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Topic Review (Newest First)
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| Yesterday 10:57 AM | ||
| Unregistered |
Re: To Keep or not to Keep (Teachings) Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump ... (1 Cor. 5:6b-7a (NKJV)) |
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| 05-15-2025 12:56 PM | ||
| ThankfulForever777 |
Re: To Keep or not to Keep (Teachings) It’s been over two years since I left LC, and it’s been a rollercoaster. Yet, each day brings more freedom and clarity. At first, I couldn’t bear to toss out LSM books, hymnals, or RV Bibles. I wouldn’t dare call LC a cult or denomination. But after reading into books on cults, talking with Christian counselors, and studying the Bible on my own, I’m convinced LSM books belong in the trash. That’s what I did, keeping just one RV Bible with footnotes and a couple of books for reference, not personal edification. Their teachings are fundamentally flawed. It's a leaven Jesus and the apostles warned against. Sure, there’s some truth in them, but it’s tainted by human philosophy and demonic teachings. LC exalts its materials above the Bible, much like Mormons do with the Book of Mormon or Jehovah’s Witnesses with Watchtower magazines. Would you keep a book of Mormon or Watchtower magazines on your shelf for spiritual growth or would you through them away? Personally, I wouldn’t hesitate to through them into a trash bin and that’s what I have done with LSM books. |
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| 05-12-2025 09:30 AM | ||
| PeterG |
Re: To Keep or not to Keep (Teachings) Hi Nell, in case this post is directed at me (too): It seems that the dissatisfaction with today’s “church” is nothing new. Should we even call Today's organizations created by men “the church”? Better question is what does GOD call today’s organizations that call themselves churches? Why do we spend so much time looking for the right man to follow? In my opinion, we shouldn't call them church. "Denomination" seems quite appropriate to me. In Galatians 5, Paul uses the terms διχοστασίαι and αἱρέσεις, which are well translated as "divisions" and "sects." Why do we spend so much time looking for the right man to follow? Amen! This is foolish and misleading. What does “lukewarm” look like? A church should conform to the two main characteristics of God himself, his holiness and his love. The one separates us from the world, the other shows by our unity that we follow the gospel. In these two things even a church can become inconsistent, i.e. lukewarm. And what is striking about Laodicea is that it thinks, "I am rich and I have everything." Of all the denominations I know, this fits the "local churches" best. Theoretically, they really did have everything: all the achievements of the fathers and finally even the realization of the local boundries. But then they became just another denomination, and a particularly harmful one at that. Because the enemy wants to block a complete church reformation with every thing he has. Has today’s organized “church” already been “spued” out of his mouth” or is that yet to come? When? The most "lukewarm" state was probably already reached at Constantine. Therefore, I would personally say: Yes, it already is. What’s more important, (1) following the “best” man-made teachings about the church, or (2) having a living and abiding walk with God himself, and learning to follow and obey him? The second. Isn’t that what Jesus meant when he said “I will build my church”? No. It's discipleship. The two things are not identical! I don’t think he meant that we should look to find the best man made organization to follow, but follow him. I agree. But after Jesus, Paul also came along and explained to us that God wants a community that is pleasing to him. Just like in the Old Testament. We must take that seriously. Where has following the teachings of men gotten us? Laodicea? Yes, but not only to that. They also brought us to the Reformation and the many good recovering steps that followed. These were always blessed when they corresponded to the clear biblical evidence and believers no longer accepted that it was being "twisted" (2 Peter 3:16). |
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| 05-12-2025 05:18 AM | ||
| Nell |
Re: To Keep or not to Keep (Teachings) Revelation 3:14-22 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. ... It seems that dissatisfaction with today’s “church” is nothing new. Should we even call today’s organizations created by personal teachings of men “the church”? (The American church.) That is, teachings based on men’s personal interpretation of scripture. Better question is what does GOD call today’s organizations that call themselves churches? Why do we spend so much time looking for the “right” man/teaching to follow…teachers who claim “I’m right because I said I’m right.” If not this, what does “lukewarm” look like? Has today’s organized “church” already been “spued” out of his mouth” or is that yet to come? What’s more important, (1) following the “best” man-made teachings about the church, or (2) having a living and abiding walk with God himself, and learning to follow and obey him? Isn’t that what Jesus meant when he said “I will build my church”? I don’t think he meant that we should look to find the best man-made organization to follow, but follow him. Where has following the teachings of men gotten us? Laodicea? Is the church getting closer to being spued out of his mouth, or has that already happened? Nell |
