Questions to ask current members?

[Zezima]

Having a large portion of my social group and community still in the Lords Recovery.. I have a strong desire to bring them out of the highly toxic and abusive teachings. I realize that in order to do this, I have to be delicate. The best way I think is to pray, and to ask questions that cause them to critically think on somethings.

What are some good questions to ask current members that could help start their process to leaving?

[drive-by visitor]

What is a teaching that you think Witness Lee got wrong or that you disagree with?

That hits them with cognitive dissonance pretty hard. They either have to say that they don't think he got anything wrong and it gives you a chance to say "well, what about blah blah blah?" Or they have to face the fact that they are scared to even think of disagreeing and you can bring up that not even feeling like you are allowed to disagree is a bad sign of a controlling place. Or they will actually say something legitimate and then you have something to talk about.

[Bible-believer]

What is a teaching that you think Witness Lee got wrong or that you disagree with?

That hits them with cognitive dissonance pretty hard. They either have to say that they don't think he got anything wrong and it gives you a chance to say "well, what about blah blah blah?" Or they have to face the fact that they are scared to even think of disagreeing and you can bring up that not even feeling like you are allowed to disagree is a bad sign of a controlling place. Or they will actually say something legitimate and then you have something to talk about.

I have tried "praying" and "raising questions" but hardly bringing anyone out so far. Lots of training, meetings, small groups, Lee's collection pursuing group, and all those stuff you are acquainted infused into them almost daily, that they lost the ability to think and analyze. Most of them don't even have time to read the Bible itself.
I pray and ask God for the answer to what I shall do. I really wanted to know.

[sophitos]

I too have a lot of connections and family in the LR that I'd like to see them recognize or realize the truth behind the LR. Totally respect that it's a delicate and complex process. So far I've gone about it by showing them I'm still living happily and as best as I am doing, working on my relationship with God, and reading Christian authorship besides Lee/Nee. Less on the questions and more on showing that there's more out there than the LR - there are SO MANY genuine Christians who are pursuing God happily and encouragingly so, outside the LR.

I tried asking some questions with immediate family and it was ROUGH. Kinda awkward by the end of the conversation, and it felt like an intellectual tug-of-war. Lately I've gotten the sense that it is really up to the Lord to have mercy and guide them. Still love them but it's really hard because I dislike conflict. Right now I'm just continuing the process of working thru the cognitive dissonance and go thru life one day at a time.

But maybe you could share and then ask in a more positive way, Zezima. Perhaps sharing a little bit of what you appreciated from a Christian author or some fellowship with a non-LR believer, and then ask, did you know that there's awesome Christians pursuing God out there like (provide example)? They're loving God SO MUCH and sharing the gospel! I tried this with one of my family and it sort of worked.....sort of. Still deeply entrenched in the belief that the LR is the BEST place to be, but agreed with me that there's genuine believers out there too.

Worth a try.

[Nell]

The Bible is a good conversation starter. Here's the best verse, I think, that gives us permission to ask questions, a mandate to ask questions... especially with someone who is taught that asking questions is of the devil.

Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. If you can fact-check Paul, you can fact-check anyone.

Nell

[Ohio]

I too have a lot of connections and family in the LR that I'd like to see them recognize or realize the truth behind the LR. Totally respect that it's a delicate and complex process. So far I've gone about it by showing them I'm still living happily and as best as I am doing, working on my relationship with God, and reading Christian authorship besides Lee/Nee. Less on the questions and more on showing that there's more out there than the LR - there are SO MANY genuine Christians who are pursuing God happily and encouragingly so, outside the LR.

I tried asking some questions with immediate family and it was ROUGH. Kinda awkward by the end of the conversation, and it felt like an intellectual tug-of-war. Lately I've gotten the sense that it is really up to the Lord to have mercy and guide them. Still love them but it's really hard because I dislike conflict. Right now I'm just continuing the process of working thru the cognitive dissonance and go thru life one day at a time.

But maybe you could share and then ask in a more positive way, Zezima. Perhaps sharing a little bit of what you appreciated from a Christian author or some fellowship with a non-LR believer, and then ask, did you know that there's awesome Christians pursuing God out there like (provide example)? They're loving God SO MUCH and sharing the gospel! I tried this with one of my family and it sort of worked.....sort of. Still deeply entrenched in the belief that the LR is the BEST place to be, but agreed with me that there's genuine believers out there too.

Worth a try.

Great points. Unless loved ones have some troubling in their hearts already, it’s hard to use the Bible or even common sense to persuade them.

