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07-22-2019 09:50 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() Thanks to the BBs for their continual supply of great material! |
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07-09-2019 11:57 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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07-08-2019 05:51 AM | |||
Ohio |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Quote:
One, Unique “Minister of the Age”? – What Did Watchman Nee Teach? Another related article: Witness Lee, the “Wise Master Builder,” & the “Acting God” And another: One, Unique ‘Minister of the Age’ – What do the “Blended Co-workers” Teach? |
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07-05-2019 10:05 PM | |||
JJ |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA I think you said it well enough in your post #75. The New Testament ministers were many, and they actually worked together without trashing each other in spite of occasional disagreements and getting corrected by another when they erred. Old Testament types of Noah, Moses, etc were types of Christ. MOTA is pure hogwash and doesn’t justify much more than a simple comparison between the real apostles and TLR’s to get clear. |
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07-05-2019 04:54 AM | |||
Raptor |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Are there any papers here in this forum that offer a comprehensive and detailed scriptural exposition debunking the MOTA myth? |
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07-03-2019 07:07 PM | |||
awareness |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Quote:
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07-03-2019 01:37 PM | |||
aron |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA That's why the age turned. Suddenly spiritual giants were a threat. So MOTA WE declared that age over, cutting off MOTA TC at the pass. TC had 2 choices - become a small potato and grovel - sorry, submit - or get out. And on such the ages of humankind are supposed to hinge. |
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07-03-2019 10:08 AM | |||
Ohio |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Quote:
And there definitely would have been some "purges," recovery style. Lee himself saw it coming. TC knew him better than any. Lee knew that only MOTA WE could stand up against MOTA TC. |
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07-03-2019 07:17 AM | |||
aron |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Quote:
Quote:
Disciple: "MOTA, what's the vision of the age?" MOTA: "That there's only one vision per age." Disciple: "Okay, then what's the vision for this age?" MOTA: "I told you - that there's one vision per age." Disciple: "I don't get it." MOTA: "You need the vision to get it." Disciple: "What vision, MOTA?" MOTA: "Easy, silly one. You have to have the vision of the age, to get it." Disciple: "Ohhhh! Now I get it! I didn't understand it before! What a vision!" MOTA: "Yes, it's nearly overwhelming, once you grasp it." Seriously, it reminds me nothing so much as Pol Pot & Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. They took over, pronounced it the Year Zero, that humankind started over with them. The same self-obsessed hubris becoming collective lunacy. Before Nee took over "the mantle", you could have multiple hymn-writers being simultaneously inspired by God to compose songs for the church. You could have Congregationalists in the Colonies and Methodists in England, Lutherans in Germany and Reformed Dutch in South Africa, all subjectively experiencing Christ, and expressing in a non-coordinated way the varied graces of God. The LC was kool with that, even called it their "goodly heritage". Once Nee put quill to parchment, however, the age turned. Only one hymn-writing outlet, on the "proper ground", under the "genuine ministry". All others became instant Babylon. Amazing how fast it became the "Age of Oneness". Suddenly you couldn't do anything without "fellowship". If HQ didn't sign off, forget about it. Is it aligned with the vision? Then drop it. I remember when some of the Jesus Freaks started putting psalms to music. Keith Green, "Create in me a clean heart". Some of it made it into the LC. When WL heard of this, he put the kibosh to it, right quick. We couldn't have anyone outside the "local ground" getting inspired by the Holy Spirit. Didn't you know the age had turned? Nothing out there. Babylon. MOTA says so, and he should know, right? Or, what about Nee's fabled collection of 3,000 "Christian classics"? Do you think that 30 sequential MOTAs wrote 100 books each? No? Before Watchman Nee, one could (again) see multiple un-coordinated sources of inspiration and enlightenment. The Spirit of God could move over the face of the earth, and turn in the hearts of humanity, but once Nee started to minister, the Christian earth just dried up and became Babylon. In a stroke, Protestantism suddenly went from "Recovery" to "Great Gilded Harlot". No vision out there, any more. Just amazing, how fast things changed... a 25-year-old in China copied Jessie Penn-Lewis and published "Spiritual Man" and the HS suddenly was limited to one human vessel at a time. What an age-turning vision. |
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07-03-2019 06:03 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Nee and Lee came up with the concept of MOTA and applied it to themselves, creating a back-history mythology to support it. Then, just a soon as the concept was "recovered," there are conveniently no more MOTAs. Amazing! So Nee and Lee were the only MOTAs who "knew" they were MOTAs. That doesn't raise any suspicions? I have the feeling that Titus Chu always expected to be the next MOTA. He was as "qualified" as any and more than most. That's why the Blendeds had to squash him. Of course, he would have been a disaster in that role, being the bully that he was. It would have been like going from Lenin to Stalin. |
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07-03-2019 04:31 AM | |||
Ohio |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Quote:
How can anyone take Lee's version of church history seriously? It was all so self-serving, with gaping holes in his historical theories, until JNDarby came along followed by WNee. How convenient for those whose memory of church history only went back a century or so. Exclusive Brethren also re-enacted these same mythological genealogies as the Roman popes, and today boast of "Oracles" going back to Darby. The only surprise here is the breakdown begun with the Blendeds "We." Where's the beef, I mean "Where's my MOTA?" How can we have "Recovery" with no MOTA? How can we ever know what God wants to say? ![]() |
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07-03-2019 02:54 AM | |||
aron |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Quote:
I think that ages changed so rapidly and arbitrarily because the ministry had to change the rules to adjust for circumstances. Like with WN, when they were trying to throw off the Western yoke, it was all about localism. Then, when it was time to consolidate, WN discovered the Jerusalem Principle. Likewise, ages came and went in Anaheim, depending on the perceived need at any given moment. One could go from "law" to "grace" and back again in a fortnight. |
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07-03-2019 01:22 AM | |||
Raptor |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Where can I find what LSM considers "the age" in the MOTA phrase? What is their definition of "age". Age of grace? Church age? New Testament age? 20th century? Last days age? |
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07-02-2019 09:16 AM | |||
awareness |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Quote:
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07-02-2019 07:57 AM | |||
Raptor |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Today´s MOTA debunk: There is no scriptural basis for "one minister of the age" in the New Testament. God did raise unique men of God in the Old Testament, like Noah, Moses, Joshua, David, but they are types of Christ. When the New Testament began, all those types are over, because the reality, Jesus Christ came. No believer should consider himself a fulfillment of any of those types. Only Christ. He is the Minister of the age, He is still here on the earth (as well as in ascension at the right hand of God), alive, in resurrection, ministering as the High Priest to the churches. Christ is the Minister of the age, the Head, with many ministers sent out by Him, the members of His Body. |
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06-14-2019 07:07 PM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() My son actually does this. He has won prizes and scholarship money! ![]() |
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05-02-2019 08:49 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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04-23-2019 10:40 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Why Deputy Authority Must Be Limited How Overbearing Deputy Authority Can Get Out of Hand The Solution to Deputy Authority |
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04-20-2019 06:15 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() This will be last MOTA for awhile. I'm going to take a break and recharge my batteries. Thanks! Igzy |
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04-18-2019 09:32 PM | |||
Nell |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Quote:
Not only are they "timid" to declare their relationship with Witness Lee and the Local Churches, they do not hesitate to offer disingenuous statements to the public as follows in two newspaper articles where long time elder, Jerry McGill, is interviewed: The Dallas Morning News: October 20, 1995 SpringPark residents oppose church Religious group to continue seeking site Jayne Noble Staff Writer of The Dallas Morning News GARLAND - Hundreds of homeowners around the SpringPark addition have signed a petition opposed to The Church in Richardson moving into their neighborhood. Mr. (Jerry) McGill said that he is aware of the organization, which sometimes is called The Local Church and is named after the cities where services are held. But Mr. McGill said The Church in Richardson does not have any "official ties with any church." "We have no central headquarters . . . no organizational leader or ties to anything," he said. "We're an independent,Bible-believing church with no affiliation . . . just like a lot of churches in Garland." "The Dallas Morning News November 8, 1995 Residents fighting church Lawyer hired to halt a move to Garland Jayne Noble Staff Writer of The Dallas Morning News GARLAND - Homeowners near the SpringPark addition have hired an attorney to fight plans by The Church in Richardson to move into their neighborhood." ... "Some people say they are also concerned about the church's practices and its ties to other churches in Austin and Arlington, whose members profess to follow a Chinese spiritual leader named Witness Lee. The churches are sometimes called Local Churches and are named after the cities where services are held. (...Quoting Jerry McGill, elder in The Church in Richardson: ) Mr. McGill said this week that he has "had fellowship" with those churches, but that each is independent and that members "don't consider that the church, as the body of Christ, is an organization." This is total prevarication. Jerry McGill, not only "has knowledge" of and "had fellowship with", McGill had been meeting with the Church in Dallas for years in various leadership roles, and had been to many trainings and conferences with Witness Lee. He was attempting to minimize his relationship with the Witness Lee in order to assuage the skepticism of the home owners in Garland, Texas, a suburb of Dallas...clearly hiding something. Ultimately the residents of Spring Park prevailed. The Church in Richardson was unsuccessful in getting the zoning laws changed so they could "build a church" in their neighborhood. Nell |
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04-18-2019 06:56 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Just a note: This was meant in good fun. I'm not actually saying here that LR members are nuts. I'm saying that Lee's attitude implies he expects them to be a little nutty. His attitude actually reflected this. He was coy about publicly saying he was an apostle. His obvious reasoning was that he didn't want to open himself to ridicule. The fact is he knew the claim was nutty. Yet, on the other hand, he clearly wanted his followers to think he was some kind of major apostle. Which means, as the comic satirizes, he expected them to accept the nuttiness of it, meaning he expected them to be a little nutty. This continues with the current leadership. Clearly they think Lee was a major apostle, yet they are oddly timid to declare this publicly. On the one hand, they expect all followers to give him such respect, honor and corresponding obedience, on the other hand they are hedging their bets publicly, because they know they would be made to look foolish if they actually declared what they believe. Simply put, it is double-mindedness and duplicity, which in the end is nutty. |
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04-18-2019 06:07 AM | |||
ZNPaaneah |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA I recall WL calling religion the egg shell, and Jesus was the chicken. I guess this means the LC was the nut shell. |
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04-18-2019 05:43 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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04-15-2019 06:37 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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04-12-2019 06:58 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Thanks JJ! |
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04-11-2019 08:42 PM | |||