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| 05-10-2025 12:12 PM | ||
| PeterG |
Re: To Keep or not to Keep (Teachings) Quote:
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| 05-10-2025 10:59 AM | ||
| UntoHim |
Re: To Keep or not to Keep (Teachings) I had the exact same realization in reading Dr. Hsu's first-hand account of her experiences with Watchman Nee and The Shanghai Local Church - So many of the tragic abuses (psychological. spiritual and sexual) were played out in the initial days of the Local Church (aka "Little Flock") through Watchman Nee and many of his followers, long before Witness Lee brought these abuses to much of Asia, and eventually to America. In fact, it is painfully obvious now that much the bad fruit we see in today's Local Church of Witness Lee had their beginnings in the Movement began by Watchman Nee in the earliest years there in mainland China. ~ |
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| 05-10-2025 08:59 AM | ||
| Unregistered |
Re: To Keep or not to Keep (Teachings) Quote:
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| 05-09-2025 01:06 PM | ||
| PeterG |
Re: To Keep or not to Keep (Teachings) Quote:
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| 05-09-2025 12:29 PM | ||
| Sons to Glory! |
Re: To Keep or not to Keep (Teachings) I kept one WL book that spoke to me quite deeply: "The Specialty, Generality & Practicality of the Church Life." In it he basically says we should hold certain core (essential) items of the faith tightly, but other things loosely, when interacting and fellowshipping with other believers and other groups. That principle is sound and Lee certainly wasn't the only one who advocated such an approach. Unfortunately I don't think the ideas in that book were followed very well by the LC - they adopted certain LC doctrines to also be quasi-core essentials of the faith . . . 
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| 05-08-2025 06:14 PM | ||
| Unregistered |
Re: To Keep or not to Keep (Teachings) Have you Read Lily Hsu's book on her life and witness to Nee's pattern? |
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| 05-08-2025 10:22 AM | ||
| PeterG |
Re: To Keep or not to Keep (Teachings) I stand by it: Lee is the bathwater. Nee's teachings on discipleship are still blessing thousands of people outside of LCs all over the world. What a difference to the Lee messages! And this, despite that here in particular are points which deserve to be viewed critically today, such as Nees sharp tripartition of man. I would also add the teaching that God has to break us totally. Concerning the church doctrine, I basically always hear the same 2 arguments. 1) Nee would take the biblical pattern “one city, one church” prescriptively instead of descriptively. 2. He would overemphasize authority and submission. For someone who does not recycle, it is not difficult to show that both arguments stand on feet of clay. Test them all; hold on to what is good. (1 Thessalonians 5:21) |
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| 05-07-2025 07:46 PM | ||
| TLFisher |
Re: To Keep or not to Keep (Teachings) Quote:
When I think of aging ones who likely purchased Life-Studies, Collected Works of Watchman Nee, and Collected Works of Witness Lee on credit, it's destined for recycling. Don't consider it "the baby", but "the bathwater". |
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| 04-04-2025 05:49 PM | ||
| Unregistered |
Re: To Keep or not to Keep (Teachings) Hi! I am very interested in hearing what your experience of a college student meeting ran in the LC way was like. A few students have told me the campus Bible study at NYU (probably Columbia too) is a bit different than in other localities. There aren't any full timers so it's mainly students and a few young working graduates. Everyone reads different versions, half the group is usually church kids so they usually read the recovery version. There isn't any additional LSM material, but when everyone asks questions or shares their enjoyment, some church kid will usually go to the footnotes. I am fairly certain all of the previous elders there have passed away. Do you know who the current elders there are? |
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| 03-29-2025 06:40 PM | ||
| HBJ |
To Keep or not to Keep (Teachings) I remember the early 70s, with many of the wonderful bible based praise songs, the love feasts (potlucks), and people who were genuinely seeking the Lord. But it changed in 72-73 in Philadelphia when we went from "All Christians are welcome" to "Christians need to seek God our way to be overcoming Christians". We got a school bus and took it as a group to another church to perform a service to show them how church was done. Later when I had migrated to NYC, the youth group came to my college and took over the Christian student meeting to run it in the LC way! That was the start of my leaving----what arrogance! I do have an occasional contact in NYC with someone who dearly loves the Lord, and I do pray for leadership there since the bible says leaders will be judged more strictly. But getting back to the topic, I have thrown anything I own that was LC in the garbage. When I pass I don't want anyone to find LC things in my property and then be led astray. It takes decades to build a reputation and it can and has been lost in minutes by WL/LC. The thorns have choked out the good growth. Lord have mercy on me and all still in the LC. |
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