Lee's Biggest Injustice

[OGOP]

Obviously Lee was right on some of his Biblical interpretations, and wrong on so many other others. That being said... Lee's biggest injustice to his followers, in my opinion, is his denial of Christmas and Easter. These holidays are beautiful and are Christianity at their best. Celebrating the Lord's birth. Remembering his suffering and celebrating his resurrection.

Truly sad and depressing to think of all the misled Christians in the Lords Recovery who don't get to partake in these beautiful times of the year.

WL: "Another example is Christmas. Christmas is a blasphemy to Christ, and no Christian with a pure conscience should have anything to do with it. As the book, The Two Babylons, proves, Christmas originated from European paganism. Centuries before the Christian era, on December 25 the European pagans celebrated the birthday of the sun. When Constantine embraced Christianity, he encouraged the Roman citizens to become Christians, and he even rewarded many thousands for being baptized. Thousands who knew nothing of Christ were baptized and came into Christendom, bringing their pagan customs with them. Later, the name of Christ was attached to the birth of the sun god celebrated on December 25. In principle, the celebration of Easter is the same. Although some Christians in Orange County condemn us as heretical, they themselves still practice the pagan festival of Christmas. To be sure, during the three and a half years of the great tribulation all Christians will abandon such things as Christmas, Easter, the worship of Mary, and all paganism. ...I strongly believe that the Lord is using His recovery to produce the living firstfruit. This is the first function of the Lord’s recovery. After the rapture of the firstfruit, the local churches will be used by the Lord to help all the remaining Christians. This will be the second function of the recovery. During the great tribulation, Christians will have a proper place to which they can go. Christmas, Easter, and all the traditional things of Christianity will be discarded."

[kumbaya]

Thanks for posting. I find this really disturbing. I'm sure many of you know, but I feel to point out that a lot of non-Christian cults and even extreme Christian sects tend to preach along the same lines. Christmas and Easter are generally a time spent with family and friends. Right now, there are junior high and high school conferences going on the local churches, on Easter weekend. They can use the excuse that the winter trainings over Christmas are just held then bc people tend to be off work- but what about Easter weekend? I don't believe many people are off work for Easter. The passive aggressiveness is just so blatant.

Cults and unbalanced groups tend to break families apart-it's a common theme and tragic. I truly don't believe Jesus cares. If you think he does, fine! I don't think it's right to push your life choices on other people and create a shameful stigma for people who do choose to celebrate!

[Ohio]

I find Christmas and Easter to be a "shell" for the reality. Admittedly they are only visible and outward, but so is the Passover celebration to Israel. The Passover was established in the O.T. as an eternal memorial for all Israel, yet whether or not an Israelite actually believed in his heart was another matter.

Witness Lee's greatest hypocrisy was condemning Western Christian holy days like Christmas and Easter, and then using Chinese New Year to preach the gospel to the Chinese people. Was not CNY also pagan, filled with serpents and dragons? Yet Lee "recovered" it for the gospel.

Is this not what genuine Christians and churches have also done every year with Christmas and Easter? They celebrate Christ, His birth and His Resurrection. They "recover" Christmas and Easter.

Lee did't care that most Chinese celebrated pagan traditions on their CNY day, so why should we care that most Western people celebrate their party traditions? And they wonder why the LC's no longer look like America, but rather Taiwan.

[kumbaya]

I find Christmas and Easter to be a "shell" for the reality. Admittedly they are only visible and outward, but so is the Passover celebration to Israel. The Passover was established in the O.T. as an eternal memorial for all Israel, yet whether or not an Israelite actually believed in his heart was another matter.

Witness Lee's greatest hypocrisy was condemning Western Christian holy days like Christmas and Easter, and then using Chinese New Year to preach the gospel to the Chinese people. Was not CNY also pagan, filled with serpents and dragons? Yet Lee "recovered" it for the gospel.

Is this not what genuine Christians and churches have also done every year with Christmas and Easter? They celebrate Christ, His birth and His Resurrection. They "recover" Christmas and Easter.