It’s similar to my upbringing in the Catholic Church. We would complain about lots of things about the church, until some outsider would criticize, and then we would all defend it.

[countmeworthy]

It’s similar to my upbringing in the Catholic Church. We would complain about lots of things about the church, until some outsider would criticize, and then we would all defend it.

Isn’t that the TRUTH! I suspect many LCrs have questions, doubts and may not even believe a lot of the things done and said BUT until the Holy Spirit leads them out Himself, they are like the Catholics we once were. It would also help if family and or close LC friends feel the same way, it will make it easier to leave because of the strong support system.

Think of Leah Remini who was in Scientology since she was 9. Because of her strong family connections, at some point they all discussed the control Scientology had on them. They trusted one another and thus they got out as a family with Leah leading the charge.

TRUST and Genuine LOVE is very important in “deprogramming” people.

[countmeworthy]

I have tried "praying" and "raising questions" but hardly bringing anyone out so far. Lots of training, meetings, small groups, Lee's collection pursuing group, and all those stuff you are acquainted infused into them almost daily, that they lost the ability to think and analyze. Most of them don't even have time to read the Bible itself.
I pray and ask God for the answer to what I shall do. I really wanted to know.

You might try by saying something good about Nee’s and Lee’s teachings. But also find something they might not like or not understand.

(I don’t know about you, but I truly got saved in the LC. In my day there, I learned to pray to Jesus, I learned something about the power of the Blood of Jesus. I learned something of the meaning of repentance).

Whatever good comes to mind, start with that then give them food for thought.

I have not been to a meeting or had any conversation with an LC member in umpteen years. So I don’t know what they actually talk about fellowship wise.

Do they spend most of their time talking about Lee, like the Mormons talk about Joseph Smith? If they do, point them back to Jesus. I have former Mormon friends who were “up there” but they told me they rarely ever heard them talk about Jesus. It was all about Joseph Smith.

Here is something I say to my Catholic friends (and I have lots of them! I am in S Texas and much of the Culture of Mexican descent is Catholic):

“While I am thankful I grew up believing in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit as well as the basic fundamental truths, I don’t pray the rosary, to Mary, to the saints. The “Hail Mary” prayer was merely a greeting from Gabriel to Mary in Luke 1:28-30. He was not praying to her.”

It’s just food for thought.

The LORD knows that when we finally arrive, there will be no LSM, no LC, no Catholics, no Baptists. Etc….

May the Holy Spirit give you the Wisdom and anointing to reach your loved ones.

[Bible-believer]

You might try by saying something good about Nee’s and Lee’s teachings. But also find something they might not like or not understand.

(I don’t know about you, but I truly got saved in the LC. In my day there, I learned to pray to Jesus, I learned something about the power of the Blood of Jesus. I learned something of the meaning of repentance).

Whatever good comes to mind, start with that then give them food for thought.

I have not been to a meeting or had any conversation with an LC member in umpteen years. So I don’t know what they actually talk about fellowship wise.

Do they spend most of their time talking about Lee, like the Mormons talk about Joseph Smith? If they do, point them back to Jesus. I have former Mormon friends who were “up there” but they told me they rarely ever heard them talk about Jesus. It was all about Joseph Smith.

Here is something I say to my Catholic friends (and I have lots of them! I am in S Texas and much of the Culture of Mexican descent is Catholic):

“While I am thankful I grew up believing in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit as well as the basic fundamental truths, I don’t pray the rosary, to Mary, to the saints. The “Hail Mary” prayer was merely a greeting from Gabriel to Mary in Luke 1:28-30. He was not praying to her.”

It’s just food for thought.

The LORD knows that when we finally arrive, there will be no LSM, no LC, no Catholics, no Baptists. Etc….

May the Holy Spirit give you the Wisdom and anointing to reach your loved ones.
Thank you.

You probably heard of the Stockholm syndrome. I feel most members in LR have it due to a long stay in the group. They defend Lee himself and his teachings instinctively, even after Lee's gone some many years. When you repeat Lee's teachings or praise Lee, they respond with Amen. Yet when you raise questions or doubt, all that kind of cliche pop out toward you to exercise the spirit. I, somehow, give up being the "negative stimulus."
But when some saints say to me privately that they want to hear more regarding the truth, I sit with them reading the Bible, comparing the verses, knowing what the Bible says.
A brother in this forum said once, "Keep sowing, and must be one day they germinate."

[Ohio]

But when some saints say to me privately that they want to hear more regarding the truth, I sit with them reading the Bible, comparing the verses, knowing what the Bible says.

