos and Bloomberg and Buffett and Gates and others, see the tree falling, they will change course, but I doubt it, since they are all rich enough to park their wealth off shore.
03-09-2019 07:28 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I'm all for less anger and resentment building up, but I don't see it happening, unless the government controls the media, like in China or Russia. In Western democracies, the Left controls much of the media, and it has a vested interest in creating anger and resentment.
Democracy is like two wolves and a sheep voting on what is for dinner.

No way I trust the government to control the media. This is where we need men of faith.
03-09-2019 12:12 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I'm all for less anger and resentment building up, but I don't see it happening, unless the government controls the media, like in China or Russia. In Western democracies, the Left controls much of the media, and it has a vested interest in creating anger and resentment.
This is because you have "left and right". If you had multiple candidates you would have the "green" candidate, the "Evangelical" candidate, the "fiscal conservative" candidate, the "human rights" candidate, etc.
03-09-2019 06:12 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Every single election has a single winner, as a result you force a two party system of Democrats and Republicans. However, if you have 10 winners it opens the door for a lot of parties. Since we have many states that have 10 or more representatives we could do that. Then you allow ideas held by 10% of the population to be represented, there is more opportunity for people to be heard and expressed, so less anger and resentment builds up.
I'm all for less anger and resentment building up, but I don't see it happening, unless the government controls the media, like in China or Russia. In Western democracies, the Left controls much of the media, and it has a vested interest in creating anger and resentment.
03-09-2019 04:31 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Sounded like you desired radical changes.

Today we have multiple parties and Independents. What about the Green Party and the Libertarian Party?
Every single election has a single winner, as a result you force a two party system of Democrats and Republicans. However, if you have 10 winners it opens the door for a lot of parties. Since we have many states that have 10 or more representatives we could do that. Then you allow ideas held by 10% of the population to be represented, there is more opportunity for people to be heard and expressed, so less anger and resentment builds up.
03-09-2019 03:38 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
How does the constitution lock us into a 2 party system? They want representatives to be based on population and for every state, still the same. They want 2 senators per state, still the same.
Sounded like you desired radical changes.

Today we have multiple parties and Independents. What about the Green Party and the Libertarian Party?
03-09-2019 02:23 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
So you would prefer something like the Knesset?

At this point, being locked into the Constitution, I cannot foresee such a dramatic change. We do have multiple parties, but there are really only two.

My fear is the coming disaster. Something will trigger a meltdown. Our huge debt will prevent the government from buying our way out of disaster. With so many now favorable to socialism, all private wealth would be confiscated. We would all be reduced to poverty, but we all would be the same -- just as Socialism mandates -- but we all know the ruling class would have more. All are equal, but some are always more equal, eh?
How does the constitution lock us into a 2 party system? They want representatives to be based on population and for every state, still the same. They want 2 senators per state, still the same.

Initially the vice president was the guy who came in second in the voting. That seems confused, but it indicates the founders were not trying to establish a 2 party system.
03-09-2019 02:21 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
No not at all, but the volume for him is only a 2 or 3, while Kavanaugh was a 10.
Yes, well his position in the political spectrum is a 2 or 3 whereas Kavanaugh as Supreme court justice is a 10.
03-08-2019 08:48 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
The underlying problem with all of this nasty political smear campaigns is the two party system. It is very difficult to win on policy when any real change is going to be shut down by a system run by an oligarchy. So then the best way to get elected is smear the other party.

Instead, if a state elects 6 people to the House of representatives, let the 6 candidates with the most votes get elected. Why divide the state into 6 districts with 6 elections. Get rid of the two party system and you will see representatives forming fluid coalitions to get different laws enacted. You won't be able to smear a "party" since there might be 10 different parties. The larger states elect more than 10 representatives every 2 years. You could still have 2 senators per state, that would allow 3 parties to rise to the top, but they would still need to be able to work together with all the various representatives, so that would keep them in a mode of working with others. If both senators were elected every 6 years for a particular state then the two with the most votes get in, again preventing a 2 party system.
So you would prefer something like the Knesset?

At this point, being locked into the Constitution, I cannot foresee such a dramatic change. We do have multiple parties, but there are really only two.

My fear is the coming disaster. Something will trigger a meltdown. Our huge debt will prevent the government from buying our way out of disaster. With so many now favorable to socialism, all private wealth would be confiscated. We would all be reduced to poverty, but we all would be the same -- just as Socialism mandates -- but we all know the ruling class would have more. All are equal, but some are always more equal, eh?
03-08-2019 08:34 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Once again, my point is simple, if this had been done behind closed doors you discourage any political motive. What is the point? I think it is undeniable that it is a political play and that would only be effective if it is done in public.

The problem is there is not enough evidence to prove it is false. Once again, it is poor practice to judge the situation without evidence. The undeniable evidence is that Feinstein's behavior was shameful, political, and needs to be dealt with.
There is plenty of evidence that Blasey-Ford was a false witness.
03-08-2019 08:32 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Are you saying no reporters, media-types, activists and protesters have been screaming for Fairfax's neck?
No not at all, but the volume for him is only a 2 or 3, while Kavanaugh was a 10.
03-08-2019 06:32 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

The underlying problem with all of this nasty political smear campaigns is the two party system. It is very difficult to win on policy when any real change is going to be shut down by a system run by an oligarchy. So then the best way to get elected is smear the other party.

Instead, if a state elects 6 people to the House of representatives, let the 6 candidates with the most votes get elected. Why divide the state into 6 districts with 6 elections. Get rid of the two party system and you will see representatives forming fluid coalitions to get different laws enacted. You won't be able to smear a "party" since there might be 10 different parties. The larger states elect more than 10 representatives every 2 years. You could still have 2 senators per state, that would allow 3 parties to rise to the top, but they would still need to be able to work together with all the various representatives, so that would keep them in a mode of working with others. If both senators were elected every 6 years for a particular state then the two with the most votes get in, again preventing a 2 party system.
03-08-2019 06:21 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
You conveniently left out the part where reporters, media-types, activists, and protesters were screaming every hour of the day for Kavanaugh's neck.
Are you saying no reporters, media-types, activists and protesters have been screaming for Fairfax's neck?
03-08-2019 06:19 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
The facts of the case prove truth or false witness. When every single claim of CB-F gets shredded with simple questioning, then we know it's not a matter of memory loss but memory "fabrications." Every part of her story was contrived and made up, and has gaping holes in her credibility. Not a shred of facts or collaboration?

The Polygraph was a lie, the witnesses she put forth rejected her, she lied about flying airplanes. Why? So that seasoned Democratic strategists would have lots of time to coach her testimony. There's no other reason.
Ever find out about where she taught? It's a training ground for feminist activists. She even lied about her house having two front doors being the reason for her therapy sessions.

More from John Nolte . . .
Once again, my point is simple, if this had been done behind closed doors you discourage any political motive. What is the point? I think it is undeniable that it is a political play and that would only be effective if it is done in public.

The problem is there is not enough evidence to prove it is false. Once again, it is poor practice to judge the situation without evidence. The undeniable evidence is that Feinstein's behavior was shameful, political, and needs to be dealt with.
03-08-2019 05:25 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
There have been democrats which have called on him to resign. However, he denies it, asked for an FBI investigation, and is right to stand his ground. Kavanaugh stood his ground and was confirmed. He deserves the same presumption of innocence as anyone else. It would be a terrible precedent that a politician has to resign every time there is an accusation. That would simply encourage false accusations.

On the other hand the accusations are very public, the FBI has been called into investigate, there is no reason why this is not taken to a conclusion -- is there enough evidence to support an indictment? Yes or no?
You conveniently left out the part where reporters, media-types, activists, and protesters were screaming every hour of the day for Kavanaugh's neck.
03-08-2019 05:22 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
You don't know that she made it up, it is equally likely that it is true.
The facts of the case prove truth or false witness. When every single claim of CB-F gets shredded with simple questioning, then we know it's not a matter of memory loss but memory "fabrications." Every part of her story was contrived and made up, and has gaping holes in her credibility. Not a shred of facts or collaboration?

The Polygraph was a lie, the witnesses she put forth rejected her, she lied about flying airplanes. Why? So that seasoned Democratic strategists would have lots of time to coach her testimony. There's no other reason.
Quote:
A sworn statement released by a man alleging to be Ford’s former boyfriend appears to have answered one very important question. During her testimony last week, why did sex crimes prosecutor Rachel Mitchell ask Ford if she had ever helped someone prepare for a polygraph? It was such an out-of-nowhere question, a seeming waste of time.

Ford answered that she had “never” helped anyone prepare for a polygraph. Well, now we likely know why. The Senate Judiciary Committee might have known about this former boyfriend, and that under penalty of imprisonment, he would tell them Ford once used her skills in psychology to help a friend prepare for a polygraph. -- John Nolte
Ever find out about where she taught? It's a training ground for feminist activists. She even lied about her house having two front doors being the reason for her therapy sessions.

More from John Nolte . . .
Quote:
Then we come to the most damaging elements, the facts and contradictions that actually do undermine Dr. Ford’s credibility:
  • From A to Z she has aligned herself with the far-left. Look at the politicians and newspaper (Washington Post) she approached, the highly partisan lawyers she hired, and the talking points she parrots to stall Kavanaugh’s confirmation (afraid to fly, demanding an FBI investigation).
  • She lied about her fear of flying. There is no question about this. In order to stall the Committee, her attorneys claimed the 1982 event had so damaged Dr. Ford she cannot be in confined spaces, most especially an airplane; so the hearing would have to wait a week. But now we know she flies all the time. Without being sarcastic, you can call her a world traveler. She travels the world for pleasure. Travel is her passion.
  • There is no clean way to lay out exactly what happened, but there is no doubt Dr. Ford’s activist lawyers received the Committee’s offer to fly out to California to meet with Ford in private, and that Team Ford turned down this offer for mercenary reasons: to slow down the confirmation process (the number one goal of Democrats) and to avoid an in-depth interview of Dr. Ford by a skilled professional.
  • Every single witness — Every. Single. One. — named by Ford refutes her testimony. Every person she named as being at that house party either says they remember no such thing or that it did not happen. One of those witnesses is her lifelong friend, Leland Ingham Keyser, which bring me to something that must be said…
  • Again, I know I am not supposed to say this, but I thought Dr. Ford’s mask slipped more than a little when, during her Thursday testimony, she dropped her lifelong friend in the grease and did so in front of the whole world. Ford basically called Keyser a liar who was too sickly and ill to bother to tell the truth.
  • This may be a small thing, but a college professor with a PhD doesn’t know what “exculpatory” means?
  • Dr. Ford’s polygraph is a joke. She was only asked two very broad questions about a “statement” — Is any part of your statement false? Did you make up any part of your statement? — Because she will not supply video or audio of the polygraph session, how can we know what statement she was asked about? There were no specific questions about the actual event, Kavanaugh, or an attempted sexual assault. Polygraphs are sketchy enough, this one is a farce.
  • Ford refuses to give the Committee her therapist’s notes, even after she showed them (or part of them) to the Washington Post. When your credibility is on the line, you hold nothing back.
03-08-2019 04:54 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
What happened to #IBelieveHer when it comes to VA Democratic Lt. Governor Fairfax?
There have been democrats which have called on him to resign. However, he denies it, asked for an FBI investigation, and is right to stand his ground. Kavanaugh stood his ground and was confirmed. He deserves the same presumption of innocence as anyone else. It would be a terrible precedent that a politician has to resign every time there is an accusation. That would simply encourage false accusations.