Lee did't care that most Chinese celebrated pagan traditions on their CNY day, so why should we care that most Western people celebrate their party traditions? And they wonder why the LC's no longer look like America, but rather Taiwan.

I didn’t realize they did that! Was this a practice in Taiwan or the US too? It’s hypocritical, I just don’t remember seeing that.

Regardless, Christians are celebrating the birth and resurrection of Christ. Whatever it was in cultures centuries ago- it’s not anymore.

I also don’t like the last few sentences of the excerpt that compare celebrating Christmas/Easter with the worship of Mary/paganism-clearly demonizing the first two by sticking them with the latter.

Also, during the Great tribulation- he’s right, people might not celebrate those as much but I’m guessing it won’t be because everyone realizes that the local churches had it right all along and everyone just drops their meeting places/relationships in their churches and come running! This idea is so offensive and arrogant to other believers.

[kumbaya]

WL: "Another example is Christmas. Christmas is a blasphemy to Christ, and no Christian with a pure conscience should have anything to do with it. As OGOP, where is this quote from?

[OGOP]

https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?xid=2GCCHNC2GUP7L

"LIFE-STUDY OF REVELATION: MESSAGE FIFTY-ONE"

[kumbaya]

https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?xid=2GCCHNC2GUP7L

"LIFE-STUDY OF REVELATION: MESSAGE FIFTY-ONE"

Thank you!!

[Evangelical]

Obviously Lee was right on some of his Biblical interpretations, and wrong on so many other others. That being said... Lee's biggest injustice to his followers, in my opinion, is his denial of Christmas and Easter. These holidays are beautiful and are Christianity at their best. Celebrating the Lord's birth. Remembering his suffering and celebrating his resurrection.

I thought every sunday is meant to celebrate the Lords death and resurrection? So why we need easter actually, except to remind people that go to church once a year that they should go to church?

The days that once a year hypocrites go to church sounds like a great time for real Christians to avoid.

[Ohio]

I thought every sunday is meant to celebrate the Lords death and resurrection? So why we need easter actually, except to remind people that go to church once a year that they should go to church?

The days that once a year hypocrites go to church sounds like a great time for real Christians to avoid.
And why are they hypocrites?

When the Shepherd left the 99 and found the one lost sheep, He condemned that one for being a hypocrite? Really?

The prodigal had not been to church in years, but as soon as he walked in the door, the whole church screamed "hypocrite?" Really?

Thank God our Savior does not have such a critical heart!

[A little brother]

I thought every sunday is meant to celebrate the Lords death and resurrection? So why we need easter actually, except to remind people that go to church once a year that they should go to church?

The days that once a year hypocrites go to church sounds like a great time for real Christians to avoid.

Why not carry this one step further...

I thought every day is meant to celebrate the Lords death and resurrection? So why we need Sunday actually, except to remind people that go to church once a week that they should go to church?

The days that once a week hypocrites go to church sounds like a great time for real Christians to avoid.

You have missed the point here. If you have paid attention to the recent Winter training on Leviticus, you should have noticed that on top of daily regular burnt offerings, there are also special days (sabbath, beginning of month, feasts, ...) for additional burnt offerings.

If we can celebrate the Lord's resurrection on the "Day of the Sun", why can't we celebrate Jesus' birth on Christmas? Should our remembrance of the Lord be put aside to make way for pagan practices?

[kumbaya]

I thought every sunday is meant to celebrate the Lords death and resurrection? So why we need easter actually, except to remind people that go to church once a year that they should go to church?

The days that once a year hypocrites go to church sounds like a great time for real Christians to avoid.

The argument wasn’t that you shouldn’t celebrate Christs birth/resurrection every Sunday- or everyday for that matter. The problem is how WL “banned” these holidays by creating such a shameful stigma around them.

[Nell]

And why are they hypocrites?

When the Shepherd left the 99 and found the one lost sheep, He condemned that one for being a hypocrite? Really?

The prodigal had not been to church in years, but as soon as he walked in the door, the whole church screamed "hypocrite?" Really?

