Who’s really causing the division?

[Zezima]

The Lords recovery often makes the claim that they, and they alone are the true church in practice. They often claim that those outside their walls (other Christian groups) are in division.

While I’ve only recently in the last 3 years left the Lords Recovery…I’ve noticed that in “Christianity” the division I was warned of doesn’t match my experience. I’ve been to a handful of various denominations & non-denominational churches. None of them have ever claimed to be the only true church, none of them have spoken down on other denominations or churches, and none of them condemn those who leave.

I’ve come to realize that claiming all others but yourself are divisive, is in fact extremely divisive.

I recently hosted someone who meets in the LR, and was telling me about their travels. This person spoke about a state they visited, then said that it’s crazy there is no church there. Of course this word “church” means LR church.. I was in awe. This is a common thought in the LR, that no other churches exist outside of theirs.

If the division that the Lords recovery claims exists everywhere in Christianity doesn’t exists, who’s actually being divisive?

Do you think that Christianity is divisive?

[LeftLR]

What I have been heard from family members who with LSM / LC as their daily reading message or one of major conferences:

"Those who call themself as Christian and not in Lord's Recovery, they are the Enemy of Jesus Christ and Lord's Recovery."


I am not with LSM / LC at all. But few family members has been poisoned by the false teaching of LSM / LC.

They only read witness lee's writing / messages as their primary source what they call "The Highest Truth and only real message of Jesus Christ."

[aron]

I was visiting some old LSM-affiliated friends once, after leaving the LR. I was now living in another state. After the meeting, and some small talk, my acquaintance, after hearing my new physical location, asked skeptically, "Are there any saints there?" I instantly said, "Yes, thousands of them." He shifted uncomfortably, and said, "You know what I mean". I stared right at him and said, "No, I don't."

At that point I'd not been on any internet chat rooms or discussion boards, knew nothing of Daystar or Philip Lee. I was still "positive" but had become tired of meeting with the same few people week after week, going over the same footnotes, telling ourselves we had the high peak. Something fundamental was missing. Always talking about Elden Hall but the Spirit of Elden Hall was long gone.

So I went back to "Fallen Christianity". I still thought God's Economy of Witness Lee was the best teaching, still thought that they had - in some fashion - the fabled "Ground", but there were Christians around us! Why not greet all the believers in Christ? (Phil 4:21, 1 Thess 5:26). Why only greet the few who read the same books as you? The "Way of the Chosen Few" turned out to be very isolated, very insular, very lonely, very dry.

Even then, I knew something was off. But I kept circling back, because they were my friends. Then one day, I went to a meeting and someone said, "Titus Chu rebelled" and I went on the internet and that's when the chains started to fall.

They only read witness lee's writing / messages as their primary source what they call "The Highest Truth and only real message of Jesus Christ."I don't doubt the fire-breathers in the pews say stuff like this. The house organ has to be careful because if they say this too plainly, then the lines between the Collected Works of Witness Lee and the Book of Mormon start to get blurry. The old "c" word starts to circle around. So they speak carefully of their Christian bona fides. But probably they do everything in their power to make the rank-and-file think like what you wrote. Jesus is no longer the Way. Now it's the Processed God, the Central Lane of the Divine Economy, the Interpreted Word, or whatever it is they're selling this week.

[OBW]

I recently hosted someone who meets in the LR, and was telling me about their travels. This person spoke about a state they visited, then said that it’s crazy there is no church there. Of course this word “church” means LR church.. I was in awe. This is a common thought in the LR, that no other churches exist outside of theirs.In my early participation in Facebook, I noted that the post of someone who is in the LRC spoke of the recent "taking the ground" in Rome. Their comment was something like "after many centuries, the church is once again present in Rome."

Now on Facebook, I generally allow the random LRCisms to go uncommented because I do not want their rubbish repeated to my non-LRC friends. But that one deserved much derision. At this point, I cannot remember whether I actually posted anything, but I should have mentioned the audacity to claim that there has been no church in Rome for the past many centuries. At some level, the sins of the RCC leadership has been little different than that of the leadership of the LRC, and they are certain that the LRC is the only true church in existence. Seems that the LRC did not fall far from the RCC vine.

[Paul Vusik]

I have been looking for this quote or better to say tirade, that I heard about 10 years ago, and only found a snippet of it. (If someone has the full audio of this, please post it here for the record). This quote below from Mr. Ron Kangas, describes what LC is, and exactly what it stands for to the tee. Although majority of the people will never publicly admit this, and say otherwise, the truth of the matter is that all of their teachings are based on these principles from both man that invented this thing. I could not attach the audio file to this post on this forum, since it’s saved on my computer. If someone has the full audio of this as an online link for people to hear the actual audio, please attach it for the records.