On the other hand the accusations are very public, the FBI has been called into investigate, there is no reason why this is not taken to a conclusion -- is there enough evidence to support an indictment? Yes or no?

The Smullet case is a good example of the dangers of rushing to judgement.
03-08-2019 04:49 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Women like Lousy-Ford can dream up an accusation with a guy who used to live in her same state, become a celebrated heroine, and make a Million dollars.
You don't know that she made it up, it is equally likely that it is true.

My issue was not with her coming forward (I believe if she is telling the truth then she should have come forward). My issue is that this should have been done behind closed doors and during the hearings months earlier. Waiting till the 11th hour and then grandstanding like this made this a blatantly obvious political ploy. Not by Ford, but by Sen. Dianne Feinstein.
03-08-2019 12:30 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
There are lots of protections already in place. Google discovered that it was the men who were underpaid, not the women.

Much of the so called "glass ceiling" is bogus. If a woman drops out of the job market for a few years to raise her kids it is reasonable that when she returns to the job market she is making less and that she has not gotten to the CEO level at the same rate as men. Too often the statistics used to bolster the case about bias towards women is using data that has not taken this into account. You can't simply say "women on average make less than men so therefore there is an inherent bias." Likewise, a woman might not drop out of the job market but she might refuse to be relocated, or to take a promotion that requires she fly all over the world. These factors have to be taken into account.
I read some stories about how the #MeToo movement has damaged women's opportunities, especially in executive positions in the Financial sector.

Netflix Bans Crew Workers from Looking at Each Other for Over 5 Seconds to Fight Sexual Harassment. How can women and men work together when rules like this exist?

The FBI has long standing rules in place about their agents having affairs, yet this was all brushed aside with Peter Strzok and Lisa Page. Why? Because they hated Trump! They were the "good guys." They get to break all the rules.

Women like Lousy-Ford can dream up an accusation with a guy who used to live in her same state, become a celebrated heroine, and make a Million dollars. Women like that have little incentive to be honest. What happened to #IBelieveHer when it comes to VA Democratic Lt. Governor Fairfax?
03-08-2019 11:36 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
What about equal pay for women? I'm for that. Is that a Demmie thing?
Democrats are all talk here. News has come out that neither Bernie nor Hillary treated their staff fairly.
Quote:
I hate the guy, but he did put us into the black. While Trump is breaking records with debt. And what about undoing Glass–Steagall, allowing commercial banks to become investment banks? Deregulation you like?
Both parties favor the Banking Industry. ZNP is more familiar with that. Obama gave the banks Trillions to rescue them. Both parties break records with the debt. Presently neither Party is willing to cut the debt because they won't get elected.

Quote:
You have no idea of what I follow. But you have stated you follow Fox, Breitbart, and Infowars.
I read your posts. You side with the far Left every time, which is the same as saying you oppose Trump every time. You seem to quote that British Tabloid Daily Mail the most. Your hatred for Trump is way over the top. You might consider therapy.

I never read InfoWars. I do read Breitbart. Occasionally Fox. I prefer American Thinker, American Spectator, Citizen Free Press, Daily Caller, Sara Carter, Judicial Watch, S.Attkisson, One News Now, and a bunch of others.

I'm still waiting for a story where the Conservative outlets get it wrong and the Left gets it right. It may happen, but nearly 100% of the time MSM gets it wrong, or biased, or half truths, or pure lies, or sins of omission. Oh btw, how about some Russian Collusion?

Quote:
Plus, you're a Birther that wants Obama to go back to Kenya ... to pray on a rug 5 times a day.
I saw video documentaries by that Cold Case AZ Sheriff using forensics experts to expose Obama's birth certificate and selective service card. No expert has disputed this evidence. The media merely mocks and smears the reputations of these guys. That is not a Fair Press, rather a corrupt propaganda operation. Obama should have been checked out on Ancestry.com before running for President.

Personally I would like to see Obama move back to Chicago and do some good helping inner city youths. They could use life-skills coaching far more than a billion dollar Presidential Library. Do some good Obama! Sorry to say, Obama did nothing for his race. That's a fact. He only stirred racial tensions, starting with Trayvon Martin and that Cambridge case, where he jumped to conclusions to create race issues.

Obama was clearly a Muslam. He even said he was -- talking to George Stuffitupalouse. He was only elected because he deceived the American people. Obama was a Manchurian Con job. Obama is in bed with racists like Farakkhan, race pimps like Al Sharpton, and Commies like Valerie Jarrett.
03-08-2019 09:52 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
What about equal pay for women? I'm for that. Is that a Demmie thing?
There are lots of protections already in place. Google discovered that it was the men who were underpaid, not the women.

Much of the so called "glass ceiling" is bogus. If a woman drops out of the job market for a few years to raise her kids it is reasonable that when she returns to the job market she is making less and that she has not gotten to the CEO level at the same rate as men. Too often the statistics used to bolster the case about bias towards women is using data that has not taken this into account. You can't simply say "women on average make less than men so therefore there is an inherent bias." Likewise, a woman might not drop out of the job market but she might refuse to be relocated, or to take a promotion that requires she fly all over the world. These factors have to be taken into account.
03-08-2019 09:47 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Democrats platform

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
All minimum wage does is cause inflation, which hurts those, like retirees, who are on a fixed income. There is no end to the so-called "minimum," because inflation strips the buying power of yesterday's minimum wage, making it unacceptable today.

Socialism increases the speed of this destructive cycle. 20 years ago Hugo Chavez instituted socialistic policies like "living wage" in Venezuela. Today that wage is totally useless, as is yesterday's wage for those who can find work, and inflation has hit the moon.
Yes, I don't support increasing minimum wage, but I do support changing the law to require a minimum daily wage. The only exception is if an employee signs a waver saying they prefer part time. They could fill out a bubble sheet that would then be sent to the government, scanned in, and a robo call and letter could be sent to the employee where they verify that they were not coerced to say this. Plus on the poster in every employer it would explain this law.

Helping the poor is very beneficial -- less recidivism for felons, improved health standards on jobs, improved safety, better retention of employees, less childhood neglect.

But the Democrats for some reason keep pushing an increase of the minimum wage. This simply causes companies to outsource jobs overseas, and replace workers with robots and machinery. This hurts our economy and hurts the workers who get fired or have their hours cut.
03-08-2019 08:33 AM
Ohio
Re: Democrats platform

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
RAISE INCOMES AND RESTORE ECONOMIC SECURITY FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS
Raising Workers’ Wages -- I disagree that raising the hourly wage is all that helpful. Instead I would like there to be a minimum daily wage. It can be $64, basically 8 times the minimum wage of $8. I think that would be much more helpful. Of course , there has to be a waiver for students and those that want to work part time.
All minimum wage does is cause inflation, which hurts those, like retirees, who are on a fixed income. There is no end to the so-called "minimum," because inflation strips the buying power of yesterday's minimum wage, making it unacceptable today.

Socialism increases the speed of this destructive cycle. 20 years ago Hugo Chavez instituted socialistic policies like "living wage" in Venezuela. Today that wage is totally useless, as is yesterday's wage for those who can find work, and inflation has hit the moon.
03-08-2019 08:19 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I asked you a question about where you differed from the new Socialist policies of the Democratic Party, and you hit me with this?
  • I project my own obsession on you
  • I am on a some watch list
  • I am a dangerous right wing extremest
  • I am OCD, and must admit I have the disorder
I have stated some of my conservative policies as anti-abortion, anti-judicial-activism, secure borders with legal immigration, equal justice for all, fair and balanced journalism that is accountable, against excessive government regulations, pro-American jobs, fairness in the workplace, etc.
What about equal pay for women? I'm for that. Is that a Demmie thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
Even Bill Clinton after 1994 governed this way.
I hate the guy, but he did put us into the black. While Trump is breaking records with debt. And what about undoing Glass–Steagall, allowing commercial banks to become investment banks? Deregulation you like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
You only follow every media stance to hate Trump.
You have no idea of what I follow. But you have stated you follow Fox, Breitbart, and Infowars.

Plus, you're a Birther that wants Obama to go back to Kenya ... to pray on a rug 5 times a day.
03-08-2019 08:08 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Hillary most qualified? Bahahahahaha. Maybe we should impeach her.

I differ from the DNC because I'm a registered independent.

Look, I know you have to think I'm a lefty. I've known other conservative extremists, that paint even pubbies as left : like they have a obsessive compulsive disorder.

Your need to put me in a box is like that. I may display some lefty stuff, but I'm not even close to being obsessive about it. (You project your own obsession with party onto me.)

You, on the other hand, have clearly displayed -- for all to easily and clearly see, proudly btw, are so obsessively conservative, I wouldn't be surprised if Homeland Security has you on a watch list, as a possible dangerous right wing extremest.

Just your need to put everyone in conservative and liberal boxes -- generalizations beyond any hope of applying to each and everyone -- displays such obsession ; and it's going on in your head on overtime.

Look, you can be OCD about political parties -- left and right -- all you want, but at least admit you have the disorder.