Thank God our Savior does not have such a critical heart!

It appears that Paul and Timothy agree with you:

Philippians 1
15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

[Evangelical]

Why not carry this one step further...

I thought every day is meant to celebrate the Lords death and resurrection? So why we need Sunday actually, except to remind people that go to church once a week that they should go to church?

The days that once a week hypocrites go to church sounds like a great time for real Christians to avoid.

You have missed the point here. If you have paid attention to the recent Winter training on Leviticus, you should have noticed that on top of daily regular burnt offerings, there are also special days (sabbath, beginning of month, feasts, ...) for additional burnt offerings.

If we can celebrate the Lord's resurrection on the "Day of the Sun", why can't we celebrate Jesus' birth on Christmas? Should our remembrance of the Lord be put aside to make way for pagan practices?


I disagree that every day is to celebrate the resurrection... The early church met on the first day of the week..the Lord's day. Weekly meetings are from the scripture. So you try to sound smart but your reasoning is foolish.

Most Christians defend easter and Christmas as being some kind of special day and celebrate without the pagan stuff. But consider that the choice of date itself is pagan and no Christians seem to bother to celebrate on the actual dates of Christs death and birth.

How would a wife or husband feel if we celebrated their birthday on the date of another woman or man? "Sorry honey...i won't celebrate your birthday on your actual birthday but on my ex girlfriends birthday because i dont want to give that up".
Paganism is like the ex girlfriend that the wife is reminded of every birthday that her husband doesnt want to forget.

If we celebrate Christian things on pagan days should we also celebrate easter and christmas on holy days of other religions? Suppose a muslim family in Iraq is converted..so now we celebrate Jesus birth on the day of Eid? If the europeans were muslim and not pagan then youd be celebrating Jesuss birth on a muslim holy day now wouldnt you?

[Ohio]

I disagree that every day is to celebrate the resurrection... The early church met on the first day of the week..the Lord's day. Weekly meetings are from the scripture. So you try to sound smart but your reasoning is foolish.

Most Christians defend easter and Christmas as being some kind of special day and celebrate without the pagan stuff. But consider that the choice of date itself is pagan and no Christians seem to bother to celebrate on the actual dates of Christs death and birth.

How would a wife or husband feel if we celebrated their birthday on the date of another woman or man? "Sorry honey...i won't celebrate your birthday on your actual birthday but on my ex girlfriends birthday because i dont want to give that up".
Paganism is like the ex girlfriend that the wife is reminded of every birthday that her husband doesnt want to forget.

If we celebrate Christian things on pagan days should we also celebrate easter and christmas on holy days of other religions? Suppose a muslim family in Iraq is converted..so now we celebrate Jesus birth on the day of Eid? If the europeans were muslim and not pagan then youd be celebrating Jesuss birth on a muslim holy day now wouldnt you?
You were right about "foolish reasoning." :rollingeyesfrown:

[Evangelical]

Dec 25 was chosen as the day to celebrate Christs birth because it happens to be the day pagans celebrated the birthday of the Sun. Now suppose that it was not european but middle eastern paganism that Christianity "replaced". Then the date of Christmas would be 20 November which is Mohammeds birthday.

With Easter an interesting fact is that unlike Christmas the date changes each year. This is because the date coincides with the phases of the moon which comes from paganism.

Little children are taught that Easter Sunday is when Christ died but the date changes each year because of the moon. Instead of fixing a date which can be deduced from scripture as sometime in April the early Christians decided to go with pagan moon cycles.

[Evangelical]

And why are they hypocrites?

When the Shepherd left the 99 and found the one lost sheep, He condemned that one for being a hypocrite? Really?

The prodigal had not been to church in years, but as soon as he walked in the door, the whole church screamed "hypocrite?" Really?

Thank God our Savior does not have such a critical heart!

Seems to me that the shepherd/pastor went out of the church to find the lost. Not wait for them to show up once a year.