JJ |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA This last one is hilarious, Igzy. ![]() |
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04-11-2019 04:53 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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04-08-2019 05:48 AM | |||
Ohio |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA As "proof" of this, I tell you all that "I can't even control a single mosquito!" |
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04-07-2019 06:57 PM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Another tip of the cap to aron for this idea! ![]() |
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04-03-2019 11:12 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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04-01-2019 06:46 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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03-27-2019 09:56 AM | |||
Ohio |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Quote:
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03-27-2019 09:40 AM | |||
ZNPaaneah |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA I am reading about the Enron collapse which was all about this one crook named Fastow who is eerily reminiscent of WL in certain respects. Many people in the company felt he was naive, a fool, poorly educated, a lightweight, and made incredibly foolish blunders in some of the things he said. However he was very vindictive, anyone who said a word against him got fired, or reassigned to the far reaches of the company. He had a small cadre of very loyal underlings (think PL, etc). They were more than happy to be criminal in return for lots and lots of extra money. Finally, he portrayed himself as the greatest CFO, who was doing "unique" and "creative" things. Anyone who disagreed with him was a cow who lacked creativity. They were lambasted for being overly focused on rules. It is very clear in hindsight that his actions were criminal, what is not so clear is if he realized he was a criminal and the whole spiel was simply a scam, or if he was so naive as to be deceived as well. Anyway his MO was jedi mind tricks to cheat on the taxes and earnings statements. |
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03-27-2019 05:56 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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03-25-2019 08:18 PM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Thanks, JJ! As long as I keep getting good ideas, I will. |
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03-25-2019 07:44 PM | |||
JJ |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Hah! Keep em comin Igzy! |
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03-25-2019 07:00 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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03-22-2019 06:55 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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03-20-2019 05:08 PM | |||
Ohio |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Quote:
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03-20-2019 02:06 PM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Quote:
"Anyone?"... "Anyone?" Billy Graham was one of a kind. He reached more people that probably the next 50 best evangelists together did. But "anyone" could do it? "Anyone..." That's LR arrogance for you right there. |
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03-20-2019 12:48 PM | |||
Ohio |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA As I was told, "Billy Graham didn't see the church." And more pathetically, "anyone can give birth to many babies, but who is raising them up?" |
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03-20-2019 10:25 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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03-18-2019 08:39 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Quote:
You aren't the only one, bro. |
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03-18-2019 08:33 AM | |||
Ohio |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Me too. I have a neighbor friend who is a devout, believing Catholic, who counsels clients in his law practice. One day in passing, he said sarcasm comes from the Greek words "cut flesh." Until then I had always considered sarcasm to be a highly effective means of communication. Something to consider. |
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03-18-2019 08:06 AM | |||
aron |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Re: Strip #24, panel 3 It is probably significant that the letters were addressed to the angel of the church in that city. Not to the elders or to the church in general. And yes it does trump the "street address" idea that I heard in a LC meeting. "The Lord knows those who are His" - I don't think the angel needed a physical set of coordinates from Jesus. It was understood who was the Lord's flock. A Book Publisher doesn't determine this. Now, as to multiple assemblies: We have the epistle to the Romans which tells them to "greet the church" in someone's house (16:5), a house in Rome, I presume. So "ekklesia" could mean what we call "meeting", like "the home meeting in Sister Smith's house". This is corroborated by Acts 17 where the city clerk dismisses the "ekklesia" which is clearly not what we'd call a "church" but would be called a "meeting" or "gathering" or "assembly" (v.41). It was an ekklesia, just not a very pleasant one. Furthermore, Jesus spoke of "my ekklesia", meaning there were ekklesia not of Jesus, like the one dismissed by the city clerk in Acts 17. If one looks at the usage of the word "ekklesia" in the first century, this NT usage is consistent with that. There were multiple ekklesia occurring in any given metropolis. Some were of Jesus, some were not. And the Lord knows who are His. The question is, do we? Do we know God, or rather are we known by Him? I think this is in our living, and we all need to look to ourselves. This is the "practical church life" - how we behave, and how we treat others. This is not determined by a Book Publishing House, sorry. The Lord knows who are His. So let us abstain from poor behavior, and make the glad confession, and endevour to go on together, best as we can. And I do apologize for my overly sharp tone. I see poor arguments and people getting carried along by them, and the damage caused. So I get exasperated. But my lack of peace and charity is my own issue. Mea culpa. I'm working on it. |
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03-18-2019 06:43 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Another hat tip to aron for this idea! ![]() |
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03-15-2019 08:05 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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03-12-2019 08:31 PM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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03-11-2019 06:40 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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03-08-2019 06:01 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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03-06-2019 08:23 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Thanks, Harold! |