“The history of the Lords Recovery, is the history of coming out of, and being outside of the present evil age. According to Gal 1:4, there is a present evil age, the context of this book demonstrates that evil age was Judaism. For us today in principle, CHRISTIANITY IS THE PRESENT EVIL AGE! Today, we need to be delivered from Christianity, the religious age in our time. Let’s not tell Christianity, “you need to be delivered from Christianity”, we need to be delivered from Christianity!!! We really don’t need to follow Christianity’s way, of Christian rock, we don’t have to follow the Calvary Chapels Saturday night concert approach to evangelism, we don’t need to focus on the family, we don’t need to advocate a prison ministry, a homeless ministry. We need to be delivered, subjectively, from the influence of Christianity in our being, it got into our blood. So we need to be rescued from any remains of the pernicious influence of the religious Christianity, the inward effects of Christianity on our beings. We need a radical rescue intrinsically from Christianity, let’s get detoxified, we need to be detoxified from Christianity, and just have a pure life of the triune God flowing in our beings.
There should be no bridge between the local churches and Christianity. What do we have to be ashamed of? We are meeting on the ground of the oneness of the body of Christ, just like was practiced in the New Testament! What church do you go to? “The”, “The Church”!!! We should be what we are, be what we are, we are the recovery! We need to maintain the gap, between us and Christianity. The wider this gap is, the better, because it is a gap between us and the present evil age. The level of the truth in recovery, makes us unique. We are unique concerning all inclusive Christ.......”
Ron Kangas.

Four item that one could gather from this tirade:

1. We have the and all inclusive Christ, and we are “THE CHURCH” and Christianity doesn’t, and isn’t! - He pretty much makes my point that I made in another thread that they preach different Jesus. (There is also another of his tirades about how Christianity doesn’t have a spirit and don’t know about the spirit on YouTube, I listened to it a while back, and didn’t save the link. If someone knows and heard that audio, please attach. I will try to attach that audio file here this weekend, or as soon as I find it)
2. “We don’t need to focus on the family“ - what a vomit! Please go talk to all the ex church kids or even current members kids who have been destroyed by this scam (they probably will never admit it, until they are gone), and ask them on what they think of it. Quote from “the man” the other day, should speak volumes why this thing is a man made fraud. By the way Ron, Bible says “For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?”, but hey, that’s Bible here, and “it’s not about the truth, it’s about life, so that won’t fit into anything that you believe is of “life”. One day I’ll say a lot more on this matter.
3. “We don’t need to follow the Calvary Chapels evangelizing approach” - Great Sir, but I don’t think that you have any approach to evangelize the people other than that of recruiting operations, AKA the “mormon method”. We better check if they are buying into the visions before they’re accepted to the “exclusive club”. I was there for almost 12 years, not a single Sunday was spent on preaching the gospel that saves!
4. “We don’t need to advocate the prison and homeless ministry” - that’s precisely something that the Jesus of recovery would teach. “Forget about the needy and afflicted! Forget about those poor and the bums on the street! Those people in prison, deserve everything they got, so who cares! Go after the the young, healthy, intelligent, with much better future earnings potential! Go after children and women, most vulnerable of our society! That’s the recovery way, we are in the truth, hallelujah “ We can’t help those people in prison or on the street anyway, so why bother.


Christianity has been under attack for almost 2000 years, and although there are major issues within Christianity, it’s not because of the regular people that just getting fed this kind of ideology, it’s because of the so called “ministry’s”, and people like this who are only about themselves and their own fraudulent scams!
One should also note that for whatever reason, he chose to single out Christians, and not like Buddhist, Mormons, Christian Science, New age, Prosperity cults etc. Maybe that’s his counterparts, and some lost parts of the tribe.

Well in conclusion I say this;
I thank God today that He has taken me out of this deception, detoxified me from these plague teachings, and there is nothing and I mean nothing that they can offer me that will be equal to what Real Christ is and His unconditional love and care is. His true care for the sinners “as Paul said, from whom I am a chief”, the burden, the afflicted, the downright lowest parts of our society. The uneducated, untrained, with nothing to offer! People who are of no use to the scams of this nature, but to Him, are the sons and the daughters of a Living God!

God bless.
Paul.