They would be like the prodigal son visiting his father once a year for his birthday but then going back to the worldly ways.
Those who come to church once a year every year are surely the repentant converts aren't they? They are so faithful to come once a year every year you can just tell they are so genuine. And the pastors get so excited too they put out extra chairs and wish them well until the next years Easter. They keep God happy I'm sure as they do their yearly service and function in their spiritual giftings once a year.

I guess the anointed easter eggs that the stores sell really work!

[Ohio]

I didn’t realize they did that! Was this a practice in Taiwan or the US too? It’s hypocritical, I just don’t remember seeing that.

One of LSM's seven annual "Feasts" occurs on Chinese New Year, a pagan atheistic, ancient celebration of serpents, dragons, and moonpies.

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Since WL was the MOTA, only he gets to decide which holidays will get "recovered."

[Evangelical]

One of LSM's seven annual "Feasts" occurs on Chinese New Year, a pagan atheistic, ancient celebration
Since WL was the MOTA, only he gets to decide which holidays will get "recovered."

There is no comparison or hypocrisy. For example, there are no chocolate dragons or tales about the chocolate dragon representing "new birth" in Jesus. Easter on the other hand...it was decided that pagan symbols should represent spiritual truths..a little chocolate egg that represents Jesus given to all at the end of a church service. They are typically anointed with prayer by the chocolate manufacturers to guarantee that the church goers will come again next year. They might be laid by the dragon/devil himself as only a deceiver inverting the Gods laws of nature could convince children that bunny rabbits lay eggs.

[Drake]

Evangelical,

You might be wrong in your assessment. Have you read this recently discovered ancient manuscript found in a rabbit hole near the eastern gate of the Temple Mount?

“Hear ye! Hear ye! All Christians and citizens of Jerusalem, who don’t actually want to stone us, are cordially invited to enjoin in a brand new celebration we are launching to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus.

Festivities will be held at the Eastern Gate of the Temple Mount, or the gate called Beautiful because with all the pretty colored eggs awaiting there for us it really will be beautiful! Commencing at sunrise the Apostle Peter will kick off the event by finding the first egg followed by the eleven each finding a colored egg in their own turn. The acapella “Mary Mary Mary Mary Quartet” will bless us with inspirational canticles during this time. This will be followed by the main event were everyone will enjoy the hunt and a sugar high of epic proportions. Baskets of chocolate bunnies, marshmallows, jelly beans, and other assorted confections will be enjoyed in abundance.

We also have a special guest joining the event.... the Eastern Bunny! (We tried to book Santa but a reindeer cull pretty much wiped out his transportation system). The Eastern Bunny will host the “chick chase” and whoever catches the golden chick will enjoy an all expense paid vacation to the Dead Sea!

We may have a Ham hocks dinner but some of the brothers are still having trouble with that whole “slay and eat blanket” story so we will see.

In the closing ceremony James will deliver a solo doxology ( that boy can sing! The best baritone west of the Jordan!) Don’t miss it!

This production will be second to none, A splendid time is guaranteed for all, and of course Henry the Horse dances the waltz!”

Kind of knocks the wind out of your argument wouldn’t you agree?
Drake

[Evangelical]

Oh..ha ha..you proved me wrong indeed. Now we know what the disciples were doing during the 3 days. They were hunting for easter eggs. Chocolate consumption was the best way for them to deal with the loss of Christ.

[Drake]

Ohio>”One of LSM's seven annual "Feasts" occurs on Chinese New Year, a pagan atheistic, ancient celebration of serpents, dragons, and moonpies.

Since WL was the MOTA, only he gets to decide which holidays will get "recovered."

Ohio,

You know this but for the sake of the passerby we will set the record straight.

The seven annual feasts are timed so that people can attend meetings during what would normally be a holiday. The Winter training is during Christmas, the summer training is during the 4th of July, there is Memorial Day, Thanksgiving, etc. and Chinese New Year.

There is no “recovery” of Christmas as there is no “recovery” of Chinese New Year in those feasts. The only recovery is people’s time from engaging in something pagan or secular to something godly. I don’t recall seeing the dragon dance performed in Taipai last month in that conference. If you did, then show us!