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03-06-2019 08:07 AM | |||
awareness |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Now that's a great one. Good job bro. |
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03-06-2019 06:06 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Hat tip to aron for this idea! ![]() |
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03-04-2019 09:50 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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03-03-2019 07:54 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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03-01-2019 08:51 AM | |||
awareness |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Misplaced faith. |
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03-01-2019 07:25 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Quote:
Guess which kind "the vision" requires. |
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03-01-2019 07:07 AM | |||
aron |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Re: "If you want to have a discussion, you have to use language I can understand" In the LC this is called "the vision". In order to participate in the discussion you have to have the vision. There will be some questionable assertion by the MOTA, and then you'll need the vision. Otherwise you don't get it, because it makes little if any sense. "You just need the vision, brother". |
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03-01-2019 05:41 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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02-27-2019 06:04 PM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA After a hiatus, MOTA returns! ![]() |
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01-21-2017 06:53 PM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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01-14-2017 10:31 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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01-05-2017 10:17 PM | |||
JJ |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Welcome to the Hotel CaliforNeeLee You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. ![]() |
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01-05-2017 04:53 PM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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01-02-2017 05:43 AM | |||
Ohio |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Great story. ![]() "Inspired by true events." |
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01-02-2017 05:16 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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12-30-2016 08:46 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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12-26-2016 04:45 PM | |||
Timotheist |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA The guy on the left will NOT be a recurring character, as he will soon be sued into silence |
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12-26-2016 04:29 PM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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12-21-2016 01:17 PM | |||
Ohio |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() Having spent lots of time with the college kids outside the meetings, I know this fits. |
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12-21-2016 10:41 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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12-19-2016 08:24 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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12-17-2016 10:33 AM | |||
Ohio |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA So many times when I got manipulated into something against my will, I would get strongly exhorted to "take a stand." It was really the "spiritual" equivalent of "bend over." |
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12-17-2016 09:37 AM | |||
JJ |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA LOL! Does the upside down guy have his eyes closed? Ah, these stick figures do limit the animation possibilities ![]() |
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12-17-2016 05:22 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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12-16-2016 06:37 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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12-15-2016 11:54 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Thank you! |
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12-15-2016 11:14 AM | |||
Ohio |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Minister Of The Age |
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12-15-2016 11:01 AM | |||
DistantStar |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA What's a "MOTA"? |
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12-15-2016 10:42 AM | |||
Ohio |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA I love the stick-man gestures. So informative. |
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12-15-2016 10:29 AM | |||
DistantStar |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA I really like these. Keep them coming. |
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12-15-2016 06:58 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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12-14-2016 09:15 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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12-14-2016 09:14 AM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Thanks JJ! |
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12-13-2016 09:55 PM | |||
JJ |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Funny cartoons, Igzy! "The truth hurts" ![]() |
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12-13-2016 07:11 PM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA Thanks and thanks for the ideas! It's www.toondoo.com |
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12-13-2016 06:40 PM | |||
Intothewind |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA These are great! ...care to share the software? A few sketches of the following would be of interest -bearing/gaining fruit off the campuses -going to the FTTA -dating in the church life -taking the ground in a locality |
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12-13-2016 01:41 PM | |||
Cal |
Re: New Comic Strip -- MOTA ![]() |
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12-12-2016 01:51 PM | |||
Cal |
New Comic Strip -- MOTA I've long wanted to do a comic strip on the LC. But I'm not much of an artist. I finally found some software to help. Below is my first installment. I hope you like it. More to come. ![]() |