Originally Posted by UntoHim

This is a very nice sentiment, StG!, but I'm afraid it's not a very biblical sentiment. The last Adam becoming a life-giving spirit (most reputable translations use a small s) will ultimately facilitate our bodies being transformed and glorified at the resurrection of all believers who have died up to the Lord Jesus' second coming. The subject of 1 Corinthians 15 is not the church, unless you think the church age really starts at the Lord's second coming! The main subject of this wonderful chapter is an answer to the question in verse 35: But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?” This question was actually answered in the Gospels, but it seems that the Corinthians had not yet been taught and fully imbibe the true and complete Gospel. (Most biblical historians posit that Paul's letters predate the widespread distribution of the written synoptic Gospels)

Verse 20 and 23 also gives a big clue to what this chapter is all about: "In fact, Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him." Notice the specific order here: Firstly "Christ the firstfruits". There is little doubt that this is referring to the death, and especially the resurrection, of the Lord Jesus. (cf: "he is the firstborn from among the dead" - Col 1:18) Our Lord's resurrection was not only a fact of history (praise God for this fact!) it was an inauguration of sorts - one in which the Lord Jesus "took office" immediately upon his resurrection, and at the same time Jesus' resurrection was/is the catylist for every believers' bodily resurrection - at which time we will receive a spiritual body"to be like his glorious body". (Phil 3:21) Then will come the full and complete import and meaning of "when Christ appears, we shall be like him". (1 John 3:2)
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Originally Posted by Nell

First, questions: If the verses were properly translated, if woman was built from a "rib" from the side of the man, why does the verse say "of his flesh and of his bones"?
Why does it not it simply say "we are members of his body, of his bones"?
As you have noted, could there be a translation issue? Is it possible that there is more than one translation issue?
Nell

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Originally Posted by Raptor

Galatians 4:19
My children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you,

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

So can we say this, "The church is NOT Christ"?

Originally Posted by Ohio

You must first define the church and define Christ.

Otherwise those buildings in town are the Creator and Savior of the world.

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Good! And could we say Eve was a picture of the church?

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's not so much about the church, but about resurrection. Firstly the Last Adam, then those who are Christ's.

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Yes, as I also pointed out earlier - it is not included in most minority (earlier) texts. So that notwithstanding, the passage I presented in 1 Corinthians 15:20-49 in a subsequent post (see post #6) is talking about what?

Originally Posted by Raptor

Well, there is definately some identification between Christ and His believers going on in these verses. How much? We don't know. It´s a mystery.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

Acts 9:1-5
Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the disciples of the Lord. He approached the high priest 2and requested letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any men or women belonging to the Way, he could bring them as prisoners to Jerusalem. As Saul drew near to Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?” “Who are You, Lord?” Saul asked. “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” He replied.

Matthew 25:40
Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.

Ephesians 5:28-32
In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. Indeed, no one ever hated his own body, but he nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church. For we are members of His body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, but I am speaking about Christ and the church.

Originally Posted by Ohio

The better Greek Texts do not have this extra section in red.

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

For we are members of his body, of His flesh, and of His bones. Ephesians 5:30

(Note: Some translations omit the last part of Ephesians 5:30, "of His flesh, and of His bones." However, my Greek interlinear has it.)

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Yep. What else?

Originally Posted by Ohio

So, what is the church? All the brothers and sisters of the Firstborn, who have the life of God, and are now the children of God.

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Yes, that's why I started this thread - to present the idea and have a discussion with you and others. Thanks.

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

It's interesting that this passage is where the phrase, "The Last Adam [became] a life-giving Spirit" is used, isn't it? The context, to me, shows that the reason the Last Adam became a life-giving Spirit is for the producing of the church! This is the result of the One Grain dying. The first Adam had a rib taken to produce his wife; similarly, something came out from the Last Adam to produce His wife!

I must declare it again: WHAT HAS GOD WROUGHT!?

Just remembered to add these verses (20-22) from the same chapter:
Quote:
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Again, this whole passage in 1st Corinthians 15 is talking about producing the church!

Originally Posted by Ohio

I believe that the scripture sets the boundaries for the truth. WL regularly tore those boundaries down, and arrived at all sorts of crazy conclusions, such as like when he said he had become God in life, and when he became fourth in the hierarchical order of the flow of God.

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

So watayathimk - is it too far off the mark to say the church is Christ based on those verses?

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Personally speaking, from what I've seen, many Christians do not have a very full picture of what the ekklesia is really being called into - the bride and body of Christ, and a dwelling place of God in Spirit.

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Well I think that says something about this forum - that you find little to share with your wife! (is it normally of little value, or nothing that would be edifying, or . . . ?)

Originally Posted by Ohio

Thanks, Raptor, for your "digging." I like this.

It's rare when I find something here suitable to share with my wife.

Originally Posted by Nell

First, questions:

If the verses were properly translated, if woman was built from a "rib" from the side of the man, why does the verse say "of his flesh and of his bones"?
Why does it not it simply say "we are members of his body, of his bones"?

As you have noted, could there be a translation issue? Is it possible that there is more than one translation issue?

Nell

Originally Posted by Nell

First, questions:

If the verses were properly translated, if woman was built from a "rib" from the side of the man, why does the verse say "of his flesh and of his bones"?
Why does it not it simply say "we are members of his body, of his bones"?

As you have noted, could there be a translation issue? Is it possible that there is more than one translation issue?

Nell

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

...With that said, I ran across some profound verses from Genesis and Ephesians that I'm really considering this week, which are stretching my thinking in this matter:[

And the LORD God built (lit.) the rib which he took from Adam into a woman: and brought her to Adam. And Adam said:
“This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” Genesis 2:22-23

For we are members of his body, of His flesh, and of His bones. Ephesians 5:30

(Note: Some translations omit the last part of Ephesians 5:30, "of His flesh, and of His bones." However, my Greek interlinear has it.)
...

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

We've had a few discussions on here about who believers and the church are in Christ, that is: what is our new identity in Him? I think WL is alleged to have said, "God became man so man could become God." I'm not sure the authenticity of this quote, since I didn't hear it firsthand. But, to be sure, what God is doing through Christ and the church is something way beyond natural comprehension! However, I agree that this alleged saying of WL goes father than scripture (at least according to what I've seen so far).