Drake

[Ohio]

Ohio, You know this but for the sake of the passerby we will set the record straight.

The seven annual feasts are timed so that people can attend meetings during what would normally be a holiday. The Winter training is during Christmas, the summer training is during the 4th of July, there is Memorial Day, Thanksgiving, etc. and Chinese New Year.

There is no “recovery” of Christmas as there is no “recovery” of Chinese New Year in those feasts. The only recovery is people’s time from engaging in something pagan or secular to something godly. I don’t recall seeing the dragon dance performed in Taipai last month in that conference. If you did, then show us!

Drake
That's not accurate. I'm just holding you to the same standard as the rest of Christianity. You love to have it both ways -- unlimited excuses for the Recovery, and zero tolerance for the rest of the body of Christ.

I was active in the LC's for 30 years. You can deceive the casual reader but not me.

[Drake]

That's not accurate. I'm just holding you to the same standard as the rest of Christianity. You love to have it both ways -- unlimited excuses for the Recovery, and zero tolerance for the rest of the body of Christ.

I was active in the LC's for 30 years. You can deceive the casual reader but not me.

Well then brother. Don’t delay! Prove your point. Make your case.

Show us the dancing dragons at the February conference in Taipei.

Evidence that they were seen eating pot stickers will not be sufficient proof. :rolleyes:

Drake

[awareness]

Obviously Lee was right on some of his Biblical interpretations, and wrong on so many other others. That being said... Lee's biggest injustice to his followers, in my opinion, is his denial of Christmas and Easter. These holidays are beautiful and are Christianity at their best. Celebrating the Lord's birth. Remembering his suffering and celebrating his resurrection.

Truly sad and depressing to think of all the misled Christians in the Lords Recovery who don't get to partake in these beautiful times of the year.
I loved it. I was free from all the commercialism surrounding those holidays. Not to mention Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. :eek:

[Ohio]

Well then brother. Don’t delay! Prove your point. Make your case.

Show us the dancing dragons at the February conference in Taipei.

Evidence that they were seen eating pot stickers will not be sufficient proof. :rolleyes:

Drake
There you go again, twisting the narrative to accuse and excuse.

My point is simple and has always been the same. Why does LSM condemn the entire body of Christ for doing what it does. Why does LSM condemn those in the body of Christ for preaching the gospel, remembering the Lord, and celebrating His birth (Christmas) and His death and resurrection (Good Friday and Easter) because of pagan origins, when LSM does the same and uses the Chinese New Year, rife with pagan origins, to gather together, remember the Lord, and preach the gospel?

You love to have things both ways. But Paul judges the self-righteous in Romans 2.1-3. You judge others for practicing the same things, only changing the details, washing your hands, and claiming to be righteous. Does not Paul also say in Romans 14.9, "He who celebrates a day, celebrates it to the Lord."

[awareness]

Well then brother. Don’t delay! Prove your point. Make your case.

Show us the dancing dragons at the February conference in Taipei.

Evidence that they were seen eating pot stickers will not be sufficient proof. :rolleyes:

Drake
Yeah. Somebody? I want to see the dancing dragons. Other than the one in Rev. 12.

I think Paul would say we can celebrate holidays or not. As we wish. No big deal either way.

But if you are in a group that castigates you for doing either, then you better check and see if you are in a cult.

[Drake]

There you go again, twisting the narrative to accuse and excuse.

My point is simple and has always been the same. Why does LSM condemn the entire body of Christ for doing what it does. Why does LSM condemn those in the body of Christ for preaching the gospel, remembering the Lord, and celebrating His birth (Christmas) and His death and resurrection (Good Friday and Easter) because of pagan origins, when LSM does the same and uses the Chinese New Year, rife with pagan origins, to gather together, remember the Lord, and preach the gospel?

You love to have things both ways. But Paul judges the self-righteous in Romans 2.1-3. You judge others for practicing the same things, only changing the details, washing your hands, and claiming to be righteous. Does not Paul also say in Romans 14.9, "He who celebrates a day, celebrates it to the Lord."