I have TDS, and admit it. I've never liked the man, and don't think he's presidential material in the least. I've always seen him as a conman, going way back. So I want him out as soon as possible. Does that make me a lefty? No. It makes me a concerned citizen, applying my own personal judgments, not those of any party.

Besides, it wasn't that long ago that Trump was a democrat. Did I like him then? No!!! Political con men will go with whatever party they think will make them win. Trump's a RINO. Remember them? You use to poo poo them. You must be on some hefty doses of anti-TDS meds to not only tolerate that RINO, but to throw your support behind him. How can you hook your wagon to a RINO? You must be compromising at least some of your principles to do it. Lighten up on your anti-TDS meds and you'll perchance be able to see it.
I asked you a question about where you differed from the new Socialist policies of the Democratic Party, and you hit me with this?
  • I project my own obsession on you
  • I am on a some watch list
  • I am a dangerous right wing extremest
  • I am OCD, and must admit I have the disorder
I have stated some of my conservative policies as anti-abortion, anti-judicial-activism, secure borders with legal immigration, equal justice for all, fair and balanced journalism that is accountable, against excessive government regulations, pro-American jobs, fairness in the workplace, etc.

The Democrats espoused these exact same views for decades. Even Bill Clinton after 1994 governed this way. You, however, never weigh a policy for its actual merit. You only follow every media stance to hate Trump. I never liked Obama's policies, but never displayed the vitriol you have admitted to about Trump.

Now tell me who is sick?
03-08-2019 07:50 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Democrats platform

RAISE INCOMES AND RESTORE ECONOMIC SECURITY FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS
Raising Workers’ Wages -- I disagree that raising the hourly wage is all that helpful. Instead I would like there to be a minimum daily wage. It can be $64, basically 8 times the minimum wage of $8. I think that would be much more helpful. Of course , there has to be a waiver for students and those that want to work part time.

Protecting and Expanding Social Security -- totally against expanding Social Security. This has turned out to be a piggy bank for politicians to rob.

CREATE GOOD-PAYING JOBS
Building 21st Century Infrastructure -- I would support government grants for the development of Fusion, but I doubt this is what they are talking about.

Creating Good-Paying Clean Energy Jobs
Pursuing Our Innovation Agenda: Science, Research, Education, and Technology


Reining in Wall Street and Fixing our Financial System -- really? Liars. If they were going to do this they would have kept Glass Steagall.

Making the Wealthy Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes -- the only way you do this is by making our tax a sales tax and eliminating all the other taxes. When you have thousand pages of tax code you encourage loopholes and high priced tax accountants gaming the system.

Promoting Trade That is Fair and Benefits American Workers -- So they are pro Trump.

Ending Systemic Racism -- By attacking those that are pro Israel? Seems hypocritical.

Closing the Racial Wealth Gap -- By claiming to be an American Indian to further your education and career? Again, your presidential candidate is a hypocrite.

Reforming our Criminal Justice System -- Require liability insurance for all gun owners. I would support that, but they have never mentioned this.

Fixing our Broken Immigration System -- really? They seem intent on keeping it broken.

PROTECT VOTING RIGHTS, FIX OUR CAMPAIGN FINANCE SYSTEM, AND RESTORE OUR DEMOCRACY -- I would support getting rid of the Electoral college. Haven't heard any suggestion about this.
03-08-2019 06:41 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Senator from NY?

Have you forgotten that Hillary was the most qualified Presidential candidate we have ever had?

Can you name me one policy where you differ from the DNC?
Hillary most qualified? Bahahahahaha. Maybe we should impeach her.

I differ from the DNC because I'm a registered independent.

Look, I know you have to think I'm a lefty. I've known other conservative extremists, that paint even pubbies as left : like they have a obsessive compulsive disorder.

Your need to put me in a box is like that. I may display some lefty stuff, but I'm not even close to being obsessive about it. (You project your own obsession with party onto me.)

You, on the other hand, have clearly displayed -- for all to easily and clearly see, proudly btw, are so obsessively conservative, I wouldn't be surprised if Homeland Security has you on a watch list, as a possible dangerous right wing extremest.

Just your need to put everyone in conservative and liberal boxes -- generalizations beyond any hope of applying to each and everyone -- displays such obsession ; and it's going on in your head on overtime.

Look, you can be OCD about political parties -- left and right -- all you want, but at least admit you have the disorder.

I have TDS, and admit it. I've never liked the man, and don't think he's presidential material in the least. I've always seen him as a conman, going way back. So I want him out as soon as possible. Does that make me a lefty? No. It makes me a concerned citizen, applying my own personal judgments, not those of any party.

Besides, it wasn't that long ago that Trump was a democrat. Did I like him then? No!!! Political con men will go with whatever party they think will make them win. Trump's a RINO. Remember them? You use to poo poo them. You must be on some hefty doses of anti-TDS meds to not only tolerate that RINO, but to throw your support behind him. How can you hook your wagon to a RINO? You must be compromising at least some of your principles to do it. Lighten up on your anti-TDS meds and you'll perchance be able to see it.
03-07-2019 08:09 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Balderdash ... poppycock ... nonsense that you can't back up. Hillary hasn't held office.
Senator from NY?

Have you forgotten that Hillary was the most qualified Presidential candidate we have ever had?

Can you name me one policy where you differ from the DNC?
03-07-2019 06:23 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I can only go by what you post, and all of your posts display an incredible loyalty to the socialist democrats. You can call your self a mugwump, but your views have little to no difference from the current batch of new Democrats. You are further to the Left than either Hilary or Obama were, at least while in office.
Balderdash ... poppycock ... nonsense that you can't back up. Hillary hasn't held office.
03-07-2019 01:58 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
You speak of that which you don't and can't possibly know.

I'm a mugwump. I hold no loyalty to either party. No loyalty to Clinton, Bush, Obama, et al, or Trump.
I can only go by what you post, and all of your posts display an incredible loyalty to the socialist democrats. You can call your self a mugwump, but your views have little to no difference from the current batch of new Democrats. You are further to the Left than either Hilary or Obama were, at least while in office.
03-07-2019 10:42 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
And this summarizes the difficulty with nearly all of awareness's posts. It seems his memory of history is only as long as the time since he read his last news article from the Left.
You speak of that which you don't and can't possibly know.

I'm a mugwump. I hold no loyalty to either party. No loyalty to Clinton, Bush, Obama, et al, or Trump.
03-07-2019 09:22 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Imagine someone you cared about was murdered and the guilty party was an illegal alien that had committed previous felonies and had been deported previously. That is my point. These people have every right to feel that if the US did a better job of border security this person would never have been killed.

As it turns out most illegal aliens in gangs that commit murder have committed previous felonies and been deported previously.
It is just incredible to think that illegal aliens regularly escape prosecution when US citizens would be indicted.

No sanctuary for US citizens, especially conservatives!

This is the Left's version of compassion. Actually it's only about more votes.
03-07-2019 09:18 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Since his botched Vietnam meeting with Kim, Kim is back at it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
No worse than when Bush or Clinton was president.
And Clinton was far worse. He gave them billions to develop the nukes, in the name of "humanitarian aid."

And this summarizes the difficulty with nearly all of awareness's posts. It seems his memory of history is only as long as the time since he read his last news article from the Left.
03-07-2019 09:08 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Since his botched Vietnam meeting with Kim, Kim is back at it.
No worse than when Bush or Clinton was president.
03-07-2019 07:59 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Like all the gun deaths by legal Americans?
Imagine someone you cared about was murdered and the guilty party was an illegal alien that had committed previous felonies and had been deported previously. That is my point. These people have every right to feel that if the US did a better job of border security this person would never have been killed.

As it turns out most illegal aliens in gangs that commit murder have committed previous felonies and been deported previously.
03-07-2019 05:41 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
That is a very cold hearted thing to say to all those relatives of those who were killed by illegals.
Like all the gun deaths by legal Americans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNP
That is a ridiculous argument. Since they are humans in need they get to jump in front of every other human in need. So all those who wait in line, let's ignore them.
No I mean LET them in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNP
Good point, except he didn't put Putin in power and he didn't put Kim in power. They were existing leaders of countries that could be quite threatening to the US. N. Korea was considered a major threat to US security before Trump became president. It may be that his approach will actually improve the situation. that would be a good thing, not a bad thing.
Since his botched Vietnam meeting with Kim, Kim is back at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNP
"Our boarders"?! You have illegal aliens boarding with you?
My bad.
03-06-2019 07:35 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Oh let 'em in. More came in under Obama, and it really didn't hurt us.
That is a very cold hearted thing to say to all those relatives of those who were killed by illegals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Obviously they're humans in need. If America is going to be a shining light on the hill, shouldn't it shine kindness and compassion to the world?
That is a ridiculous argument. Since they are humans in need they get to jump in front of every other human in need. So all those who wait in line, let's ignore them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
What bothers me the most is Trumps freewheeling infomercials of vitriol against these humans in need, yet, he is in love with the murdering tyrant dictator Kim Jong-un, ang cozies up to the likes of dictators like Putin and self confessed premeditated killer, Duterte.
Good point, except he didn't put Putin in power and he didn't put Kim in power. They were existing leaders of countries that could be quite threatening to the US. N. Korea was considered a major threat to US security before Trump became president. It may be that his approach will actually improve the situation. that would be a good thing, not a bad thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
And more, so far it looks like the percentage of bad hombres around Trump is much great than the percentage of bad hombres coming across our boarders.
"Our boarders"?! You have illegal aliens boarding with you?
03-06-2019 07:23 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
The main issue would be illegals who are felons, especially those in gangs.
Oh let 'em in. More came in under Obama, and it really didn't hurt us. Obviously they're humans in need. If America is going to be a shining light on the hill, shouldn't it shine kindness and compassion to the world?

What bothers me the most is Trumps freewheeling infomercials of vitriol against these humans in need, yet, he is in love with the murdering tyrant dictator Kim Jong-un, ang cozies up to the likes of dictators like Putin and self confessed premeditated killer, Duterte.

And more, so far it looks like the percentage of bad hombres around Trump is much great than the percentage of bad hombres coming across our boarders.
03-06-2019 04:17 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

“In February, we saw a 30 percent jump over the previous month, with agents apprehending or encountering nearly 75,000 aliens,” Nielsen told the House Committee on Homeland Security. “This is an 80 percent increase over the same time last year. And I can report today that CBP is forecasting the problem will get even worse this spring as the weather warms up.”