[Paul Vusik]

I wanted to add a testimony of a man, which I know is not from recovery. However, it’s from the man from PBCC or also know as a Plymouth Bretheren, which has quite of few ties to recovery. I wish a lot more people would do this kind of videos and appeals to these movements and scams, even if it’s just for the record.

I know there are a lot of people who are in the same boat as this man, and have been threated the same way. Church kids? Parents that lost their kids to this? You can read their testimonies here and elsewhere. I wish God would lead more people to expose the atrocities that exist in all of these scams, so that the people are able to see and be their normal, human, God loving, unconditionally loving their neighbor (which is in most cases your family to start with) once and for all.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HValhXr52Lc

[Ohio]

I wanted to add a testimony of a man, which I know is not from recovery. However, it’s from the man from PBCC or also know as a Plymouth Bretheren, which has quite of few ties to recovery. I wish a lot more people would do this kind of videos and appeals to these movements and scams, even if it’s just for the record.

Back before the Great Midwest Quarantine, I read a lot about the Brethren, past and present, focusing on their first split in the 1840's. After that I began for the first time to understand the Recovery.

Coming from Ohio, with the largest population of Amish, I have become familiar with them too. Eventually I was able to see numerous similarities between the Pharisees of old, those in Laodicea, the Amish, the Exclusive Brethren, and the Recovery. They are all on the same path. Some are just further along.

[Zezima]

Back before the Great Midwest Quarantine, I read a lot about the Brethren, past and present, focusing on their first split in the 1840's. After that I began for the first time to understand the Recovery.

Coming from Ohio, with the largest population of Amish, I have become familiar with them too. Eventually I was able to see numerous similarities between the Pharisees of old, those in Laodicea, the Amish, the Exclusive Brethren, and the Recovery. They are all on the same path. Some are just further along.

Can you elaborate on this? What path.

[Paul Vusik]

Back before the Great Midwest Quarantine, I read a lot about the Brethren, past and present, focusing on their first split in the 1840's. After that I began for the first time to understand the Recovery.

Coming from Ohio, with the largest population of Amish, I have become familiar with them too. Eventually I was able to see numerous similarities between the Pharisees of old, those in Laodicea, the Amish, the Exclusive Brethren, and the Recovery. They are all on the same path. Some are just further along.

I totally agree with you sir, if only people would spent time studying and understanding that this whole thing is not what they claim it is, and is just a splinter chapter of the broken system of man. I’ll attach a link from the same man that I posted above, were he somewhat explains the origins of these movements. He does go of the rails a few times (self admitting), so if one can get through the the video, you will understand the basic principles that existed then, and what is built in TLR.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gLvj_FiXXOc

As noted in the video, and can be found elsewhere, the “system of man”, also know as the “MOTA” in TLR, is still exist today, and therefore being enforced according to the current leadership. After doing quite a bit of research and studying of the history, I can clearly state that the idea in itself, was not original, or some form of recovery. It was stolen from the Eastern Orthodox Church, which to this day practices and keeps the “ecumenical patriarch order”, since the split between them and catholic leaders around 1000 a.d., and has a lineage of their patriarchy going back to 200 a.d. They claim that they are the only church in existence, that has apostolic authority above all. There are other groups that came out of those fractures in 1800 Brethren's, like the New Apostolic Church, Mormons, even a lot of the Pentecost groups have origins to the 1800. So, it’s not really recovery, it’s more like parroting of the big brother syndrome, wrapped under the guise of separation and exclusiveness.

I grew up around the Eastern Orthodox Church when I was a kid, so I have some familiarity with what they teach.

[Ohio]

Can you elaborate on this? What path.

Pride, arrogance, elitism, exclusivism, legalism, use of fear and shaming to manipulate members, using excommunication / shunning / quarantine to expel non-compliant members and perceived rivals, building walls between insiders and outsiders, elevating man as some supposed vicar of Christ whether called the high priest, the pope, the Oracle, the MOTA, the bishop, etc.

[Ohio]

I grew up around the Eastern Orthodox Church when I was a kid, so I have some familiarity with what they teach.

And I grew up in the Catholic Church. I view them both as empty shells, with little reality within, filled with traditions and liturgies and deceitful systems rather than Jesus Himself.

But on the positive side, they do provide continuity of truth for successive generations. They do guard the scripture and the truth about Jesus. Admittedly it does take a miracle to break thru their shell, and find the real Jesus. As a young kid I did believe the Bible was the word of God, and Jesus was the Son of God who died on the cross, yet my heart was dark and sinful without God. I was named after a Franciscan monk, yet never once heard the gospel from him or anyone else in that church.