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03-29-2019 08:40 AM

Cal

Re: Layman's Fellowship

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron

That, my friends, is Leadership. And that is Obedience. Now who can follow that, and elevate themselves above the flock? That was his acts. And his teaching was apace: "If you get invited to the feast, take the least place" Luke 14:8. So his life and teaching was a continuous whole. In this light we can interpret Paul, and the book of Acts, and the epistles. Only in this light. If we take Paul's epistle to the Ephesians, "apostles, prophets and teachers" and use human organisational principles, we get the weird stuff that we see.

Great point, aron. Self-promotion is incompatible with servant-leadership.

The LR self-promotes on every level: Their founder, their movement, their ministry, their bible, their churches, their songs, everything, all are "God's best."

Neither Jesus nor Paul had such an attitude. Jesus was literally the Son of God, but we have to search for clues in the Bible where he hints that he is God, because he was trying to model servant-leadership for us. Paul knew he had an important message, but called himself "less than the least," and credited the "grace given" for what he had done in service.

When was the last time you heard anyone in the LR credit grace for what they claim to be?

This should be a guiding principle for all of us, and a strong indictment of the LR. Things truly of God don't self-promote. I'm not saying that you can't let people know you are here. I'm saying any hint that you think you are better than anyone else should be viewed as a red flag. God doesn't share the stage with anyone--not only because he's the only one who deserves glory, but because he knows it is not good for anyone for someone to "think more highly of himself than he ought to." It isn't good for the boaster, and it isn't good for the people who believe the boasting.

One great thing about humility is it's hard to fake. A proud person just cannot resist promoting himself, even while trying to pretend to be humble. Some of the time the LR doesn't even try.

03-29-2019 07:40 AM

aron

Re: Layman's Fellowship

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Anderson

I felt led to start to search the scriptures and seek the Lord on the subjects of Leadership, Authority, Submission and Obedience. I wasn't anxious to do this because there is no way through these subjects successfully. So, I took the journey one step at a time with the Lord (as best as I know how).

I don't consider the material I have on Laymans Fellowship to be definitive or even fully correct. It is intended more to open dialogue on a complex subject.

I'm bringing this forward in light of the recent threads on "modern apostles" like NAR and the LC variant, that of Nee/Lee/Chu/Dong. In every case, it seems that some become convinced that there is a need for modern centralised church leadership, and they are "it", and they convince others that if you get under the "headship" then blessings will surely follow as growth follows the "latter rain".

Now, we can all look at how absurd this can get as played out on the ground. Witness Lee with his sons, David Yonggi Cho with his, the "One Publication" splits and the Todd Bentleys and Ted Haggards of the NAR and so forth.

But what does the Bible say of Leadership, of Obedience, and so forth? And how are we to interpret what it says, two and even three millennia after it was written? I don't think "Drunken Noah" supersedes the NT command to hold leadership accountable for failures, as the modern Deputy Gods tried to convince us.

But what does Jesus teach and show? And how does it percolate through the Acts and Epistles? How did they interpret OT pictures of Leadership and Submission?

I don't see any one "right answer" as the Deputy Gods try to boil it down. "Witness Lee - even when he's wrong he's right" is not only an oversimplification but it's a deviation. So I don't desire to introduce my own deviation.

But I'll just add my observation. I see the fall of humankind in Genesis 3 and the fall of the angels in Genesis 6 and nothing but a big mess afterward. Yes there is some order (the law) and some promises (the prophets) but basically it's not a good scene. Then this guy comes along, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and what does he do? He takes the last place! He lowers himself and washes the disciples feet! He's basically this homeless, penniless guy out on the streets. Yes he does miracles and yes he has a coterie with money (Judas held the purse) but essentially he lives the "last place" of all, and dies there - the death of a slave.

Philippians 2:7,8 "but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross."

That, my friends, is Leadership. And that is Obedience. Now who can follow that, and elevate themselves above the flock? That was his acts. And his teaching was apace: "If you get invited to the feast, take the least place" Luke 14:8. So his life and teaching was a continuous whole. In this light we can interpret Paul, and the book of Acts, and the epistles. Only in this light. If we take Paul's epistle to the Ephesians, "apostles, prophets and teachers" and use human organisational principles, we get the weird stuff that we see.