Whoa. Hold on there big fella.

Please show us where LSM conference celebrates the dancing dragon of the Chinese New Year. Then you will have a point.

Christians, and presumably you, actually perform the ritualistic pagan practices of Christmas and Easter. The celebration of Ishtar as a Christian holiday should rattle you to your bones. You don’t just come together during that time as a matter of convenience to read, study, and hear messages from the Word of God....you actually commemorate by using the same pagan practices under different names.

Now, for anyone out there that thinks I am being to harsh I will add this. Though I don’t celebrate these pagan holidays masquerading under the guise of Christian names and banners I also do not make an issue for anyone that chooses to. I see it for what it is but others don’t so I leave it to the Lord to shed His light on them. The reason, and the ONLY reason, I am taking a hard stand in this thread is because Ohio is polarizing the argument, drawing a false equivalence, and fabricating the nature and character of the seven gatherings or conferences hosted by Living Stream Ministry. Those gatherings have zero to do with legitimizing the holiday itself or what it represents as Ohio is attempting to do.

Drake

[Drake]

Yeah. Somebody? I want to see the dancing dragons. Other than the one in Rev. 12.
I think Paul would say we can celebrate holidays or not. As we wish. No big deal either way.
But if you are in a group that castigates you for doing either, then you better check and see if you are in a cult.

Awareness, Don’t hold your breath waiting for those videos of the dancing dragon at the Taipei conference. Fake news from Ohio.

But I have to say that for the first year after coming into the Lords Recovery I still celebrated Christmas and Easter.... but it just kind of dropped off as a practice and no one condemned me for observing the holiday. There were some in my locality that had a Christmas tree set up but it did not come between us or anyone else.

Drake

[awareness]

Awareness, Don’t hold your breath waiting for those videos of the dancing dragon at the Taipei conference. Fake news from Ohio.

But I have to say that for the first year after coming into the Lords Recovery I still celebrated Christmas and Easter.... but it just kind of dropped off as a practice and no one condemned me for observing the holiday. There were some in my locality that had a Christmas tree set up but it did not come between us or anyone else.

Drake
And that's the way it should be. Gung-ho brothers and sisters might disagree. That's their right too. But a group rule on the holidays is going too far.

A few years back I heard a Church of Christ preacher admit in his Christmas sermon that the holiday was originally pagan. But then he added: but today we celebrate the birth of Jesus.

[Evangelical]

There you go again, twisting the narrative to accuse and excuse.

My point is simple and has always been the same. Why does LSM condemn the entire body of Christ for doing what it does. Why does LSM condemn those in the body of Christ for preaching the gospel, remembering the Lord, and celebrating His birth (Christmas) and His death and resurrection (Good Friday and Easter) because of pagan origins, when LSM does the same and uses the Chinese New Year, rife with pagan origins, to gather together, remember the Lord, and preach the gospel?

You love to have things both ways. But Paul judges the self-righteous in Romans 2.1-3. You judge others for practicing the same things, only changing the details, washing your hands, and claiming to be righteous. Does not Paul also say in Romans 14.9, "He who celebrates a day, celebrates it to the Lord."


Christianity relabels pagan symbols to "make them Christian". A chocolate cross I can understand but a chocolate egg from a rabbit? Then there is the strange coincidence between Christs resurrection and the moon cycles.

[awareness]

Christianity relabels pagan symbols to "make them Christian". A chocolate cross I can understand but a chocolate egg from a rabbit? Then there is the strange coincidence between Christs resurrection and the moon cycles.
Save the earth. It's the only planet with chocolate. I'll take chocolate in any shape.

The bunny and the egg are funny. Peter Cottontail is cute. He's hopping down the bunny trail ... as we speak.

Of course they are just symbols of the new and fresh fecundity of Spring. Nature is gettin' busy out there.

And the moon cycles? I guess Jesus had to wait til the first Sunday, after the first full moon, after the spring equinox, to rise from the dead.