If this continues and we get swamped with aliens we will be hearing "I told you so" at the next election.

According to the data released Wednesday, the number of family units arriving at the border has increased 338 percent since the previous fiscal year while the number of unaccompanied minors rose by 58 percent.

Democrats are going to look like complete idiots in 2 years.

Since the beginning of the fiscal year, CPB has apprehended 268,000 such immigrants at the border, an average of nearly 2,000 per day and the highest rate since 2007.

Democrats are in a terrible situation. If they refuse to listen to this testimony and we have a full blown crisis like Europe they will appear to all to be the problem. If on the other hand they do listen to this testimony and agree to a national emergency they get blamed for the shutdown.

“Our capacity is already severely strained, but these increases will overwhelm the system entirely,” Nielsen said. “This is not a ‘manufactured’ crisis. This is truly an emergency.”

Wow, if the Democrats stop Trump they will completely own any crisis. On the other hand if they concede there is a national emergency they look like complete jerks.

268,000 illegal aliens. A serious fence would certainly make the job of apprehending them easier and save manpower for things like Cartels and drugs. How many man hours does it take to round up, detain, and process 268,000 people?

Since 2000 the number of illegals entering the country has steadily dropped (until recently). However, the overall total of illegals in the country is close to an all time high of 12 million. So the size of the problem is as big as it has ever been. Most people think the cause of the problem is that there is little or no penalty for employers employing illegal aliens. However, from an enforcement standpoint it may be more practical to make it much harder to cross the border illegally so that once illegals are sent back (primarily for committing felonies) they can't return. Although the majority of illegals are not felons, they are also not the main issue. The main issue would be illegals who are felons, especially those in gangs.
03-01-2019 01:35 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Well now the crack is a chasm.

Today extremism, on both the left and the right, is no longer fringe. And what about the over 80% of evangelicals that supported(s) Trump?

If you think Christians wouldn't kick off a civil war, then you haven't read much about Christians and the civil war.

And if Trump doesn't win in 2020 what do you think the neo-Nazi's, KKK, and White Supremacist's are going to do?

And let's not forget about all the MAGA hats? We don't know what they are capable of.
Those evangelicals had a choice between Clinton and Trump. Clinton was a known entity, Trump wasn't. Trump is clearly pro life, Clinton was clearly pro choice. You could be very uneasy about Trump and still choose him because you knew Clinton was a crook, a liar, and support policies that you strongly disagree with. As many said, including Ohio, that last election was all about the SCOTUS. All evangelicals are probably much happier with the choices made by Trump.
03-01-2019 01:07 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Would you stop believing lies and urban mythology spread by the Left ...

KKK grand wizard David Duke has thrown his support behind Democratic Hawaii Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard

Jerks like Duke and Farakkhan hate Israel more than anything else.

If there is civil unrest, it will come down to the Democrats demanding socialism and unlimited abortions.
We'll see my friend, we'll see.
03-01-2019 12:41 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Well now the crack is a chasm.

Today extremism, on both the left and the right, is no longer fringe. And what about the over 80% of evangelicals that supported(s) Trump?

If you think Christians wouldn't kick off a civil war, then you haven't read much about Christians and the civil war.

And if Trump doesn't win in 2020 what do you think the neo-Nazi's, KKK, and White Supremacist's are going to do?


And let's not forget about all the MAGA hats? We don't know what they are capable of.
Would you stop believing lies and urban mythology spread by the Left ...

KKK grand wizard David Duke has thrown his support behind Democratic Hawaii Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard

Jerks like Duke and Farakkhan hate Israel more than anything else.

If there is civil unrest, it will come down to the Democrats demanding socialism and unlimited abortions.
03-01-2019 12:29 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Ridiculous terminology. Situation today is absolutely nothing like the Civil war. States don't have any kind of army that could secede from the Union compared to the US Army and the economy of the South is essentially high tech and not some kind of antiquated slave economy.

The foundation of a country is righteousness. The ruling in Roe v. Wade was unrighteous. That has led to a crack in the union.
Well now the crack is a chasm.

Today extremism, on both the left and the right, is no longer fringe. And what about the over 80% of evangelicals that supported(s) Trump?

If you think Christians wouldn't kick off a civil war, then you haven't read much about Christians and the civil war.

And if Trump doesn't win in 2020 what do you think the neo-Nazi's, KKK, and White Supremacist's are going to do?

And let's not forget about all the MAGA hats? We don't know what they are capable of.
03-01-2019 10:03 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
During our first civil war both sides were certain that God was on their side, and they both considered their side a Christian Nation.

Are we headed that way again?

In America, talk turns to something unspoken for 150 years: Civil war

https://www.lmtonline.com/news/artic...r-13654893.php
Ridiculous terminology. Situation today is absolutely nothing like the Civil war. States don't have any kind of army that could secede from the Union compared to the US Army and the economy of the South is essentially high tech and not some kind of antiquated slave economy.

The foundation of a country is righteousness. The ruling in Roe v. Wade was unrighteous. That has led to a crack in the union.
03-01-2019 06:37 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

During our first civil war both sides were certain that God was on their side, and they both considered their side a Christian Nation.

Are we headed that way again?

In America, talk turns to something unspoken for 150 years: Civil war

https://www.lmtonline.com/news/artic...r-13654893.php
02-26-2019 11:42 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Not only the hats. He accused them of yelling "This is MAGA country" and he said they put a noose around his neck. Clearly it is a hate attack against those who support the MAGA campaign and an attempt to link them to lynchings. Also I think his hate letter also referenced MAGA. There is no doubt he tried to blame MAGA supporters for the racist attacks. It is clearly a hate crime, the problem is "who got harmed" and "what are the damages". Very difficult to claim this harmed "MAGA", on the contrary it will probably be a very big help. Intending to harm is not the same as actual harm.
With the Smallette hoax, no reparations will be sought by any individuals or entities.

Personally, I think public shaming and honest heart-felt apologies are needed most, along with reimbursement to the Chicago PD. Who could ever believe this guy again? I don't really care if he serves time. I would rather see an end to all hoaxes.

With Sandmann, however, as a totally innocent minor, attacked for his race, his religion, and his pro-life views, I would like to see the severest of penalties placed on all those who slandered him, both individuals and medias.
02-26-2019 09:55 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
And isn't this Smollett thing made into a big deal because of MAGA hats?
Not only the hats. He accused them of yelling "This is MAGA country" and he said they put a noose around his neck. Clearly it is a hate attack against those who support the MAGA campaign and an attempt to link them to lynchings. Also I think his hate letter also referenced MAGA. There is no doubt he tried to blame MAGA supporters for the racist attacks. It is clearly a hate crime, the problem is "who got harmed" and "what are the damages". Very difficult to claim this harmed "MAGA", on the contrary it will probably be a very big help. Intending to harm is not the same as actual harm.
02-26-2019 09:53 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Hate hoaxes have to be prosecuted. Good for the Chicago PD for bringing up how 85% of their murders go unsolved, and Smollett burned up their valuable resources with his hoax. After all that, the only charge they had on him was "disorderly conduct," that is until they discovered his tylenol-laced letter was a federal crime. Oops! I bet he never thought about that.

Listening to the media, the nation is still "convinced" that hate crimes are on the rise. Statistics can be used to say most anything, especially since hoaxes are in the mix. Smollett's justice needs to be national news. Unfortunately the media has already began to hide the truth, and promote conspiracy narratives about the Chicago Police Department. Too many out there have already been trained to only believe lies.
Sueing him for damages would always take place after he is convicted of a felony. The minute he is convicted they can file in order to get their money back. The same goes for the letter. First they have to convict him of doing it, then they can sue him for the false accusation.

Personally I think he should be tried for a hate crime. The problem is you have to show who was harmed and quantify it. Can anyone really argue that anyone else was harmed and if so what is the value of that harm? If you can do that without sounding like you have an axe to grind they could do it.

Same thing goes for Jolly. First you have to convict this person, then the bank can sue them to get the balance on the mortgage.
02-26-2019 09:12 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
That's fake news bro Ohio. Where have you been getting your training?

But it is true, and obvious as all get-out : Many out there believe lies. But blame the sin -- lies -- not the sinners.

And isn't this Smollett thing made into a big deal because of MAGA hats?
American Law does not blame sin, it holds criminals liable.

When numerous media types, including notable social media figures, ran with false stories -- lies -- they also should be held accountable. Honest journalism is almost dead.

Blaming Trump for Smallette's crimes, is like blaming Clinton for every #MeToo crime. Smallette is a gifted actor in his mid 30's, who has more money than any of us. Is he now excusable because he is black? Because he is gay? Because he is an actor, trying to advance his career?

Smallette inflicted a hoax on 63 Million people who voted for Trump. He tied up Chicago's PD for weeks. He was willing to send two random white guys walking the Chicago streets at 2am during a polar vortex to jail for a long time. That's what should happen to him.
02-26-2019 08:50 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Too many out there have already been trained to only believe lies.
That's fake news bro Ohio. Where have you been getting your training?

But it is true, and obvious as all get-out : Many out there believe lies. But blame the sin -- lies -- not the sinners.

Twain, or Benjamin Disraeli, said : "There are three kinds of lies : Lies, Damned lies, and statistics."

Before the LC, we Southgate Sickies, of Southgate, Michigan, had a known liar in our group. He was still a Sickie, we didn't exclude him, but we all knew we couldn't trust a thing that he said ; he just lied tooooooo much.

That's the way I feel about our president.

And isn't this Smollett thing made into a big deal because of MAGA hats?
02-26-2019 07:13 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
This Joly case will be the second, I expect both Smollett and Joly will receive "consequences".

I did not see any evidence provided yet as to why they think Joly set the fire. However, insurance companies will do extensive investigations when their is evidence of arson (easy to spot). This doesn't mean Joly is guilty but you can be sure the insurance company is going to fight this person to the fullest extent.

Either way, innocent or guilty, this is the beginning of the backlash as a result of false claims of hate crimes. If Joly turns out to be guilty you can be sure the backlash will get even stronger.
Hate hoaxes have to be prosecuted. Good for the Chicago PD for bringing up how 85% of their murders go unsolved, and Smollett burned up their valuable resources with his hoax. After all that, the only charge they had on him was "disorderly conduct," that is until they discovered his tylenol-laced letter was a federal crime. Oops! I bet he never thought about that.