Just some observations from along the way.

02-20-2019 01:01 PM

Cal

Re: Layman's Fellowship

Hi Matt! Say hi to your mom for us!

02-20-2019 12:42 PM

Ohio

Re: Layman's Fellowship

Sure is nice to see you again.

02-20-2019 12:13 PM

Matt Anderson

Re: Layman's Fellowship

Hi, you got me.

I setup Laymans Fellowship before I moderated on the Berean's. It has been a slow progression over a longer period of time. Starting in 2012, I felt led to start to search the scriptures and seek the Lord on the subjects of Leadership, Authority, Submission and Obedience. I wasn't anxious to do this because there is no way through these subjects successfully. So, I took the journey one step at a time with the Lord (as best as I know how).

I'm not finished, but I have made some significant steps.

I have received some light and uncovered some things that I have not ever seen addressed before. I am working on preparing something new on the site that I will call your attention to once it is done.

I don't consider the material I have on Laymans Fellowship to be definitive or even fully correct. It is intended more to open dialogue on a complex subject. It's just a different approach to the subjects of Leadership, Authority, Submission & Obedience.

Blessings in Christ to everyone.

Matt

02-18-2019 08:22 AM

Ohio

Re: Layman's Fellowship

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igzy

Name on it is Matt Anderson. Isn't that Jane Anderson's son's name?

http://laymansfellowship.com/introdu...ns-fellowship/

Yes, sure is. Same name, same person.

02-18-2019 08:19 AM

Cal

Re: Layman's Fellowship

Name on it is Matt Anderson. Isn't that Jane Anderson's son's name?

http://laymansfellowship.com/introdu...ns-fellowship/

02-18-2019 08:17 AM

Cal

Re: Layman's Fellowship

"...the darkness is passing and the true Light is already shining." 1 John 2:8

02-17-2019 03:29 PM

aron

Layman's Fellowship

Recently came across a blog called "Layman's Fellowship", by someone who grew up in the Local Church of Witness Lee. It seems to be a work in progress, but what progress made thus far has some interest. Here is a quote I liked.

Quote:

One of the most interesting things about the church (Greek: Ekklessia) is how little is said about how to organize it. Very little is said. A great deal is left open to arriving at very different organizational structures. This might seem to be a very large flaw, but it is not.

The church intentionally has very little prescriptive definition in the Word of God. It was part of the design that God intended.

At it’s minimum, it is just 2 or 3 gathered together in the name of Jesus Christ. At it’s maximum, it is all believers in Jesus Christ throughout time and all around the earth. In between this minimum and maximum, it gets difficult to express much about it that can be controlled by men successfully over time.

Again, I think this is INTENTIONAL.

It leaves the reader with an important question… Why Would God Leave His Church So Under-Defined from an Organizational Perspective?

The basic answer is simple and complex at the same time. The Ekklessia (aka Church) is a spiritual reality which can have intermittent expression in the physical realm at various points in time that are not easily controllable by men.

He also seems to stress the importance of the direct speaking of the Holy Spirit of God. (versus, "Brother Lee said...")

Another quote:

Quote:

I thought and prayed about the name of the newsletter and ended up with “Layman’s Fellowship”. This matched my personal identity. I am not a recognized preacher, pastor, missionary or any other type of credentialed believer in God through Jesus Christ. When asked what denomination or type of christian I am, I have derived the following answer: “There are many flavors of ice cream. I am plain vanilla.” I claim no specific religious affiliation. In fact, I have never been an official member of any local congregation my entire life. I am a regular attendee at a local church. They do not require membership as a pre-condition for full involvement. I am a member in THE body of Christ with full standing because of what Jesus Christ did for me and my repentance and acceptance of Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

Note the use of "local church", not as precursor (I presume) to extra-local affiliation but rather as a generic (non-specific) description of a local body of believers.

http://laymansfellowship.com/

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