A brother in this forum said once, "Keep sowing, and must be one day they germinate."
Great points. Reminds me of Paul’s word to Timothy, “in meekness instructing those who oppose, if perhaps God may give them repentance to know of the truth.” 2 Tim 2.25

[Paul Vusik]

Having a large portion of my social group and community still in the Lords Recovery.. I have a strong desire to bring them out of the highly toxic and abusive teachings. I realize that in order to do this, I have to be delicate. The best way I think is to pray, and to ask questions that cause them to critically think on somethings.

What are some good questions to ask current members that could help start their process to leaving?

Zezima,

The biggest thing that everyone will ever deal with, when it comes to trying to minister to the people in LC, is the fact that at some point of their lives the line of demarcation that exist in most people, which differentiates and separates an individual from their beliefs, HAS BEEN DESTROYED! (I’ll say purposely, by the man that run this scam) Meaning, that when you even approach anything, speak or ask anything, it will be viewed for the most part as a personal attack on the individual, rather than what they believe/teach. It is intertwined, inseparable. I dealt with this personally for a very long time, until I realized what’s happening. It’s emotional attachment, that’s very difficult to penetrate.

In my own attempts to deliver some basic things to the people that are very close to me, I noticed that although they will vehemently disagree and even “bind you”, and say that “you are of the satan”, “how can you attack the “church””, “you not in your spirit”, “We don’t believe the same God”, “show me your “corporate Body”, and what not, and all other Jambalaya that everyone here knows and heard. But if you let them clearly know that, “this is not a personal attack on you, or anything that I have to tell you, is not about you as an individual” prior to saying or questioning what they believe, I have been able to share some things. Beyond that, it is not up to me to lead anyone out, or try to pry them away from what they love. I don’t think that having anyone trusting me, about what I have to say is a Biblical way, they already trusted a man once, so don’t be the next one in line. It’s only when a person decides that they can stand on their own two feet, fend for themselves trusting God to take full care of them, trust the Word alone, then they will able to hear and listen to anything and have a discernment to know what is true or false. It’s very difficult approach, but it’s the only way that the person will be able to cut all ties, because God will cut them and not you or I. Loving them unconditionally, even if they hate you for what you saying is also a great tool in everyone’s toolbox.


One more thing: when I was going through my own process of getting out, there was never any person that told me that I was in the wrong place. I didn’t read anything or even had anyone invested or helping me in any way. One thing I did, is eliminate for 30 days (that was my plan), all books, all sermons, all messages, all meetings, all footnotes, morning revivals (I eliminated them about 4-5yrs in), everything! I found a Bible, verse by verse, studying and praying to God, “ I know I’m doing something, and following something that’s not right in my heart and in my spirit. I trust that your Word is living and able to lead anyone to the correct path! I put my trust in You, fully, and You lead me there. Illuminate your Word to me, and show me where I’m wrong”. It took a month of daily time, and those 30 days are still running to this day, because it’s a beautiful thing.
Although now, I can pick up any book or start listening a sermon, and I would be able to say in the few minutes whether I want to keep reading or listening it, due to its content. God will take care of a trusting person, anyone who believes in Him! He will send the correct people, information, songs of encouragement, everything! Fear of unknown is what keeps people chained! Read Hebrews chapter 11, which is a great encouragement to trusting God!
Don’t want to get off the subject matter of the thread, so may God give you the wisdom and the way forward. I have my beautiful wife and kids, who are still in LC, so I know the exact feeling or experience you have on the daily basis.
God bless!
Thanks

[zeek]

Having a large portion of my social group and community still in the Lords Recovery.. I have a strong desire to bring them out of the highly toxic and abusive teachings. I realize that in order to do this, I have to be delicate. The best way I think is to pray, and to ask questions that cause them to critically think on somethings.

What are some good questions to ask current members that could help start their process to leaving?
Hi Zezima,
Why not just be yourself. When you were "in the Lord's Recovery" weren't you always being exhorted to bring new people in? Weren't you were taught to be delicate about it? (Some might say "sneaky"). Weren't you were taught to pray that they would come in? Didn't you pray that they would come in at the prayer meetings?

Now questions that evoke "critical thinking" that's going to be tough. They're gonna figure out what you're trying to do immediately. They're not stupid are they?

The whole idea of moving people in or out is illusory. They're not really in anything. They just think they are.

It's like an imaginary fence and they're inside it. What better can you do for them then to not believe in the fence that separates them from you? There is no fence! There's nothing between them and you but imaginary barriers.

If people stop believing in the Lord's Recovery, it will cease to exist.