Listening to the media, the nation is still "convinced" that hate crimes are on the rise. Statistics can be used to say most anything, especially since hoaxes are in the mix. Smollett's justice needs to be national news. Unfortunately the media has already began to hide the truth, and promote conspiracy narratives about the Chicago Police Department. Too many out there have already been trained to only believe lies.
02-26-2019 05:54 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
When it comes to protesting, the opposite is true. Those with money and are working have no time to riot, protest, or vandalize. They have too much to lose. Those on welfare and food stamps, however, are prime targets to make a few extra bucks throwing rocks at storefronts with a ski-mask on.

Where's all the prosecutions for these rioters? In Baltimore, the police were instructed to "stand down" and let the rioters "blow off steam." The Mayor, the Police Chief, and the Council President were all African American, as if that is supposed bring fairness to the inner city.

There may be "no respect for the rioters or their cause," but neither are there consequences in most cases.
This Joly case will be the second, I expect both Smollett and Joly will receive "consequences".

I did not see any evidence provided yet as to why they think Joly set the fire. However, insurance companies will do extensive investigations when their is evidence of arson (easy to spot). This doesn't mean Joly is guilty but you can be sure the insurance company is going to fight this person to the fullest extent.

Either way, innocent or guilty, this is the beginning of the backlash as a result of false claims of hate crimes. If Joly turns out to be guilty you can be sure the backlash will get even stronger.
02-25-2019 04:22 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
The poorest people in America have a car, a home, and a smart car. If you want to see poor, go overseas.

The Left has convinced some that it is evil when others have more than they do. The greatest disparity of wealth is always found in Democratic strongholds. The Democratic Party is the party of the wealthy and the poor.

That's why these "haters" should not protest conservatives like Trump, rather they should go after the Democratic Politicians who refuse to secure the border and want their jobs and homes to go to illegal aliens.
65% of Americans own their own home. That means 1/3 of Americans don't. Now the vast majority of American's net worth is the equity in their home. This indicates that a third of Americans don't have any net worth, they have nothing to lose.

8% of the US population have felony convictions. 33% of the African American community do. It is extremely difficult to become gainfully employed after having a felony conviction, so these convictions pretty much doom a person to life of poverty. It is also quite obvious that the justice system is biased. (I personally think the bias is towards the color green more than brown or black.)
02-25-2019 03:46 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
This is where conservatives and socialists can see eye to eye. The best thing for the country, the best thing for tax revenue, the best thing for security, is to make every citizen a stake holder. If everyone is middle class and owns a home and a car, they will all have something to lose.
The poorest people in America have a car, a home, and a smart car. If you want to see poor, go overseas.

The Left has convinced some that it is evil when others have more than they do. The greatest disparity of wealth is always found in Democratic strongholds. The Democratic Party is the party of the wealthy and the poor.

That's why these "haters" should not protest conservatives like Trump, rather they should go after the Democratic Politicians who refuse to secure the border and want their jobs and homes to go to illegal aliens.
02-25-2019 03:25 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
When it comes to protesting, the opposite is true. Those with money and are working have no time to riot, protest, or vandalize. They have too much to lose. Those on welfare and food stamps, however, are prime targets to make a few extra bucks throwing rocks at storefronts with a ski-mask on.
This is where conservatives and socialists can see eye to eye. The best thing for the country, the best thing for tax revenue, the best thing for security, is to make every citizen a stake holder. If everyone is middle class and owns a home and a car, they will all have something to lose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Where's all the prosecutions for these rioters? In Baltimore, the police were instructed to "stand down" and let the rioters "blow off steam." The Mayor, the Police Chief, and the Council President were all African American, as if that is supposed bring fairness to the inner city.

There may be "no respect for the rioters or their cause," but neither are there consequences in most cases.
All of these businesses and most of these cars are insured. This means that every little person who is harmed has a very big insurance company with resources, lawyers, influence and power to prosecute. However if they choose to simply pay out rather than prosecute that is a business decision (how much will it cost, how much will we benefit). If they determine the cost outweighs the benefit they might simply pay out the damages.

However, that does not mean there aren't consequences for these people.

1. Many of those in these riot areas will have lots of consequences. Banks may realize that this is a bad area when comparing mortgages that pay out versus those that go belly up and may stop loaning money. The neighborhood pays.

2. House prices drop, insurance prices go up. As a result many will default on their mortgage which in turn causes the neighborhood to drop in value (lots of boarded up houses). The neighborhood pays.

3. Insurance for business goes up. Some of these businesses will fail, some will close, and some will raise their prices. Again, the neighborhood pays.

4. The school system is funded by property tax. If property values drop the tax revenue also drops. If people move out, the tax revenue drops. This is called "white flight". The neighborhood pays.

The problem is if you have people in society which have nothing to lose. Everyone should want a society where every member has a vested interest in the society going forward.
02-25-2019 03:15 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
SAT scores are now curved to create a moving target in order to compensate for the declining scores every year.

Too many kids are passed along because failing is too expensive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educat..._United_States

Any unbiased opinion would agree that we have made steady and tremendous progress with education since 1940.
02-25-2019 12:57 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
People with money will always have an advantage. But the truth is a far bigger advantage.

Face facts, these riots that destroy property and get people hurt damage the reputation of those who are rioting. There are a lot of people who try to use this climate for self promotion. Jussie Smollett is simply the ugliest example. The politician who claimed he was a modern day victim of lynching is another.

When we see videos of cars burning and shops being looted there is no respect for the rioters or their cause.
When it comes to protesting, the opposite is true. Those with money and are working have no time to riot, protest, or vandalize. They have too much to lose. Those on welfare and food stamps, however, are prime targets to make a few extra bucks throwing rocks at storefronts with a ski-mask on.

Where's all the prosecutions for these rioters? In Baltimore, the police were instructed to "stand down" and let the rioters "blow off steam." The Mayor, the Police Chief, and the Council President were all African American, as if that is supposed bring fairness to the inner city.

There may be "no respect for the rioters or their cause," but neither are there consequences in most cases.
02-25-2019 12:50 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Baloney, no kid could graduate from NY HS not being able to read or write. They have to pass 5 Regents exams for the most basic diploma. They may not be graduating similar to a student who gets into Brown or Harvard, but they can read and write and the improvement over 100 years prior is very dramatic.

"Optional" -- yes I agree. Not being able to afford to go to school should not be a filter, simply if you want to or not.

Second the SAT is a very good test at proving someone can read and do algebra.
SAT scores are now curved to create a moving target in order to compensate for the declining scores every year.

Too many kids are passed along because failing is too expensive.
02-25-2019 12:41 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Hundreds of paid GOP operatives descended upon South Florida to protest the state's recounts,[1] with at least half a dozen of the demonstrators at Miami-Dade paid by George W. Bush's recount committee.[2] Several of these protesters were identified as Republican staffers and a number later went on to jobs in the Bush administration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot
People with money will always have an advantage. But the truth is a far bigger advantage.

Face facts, these riots that destroy property and get people hurt damage the reputation of those who are rioting. There are a lot of people who try to use this climate for self promotion. Jussie Smollett is simply the ugliest example. The politician who claimed he was a modern day victim of lynching is another.

When we see videos of cars burning and shops being looted there is no respect for the rioters or their cause.
02-25-2019 12:37 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Kids can now graduate from HS not able to read or write. Soon they will be able to graduate from College with the same level of incompetence. And with "No child left behind" legislation, we will dumb down all the universities to their level.

Education should be optional, only for those who want to learn. Otherwise a few bad actors spoil it for all the rest.
Baloney, no kid could graduate from NY HS not being able to read or write. They have to pass 5 Regents exams for the most basic diploma. They may not be graduating similar to a student who gets into Brown or Harvard, but they can read and write and the improvement over 100 years prior is very dramatic.

"Optional" -- yes I agree. Not being able to afford to go to school should not be a filter, simply if you want to or not.

Second the SAT is a very good test at proving someone can read and do algebra.
02-25-2019 09:28 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Just peaceful protests that forced the crooks to be honest. No masks on their faces, eh?

You don't know "riot" until you see the Left's violent protests and hoaxes.
Hundreds of paid GOP operatives descended upon South Florida to protest the state's recounts,[1] with at least half a dozen of the demonstrators at Miami-Dade paid by George W. Bush's recount committee.[2] Several of these protesters were identified as Republican staffers and a number later went on to jobs in the Bush administration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot
02-25-2019 09:08 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
And I suppose you love the Brooks Brothers riot ... that rigged that election in Florida.
Just peaceful protests that forced the crooks to be honest. No masks on their faces, eh?

You don't know "riot" until you see the Left's violent protests and hoaxes.
02-25-2019 08:51 AM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Oh, how I love those hanging chads in Florida!
And I suppose you love the Brooks Brothers riot ... that rigged that election in Florida.
02-25-2019 08:25 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Bernie is also pushing free college in the same way that public school is free. At first I thought this was idiotic, but since then I have seen more accurately what he is calling for (no impact on private schools, but rather public universities). I agree with him.
Kids can now graduate from HS not able to read or write. Soon they will be able to graduate from College with the same level of incompetence. And with "No child left behind" legislation, we will dumb down all the universities to their level.

Education should be optional, only for those who want to learn. Otherwise a few bad actors spoil it for all the rest.
02-25-2019 08:21 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Any fair and reasonable person would agree that in a developed nation like the US we should have universal health care.
Sure. These same fair and reasonable people felt that Hillaree should not be indicted.

Don'cha just love it when CNN becomes the "voice" for all America.
02-25-2019 07:40 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Oh, how I love those hanging chads in Florida!

Then, Mr Climatologist "Ozone Al" Gore, why aren't these migrant caravans from Central America heading into Venezuela, the socialist utopia at the forefront of Greenyism?

Venezuela has successfully destroyed their oil industry in the name of socialism and the "evils" of Big Oil, thus solving all of their country's ills. Right Al? Venezuela has successfully reduced their "carbon footprint." Isn't that a great thing, folks?

If you want to see into AOC's New Green Deal "crystal ball," just watch the news in Venezuela.