When you get down to it, it's all pretty funny, and crazy. We've got birth and death date's for all kinds of people back then. But the most important person in the world, so claimed, nada. We're left guessing.

So Constantine stepped up. He was a converted sun god worshiper, allegedly. True or not, the proof is in the pudding. He made the birth of Christ when the sun is "born again" on the 25th of Dec. (that was when the days began to get longer back then, like our 21st today).

And well okay. While we're at it. Let's make the death and resurrection of Jesus based upon the sun, and the moon. Seems like something a sun god worshiper would do.

But if we puritans reject those pagan holidays, then we're gonna have ta reject the days of the week too. They were also determined by Constantine. Like, "Sun"day, and, "Moon"day, and, "Saturn"day, so forth and so on ; with Norse embellishments along the way ; Woden's day, for Wednesday, and Frigg's day - Venus - for Friday. And of course, "Thors"day ; all Norse gods.

All that said, Happy Easter one and all, even if you ignore it, and perchance enjoy a quiet day just 'Practicing the Presence.'

Like me.

[JJ]

Obviously Lee was right on some of his Biblical interpretations, and wrong on so many other others. That being said... Lee's biggest injustice to his followers, in my opinion, is his denial of Christmas and Easter. These holidays are beautiful and are Christianity at their best. Celebrating the Lord's birth. Remembering his suffering and celebrating his resurrection.

Truly sad and depressing to think of all the misled Christians in the Lords Recovery who don't get to partake in these beautiful times of the year.

WL: "Another example is Christmas. Christmas is a blasphemy to Christ, and no Christian with a pure conscience should have anything to do with it. As the book, The Two Babylons, proves, Christmas originated from European paganism. Centuries before the Christian era, on December 25 the European pagans celebrated the birthday of the sun. When Constantine embraced Christianity, he encouraged the Roman citizens to become Christians, and he even rewarded many thousands for being baptized. Thousands who knew nothing of Christ were baptized and came into Christendom, bringing their pagan customs with them. Later, the name of Christ was attached to the birth of the sun god celebrated on December 25. In principle, the celebration of Easter is the same. Although some Christians in Orange County condemn us as heretical, they themselves still practice the pagan festival of Christmas. To be sure, during the three and a half years of the great tribulation all Christians will abandon such things as Christmas, Easter, the worship of Mary, and all paganism. ...I strongly believe that the Lord is using His recovery to produce the living firstfruit. This is the first function of the Lord’s recovery. After the rapture of the firstfruit, the local churches will be used by the Lord to help all the remaining Christians. This will be the second function of the recovery. During the great tribulation, Christians will have a proper place to which they can go. Christmas, Easter, and all the traditional things of Christianity will be discarded."

I was surprised when I read Eusebius’ church history (written in the 4th Century) that he reported Christians celebrating Easter over 100 years before Constantine who arose to power during his day). His accounts of Easter celebrations record that Christians realized and appreciated what a big deal it is that Jesus not only died for us, but also rose from the dead to bring us out of the grave with Him.

I understand the points on both sides of this argument, but dividing over holidays misses the point of it all... Jesus!

Is Christ divided?

Let’s celebrate the resurrected Christ, our Lord tomorrow whether we agree with Easter or not. He lives, so we are alive in Him!

Praise him. He is victor over death and the grave!

[TLFisher]

The seven annual feasts are timed so that people can attend meetings during what would normally be a holiday. The Winter training is during Christmas, the summer training is during the 4th of July, there is Memorial Day, Thanksgiving, etc. and Chinese New Year.

Replace Chinese New Year with Labor Day and you've made a good case for 7 feasts coinciding with holidays. Only validity I see Chinese New Year being a holiday is if it fell on Presidents Day.

[Drake]

Replace Chinese New Year with Labor Day and you've made a good case for 7 feasts coinciding with holidays. Only validity I see Chinese New Year being a holiday is if it fell on Presidents Day.

Why replace?

[TLFisher]

Labor Day is a holiday. Chinese New Year is not.

[Drake]

Labor Day is a holiday. Chinese New Year is not.

Of course it is!