Reconciliation in the Local Churches?

[Terry]

I know we've often heard how the Church life in the local churches was somehow the Lord's best. How can we as Christians claim to be in the New Testament Ministry, Minstry of the Age, etc when there is no urgency, no desire, and very little love for reconciliation among the brothers and sisters?
I read an article tonight concerning Microsoft's Bill Gates and the late Steve Jobs of Apple. These two men were rivals and at times friends, but at the end their relationship was reconciled.

"Gates also reflected on the passing of Steve Jobs. Weeks before the Apple founder died, Gates paid an unannounced visit to the home of his sometime friend and longtime rival.

"He and I always enjoyed talking. He would throw some things out, you know, some stimulating things. We'd talk about the other companies that have come along. We talked about our families and how lucky we'd both been in terms of the women we married. It was great relaxed conversation."

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/newsmakers/bill-gates-using-money-save-lives-fix-u-235256838.html

God knows if these two men had a relationship with Him. If you speculate they don't know the Lord, what does it say when unbelievers have a better grasp what reconciliation means that Christians should know and should practice? Going as far back as the so-called "Sister's Rebellion", these brothers and sisters aren't getting any younger. Most of these dear brothers and sisters are into their 70's and 80's. How much time is left? How long are brothers and sisters going to cling onto perceived wrongdoings that happened decades ago and not sense the urgency to be reconciled to one another?

[Nell]

I know we've often heard how the Church life in the local churches was somehow the Lord's best. How can we as Christians claim to be in the New Testament Ministry, Minstry of the Age, etc when there is no urgency, no desire, and very little love for reconciliation among the brothers and sisters?
...
How long are brothers and sisters going to cling onto perceived wrongdoings that happened decades ago and not sense the urgency to be reconciled to one another?

Just so it gets said, TF, we as Christians have no business claiming to be anything, other than a child of the King. As long as "we" think more highly of ourselves than we ought, we will continue to look down on others with condescension, antagonism, judgmental disdain and other devilish attitudes, and we will remain steeped in the sin of unforgiveness and disobedience.

I have recently come to believe that the biggest problem among Christians today is that they/we no longer believe the Bible, we no longer fear God, and we believe that the "rules have changed".

People do not reconcile, because they are disobedient. They believe that Matt. 18 doesn't apply to them, and they have little or no fear that they will be held accountable for their sin.

This year I was in a conversation among a group of ten or so former LC members. The conversation was quite heated at times because the topic was about receiving a brother who had been caught in blatant, gross sin. The topic of "divorce" came up, because that was also an issue.

A sister eventually stated loudly, with passion, "well, everybody gets divorced"!

I guess that statement rocked my world. In her mind divorce is OK now, because "everybody does it". There are a lot of terribly sad things that may happen that lead to divorce, some beyond your control. But when Christians use the "everybody does it" excuse, the fear of God is not there, the authority of His word is not respected or believed, and obedience is irrelevant.

Well, TF, probably not the answer you were expecting.

Nell

[Terry]

The topic of "divorce" came up, because that was also an issue.

A sister eventually stated loudly, with passion, "well, everybody gets divorced"!

I guess that statement rocked my world. In her mind divorce is OK now, because "everybody does it". There are a lot of terribly sad things that may happen that lead to divorce, some beyond your control. But when Christians use the "everybody does it" excuse, the fear of God is not there, the authority of His word is not respected or believed, and obedience is irrelevant.

Well, TF, probably not the answer you were expecting.

Nell, when one gets into the matter of divorce I have two questions do pose:
1. Do you consider marriage a contract or a covenant?
2. Apart from adultery, should one get divorced do you still treat marriage as a covenant and never remarry?


Right it wasn't the answer I was expecting, but a response I value. I suppose when it comes to reconciliation between believers, the question to be asked, where is your conscience? Do you have love the other party?

[Ohio]

I know we've often heard how the Church life in the local churches was somehow the Lord's best. How can we as Christians claim to be in the New Testament Ministry, Minstry of the Age, etc when there is no urgency, no desire, and very little love for reconciliation among the brothers and sisters?
I read an article tonight concerning Microsoft's Bill Gates and the late Steve Jobs of Apple. These two men were rivals and at times friends, but at the end their relationship was reconciled.

"Gates also reflected on the passing of Steve Jobs. Weeks before the Apple founder died, Gates paid an unannounced visit to the home of his sometime friend and longtime rival.

"He and I always enjoyed talking. He would throw some things out, you know, some stimulating things. We'd talk about the other companies that have come along. We talked about our families and how lucky we'd both been in terms of the women we married. It was great relaxed conversation."