Anybody watch ole Bernie Sanders tell us all how "government is working" for us, when we stand in line and receive our free food? Hey Bernie, tell us again about the evils of crony capitalism from your new Lake Champlain getaway vacation home, which was your consolation prize from the DNC for dropping out of the 2016 race against Hillaree?
https://www.google.com/search?q=grap...BRCSWZDspj3hM:

Some argue that the real reason for the focus on Venezuela is that poverty is decreasing, fewer people in poverty and that is the real threat.

Any fair and reasonable person would agree that in a developed nation like the US we should have universal health care. Bernie was ahead of the curve on this. Even conservatives who are very focused on cost/benefit analysis would agree that universal healthcare makes fiscal sense for all Americans.

Bernie is also pushing free college in the same way that public school is free. At first I thought this was idiotic, but since then I have seen more accurately what he is calling for (no impact on private schools, but rather public universities). I agree with him. The jobs that you only needed a HS degree for 50 years ago you now need a college degree. Also, the return on investment to the government from the increased tax revenue more than pays for the cost. Also, HS teachers now need graduate degrees, hence those who teach HS have the qualifications that were necessary to teach college 50 years ago.

The only way the US maintains a position as one of the top countries in the world is through having an educated populace. Even conservatives should understand the cost/benefits. You can see the benefit to the US for having universal public school available to all through 12th grade. You can compare it with countries that don't offer this. Seeing the benefits we have gotten over the last 50 years we should therefore improve this program to include undergraduate degrees.
02-25-2019 06:15 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...042510777.html

So this presents a conundrum to both democrats and republicans.

If you are a firm believer in climate change, you should also realize the impending threat from caravans of refugees coming to our country, hence the need for a wall/fence/barrier. So why are those so insistent on doing something about climate change fighting so hard to stop the construction of this barrier?

(If you compare the cost -- $5 billion to the total US budget is similar to a family whose gross income is 100k spending less than $100 on a lock for the front door).

(Do not worry about Ohio rubbing your nose in this, he has completely repudiated anything Al Gores says).
Oh, how I love those hanging chads in Florida!

Then, Mr Climatologist "Ozone Al" Gore, why aren't these migrant caravans from Central America heading into Venezuela, the socialist utopia at the forefront of Greenyism?

Venezuela has successfully destroyed their oil industry in the name of socialism and the "evils" of Big Oil, thus solving all of their country's ills. Right Al? Venezuela has successfully reduced their "carbon footprint." Isn't that a great thing, folks?

If you want to see into AOC's New Green Deal "crystal ball," just watch the news in Venezuela.

Anybody watch ole Bernie Sanders tell us all how "government is working" for us, when we stand in line and receive our free food? Hey Bernie, tell us again about the evils of crony capitalism from your new Lake Champlain getaway vacation home, which was your consolation prize from the DNC for dropping out of the 2016 race against Hillaree?
02-25-2019 05:52 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...042510777.html

So this presents a conundrum to both democrats and republicans.

If you are a firm believer in climate change, you should also realize the impending threat from caravans of refugees coming to our country, hence the need for a wall/fence/barrier. So why are those so insistent on doing something about climate change fighting so hard to stop the construction of this barrier?

(If you compare the cost -- $5 billion to the total US budget is similar to a family whose gross income is 100k buying one of the cheapest and most basic front doors offered by Home Depot -- JELD-WEN
32 in. x 80 in. MODA Primed PMC1011 Solid Core Wood Interior Door Slab w/Clear Glass, however this door is relatively more expensive to that family than the proposed front wall).

Also, please note that the Federal govt is going to get about 40% back from taxes. If you factor that in then it would be comparable to the cheapest piece of garbage door sold by Homedepot.

(Do not worry about Ohio rubbing your nose in this, he has completely repudiated anything Al Gores says).
02-25-2019 05:40 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Look into it. You'll find answers. Just google Jeffrey Epstein ... then Jeffrey Epstein and Lolita Express.

By any standard, Epstein, Clinton, Trump, and other rich and famous, were doing wrong, and they knew it.

And Epstein plead guilty, but only got 13 months, on work release, cuz so many rich and famous, the guilty ones, put their riches behind him to get him off. And he won't release the names of his fellow pedophiles, except Clinton and Trump, but the case is being re-adjudicated, so all the pedophiles might be exposed. Let's hope.
As some idiot said on the news recently about R. Kelly -- "it is a bad time to be a pedophile" (is there a good time -- ancient Greece?). Yes, this is an issue that #MeToo should sink their teeth into.
02-24-2019 06:46 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
You have a couple of issues here. Private Island indicates no longer US law but international law. So what is the international law?

Second, how did the "underage girls" get there? Are they underage according to international law or US law? Did they come from the US or other countries? If they are not "underage" by international law then how did they get there? Was their fraud involved or was it a legal contract?

I don't know enough about what you are referring to. However, based on what I do know about other countries and what they consider a legal age I suspect that international law on these matters is quite different from US law.
Look into it. You'll find answers. Just google Jeffrey Epstein ... then Jeffrey Epstein and Lolita Express.

By any standard, Epstein, Clinton, Trump, and other rich and famous, were doing wrong, and they knew it.

And Epstein plead guilty, but only got 13 months, on work release, cuz so many rich and famous, the guilty ones, put their riches behind him to get him off. And he won't release the names of his fellow pedophiles, except Clinton and Trump, but the case is being re-adjudicated, so all the pedophiles might be exposed. Let's hope.
02-24-2019 02:22 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
That would mean Jeffrey Epstein's rich and famous friends, that flew on his Lolita Express plane, to his private island of underage girls, like Bill Clinton, and Trump, would be put behind bars.
You have a couple of issues here. Private Island indicates no longer US law but international law. So what is the international law?

Second, how did the "underage girls" get there? Are they underage according to international law or US law? Did they come from the US or other countries? If they are not "underage" by international law then how did they get there? Was their fraud involved or was it a legal contract?

I don't know enough about what you are referring to. However, based on what I do know about other countries and what they consider a legal age I suspect that international law on these matters is quite different from US law.
02-24-2019 01:53 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
That would mean Jeffrey Epstein's rich and famous friends, that flew on his Lolita Express plane, to his private island of underage girls, like Bill Clinton, and Trump, would be put behind bars.
So Trump is now guilty of Epstein's crimes because he is also "rich and famous?"

Is it all a joke with you?
02-24-2019 12:49 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
I think the #MeToo movement will get a lot more traction if they focus on people like Kelly, Weinstein, and Cosby and distance themselves from the Kavanaugh attacks and anything like that. Help put the rich and powerful predators behind bars. I think 99% of us will support that.
That would mean Jeffrey Epstein's rich and famous friends, that flew on his Lolita Express plane, to his private island of underage girls, like Bill Clinton, and Trump, would be put behind bars.
02-24-2019 12:12 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

I think the #MeToo movement will get a lot more traction if they focus on people like Kelly, Weinstein, and Cosby and distance themselves from the Kavanaugh attacks and anything like that. Help put the rich and powerful predators behind bars. I think 99% of us will support that.
02-23-2019 02:28 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Trump is someone a lot of people love to hate. He's earned it.
So all these hoaxes are from people who hate Trump because he accused Obama of being a hoax?

Are they saying that Trump's accusation of hoax was a hoax? If that is the case then "I hate you because you are just like me".

Or, which would make a lot more sense, are they saying Trump's accusation of hoax was on point. In that case "I hate you because you exposed me as a liar".
02-22-2019 10:06 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I watched professional forensics experts identify Obama's papers as frauds. With all your vast learning, you should be able to identify a fraud and a hoax, unless of course you don't like to know the truth.
Oh okay. Obama rubbed off on Trump.
02-22-2019 07:56 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
I know! Why all the hoaxes against Trump? He must be a hoax magnate or something. Or Bill Clinton must have rubbed off on him.

But it takes one to know one. Trump was a birther hoaxer. Hoaxer's attract hoaxer's ... birds of a feather thing ... or Trump is reaping his karma. He's not a saint by any way shape or means. The GOP has sold their soul, and principles, out to an unprincipled fake republican.

Trump is someone a lot of people love to hate. He's earned it.
I watched professional forensics experts identify Obama's papers as frauds. With all your vast learning, you should be able to identify a fraud and a hoax, unless of course you don't like to know the truth.
02-22-2019 07:34 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Take a look at this collection of HOAXES perpetrated on the American people to convince us that Trump and us all are hateful racists ...

On top of that lie, there were
  • The anti-Muslim hoax at the University of Michigan.
  • The bisexual hate mail hoax at North Park University.
  • The black woman accosted by Trump supporters hoax at a Philadelphia gas station.
  • The Muslim who had her hijab ripped off her head by a MAGA-hat wearing racist hoax in Louisiana.
  • The guy who spray-painted “Heil Trump” on his own church hoax in Indiana.
  • The Muslim woman attacked by Trump supporters hoax in New York.
  • The Whole Foods wrote “fag” on my cake hoax in Texas.
  • The white guy paints “nigger lover” on his own garage and sets his own cars on fire hoax in Texas.
  • The Muslim woman who slashed her own face hoax in New York.
  • The Muslim student writes hate graffiti on his own door hoax at Beloit College.
  • The black student who wrote racist notes hoax at St. Olaf College.
  • The guy in the Air Force who wrote “Go home nigger” to himself hoax in Colorado.
  • The man who wrote racist slurs on his own car hoax in Kansas City.
  • The non-white guy who wrote racist slurs in a bathroom hoax in Missouri.
  • The waiter who wrote a racist note to himself hoax in Texas.
  • The waitress who wrote a racist note to herself hoax in Texas.
  • The woman who slashed her own tires and wrote a note to herself hoax in Long Island.
  • The student who wrote racist notes to herself hoax at Drake University.
  • The black church burned in the name of Trump by a black parishioner hoax in Mississippi.
  • The Great Chipotle Race Hoax of 2018.
And on and on and on ….

This is why Smollett must face the full weight of the law.
I know! Why all the hoaxes against Trump? He must be a hoax magnate or something. Or Bill Clinton must have rubbed off on him.

But it takes one to know one. Trump was a birther hoaxer. Hoaxer's attract hoaxer's ... birds of a feather thing ... or Trump is reaping his karma. He's not a saint by any way shape or means. The GOP has sold their soul, and principles, out to an unprincipled fake republican.

Trump is someone a lot of people love to hate. He's earned it.
02-22-2019 01:51 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Take a look at this collection of HOAXES perpetrated on the American people to convince us that Trump and us all are hateful racists ...

On top of that lie, there were
  • The anti-Muslim hoax at the University of Michigan.
  • The bisexual hate mail hoax at North Park University.
  • The black woman accosted by Trump supporters hoax at a Philadelphia gas station.
  • The Muslim who had her hijab ripped off her head by a MAGA-hat wearing racist hoax in Louisiana.
  • The guy who spray-painted “Heil Trump” on his own church hoax in Indiana.
  • The Muslim woman attacked by Trump supporters hoax in New York.
  • The Whole Foods wrote “fag” on my cake hoax in Texas.
  • The white guy paints “nigger lover” on his own garage and sets his own cars on fire hoax in Texas.
  • The Muslim woman who slashed her own face hoax in New York.
  • The Muslim student writes hate graffiti on his own door hoax at Beloit College.
  • The black student who wrote racist notes hoax at St. Olaf College.
  • The guy in the Air Force who wrote “Go home nigger” to himself hoax in Colorado.
  • The man who wrote racist slurs on his own car hoax in Kansas City.
  • The non-white guy who wrote racist slurs in a bathroom hoax in Missouri.
  • The waiter who wrote a racist note to himself hoax in Texas.
  • The waitress who wrote a racist note to herself hoax in Texas.
  • The woman who slashed her own tires and wrote a note to herself hoax in Long Island.
  • The student who wrote racist notes to herself hoax at Drake University.
  • The black church burned in the name of Trump by a black parishioner hoax in Mississippi.
  • The Great Chipotle Race Hoax of 2018.
And on and on and on ….

This is why Smollett must face the full weight of the law.
Hardly the conclusion I would make. I would conclude that this is great fodder for Trump's reelection campaign. He should put people on it immediately to make ads and even a documentary movie.

As for Smollett their are already calls for this. It has been pointed out that he may be guilty of two or even three counts of felonies. He will also probably be sued for the cost of the investigation. He has lost two jobs already due to this and probably will be unemployable going forward. And with Trump asking about the slander to MAGA it suggests when all that is said and done he could still be sued by MAGA, as ironic as that is since instead of harm his pretense will ultimately be more help to Trump's MAGA campaign than anything else could be.

I heard someone say "America is so great he had to hire two guys from Nigeria to jump him".
02-22-2019 11:27 AM
Ohio
Politics and the Church

Take a look at this collection of HOAXES perpetrated on the American people to convince us that Trump and us all are hateful racists ...

On top of that lie, there were
  • The anti-Muslim hoax at the University of Michigan.
  • The bisexual hate mail hoax at North Park University.
  • The black woman accosted by Trump supporters hoax at a Philadelphia gas station.
  • The Muslim who had her hijab ripped off her head by a MAGA-hat wearing racist hoax in Louisiana.
  • The guy who spray-painted “Heil Trump” on his own church hoax in Indiana.
  • The Muslim woman attacked by Trump supporters hoax in New York.
  • The Whole Foods wrote “fag” on my cake hoax in Texas.
  • The white guy paints “nigger lover” on his own garage and sets his own cars on fire hoax in Texas.
  • The Muslim woman who slashed her own face hoax in New York.
  • The Muslim student writes hate graffiti on his own door hoax at Beloit College.
  • The black student who wrote racist notes hoax at St. Olaf College.
  • The guy in the Air Force who wrote “Go home nigger” to himself hoax in Colorado.
  • The man who wrote racist slurs on his own car hoax in Kansas City.
  • The non-white guy who wrote racist slurs in a bathroom hoax in Missouri.
  • The waiter who wrote a racist note to himself hoax in Texas.
  • The waitress who wrote a racist note to herself hoax in Texas.
  • The woman who slashed her own tires and wrote a note to herself hoax in Long Island.
  • The student who wrote racist notes to herself hoax at Drake University.
  • The black church burned in the name of Trump by a black parishioner hoax in Mississippi.
  • The Great Chipotle Race Hoax of 2018.
And on and on and on ….

This is why Smollett must face the full weight of the law.
02-21-2019 01:34 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
We need a way to resolve these "he said, she said, MeToo" accusations. Few of these can be prosecuted, and trials take way too long. What if Fairfax is totally innocent? There has to be standards of evidence to address these issues for elected officials.
I think this Smullett case demonstrates that the Lord's prophecy "what you say in secret will be shouted from the rooftop" is being fulfilled. Listen to the DA illustrate step by step how they were able to piece together the evidence and it should be a major revelation that we do have the power to resolve the true accusations from the false ones. The problem comes when someone makes an accusation that is 40 years old. We do have a process for those as well, it is supposed to be a grand jury which is supposed to be secret. The idea is that if you tell what you know but can't prove it might lend credence to other similar reports you were not aware of. But the Kavanaugh hearing violated that. Unless the congresswoman who did that grandstanding is held accountable we will see that again and again.
02-20-2019 05:30 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Jussie Smollett 'now officially classified as a suspect' in alleged attack: Police
Smollett longed to be a national hero successfully fighting off those evil Trump-supporting-MAGA-Land-Red-Cap-wearing white supremacist homophobes who attacked him in Chicago in the middle of the night.

Had they found two random white guys on the street that night, undoubtedly Smollett would have testified against them, convicting them for hate crimes. Two innocent men in prison would be the least of our problems though.

In Ferguson, the "Hands-Up-Don't-Shoot" hoax went viral overnight. We saw cities burned down and police officers get gunned down. Smollett's hoax could have launched riots worse than Rodney King, but by God's mercy, the surveillance cameras were aimed the wrong way.
02-20-2019 03:11 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Jussie Smollett 'now officially classified as a suspect' in alleged attack: Police
02-16-2019 05:50 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
Wow! After two years, I do believe you are starting to agree with what I have been saying. I can't believe my eyes!
I have been saying the same thing for the last 2 years. My point is that I am all for the investigation, not because I was convinced of Trump's guilt but because I felt the truth would be revealed. Just like Paul said "don't judge before the time".
02-16-2019 04:54 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Yes it does appear the tide is turning:

1. The hypocrisy of fighting Trump on border security when quite a few previous presidents including Democrats paid to build a fence on the border.

2. The insubordination of the FBI in plotting to overthrow the president. Even if they want to now claim it was merely coarse jesting it is something they should now be ashamed of.

3. This unraveling plot by these Empire actors to somehow discredit Trump supporters.

4. This investigation into Trump has gone on for 2 years. If they have uncovered evidence of our President colluding with Russia it is unthinkable that they would not have acted on it already.

5. The hypocrisy in how they treated Kavanaugh versus how they have treated Democrats with similar accusations about their high school years.

Like Mr. Weasley always says "truth will out".

Wow! After two years, I do believe you are starting to agree with what I have been saying. I can't believe my eyes!
02-16-2019 12:24 PM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
Now back to politics and the church :

“Let me say this as charitably as I can,” Dr. Robert Jeffress said on The Todd Starnes Radio Show. “These ‘Never Trump’ evangelicals are morons. They are absolutely spineless morons and they cannot admit that they were wrong.”

https://www.toddstarnes.com/show/jef...=recirculation
Yes it does appear the tide is turning:

1. The hypocrisy of fighting Trump on border security when quite a few previous presidents including Democrats paid to build a fence on the border.

2. The insubordination of the FBI in plotting to overthrow the president. Even if they want to now claim it was merely coarse jesting it is something they should now be ashamed of.

3. This unraveling plot by these Empire actors to somehow discredit Trump supporters.

4. This investigation into Trump has gone on for 2 years. If they have uncovered evidence of our President colluding with Russia it is unthinkable that they would not have acted on it already.

5. The hypocrisy in how they treated Kavanaugh versus how they have treated Democrats with similar accusations about their high school years.

Like Mr. Weasley always says "truth will out".
02-15-2019 05:36 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
OMG! I should have worn a condom!
That won't protect you from being an idiot.
02-15-2019 04:56 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Now back to politics and the church :

“Let me say this as charitably as I can,” Dr. Robert Jeffress said on The Todd Starnes Radio Show. “These ‘Never Trump’ evangelicals are morons. They are absolutely spineless morons and they cannot admit that they were wrong.”

https://www.toddstarnes.com/show/jef...=recirculation
02-15-2019 04:53 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
But, you can't blame her, since most of NYC and the aging posters here are also inflicted.
OMG! I should have worn a condom!
02-15-2019 06:02 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post

Ocasio is an idiot.
She merely has a systemic millennial disease -- lack of real education about history, politics, and economics -- hence, they are convinced that Robinhood socialism is utopian.

But, you can't blame her, since most of NYC and the aging posters here are also inflicted.

This is why we need a successful business man, like Bloomberg or Shultz, to run as an Independent in 2020.


Tell Gov. Cuomo and his buddies in Albany that they can console themselves with the slaughter of the unborn. Why don't they turn their pink lights on again. And they can always blame Trump for their economic woes, eh?
02-15-2019 05:49 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Perhaps, but the IRS has ruled that once pastors act like a political action committee they have lost their tax exempt status.

It is one thing to preach from the Bible against abortion, it is another to castigate Christians for being anti Trump. That is political speech and is not tax exempt.
Then why do we constantly see Democrats politicking in black churches?

Any idea what democrats do to their own who go off the reservation?

We need fair rules for all, not selective application, like we see with deep state actors who launched the Trump Dossier.
02-15-2019 05:30 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
That upstart. That whippersnapper. That green behind the ears. That freshman. That young-blood. That interloper. AOC? Is a fireplug, a firebrand. That can leap tall buildings, and even stop the richest man in the world, Jeff Bezos. Like it or not, she's a wonder woman ... shaping history.

So look out for her Green New Deal. She's coming for your cars, not your guns.
“A small group of politicians put their own narrow political interests above their community — which poll after poll showed overwhelmingly supported bringing Amazon to Long Island City — the state’s economic future and the best interests of the people of this state,” the governor said in a statement.

Her issue was that the company was getting $3 billion in tax incentives. This is a good example of how those who are not good at math cause all the problems. Giving $3 billion in tax incentives doesn't mean you give them $3 billion, it means you give them tax breaks. What are they going to do? Build a headquarters employing construction workers and engineers and architects as well as purchasing lots of building supplies. All of those industries will be paying tax. Then they will hire 25,000 workers, all of whom will be paying tax. Once the incentives run out Amazon.com will be centered here and paying tax. In addition their location here would raise property values, which in turn raises property tax. By giving $3 billion in tax incentives you get more than $3 billion in tax revenue.