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/newsmakers/bill-gates-using-money-save-lives-fix-u-235256838.html

God knows if these two men had a relationship with Him. If you speculate they don't know the Lord, what does it say when unbelievers have a better grasp what reconciliation means that Christians should know and should practice? Going as far back as the so-called "Sister's Rebellion", these brothers and sisters aren't getting any younger. Most of these dear brothers and sisters are into their 70's and 80's. How much time is left? How long are brothers and sisters going to cling onto perceived wrongdoings that happened decades ago and not sense the urgency to be reconciled to one another?

These two would never have reconciled if Microsoft had quarantined Jobs and Apple for violating their "one publication policy" concerning software.

Think about how much "confusion" this has caused "the body" of computer users. Back in those early days, using a "mouse" to double-click icons was worst than playing electric guitars and drums. Remembering the "good old days" of MS-DOS is like reminiscing about Elden Hall.

[Nell]

Nell, when one gets into the matter of divorce I have two questions do pose:
1. Do you consider marriage a contract or a covenant?
2. Apart from adultery, should one get divorced do you still treat marriage as a covenant and never remarry?


Right it wasn't the answer I was expecting, but a response I value. I suppose when it comes to reconciliation between believers, the question to be asked, where is your conscience? Do you have love the other party?

1. I consider marriage to be exactly what the Bible says it is.
2. Whatever you do, must be done in obedience to your Father.

Sorry. There is no blanket answer to these kinds of questions. I can't tell you how to live your life. If I try...don't listen to me!

Fear God. Obey His commands. Seek His counsel. Confess your sins. Whatever is of God will be clean. He has not changed.

Nell

[Terry]

1. I consider marriage to be exactly what the Bible says it is.
2. Whatever you do, must be done in obedience to your Father.

I am clear concerning marriage. My question was raised to whomever the reader might be.

[Nell]

I am clear concerning marriage. My question was raised to whomever the reader might be.

Sorry TF, I didn't mean to lecture you.

I just think the words need to be said. I'm guilty of searching for ways to circumvent obedience to God's word, in favor of "figuring out" a way that "seems right" or that "leans toward my own understanding". Or worse, I didn't want someone to think poorly of me, so I made a choice to minimize God and his word, thereby excusing my own selfishly motivated wilful disobedience.

There are questions we don't have to ask when the clear answer is in the Bible. I also remember asking my mother questions, and often she would say "let your conscience be your guide" I hated that! :)

Nell

[Terry]

There are questions we don't have to ask when the clear answer is in the Bible.
Yes and it would also imply reading the Bible.

[Paul Cox]

Someone once was a witness to a heated discussion between Witness Lee and a brother who disagreed with him - no doubt, a brother who was eventually "quarantined." Both were reported to have made the following statement concerning their respective positions: "I can take that to the throne."

So you see, the problem with the LSM brothers, and frankly, with some who splintered off from LSM, is that they know very little of the Throne. Otherwise, they could never make such an audacious claim. The throne eventually will bring all of us to our knees, with nary a thought of raising one eye to make a point. Oh, that we would let the Throne do it's work while we are still on this side.

P.C.

[aron]

...Witness Lee and a brother who disagreed with him ... were reported to have made the following statement concerning their respective positions: "I can take that to the throne."

...they know very little of the Throne. Otherwise, they could never make such an audacious claim. The throne eventually will bring all of us to our knees...

This reminds me of Matthew chapter 5: "leave your gift at the altar (Throne) and go and be reconciled with your brother. Then, when you have reconciled, you can come and offer your gift."

My experience is that we are more prone to remember and apply "...let him be to you like the Gentile" in Matthew chapter 18, than we are to remember "...first be reconciled with your brother in "Matthew chapter 5.

And I suspect we at least subconsciously place stipulations upon any potential reconciliation such that "our brother" needs to confess that his are the "wrongs" and ours the "rights" before the healing can begin, and we agree to restore him from "among the Gentiles". The idea that perhaps we ourselves might be also partly in error is less dwelt upon than the immutable fixation on the error(s) of the other party. Jesus was surely right when He noted that we can see the splinter in the other's eye before we can see the beam in our own.

A subset of this idea is that the only theological & practical convictions we should carry "to the Throne" are those agreed upon by all of the common faith. It is not called the common faith for nothing (e.g. see Jude v.3). Any teachings, high peak or otherwise, which lead to unresolveable disputations must be let go before the Throne, in order to hold onto our brothers. Our brothers and sisters should be more dear to us than our theology, teachings, and practices.