Then there is the peripheral benefit. For example this would have been a great opportunity for college students at CUNY, Columbia, Cooper Union, and NYU. Students would want to go to those schools knowing that getting a job as an intern is likely. Also there are contractors who work with Amazon.com that would have benefited.

Ocasio is an idiot.

So what are their claims: Amazon claimed 50,000 jobs would come to NYC but now are only planning on hiring 25,000. Corporations need to pay their fair share of taxes. Also, prices would go up so if you are renting it would make your life more expensive. The first complaint is a great example of how people who don't understand math are really the cause of all problems, the second two concerns are very reasonable concerns, but this in no way addresses that. 50,000 jobs coming to NYC includes all the peripheral jobs, not just the 25,000 they hire. This has been proven. These people buy houses, that gives jobs to real estate agents and construction workers. They buy groceries, have day care, get their hair done, etc. What do you do with your paycheck, if 90% of it goes to expenses and those expenses are paid to people in your neighborhood, these 25,000 good paying jobs support another 25,000 service jobs.

As for the other 2 concerns: Do you think kicking Amazon.com out of NYC will change corporations getting tax breaks? The reason corporations get tax breaks is because cities live on jobs. If you don't have jobs the city dies. Taxing corporations is stupid, even income tax is stupid. The only tax that makes sense is a sales tax. See the thread on a city divided.

Second, it is true that if you rent and do not have an advanced degree your rent might go up and you wouldn't get one of those high paying jobs they wanted. It is also true that the neighborhood they were planning to build in might not be the true beneficiary as the best jobs would probably go to people who live in the suburbs and might be moving to NYC.

So the beneficiaries are those who own property and have higher education, but the neighborhood they want to build in is filled with people who are neither property owners or highly educated. What then will be the solution? Will Amazon.com instead move to Westchester or Long Island, wealthier neighborhoods? Suppose they do that, what happens to that poor neighborhood they were going to move to? This is how the poor get poorer and the rich get richer.

So what is the solution? For corporations not paying their fair share, eliminate all corporate taxes. If taxes were solely sales tax there is no way Amazon.com gets any tax break at all. Also if the problem is poor education what we need is to fund education for the inner city with programs like the one funded by Amazon.com. And how about the poor, what could they do to change from being poor to becoming an owner? Perhaps start their own business and sell on Amazon.com. I heard of people who literally buy stuff at Walmart and then resell it on Amazon.com. If someone is living in a rural area it is like hiring your personal "buyer" to get what you need and then mail it to you.

Like I said, Ocasio is an idiot and all those singing her song are merely expressing their ignorance.
02-15-2019 05:24 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
It doesn't violate the separation of church and state because that limits the state, not the church.


But what Jeffers did violates the truth.
Perhaps, but the IRS has ruled that once pastors act like a political action committee they have lost their tax exempt status.

It is one thing to preach from the Bible against abortion, it is another to castigate Christians for being anti Trump. That is political speech and is not tax exempt.
02-15-2019 05:22 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
When learning to trust people, we need to know what to look for.

It also helps to know the character of those who hate him.
My judgement was not based on pundits, it was based on his words, his behavior for many, many years. I have seen Donald Trump repeatedly in NY.
02-14-2019 08:32 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
If I had trusted Trump to stand this strongly for a pro life stance I would have voted for him in the last election. I didn't vote for either candidate because I had seen enough of Clinton to not vote for her and didn't trust Trump.
When learning to trust people, we need to know what to look for.

It also helps to know the character of those who hate him.
02-14-2019 08:24 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness View Post
That upstart. That whippersnapper. That green behind the ears. That freshman. That young-blood. That interloper. AOC? Is a fireplug, a firebrand. That can leap tall buildings, and even stop the richest man in the world, Jeff Bezos. Like it or not, she's a wonder woman ... shaping history.

So look out for her Green New Deal. She's coming for your cars, not your guns.
Will she really stop Bezos? Hardly.

But AOC and The Green Dream is coming for more than cars and guns. What will they have to take from you before you learn who is hiding behind the curtain? How long will her pretty smile deceive you?
02-14-2019 08:12 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNP
I didn't vote for either candidate because I had seen enough of Clinton to not vote for her and didn't trust Trump.
Ditto bro ZNP. I did a write in.
02-14-2019 08:10 PM
awareness
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I guess those Amazon jobs were no good for NYC. Yea AOC!
That upstart. That whippersnapper. That green behind the ears. That freshman. That young-blood. That interloper. AOC? Is a fireplug, a firebrand. That can leap tall buildings, and even stop the richest man in the world, Jeff Bezos. Like it or not, she's a wonder woman ... shaping history.

So look out for her Green New Deal. She's coming for your cars, not your guns.
02-14-2019 06:52 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
This article goes to the very heart of the first post on this thread and the quote from WN.

Abortion is a very visceral issue that is clearly and undeniably tied to the Bible. However, the connection to the OT is much closer than the NT.

1. Should a Christian pastor take a very visible position on this issue as a Pastor. Does that violate the separation of church and state?

2. We all agree that as a citizen he has every right that any other citizen has to voice his opinion, vote, and support political candidates. But, does he violate some NT principle by condemning Christians for their political choices?

I personally am pro life. If I had trusted Trump to stand this strongly for a pro life stance I would have voted for him in the last election. I didn't vote for either candidate because I had seen enough of Clinton to not vote for her and didn't trust Trump. However, I think it crosses a line both according to US law and according to the NT to make this a test of your Christian faith or a basis for judging your brother and sister.
It doesn't violate the separation of church and state because that limits the state, not the church.


But what Jeffers did violates the truth.
02-14-2019 06:48 PM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

I guess those Amazon jobs were no good for NYC. Yea AOC!

That's what happens when you elect politicians who believe wealthy employers are evil.

The same thing happened to Cleveland about the time I left. The "people's mayor" Dennis Kucinich nearly destroyed that city. Businesses left in droves to the suburbs.
02-14-2019 07:35 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
‘Spineless Morons’ — Dallas Megachurch Pastor Rips ‘NeverTrump’ Evangelicals

Here's an example of one minister who has completely lost sight of the Gospel for political causes. He now condemns other Christians for not supporting Trump.
This article goes to the very heart of the first post on this thread and the quote from WN.

Abortion is a very visceral issue that is clearly and undeniably tied to the Bible. However, the connection to the OT is much closer than the NT.

1. Should a Christian pastor take a very visible position on this issue as a Pastor. Does that violate the separation of church and state?

2. We all agree that as a citizen he has every right that any other citizen has to voice his opinion, vote, and support political candidates. But, does he violate some NT principle by condemning Christians for their political choices?

I personally am pro life. If I had trusted Trump to stand this strongly for a pro life stance I would have voted for him in the last election. I didn't vote for either candidate because I had seen enough of Clinton to not vote for her and didn't trust Trump. However, I think it crosses a line both according to US law and according to the NT to make this a test of your Christian faith or a basis for judging your brother and sister.
02-14-2019 07:28 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
I definitely agree.

If Mexico don't pay for the wall, a Mexican will.

Think about it. It's criminals like El Crapo that force us to spend billions to protect our citizens, so when he gets caught, all him money should be used to protect our citizens.
That is the basic concept of RICO, so the law is well established.

Generally the law enforcement agency credited with the bust gets the money and assets for their budget. The only adjustment that needs to be made is to view some of these busts as being part of our "border security". In this way NYC police and LA police and Chicago police could get money that is then dubbed as "going to border security". This is reasonable. How do you think we catch these $30 million dollar busts of cash being driven across the border? It is much easier for a local police officer to trace a $5 bill to a cash house where the money is bagged. If the Feds always get the money why should these police do this job?
02-14-2019 06:56 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
Universal healthcare makes sense, to those who are paying for it. Who wants the person on the bus, or the train, or at your kids school, or at the McDonald's etc. to have some contagious disease like Tuberculosis which they can't treat because they don't have insurance. It is the same reason that fire departments put out fires regardless of whether or not the homeowner is up to date on their taxes.
I'm for universal healthcare. The same quality of care that our politicians get.
02-14-2019 06:54 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah View Post
The US govt seizes about $350 million per year being smuggled across the Mexican border, a form of money laundering for drug dealers.

This money should go towards border security with the broadest understanding of the term. So if a LA police dept is involved in the bust that involvement should be viewed as part of our "border security" and some of the money should go to that dept.

If a car is driving across the border with $30 million in cash in vacuum sealed bags then they are driving from point A (where the money was bagged) to point B (the drug supplier in Mexico). That by definition is a conspiracy and allows us to use RICO which in turns allows us to go after all assets and retrieve 5x's the amount tied to crimes. This is the basis for seizing El Chapo's $14 billion. So, there is plenty of money out there to fund border security paid for by the criminals.
I definitely agree.

If Mexico don't pay for the wall, a Mexican will.

Think about it. It's criminals like El Crapo that force us to spend billions to protect our citizens, so when he gets caught, all him money should be used to protect our citizens.
02-14-2019 06:51 AM
Ohio
Re: Politics and the Church

‘Spineless Morons’ — Dallas Megachurch Pastor Rips ‘NeverTrump’ Evangelicals

Here's an example of one minister who has completely lost sight of the Gospel for political causes. He now condemns other Christians for not supporting Trump.
02-14-2019 06:08 AM
ZNPaaneah
Re: Politics and the Church

The US govt seizes about $350 million per year being smuggled across the Mexican border, a form of money laundering for drug dealers.

This money should go towards border security with the broadest understanding of the term. So if a LA police dept is involved in the bust that involvement should be viewed as part of our "border security" and some of the money should go to that dept.

If a car is driving across the border with $30 million in cash in vacuum sealed bags then they are driving from point A (where the money was bagged) to point B (the drug supplier in Mexico). That by definition is a conspiracy and allows us to use RICO which in turns allows us to go after all assets and retrieve 5x's the amount tied to crimes. This is the basis for seizing El Chapo's $14 billion. So, there is plenty of money out there to fund border security paid for by the criminals.
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